12-23-11 07:44 AM
33 12
tools
  1. larryseltzer's Avatar
    Yesterday Apple was granted a patent (#8,082,523 -sorry I'm not allowed to do links here yet, sheesh!) for the following:

    A portable electronic device displays, on a touch screen display, a user interface for a phone application during a phone call. In response to detecting activation of a menu icon or menu button, the UI for the phone application is replaced with a menu of application icons, while maintaining the phone call. In response to detecting a finger gesture on a non-telephone service application icon, displaying a user interface for the non-telephone service application while continuing to maintain the phone call, the UI for the non-telephone service application including a switch application icon that is not displayed in the UI when there is no ongoing phone call. In response to detecting a finger gesture on the switch application icon, replacing display of the UI for the non-telephone service application with a respective UI for the phone application while continuing to maintain the phone call.
    The patent application date was January 6, 2008.

    I remember the Verizon Blackberry I got in early 2009 could do this. It was CDMA so the apps couldn't access the data network, but my quick read of the patent says nothing about the apps using the network, it's all about the UI of the app.

    I've tried to research history of the BB OS on this and failed. Does anyone know how long it's been in BB?
    12-21-11 01:00 PM
  2. avt123's Avatar
    My 8330 was able to in 2008...

    Apple's new app-switching patent could spell trouble for Android

    This patent is absolutely ridiculous. The patent system needs some serious reform. Apple can now sue EVERYONE because of this patent.
    12-21-11 01:08 PM
  3. larryseltzer's Avatar
    If someone could provide documentation of when BBOS was able to do this I'd be in their debt (not like their's money in it, but I would appreciate it)
    12-21-11 01:20 PM
  4. Rickroller's Avatar
    I've tried to research history of the BB OS on this and failed. Does anyone know how long it's been in BB?
    It wouldn't really matter how long RIM has been doing this if Apple got to the patent first for it.

    My 8330 was able to in 2008...

    Apple's new app-switching patent could spell trouble for Android

    This patent is absolutely ridiculous. The patent system needs some serious reform. Apple can now sue EVERYONE because of this patent.
    Agreed. Apple should just concentrate on innovating rather than courtroom drama. Just one more reason for me to have a hate on for them I guess..
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    12-21-11 01:27 PM
  5. larryseltzer's Avatar
    It wouldn't really matter how long RIM has been doing this if Apple got to the patent first for it.
    That's not completely true, it would be prior art and a basis for challenging the patent. It would also be a good reason for Apple not to exercise the patent and for competitors not to worry about it.

    I have to agree, this is one of the more bull**** patents I've seen
    12-21-11 01:32 PM
  6. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Its been quite a while, before the 8800 series came out i believe. 6xxx series probably. Remember BlackBerry has been around for more than a decade. This patent wont stand up if RIM challenges it. Heck, even HP could challenge it since they own the pattents that PALM had (i believe).
    Last edited by Sith_Apprentice; 12-21-11 at 01:39 PM.
    12-21-11 01:34 PM
  7. southlander's Avatar
    It wouldn't really matter how long RIM has been doing this if Apple got to the patent first for it.

    Prior art.


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
    12-21-11 01:35 PM
  8. Rickroller's Avatar
    That's not completely true, it would be prior art and a basis for challenging the patent. It would also be a good reason for Apple not to exercise the patent and for competitors not to worry about it.

    I have to agree, this is one of the more bull**** patents I've seen
    I don't know if it would be considered prior art because the Apple patent seems like it applies to touchscreens only (along with finger gestures)..which we know BB's didn't have until the Storm series.

    EDIT: And the prior art argument didn't seem to matter when Apple was granted the "Slide to Lock" patent which had been seen used long before Apple used it.
    Last edited by Rickroller; 12-21-11 at 01:40 PM.
    12-21-11 01:36 PM
  9. avt123's Avatar
    Agreed. Apple should just concentrate on innovating rather than courtroom drama. Just one more reason for me to have a hate on for them I guess..
    It's not like they are the only ones doing it. They are the most vocal about it. Luckily for Apple with the cash they have, they can concentrate on suing for what they think is theirs and innovating.

    They are using the system to their advantage. Smart business. It's BS but it is smart. Blaming Apple is a small part, the bigger blame should be put on the crappy excuse for a patent system. That is what is allowing companies to sue each other for the smallest things.

    Patent reform is needed badly. Until then, it is a warzone for everybody.

