1. RyanGermann's Avatar
    With BlackBerry formally stating that they are reducing the number of devices they will have on the market at any time and also that they're turning to the "prosumer" market, is it time for BlackBerry to FINALLY get to work on that full-touch-screen slider device?

    What does the "prosumer" product portfolio look like?

    What I DON'T think a "prosumer" product portfolio looks like:

    - multiple devices with similar form-factors but at different price points: that means no Q5 + Q10: only a high-specs Q10 style device (or they may choose to go low specs high price which would be idiotic)
    - trying to be exactly like Android or iOS devices.

    What I think a "prosumer" product portfolio DOES look like:
    - one decent-specs full touch device: right now, that's the Z10 that will be updated with less frequency than the samsung Galaxy S4s or the iPhone (which are annually but will probably slow down as growth in top-tier smartphone sales slow down)
    - one decent-specs full QWERTY: right now, that's the Q10. It may be a Q5 with the Q10 keyboard, but a device with the Q10 keyboard is the thing
    - one large screen "Phablet": the Z30, probably under a different name. I think the four series should have different names altogether.
    - one portrait slider: the Torch of BB10. Why they haven't released this device yet is puzzling, because it provides the best of both worlds legendary BB keyboard plus a full size touchscreen... if any single device delivers on the idea of "mobile computing" it's a slider.

    I hope that at least ONE of the devices with the keyboard would have hard buttons and a trackpad... I really hope BOTH of them would, because if you're serious about using a BB10 device for lengthy text documents / mobile computing, the trackpad improves the text editing experience substantially.

    Now, as far as price, these devices at lower volumes would either be mid-tier spec wise (which would be a shame, a missed opportunity to really go 'up market' if you ask me) or would be priced in the $800 or even up to $900 range outright purchase.

    They should take a page out of Apple's book and carry two generations of devices: this year's top tier device is next year's low tier device. They build the top tier device in a volume they think will sell over the course of the year, and, when inventories of the top tier devices start to dwindle, THEN they introduce the next round of devices (not necessarily exactly on a schedule, but when "it's time"). Then, lower the price on the current inventory to make it the mid-tier device, still offered for sale, and introduce the top-tier replacement... but not like some "inventory clearance" back-page-of-the-catalogue thing. Side by side with the top tier device, possibly categorized as "leading edge" and "tried and true" or something. Last year's tech is pretty much always what the mid-market devices are built from... the Galaxy SIII is still being actively sold even though the S4 is out there and doing well, but unlike Samsung, BB should present both generations of devices side by side.

    This requires a nimble and efficient design development and testing regimen: just like in retail, controlling inventory is key to profit, and that means instituting absolutely state-of-the-art ERP, if they don't have it already.

    Anyway, I was just thinking how a super-lean BB could bring beloved BB10 devices to market, be profitable, maintain their niche, and Keep Moving. We all love BB and get that BB devices don't have the same broad appeal as Android and iPhone full-touch-slab devices... so I remain puzzled why trying to compete directly with a full-touch-slab has been their strategy, when device differentiation (as demonstrated by the Galaxy Note series in particular) is how BB could be putting itself above the "full-touch-slab" fray, when it's clear that BB's customers already Think Different.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 09-23-13 at 01:40 PM.
    09-23-13 12:16 PM
  2. imaaia's Avatar
    Dude, totally agree with the whole article here, thumbs up +1

    Posted via CB10
    Dude_9, Doggerz, iamagod and 1 others like this.
    09-23-13 12:39 PM
  3. Poirots Progeny's Avatar
    I would love a slider!

    Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10
    Dude_9 and Doggerz like this.
    09-23-13 02:17 PM
  4. anon1727506's Avatar
    I think any talk of future devices is a fantasy at this point. I think the Z30 is the last device we are going to see... and most likly that was only because they had started production in order to build up inventory for a later launch date. But with the Buyout they figured they better start selling some of them ASAP!

    If FairFax keeps hardware going.... and I really doubt that they do. The are going to take some time off to fix some things and the come back with re-launch. All the double speak about prosumer that BB putout at the preliminary ER was just a smoke screen.
    09-23-13 02:44 PM
  5. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I think any talk of future devices is a fantasy at this point. I think the Z30 is the last device we are going to see...
    I believe the releases from Fairfax and BlackBerry both indicate that they intend to keep their handset hardware portfolio. They need to do a lot better job with inventory management and not be afraid to sell devices for a profit (i.e. not trying to hit arbitrary price points, but sell their unique offerings at prices commensurate with the potential market and cost of manufacturing + profit). Selling millions of devices at a profit in conjunction with their MDM software business and potential monetization of BBM all are realistic in my opinion: no not 9 million devices in one weekend, but 9 million devices a year? Sure... and if each one sells for a profit of about $150, that's over a billion dollars profit right there.

