12-10-13 05:03 PM
34 12
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  1. rim_investor's Avatar
    Air Canada has made little profit , if any, over the last several years. They have high debt and large pension obligations. Yet their stock price has gone 70 cents to $6 in 18 months. That's what positive market sentiment can do. I do realize AC has been having good results but 18 months ago, bankruptcy was a genuine risk.

    Posted via my AWESOME Z10 on CB10
    CDM76 likes this.
    11-08-13 04:36 PM
  2. Double_J75's Avatar
    Anything is possible.

    Posted via CB10
    11-08-13 04:49 PM
  3. JeepBB's Avatar
    Air Canada has made little profit , if any, over the last several years. They have high debt and large pension obligations. Yet their stock price has gone 70 cents to $6 in 18 months. That's what positive market sentiment can do. I do realize AC has been having good results but 18 months ago, bankruptcy was a genuine risk.

    Posted via my AWESOME Z10 on CB10
    A neat twist on the "If Apple can recover, then BB's come back is practically a given" posts. Well Done!

    As I'm sure you realise, the "positive market sentiment" has everything to do with the good results... and the parallels with BB just aren't there.

    Come 20th December, I'm sure BB's Earnings Report will be make for truly dreadful reading. The results (measured by profit, BB7/BB10 sales, market share, or any metric you want really) will all continue to show that BB is in a hole they don't seem to know how to climb out of... and no "positive market sentiment" will result.
    11-08-13 04:51 PM
  4. JeepBB's Avatar
    Anything is possible.
    That's a true statement.

    However, as my old Maths teacher drummed into me, not all possible outcomes are equally probable.
    techvisor and app_Developer like this.
    11-08-13 04:55 PM
  5. app_Developer's Avatar
    Air Canada has made little profit , if any, over the last several years. They have high debt and large pension obligations. Yet their stock price has gone 70 cents to $6 in 18 months. That's what positive market sentiment can do. I do realize AC has been having good results but 18 months ago, bankruptcy was a genuine risk.
    I think you've said it yourself, if a company starts posting good results, then its value starts to climb.

    So we'll see if BlackBerry can start posting good results. That may take some time. I can't see how that would be possible in the next year.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    11-08-13 05:01 PM
  6. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    There's seems to be a feeling to the OP's post that a stock gaining 800% in 18 months is a common occurrence. It's not. It's pretty friggin rare. It means the company exceeded expectations by a wide margin. By the same token, a company shedding over 90% of it's market cap is also an exceedingly rare occurrence, and signifies the company fell well short of expectations by a WIDE margin.
    JeepBB likes this.
    11-08-13 07:12 PM
  7. AfterHoursWelds's Avatar
    Sold my bits of Air Canada shares as I viewed them as too crazy to own...

    I'm thinking if BlackBerry can come down 200% in a year why can't Air Canada?

    Posted via CB10
    anon1727506 and CDM76 like this.
    11-08-13 07:52 PM
  8. berklon's Avatar
    You're comparing apples and oranges though.

    Air Canada is one of the few major airlines in Canada. When people need to fly, they don't have a bevy of options to choose from. There's also not much difference between one airline and another - it really all comes down to price most of the time. So while Air Canada has financial problems - things can be worked on without the fear of their customer base being cut in half due to the competition.

    It's a different story with Blackberry. They have huge financial problems and are losing customers at an alarming rate because consumers have a wide array of options based on features and price - and the difference in between products is extensive.
    Etios, techvisor and JeepBB like this.
    11-08-13 07:55 PM
  9. anon1727506's Avatar
    BlackBerry is going to spend $2 Billion on marketing. They are going to release BB10.8 in three months. The Z100 beats the Galaxy5 in specs and price. All Apps are native in BlackBerry World.

    That's all it would take.... so sure it is possible.

    Posted via CB10
    11-08-13 08:27 PM
  10. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
    Sold my bits of Air Canada shares as I viewed them as too crazy to own...

    I'm thinking if BlackBerry can come down 200% in a year why can't Air Canada?

    Posted via CB10
    Down 200%? Interesting.
    bspence87 likes this.
    11-08-13 10:08 PM
  11. AfterHoursWelds's Avatar
    Down 200%? Interesting.
    I see what you did there, you get my point though...

    Posted via CB10
    11-08-13 10:42 PM
  12. donmateo's Avatar
    On a surface level, it is completely possible. Digging deeper, it is possible, but it will take awhile.