    And you sound exactly like Google with that statement lol. They have a point, but they also steal and know they will be sued. They cry but make it harder for themselves. They know the system but don't comply anyways and then just cry that it is bad. They try to act oblivious and that just feeds the patent trolls which is basically giving them a free win. But like I said, I agree with them that these patents stifle innovation.
    12-21-11 01:37 PM
  10. avt123's Avatar
    That's not completely true, it would be prior art and a basis for challenging the patent. It would also be a good reason for Apple not to exercise the patent and for competitors not to worry about it.

    I have to agree, this is one of the more bull**** patents I've seen
    The worst I have seen is the patent for "pressing a button to take a picture" and "after taking a picture having the image appear on the screen" or something like that. I believe it was Kodak? I think they sued almost every smartphone manufacturer.
    12-21-11 01:45 PM
  11. Rickroller's Avatar
    It's not like they are the only ones doing it. They are the most vocal about it. Luckily for Apple with the cash they have, they can concentrate on suing for what they think is theirs and innovating.

    They are using the system to their advantage. Smart business. It's BS but it is smart. Blaming Apple is a small part, the bigger blame should be put on the crappy excuse for a patent system. That is what is allowing companies to sue each other for the smallest things.

    Patent reform is needed badly. Until then, it is a warzone for everybody.

    And you sound exactly like Google with that statement lol. They have a point, but they also steal and know they will be sued. They cry but make it harder for themselves. They know the system but don't comply anyways and then just cry that it is bad. They try to act oblivious and that just feeds the patent trolls which is basically giving them a free win. But like I said, I agree with them that these patents stifle innovation.
    These patent suits are just Apple's way of trying to slow the competition down. Like throwing elbows at your competitors during a track meet. They might not be the only ones doing it, but i'm pretty sure they started it.

    All's it's forcing Android manufacturers to do is re-write some code here and there in order to comply. As for the one they just won against HTC..whoopity do. It only applies to some of the older model phones that are nearing their EOL anyways, and will be fully EOL by the time the patent actually kicks into effect.

    It's just a waste of everyone's time imo..and boils down to SJ's hate on for Android. But meh..i'll let the phone makers worry about it anyways. It's not my fight
    12-21-11 01:49 PM
  12. avt123's Avatar
    These patent suits are just Apple's way of trying to slow the competition down. Like throwing elbows at your competitors during a track meet. They might not be the only ones doing it, but i'm pretty sure they started it.

    All's it's forcing Android manufacturers to do is re-write some code here and there in order to comply. As for the one they just won against HTC..whoopity do. It only applies to some of the older model phones that are nearing their EOL anyways, and will be fully EOL by the time the patent actually kicks into effect.

    It's just a waste of everyone's time imo..and boils down to SJ's hate on for Android. But meh..i'll let the phone makers worry about it anyways. It's not my fight
    Exactly Rick. If you think about it it really is not a big deal and so far it has not hurt the consumers at all. Those devices like you said are EOL. By the time these suits are settled, new things are already out.

    However this patent can hurt current and future devices. Like you said, I'll let them worry about it. I'm sure they will all figure something out.
    12-21-11 01:58 PM
  13. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    The US patent system is now a "First to File" system, not a "First to Invent". So prior art is a non-issue.
    12-21-11 02:07 PM
  14. Crucial_Xtreme's Avatar
    Its been quite a while, before the 8800 series came out i believe. 6xxx series probably. Remember BlackBerry has been around for more than a decade. This patent wont stand up if RIM challenges it. Heck, even HP could challenge it since they own the pattents that PALM had (i believe).
    It won't stand up. I've heard rumblings legal is already checking into it.
    12-21-11 02:15 PM
  15. menaknow's Avatar
    I still remember Windows Mobile OS (not windows Phone 7) doing touch screen where you can click a start button to open a menu.

    That was in 2005. That alone tells me that this can be challenged by most vendors.

    What this hurts is independent developers like me, who want to make applications in our spare time to solve a requirement, but instead has to worry about Lodsys or Apple having a vague patent that says, they own the ability to do something.

    I wonder if someone one day will show up with a patent for taking a dump in the toilet. That person will be full of s***.
    Rickroller likes this.
    12-21-11 02:36 PM
  16. sam_b77's Avatar
    This is anew low for Apple.

    What happened to Apple? I was fond of this company when they were the underdogs and fighting the big bad MS.