    Now, if they'd only tweak BB10 so it could OPTIONALLY use BIS, they might see new opportunities for network fees (if it lets emerging market users access the internet in a limited fashion but the user pays the BIS fees, the carrier is happy, the user is happy, BlackBerry is happy... so why not keep BIS alive if there are business opportunities to explore?)
    09-23-13 11:10 PM
  6. pythons's Avatar
    Until BBRY can produce a handset that can use what was popular "last year"....
    ...They have no hope of selling devices that perform the same way as their current devices perform.
    ....We would be VERY lucky to see any future quality products from BBRY.
    09-24-13 12:04 AM
  7. RyanGermann's Avatar
    ...and if I needed any further convincing that a large screen BB10 slider would be a success, it's the reviews of the Galaxy Note III that single out its size and differentiation as key selling points.... a BB10 slider with a 5+" 1080p screen and a keyboard with trackpad would be that for the BB10 product line.

    The last word on...the Galaxy Note 3 and Galaxy Gear
    10-01-13 01:45 PM
  8. anon1727506's Avatar
    ...and if I needed any further convincing that a large screen BB10 slider would be a success, it's the reviews of the Galaxy Note III that single out its size and differentiation as key selling points.... a BB10 slider with a 5+" 1080p screen and a keyboard with trackpad would be that for the BB10 product line.

    The last word on...the Galaxy Note 3 and Galaxy Gear
    Note sure why another device being a success would relate to anything the BlackBerry might do also being a success?

    Is the Z30 a huge success, they just release it and it's as good as the NOTE I so I'm sure it is going to be a huge hit right?

    Yes I think a slider still has a market... about the same size market as the Q10 and it's definitive BlackBerry keyboard.

    The People have spoken and full touch screens are what they want! Hybrids exist, but they are not the big sellers - just niche devices. And could you (or a woman with a small hand) hold a 5"+ device in one hand and still type on it?
    10-01-13 03:12 PM
  9. Brutal Efficiency's Avatar
    I believe the releases from Fairfax and BlackBerry both indicate that they intend to keep their handset hardware portfolio. They need to do a lot better job with inventory management and not be afraid to sell devices for a profit (i.e. not trying to hit arbitrary price points, but sell their unique offerings at prices commensurate with the potential market and cost of manufacturing + profit). Selling millions of devices at a profit in conjunction with their MDM software business and potential monetization of BBM all are realistic in my opinion: no not 9 million devices in one weekend, but 9 million devices a year? Sure... and if each one sells for a profit of about $150, that's over a billion dollars profit right there.

    Now, if they'd only tweak BB10 so it could OPTIONALLY use BIS, they might see new opportunities for network fees (if it lets emerging market users access the internet in a limited fashion but the user pays the BIS fees, the carrier is happy, the user is happy, BlackBerry is happy... so why not keep BIS alive if there are business opportunities to explore?)
    Yes, I want BIS on BlackBerry 10 in some form or fashion.

    Wouldn't it be good or BlackBerry made a Netflix competitor using BIS!?!? I'd happily pay $20 a month for that!!!!

    BlackBerry & Nintendo Alliance. Bring Pokmon to BlackBerry 10.
    10-01-13 06:29 PM
  10. tmanthib's Avatar
    I was hoping for a slider with at least a 4" screen like the 9810, or a landscape slider. Take the Z30 and put a slider on that bad boy, now we're talking.

    Posted via CB10
    10-01-13 07:40 PM
  11. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Note sure why another device being a success would relate to anything the BlackBerry might do also being a success?
    A touchscreen device with a stylus is the ultimate anachronism: remember the Apple Newton? Released in 1996 having a touchscreen and using a stylus. Not successful. But today, a large screen device with a stylus is a huge hit. Not all large-screen android devices are huge hits... just the large screen device WITH A STYLUS.

    A large-screen BlackBerry is not going to be a huge hit: but a large screen blackberry WITH A TRACKPAD AND KEYBOARD could be. Note that the TrackPad facilitates one handed operation even with a large touchscreen where a large touchscreen without a trackpad requires two-handed operation.

    The People have spoken and full touch screens are what they want! Hybrids exist, but they are not the big sellers - just niche devices. And could you (or a woman with a small hand) hold a 5"+ device in one hand and still type on it?
    Now, really... did you put much thought into your post? or did you just hear that BlackBerry failed on CNBC and come on CrackBerry.com to post why nothing BlackBerry could possibly do could be successful? The article states that over 20 million Note devices have been sold, and that's hardly something you can dismiss. So, I don't know which "people" are "speaking" to you, but can anyone else hear them?

    I thought the connection was clear: the success of the Galaxy Note series, with it's anachronistic "stylus" input, could indicate that a large screen device, produced by BlackBerry with the unique BlackBerry features of full QWERTY keyboard / trackpad / hard buttons, could also be successful, by presenting an alternative to all the other full-slab undifferentiated devices out there. A BlackBerry 10 slider device would be different from the myriad of other large screen phones and small-screen tablets, to the point where it could attract significant attention from "prosumers".