    Anyone expecting astonishingly positive results in the next few quarters is living in a fool's paradise. Ignorance is bliss to some, however, for us more business savvy folks, expect a turnaround in several quarters with light to moderate upticks in the latter ones.
    11-08-13 11:24 PM
  13. lmcjipo's Avatar
    I didn't really keep track of Air Canada stock but at the time that they were going bankrupt, I believe that all those shares became almost worthless and new shares were issued so people with the old shares basically got next to nothing for them.
    11-08-13 11:31 PM
  14. Brandon Orr's Avatar
    Maybe because Air Canada is subsidized by the canadian government as the national air carrier,, and really only has one major competition, not to mention laws limiting the amount of trips foreign carriers can make to and from Canada (see Emirate airline dispute with the canadian government).
    CDM76 likes this.
    11-09-13 10:54 AM
  15. aniym's Avatar
    You are comparing stock movements of companies in 2 different industries with wildly different fundamentals and business environments? Blackberry has nothing even close to the market share that Air Canada has.

    Surely you knew this before you decided to post?
    11-09-13 11:48 AM
  16. CDM76's Avatar
    A neat twist on the "If Apple can recover, then BB's come back is practically a given" posts. Well Done!

    As I'm sure you realise, the "positive market sentiment" has everything to do with the good results... and the parallels with BB just aren't there.

    Come 20th December, I'm sure BB's Earnings Report will be make for truly dreadful reading. The results (measured by profit, BB7/BB10 sales, market share, or any metric you want really) will all continue to show that BB is in a hole they don't seem to know how to climb out of... and no "positive market sentiment" will result.
    Which is EXACTLY why should have gone private. Then wouldn't need announce sales etc. Just new devices etc and create positive spin. Then once doing better issue ipo again......or not. lol

    Posted via CB10
    11-09-13 11:52 AM
  17. BoldPreza's Avatar
    Happened to ford as well. One year after it hit it's lowest that stock was worth about ten times it's low.

    Posted via CB10
    11-09-13 12:33 PM
  18. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Happened to ford as well. One year after it hit it's lowest that stock was worth about ten times it's low.

    Posted via CB10
    Why stop there? 10 years ago AAPL was at $10 a share.
    11-09-13 07:07 PM
  19. Nindia's Avatar
    Air Canada and West Jet have a monopoly in Canada. That's the only reason Air Canada wasn't bankrupt 10 years ago. If the government would allow competition, we wouldn't be paying out the *** to fly from Toronto to Vancouver, when flying from Seattle to New York (longer distance) is half the price.

    Even in Europe you can travel just about anywhere within the continent for one to two hundred euros.
    11-10-13 06:57 PM
  20. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I'm sorry guys, but comparing company's like this is asinine. It just doesn't compute. Besides, Air Canada is an iconic beloved Canadian company. I just don't see the comparison.
    11-13-13 12:56 AM
  21. heymaggie's Avatar
    My experience is that when people bring out the "Anything can happen" statement, that means you're hosed because they can't think of anything else to say that is positive.
    kevinnugent and JeepBB like this.
    12-02-13 06:49 PM
  22. aniym's Avatar
    My experience is that when people bring out the "Anything can happen" statement, that means you're hosed because they can't think of anything else to say that is positive.
    You got that right...there is a comment in the "Blackberry sales drop to near zero in US, China, Spain.." where someone actually posted "Nobody criticized Mercedes for low market share". Doesn't get much more desperate than that.
    12-02-13 08:54 PM
  23. FSeverino's Avatar
    You got that right...there is a comment in the "Blackberry sales drop to near zero in US, China, Spain.." where someone actually posted "Nobody criticized Mercedes for low market share". Doesn't get much more desperate than that.

    *this is a general comment based on similar responses to the one above, not directed at any single person

    Or... that's the truth and someone is pointing out a fact.

    For example...

    Tesla stocks plummet after a car catches fire after a collision in which the driver safely exited the car because they were promoted to by the safety system. Tesla is blamed and not the driver.

    But

    Paul walker dies in a car fire and... well, the driver was speeding so the car isn't to blame.

    The media spins things the way it wants, and people eat it up. BlackBerry is in huge trouble, just like apple was, just like thousands of other companies are. Some will make it, others won't.

    I hope BlackBerry makes it, but who knows. However, saying that making comparisons is wrong is not fair. The comparisons may not be identical, nothing ever is, but there are lessons to learn from everything and if one company can come back then that means it is possible. It doesnt mean BlackBerry will do it, but mentioning that it is possible shouldn't be frowned on. The same goes with mentioning other companies hardships... if BlackBerry is getting reemed for low sales then other companies should as well, and bringing up a lack of similar treatments is, in fact, a very valid point (showing the incredibly negative tone the media has taken towards BlackBerry)

    ****ting on BlackBerry is the cool thing to do, if you want to be cool and follow along and ignore obvious correlations and valid opinions that's fine... that's what the Internet is for. But it doesn't mean you are any more right then the people you are calling out


    Posted via CB10
    CDM76 likes this.
    12-03-13 01:20 AM
  24. anon1727506's Avatar
    *this is a general comment based on similar responses to the one above, not directed at any single person

    Or... that's the truth and someone is pointing out a fact.