    But now they make even MS look like a victim.

    No wonder that their Lion was a step down fron Snow Leopard. They are wasting their energies in slowing the competition rather than outrunning them as they used to.
    12-21-11 03:34 PM
  17. starman011's Avatar
    This patent is very, very specific in how it functions button-wise and there isn't a single device on the market (currently) that's in violation. The patent is exactly how apple handles app switching/multi-tasking during phone calls.
    12-21-11 03:41 PM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    For the record I have an old blackberry 7230 and it multitasks.
    12-21-11 03:47 PM
  19. menaknow's Avatar
    This is anew low for Apple.

    What happened to Apple? I was fond of this company when they were the underdogs and fighting the big bad MS.

    But now they make even MS look like a victim.

    No wonder that their Lion was a step down fron Snow Leopard. They are wasting their energies in slowing the competition rather than outrunning them as they used to.
    The cycle of technology. Every several years to half a decade, each company plays musical chairs...

    Microsoft was the Big Bad company, Apple was the underdog and RIM was in the middle...

    Now Apple is the big bad company, RIM is the underdog and Microsoft is in the middle (and by middle I mean not a king or the underdog).

    It'll change again... And again and again...
    12-21-11 03:48 PM
  20. DannyAves's Avatar
    This article states that RIM had this feature years before.

    DailyTech - Apple Wins In-Call App Switching Patent; USPTO Blatantly Ignores Prior Art
    recompile likes this.
    12-21-11 04:16 PM
  21. soccernamlak's Avatar
    This article states that RIM had this feature years before.

    DailyTech - Apple Wins In-Call App Switching Patent; USPTO Blatantly Ignores Prior Art
    This article needs to re-read the first sentence of the patent:

    "A portable electronic device displays, on a touch screen display, a user interface for a phone application during a phone call..."

    This means that older BlackBerries (which were non-touch) are not in the scope nor are included as prior art.

    In addition: " In response to detecting a finger gesture on a non-telephone service application icon...."

    Based on this inclusion, older WinMo devices would not be in scope nor included as prior art, as it wasn't finger gesture based touch screens, but stylus-based.

    So neither of these prior scenarios would infringe on this patent nor be valid prior art in my opinion.



    In regards to the patent system: you lose your rights to the patent if you don't protect your interests. Combine that with the patent system needing a huge reform (as they allow ridiculous patents for almost anything), you have what you see today. It's in the business' best interest to actively protect their IPs; suing is the way to do this.

    Not saying it's right, but that's how the game is played right now.
    avt123 likes this.
    12-21-11 05:08 PM
  22. anthogag's Avatar
    Apple probably meticulously describes their current UI and puts a patent on it. And everyone else meticulously describes their current UI and also patent it. They're all a little bit different.
    12-21-11 11:59 PM
  23. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    This article needs to re-read the first sentence of the patent:

    "A portable electronic device displays, on a touch screen display, a user interface for a phone application during a phone call..."

    This means that older BlackBerries (which were non-touch) are not in the scope nor are included as prior art.

    In addition: " In response to detecting a finger gesture on a non-telephone service application icon...."

    Based on this inclusion, older WinMo devices would not be in scope nor included as prior art, as it wasn't finger gesture based touch screens, but stylus-based.

    So neither of these prior scenarios would infringe on this patent nor be valid prior art in my opinion.



    In regards to the patent system: you lose your rights to the patent if you don't protect your interests. Combine that with the patent system needing a huge reform (as they allow ridiculous patents for almost anything), you have what you see today. It's in the business' best interest to actively protect their IPs; suing is the way to do this.

    Not saying it's right, but that's how the game is played right now.

    Question,
    Did the storm not demonstrate prior Art?
    12-22-11 05:33 AM
  24. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    The US patent system is now a "First to File" system, not a "First to Invent". So prior art is a non-issue.
    That's the brilliance of the new US patent system

    someone could patents the method for charging a mobile handheld device whilst connected to a voice call transmission, and even though every phone can do it, they have the chance to being granted the patent.

    First to file was basically the patents system form of a Money grab since every major company started racing out to file patents on what seemed to be unpatentable in the past due to prior art
    12-22-11 06:41 AM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    This will not affect BBOS devices in any way, we have the Menu button for that. Maybe BB10 devices, who knows.
    12-22-11 06:59 AM
33 12
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD