10-31-13 08:32 PM
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  1. Saiga's Avatar
    they should definitley count the HTC HD2, that was the phablet of its day! such a awesome looking phone
    Haha! My older brother still has his. He says he'll never get rid of it, though he doesn't use as his daily driver. Developers are still supporting that phone to this day. That's why he still hangs on to it. He likes to tinker with it.
    10-31-13 01:11 AM
  2. BBThemes's Avatar
    Haha! My older brother still has his. He says he'll never get rid of it, though he doesn't use as his daily driver. Developers are still supporting that phone to this day. That's why he still hangs on to it. He likes to tinker with it.
    my friend managed to get android 2.2 on it back in the day IIRC, heres the scary thing, that released in the same month as the storm 2.
    10-31-13 01:17 AM
  3. Saiga's Avatar
    my friend managed to get android 2.2 on it back in the day IIRC, heres the scary thing, that released in the same month as the storm 2.
    Did you have to remind me? Man, I made such a fool of myself back then. My brother with his HTC dual booting Android and Windows on command like it wasn't nothing and me with my BlackBerry Storm 2 trying to convince him that my phone was better.

    When I was a BlackBerry fanboy, I did a lot of things I regret now and the Storm 2 VS HD2 arguments rank very high on the list.
    10-31-13 01:24 AM
  4. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    It would appear that you're only counting the newer Windows Phone devices. You only counted back 7 quarters, and arrived at 36,000,000 units. That don't work unless you're assuming the same holds true for the count of BlackBerry devices. Which I'm sure it don't. Realistically, there is no question that the vast majority of the counted BlackBerry devices in these graphs are far older than 7 quarters.
    This explanation makes sense.

    Plus RubberChicken did not bother counting the pre-Nokia Windows Phone 7 devices, add the 20% non-Nokia Windows Phone 8 OEM marketshare, and made the wildly inaccurate extrapolation that Nokia has maintained an 80% Windows Phone marketshare since the inception of the Lumia 800.

    It cannot even actually be inferred whether Windows Phone (just Windows Phone 7 and 8 and excluding Windows Mobile) did or did not ship 70 million from the data RubberChicken posted and that is giving him the benefit of the doubt that the data is correct. The latter assumption is so absurd that Windows Phone shipped volumes could potentially more than double correcting for it.
    Last edited by sentimentGX4; 10-31-13 at 01:49 AM.
    10-31-13 01:25 AM
  5. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    using that `cheap phone` logic, whats your view on all the users gained by the dirt cheap curves?

    `nokia is gone` if you mean sold, then why yes it is, now, tell me, isnt BlackBerry about to sell itself too
    Nokia really had no choice. They were going to run out of money in 2014. Nokia gone by being sold, yes. But you honestly think Microsoft will keep everything the same? Microsoft will break down it's ownership of Nokia little by little like it has with everything else Microsoft has bought out in the last 15 years.

    Curves are one model. I'll give you a range of Nokia's that are dirt cheap and off contract. Even Curve prices can't touch them.

    Nokia Lumia 521 No-Contract 4" Windows Smartphone - T-Mobile at HSN.com

    AT&T GoPhone Nokia Lumia 520 No-Contract Phone Bundle - RadioShack.com

    Even the 1020 is free with contract.

    The 521 was as low as $84.99 off contract at best buy
    TMobile Prepaid Nokia Lumia 521 4G NoContract Mobile Phone NOK LUMIA 521 WHITE CLAM TD KI - Best Buy

    Unlocked Nokia Lumia 900 4G LTE Windows Smartphone with 4.3" LED & 16GB Storage. $169.99 No Contract

    Unlocked Nokia Lumia 900 4G LTE Windows Smartphone w/ 4.3" LED, 1.4GHz CPU, 16GB Storage & Carl Zeiss Lens $169.99 No Contract

    These are all in the last 12 months.
    10-31-13 07:16 AM
  6. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    It would appear that you're only counting the newer Windows Phone devices. You only counted back 7 quarters, and arrived at 36,000,000 units.
    I counted all quarters where the dominant player in Windows Phone has been selling devices. It just doesn't add up for me that there would be almost 70 million in use when Windows Phone has really only started to accelerate in the last year and Nokia is the company with 80-85% of the market.