    Not to mention that for mobile computing, where composing and editing lengthy documents on a touchscreen-only device is impractical to the point of pure frustration, a device with a keyboard and a trackpad is almost a necessity. No one is seriously going to edit long-form text on a full-touchscreen device: when the task arises, they will make a bee-line to a device with a full physical keyboard and mouse (which is what a TrackPad is). Ok, there are exceptions to every rule, and I'm sure that some people would undergo the torment of composing long-form text documents on a full touchscreen device just for the sake of doing so, but I think that people who would do that are rare to the point of insignificance in terms of marketing a competitive device... AND HUNDREDS OF DEVICES ALREADY EXIST TO APPEAL TO THOSE FRINGE CASES, so how would the New BlackBerry continue to benefit by doing that EVEN MORE than they already are? They need differentiation: the large screen / keyboard / trackpad / hard buttons slider format would be unique, employing patented BlackBerry technology.
    10-02-13 12:59 AM
  12. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I want a slider.
    It's pretty much the only thing, that would make my next device a BlackBerry again.
    Screen must have at least 4.5 inches though, with 5 inches preferred.
    My next phone will be the Note 3, if a miracle doesn't happen but I still have a little hope for a slider.

    I personally don't want a trackpad and the buttons back, but if this is the only way to get such a device, I may think about it again.

    In any case, for me, a slider would be the ultimate prosumer device, as it would give me the possibility of using a HW keyboard when writing messages and a large touchscreen if I want to enjoy movies/apps/the browser etc...
    (I have a long list of sliders or similar creative solutions in mobile phones,that I have used in the last 10 years.)

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-13 06:46 AM
  13. kbz1960's Avatar

    The People have spoken and full touch screens are what they want! Hybrids exist, but they are not the big sellers - just niche devices. And could you (or a woman with a small hand) hold a 5"+ device in one hand and still type on it?
    Does anyone that buys a 5+" device expect to be able to use it one handed? Unless they have huge hands anyway?
    Last edited by kbz1960; 10-02-13 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Huge
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    10-02-13 06:54 AM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Does anyone that buys a 5+" device expect to be able to use it one handed? Unless they have huge hands anyway?
    I hope not


    I can use a HTC One with only one of my hands, but I have big ones.
    The Note 2 tends to be too big for me though, when using it one-handed.

    But yes, thinking of buying a 5+ inch device, and then not using 2 hands, sounds rather delusional.

    I wonder what people will say about the Z30 though.
    I can't remember how many users said that 5+ inch phones are ridiculous, and nobody needs them, as the Z10 has the perfect size...

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    10-02-13 07:04 AM
  15. xandermac's Avatar
    How well did the 9800/9810 sell? According to the "open letter to blackberry", not very well. Personally, it's my favorite form factor which is why I bought a 9800 full retail on day one from AT&T to unlock for T-Mobile. But, if it didn't sell well they can't afford to experiment at this point.

    one portrait slider: the Torch of BB10. Why they haven't released this device yet is puzzling, because it provides the best of both worlds legendary BB keyboard plus a full size touchscreen... if any single device delivers on the idea of "mobile computing" it's a slider.
    10-02-13 07:06 AM
  16. Tyler Nellissen's Avatar
    To me a prosumer is less about phones and more apps. In my mind prosumer don't really need to want top apps. They want apps that make their professional lives easier. Not Netflix not huge specs. Real honest to goodness well made business apps. BlackBerry should make these apps unsteady of let's say... story maker.

    Posted via CB10
    10-02-13 07:27 AM
  17. kbz1960's Avatar
    I hope not
    http://i-cdn.phonearena.com/images/r...Phone-5-03.jpg

    I can use a HTC One with only one of my hands, but I have big ones.
    The Note 2 tends to be too big for me though, when using it one-handed.

    But yes, thinking of buying a 5+ inch device, and then not using 2 hands, sounds rather delusional.

    I wonder what people will say about the Z30 though.
    I can't remember how many users said that 5+ inch phones are ridiculous, and nobody needs them, as the Z10 has the perfect size...