    For example...

    Tesla stocks plummet after a car catches fire after a collision in which the driver safely exited the car because they were promoted to by the safety system. Tesla is blamed and not the driver.

    But

    Paul walker dies in a car fire and... well, the driver was speeding so the car isn't to blame.

    The media spins things the way it wants, and people eat it up. BlackBerry is in huge trouble, just like apple was, just like thousands of other companies are. Some will make it, others won't.

    I hope BlackBerry makes it, but who knows. However, saying that making comparisons is wrong is not fair. The comparisons may not be identical, nothing ever is, but there are lessons to learn from everything and if one company can come back then that means it is possible. It doesnt mean BlackBerry will do it, but mentioning that it is possible shouldn't be frowned on. The same goes with mentioning other companies hardships... if BlackBerry is getting reemed for low sales then other companies should as well, and bringing up a lack of similar treatments is, in fact, a very valid point (showing the incredibly negative tone the media has taken towards BlackBerry)

    ****ting on BlackBerry is the cool thing to do, if you want to be cool and follow along and ignore obvious correlations and valid opinions that's fine... that's what the Internet is for. But it doesn't mean you are any more right then the people you are calling out


    Posted via CB10
    Hope you feel better.

    But there is no correlation between BlackBerry and Air Canada, different industries, different markets, different corporate structures.

    And blaming the media for BlackBerry's problems and them not jumping on other companies with low sales like Mercedes or Tesla.... ???? Again different markets - both are showing a growth year over year. Neither has a big part of the overall market - but they are BIG in their niche and are growing. While many hope that given the failure in the consumer market that BlackBerry can make the enterprise/government business a niche for them, there is no real indicator that is even going to be possible. There are over thirty MDM software companies out there. The US DOD is now using other MDM platforms as well as other hardware.

    The media didn't force BlackBerry to ignore iOS and Android, the media didn't cause BlackBerry to take three years to develop BB10, the media didn't advise BlackBerry to treat the Z10 as a highend device and to price it that way, the media didn't release an OS that was missing a LOT of basic feature that smartphone users expect, the media didn't cause random reboots and a buggy user experience, the media wasn't the ones running around telling everyone that records were being broken, the media didn't put the Company up for sale and throw doubt on the future of all products. Credit has to be given where credit is due. Sure the media is more than ready to report the demise of BlackBerry, and every misstep they make.
    JeepBB, aniym and kevinnugent like this.
    12-03-13 08:35 AM
  25. FSeverino's Avatar
    Hope you feel better.

    But there is no correlation between BlackBerry and Air Canada, different industries, different markets, different corporate structures.

    And blaming the media for BlackBerry's problems and them not jumping on other companies with low sales like Mercedes or Tesla.... ???? Again different markets - both are showing a growth year over year. Neither has a big part of the overall market - but they are BIG in their niche and are growing. While many hope that given the failure in the consumer market that BlackBerry can make the enterprise/government business a niche for them, there is no real indicator that is even going to be possible. There are over thirty MDM software companies out there. The US DOD is now using other MDM platforms as well as other hardware.

    The media didn't force BlackBerry to ignore iOS and Android, the media didn't cause BlackBerry to take three years to develop BB10, the media didn't advise BlackBerry to treat the Z10 as a highend device and to price it that way, the media didn't release an OS that was missing a LOT of basic feature that smartphone users expect, the media didn't cause random reboots and a buggy user experience, the media wasn't the ones running around telling everyone that records were being broken, the media didn't put the Company up for sale and throw doubt on the future of all products. Credit has to be given where credit is due. Sure the media is more than ready to report the demise of BlackBerry, and every misstep they make.
    Again, the correlations don't have to be exact. A struggling company that overcame it's situation... that is a similarity waiting to happen.

    I'm not saying that the media caused BlackBerry s situation, just that it is making it into the story that it chooses to. I've always been critical of bb, read any of my posts. The fact remains that the media chooses certain companies to prop up and others to bash. And, unfortunately, the public just follows suit bc they are too ignorant to think for themselves

    Comparisons can be made, I don't think that they are the right thing to do, but it is a valid way to approach the situation at the start.

    For example, the current BlackBerry board can see what strategies those other companies used... but they MUST adapt the strategy to fit their market and product.

    I agree 100% that you can't say that company A survived because they did X, so BlackBerry should do X in the exact same fashion. But, knowing that X worked now allows BlackBerry to modify and adapt the strategy (if possible) to work for them.

    It is a starting point, and I don't think it should he anything more. Using these comparisons as a crurch WILL Be the end of BlackBerry, I will agree with that and argue in favour of it everyday... but learning from the failures and regrouping success of other companies IS a valid strategy.

    Posted via CB10
    12-03-13 02:40 PM
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