    That don't work unless you're assuming the same holds true for the count of BlackBerry devices.
    I wasn't even looking at BlackBerry at all. But if we did, there was - until a quarter ago, an active subscriber count with them.

    but limiting Windows Phone to less than 2 years.
    If the chart is to be believed, they're saying "active users". Windows Phone only launched 3 years ago. And it hardly sold any units until Nokia was the one pushing. If Nokia has shipped less than 37 million units the entire time, I don't see how 68 million people use Windows Phone.

    It has nothing to do with BlackBerry. It has nothing to do with bashing Windows Phone. I just find it suspect when they claim 68 million people use Windows Phones in the world right now. Don't see how they get there.

    Y
    ou'll notice that I said "Windows Phone". You may also notice that all of the graphs also point out Windows Phone. Not Windows Phone 7 or 8. Just Windows Phone.
    Yes. And if the company with 85% of the market has shipped 37 million since launching, where do the other 30 odd million come from?
    Not sure where the confusion on your end came from, but I'm pretty sure those graphs aren't unfairly counting every BlackBerry device in use while only counting newer Windows Phone devices like you tried to do.
    Actually, where I'm confused is why you're turning this into an argument that isn't there. I didn't mention BlackBerry. I just questioned the Windows Phone number.

    If it is ok to group BlackBerry OS 4 devices with BlackBerry 10 devices, shouldn't it also be ok to count Windows Mobile along side Windows Phone?
    Didn't even mention BlackBerry and I'm not sure that's what they did. BlackBerry 10 hasn't even shipped enough to appear on the list.
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 10-31-13 at 07:33 AM.
    10-31-13 07:17 AM
  7. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    you're talking non-sense man
    Prove me wrong then. Nokia moved many phones without making any money on them.
    10-31-13 07:18 AM
  8. BBThemes's Avatar
    Nokia really had no choice. They were going to run out of money in 2014. Nokia gone by being sold, yes.
    At it's current burn rate of about. 5bn per quarter, BlackBerry's money will also run out in 2014.
    And as there is a bid in for BlackBerry then by your own logic BlackBerry is gone by being sold too.

    I'm not denying Nokia sold cheap phones, but you don't seem to see BlackBerry has been playing the same game with the same results for a while now.

    Posted via CB10
    10-31-13 07:22 AM
  9. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Plus RubberChicken did not bother counting the pre-Nokia Windows Phone 7 devices,
    That's because are negibile. They might add a couple million units, but not 30 million. Ever seen a Samsung or HTC press release where they talk about moving 5 million of a Windows Phone model? I haven't. Any of the marketshare surveys I've seen suggested that Windows Phone sputtered through Windows Phone 7 with negligible shipments.

    add the 20% non-Nokia Windows Phone 8 OEM marketshare, and made the wildly inaccurate extrapolation that Nokia has maintained an 80% Windows Phone marketshare since the inception of the Lumia 800.
    No, that wasn't what I was saying. How many Windows Phones were selling prior to the Lumia and Nokia being in that space? Can you point to - say - 5 other manufacturers selling Windows Phones in that volume. There wasn't another wildly dominant player with a massive install base and shipments in the Windows Phone market that Nokia stole share away from. Nokia is the one causing the growth in Windows Phone.

    IDC: Windows Phone Grows 77.6% YoY In Q2 2013, Nokia Dominates Total Device Shipments With 81.6% | WMPoweruser
    Research shows Nokia dominates the Windows Phone market | Digital Trends
    Nokia Dominating Windows Phone Ecosystem With 90% Of Market


    Not sure why this concept is so difficult to understand or why people are making more of this than is?
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 10-31-13 at 09:14 AM.
    10-31-13 07:26 AM
  10. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    also worth noting that the 8.8m figure for the last quarter is actually the nokia lumia figure only. i know i know, not many other WP phones have been selling, but its probably a fair ammount over the lifespan of the platform, so should really be every WP not just lumia`s.