    Posted via CB10
    Yes it will. I know the issue many are saying is bb10 was made to be used one handed and the 30 is too big for that. Well if that's what someone wants stick with 10. BB10 doesn't have to be used one handed.
    Last edited by kbz1960; 10-02-13 at 07:51 AM. Reason: Friggen auto
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    10-02-13 07:50 AM
  18. RyanGermann's Avatar
    To me a prosumer is less about phones and more apps. In my mind prosumer don't really need to want top apps. They want apps that make their professional lives easier. Not Netflix not huge specs. Real honest to goodness well made business apps. BlackBerry should make these apps unsteady of let's say... story maker.
    The term "prosumer" is sometimes mistakenly thought of as "professional consumer" which is a contradiction in terms, but I guess carries the notion that a person may use their device for business but also for recreation... but someone posted a definition where "prosumer" as originally coined meant "proactive consumer"... someone who is an enthusiast about the product and proactively involves his- or her-self into the design and marketing of the product, to ensure it meets their needs. This to me is a better definition of the prosumer... for me, if I get that ultimate Slider, I'd be willing to pay for apps that are free on other platforms, acknowledging that I'm a niche customer who can't reasonably expect that the economies of scale will kick in: if you want to live on the outer regions of civilization, expect to pay more for shipping and telephone service. If I wanted a billion free apps I'd already be on Android or iOS, wouldn't I?
    10-02-13 10:04 PM
  19. hoob15's Avatar
    As much as personally like the form factor, I don't know if they sold too well, which is a shame.
    Hope I'm wrong about it, but if not, then I don't think investing in a 3rd form factor would be too wise a choice right now.
    10-03-13 12:47 PM
  20. RyanGermann's Avatar
    How well did the 9800/9810 sell? According to the "open letter to blackberry", not very well.
    My evidence is anecdotal, but of the devices that you can actually recognize from 10 feet away, nowadays I see lots of iPhones, and the occasional humungous thing that I figure must be a Galaxy Note (I know there are more humungous devices out now, but they're the majority), and used to see a lot of Torch 9800 / 9810s.

    Initial sales of the BlackBerry Torch were slow to moderate, with AT&T Wireless Operations president expressing some disappointment in the sales stating that he was "surprised there hasn't been a faster adoption" of the smart phone by the public.[21] Estimates put sales at somewhere between 100,000 to 150,000 devices sold during the first week of release.[22] However, sales reportedly improved in the months following the release and RIM shipped a record amount of smart phones in the final quarter of 2010.[23] The BlackBerry Torch placed 6th place on Wirefly's annual top ten selling smart phones list for 2010, selling more than Motorola's Droid 2 and Samsung's Galaxy S Fascinate, but behind devices like the Evo 4G and Droid Incredible.
    There aren't separate figures for the 9810, but all things considered, the 9800 / 9810 did sell pretty well for a BlackBerry device in 2010 / 2011. I think that a BB10 slider would do better than a BB10 full slab, because of it's unique form factor: it would offer the best text editing experience on any smartphone, hands down. Sure, we can debate the text ENTRY experience being great on a Z10 or Z30 with the BlackBerry Flick keyboard, but text EDITING is optimized with a high-precision pointing device and physical keyboard... and for prosumers, fast text entry without decent text editing capability is a recipe for badly-spelled druken-celebutante tweets, not for serious communication.
    10-03-13 09:53 PM
  21. neoberry99's Avatar
    I think a slider with a 4.5" screen would work well with prosumers.
    10-04-13 07:16 AM
  22. Blacklatino's Avatar
    I would like a Slider as well. If it's available, I'll get two. As far as the experimentation I agree with xandermac. LOL. Sales could have been better....and same goes for the marketing at the time. The 9810 specs should have been in the 9800, the 9810 was written off as as a "stop-gap" / Refresh device prior to the 1st QNX/BB10 delay, dismissed by RIM prior to the launch and totally underrated. So, it's all "to be continued" experimentation as BlackBerry tries to recapture the historical magic from the past.
    10-04-13 07:45 AM
  23. anon(2313227)'s Avatar
    Slider is costly and gimmicky. Costly to produce and support. More moving parts = more support cost. Prosumer I assume means getting back to basic and producing 9900 quality phones and features. Feature parity between os7 and BB10 is why we have issues in the prosumer.
    10-04-13 08:00 AM
  24. iamagod's Avatar
    1000% agreed with the OP. Ive been saying the same thing from the start. BlackBerry needs to STOP making me-too devices that can't match the incumbents. It needs to differentiate and excel with its unique advantages such as trackpad, hard keys and BIS. And a slider form-factor is necessary to have both a kb and a large screen.

    Being able to open the phone app from anywhere in the os, having a hard key to end calls, having a back key (hold to close app, press to move back), incredibly precise text editing and scrolling of lists/pages, clicking on the tiniest links without blocking your screen or misclicking and application shortcuts/speed dialing were the things I LOVED about BlackBerry. Even the app switching whilst holding the BBmenu button was better in BBOS!

    I bought the Z10 and was unsatisified. I thought it was the kb I missed. I bought the Q10 and was even more dissapointed with the lack of features, esp app shortcuts. I still miss my 9900 til this day and would buy a portrait slider BB10 device with a trackpad/hard keys in an instant. And would pay $700+ for it

    Posted via CB10
    RyanGermann likes this.
    10-04-13 12:33 PM

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