    How that would affect it im not sure, but i agree WP is 7 and 8 (and 7.5 or whatever they called it)
    For sure it would add to the number when you extrapolate in non-Nokia phones, but I still don't see there being 30 million of them. The lumia and the lumia alone has been driving the Windows Phone growth.
    10-31-13 07:31 AM
  11. BBThemes's Avatar
    For sure it would add to the number when you extrapolate in non-Nokia phones, but I still don't see there being 30 million of them. The lumia and the lumia alone has been driving the Windows Phone growth.
    I do agree with that statement about limited, but that's only what we see in the press. Kinda akin to saying Samsung is the one driving android growth, yet we know there are many smaller devices doing rather well in other regions of the world.

    I guess my point is it would be better to have the full facts and figures, as that would make everything a lot clearer.

    Personally I'm not too bothered either way, it's a phone at the end of the day, but we have to admit in the last quarter BlackBerry sold less than 4m and lumias alone did almost 9m. At that run rate even if windows phone is still behind it won't be a true statement for long.

    Posted via CB10
    10-31-13 07:40 AM
  12. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    At it's current burn rate of about. 5bn per quarter, BlackBerry's money will also run out in 2014.
    And as there is a bid in for BlackBerry then by your own logic BlackBerry is gone by being sold too.

    I'm not denying Nokia sold cheap phones, but you don't seem to see BlackBerry has been playing the same game with the same results for a while now.

    Posted via CB10
    Nokia phones were actually a huge loss. It's the rest of the company that was alright enough to recover some of those losses. For what I understand Nokia was bleeding far more from phones than Blackberry was and still is. Also, I believe Nokia had some debt. Blackberry has none. So it is still possible to get some debt if Blackberry needed money for strategy.

    Sorry but Blackberry won. It's close but as I expected, Blackberry outlasted Nokia.

    I also think, Blackberry should be able to survive longer than HTC without any intervention. A big if. As sad as it is, with all those employees being released from Blackberry, it should give the company more stable ground. The problem was Nokia's losses were accelerating. Blackberry isn't on that page.
    10-31-13 08:23 AM
  13. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I do agree with that statement about limited, but that's only what we see in the press. Kinda akin to saying Samsung is the one driving android growth, yet we know there are many smaller devices doing rather well in other regions of the world.
    It would be nice to know more about what they're measuring. Like if they're secretly lumping other Windows Mobile devices in there too. The thing is, the smaller devices don't amount to much. If you look at the various Comcore, IDC, WorldPanel studies etc, Windows Phone really didn't move the needle till Nokia jumped in and shipments were negligible. Samsung, HTC and the others all put their efforts into Android.

    For example:

    http://blogs.computerworld.com/18236...w_report_finds

    http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-says-...one-shipments/

    BlackBerry sold less than 4m and lumias alone did almost 9m. At that run rate even if windows phone is still behind it won't be a true statement for long.
    Very true. I don't think they've quite taken the "third largest ecosystem" away from the old BlackBerry OS yet, but if the churn continues on BB's side and the growth continues on Nokia's side, it's going to happen within the next few quarters. BlackBerry 10 itself will be extremely lucky to get to 10 million shipped by the end of the year.
    10-31-13 09:12 AM
  14. BBThemes's Avatar
    Nokia phones were actually a huge loss.
    Again, same applies to BlackBerry. Billion dollar z10 write down remember.

    Posted via CB10
    10-31-13 09:19 AM
  15. Hilman76's Avatar
    Looks like Strategy Analytics came out with their market share numbers today:

    GWI: Q3 2013 Mobile OS userbase : WP  68m and BB 62m IOS: 232m Android: 703m-strategy-analytics-smartphone-os-q3-2013.jpg
    Android snags record 81 percent of smartphone market | Mobile - CNET News
    10-31-13 01:42 PM
  16. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    So you're trying to say that "we're #4"?
    Sort of...we're actually tied with "Don't Know"
    Saiga and Poirots Progeny like this.
    10-31-13 08:32 PM
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