08-21-15 08:19 AM
137 1234 ...
tools
  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    That's interesting. So, if I'm reading that correctly, you download an app from Tizen's app store that allows you to run Android apps? So in theory BlackBerry could decouple the runtime from BB10 but allow it to be downloaded separately?

    Of course they could also fork Android and users who were so inclined could just sideload Google apks. Be interesting to see if you can root a BlackBerry Android device in any event.
    Tizen doesn't have Android code in it. It started with Linux (kinda like Android), so it is very similar to Android.

    The runtime in BB10 is based on Googles released open source Android Code. BlackBerry could make their player without Android Code... but that would be a much bigger task.

    I think if BlackBerry made the Android Runtime - regardless of when it was installed, it would void the OHA.
    06-19-15 08:49 AM
  2. playbookster's Avatar
    Any company owned by BB would be considered BB. You don't really think Google didn't foresee these kinds of work-arounds when they created the OHA, did you?

    Also, the OHA applies to companies who are OEMs for other companies. If Foxconn wanted to make an OHA phone in their own name, they'd have to be an OHA member, which would mean they couldn't produce BB10 phones. If Foxconn OEM'd a phone for someone else, that company would have to be an OHA member in order to get Google Services, etc.

    Google has $65 BILLION in cash alone, and is worth hundreds of billions. Does anyone think that their lawyers are going to miss obvious ploys like this?

    And even if they did, they'd simply update the rules. The OHA rules apply to ALL companies who want Google Services, and there are currently over 200 manufacturers who are members, and every one of them would have a fit if some other company got to break the rules. Why in the world would Google break them for BB and BB10, which has 0.1% marketshare (and falling)? Because Crackberrians want them too? LOL.
    Why must you respond with attitude every single time.?

    Posted via CB10
    Toodeurep and tmf06 like this.
    06-19-15 09:01 AM
  3. edmazaker's Avatar
    ^^ this

    Posted via CB10
    Toodeurep likes this.
    06-19-15 09:41 AM
  4. notafanofyou's Avatar
    Right - this is the bit people seem unable or unwilling to get - the rules are whatever google says are the rules right upto the day you ship the phone
    Exactly. Which means anything goes. Anything can happen behide closed doors regardless what some here think they know.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-15 09:46 AM
  5. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Tizen doesn't have Android code in it. It started with Linux (kinda like Android), so it is very similar to Android.

    The runtime in BB10 is based on Googles released open source Android Code. BlackBerry could make their player without Android Code... but that would be a much bigger task.

    I think if BlackBerry made the Android Runtime - regardless of when it was installed, it would void the OHA.
    Well, if that's the case, I couldnt see that happening.
    06-19-15 10:02 AM
  6. MmmHmm's Avatar
    Isn't it upsetting to see garbage apps like Clans make so much money, while contributing nothing to society.

    And then you have BlackBerry, relied upon by governments across the world to secure communications. And they are just staying afloat.

    See it all the time in this world, but it's so curious. And annoying.

    Posted via CB10
    Entertainment based media contributes to society. Most people need both work (a feeling of accomplishment) and pleasure/leisure to be happy. They are willing to pay for the latter. What's wrong with that? There's much more to life than secure government communications and the like.
    06-19-15 10:13 AM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Entertainment based media contributes to society. Most people need both work (a feeling of accomplishment) and pleasure/leisure to be happy. They are willing to pay for the latter. What's wrong with that? There's much more to life than secure government communications and the like.
    The problem is BlackBerry wants their cake, and to eat it too.

    Their niche is high security installation, so they should be charging for their services and product like all other high security products. But they REALLY, REALLY don't want to give up on consumers. Chen might say their focus is enterprise... but was the Z3 an enterprise device? Is the rumored Oslo and Prague aren't really enterprise looking devices....

    But then I'm not sure high security is more that a couple million devices a year... if that.
    06-19-15 10:38 AM
  8. cgk's Avatar
    Exactly. Which means anything goes. Anything can happen behide closed doors regardless what some here think they know.

    Posted via CB10
    Well sort of - we know they never approve anything but android and nothing but android and never have - so anything goes within that very small box. The idea that they would approve dual boots or hypervisors would require them to do a 180 on every single decision and every legal battle they have though in the last ten years.
    06-19-15 11:10 AM
  9. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Any company owned by BB would be considered BB. You don't really think Google didn't foresee these kinds of work-arounds when they created the OHA, did you?

    Also, the OHA applies to companies who are OEMs for other companies. If Foxconn wanted to make an OHA phone in their own name, they'd have to be an OHA member, which would mean they couldn't produce BB10 phones. If Foxconn OEM'd a phone for someone else, that company would have to be an OHA member in order to get Google Services, etc.

    Google has $65 BILLION in cash alone, and is worth hundreds of billions. Does anyone think that their lawyers are going to miss obvious ploys like this?

    And even if they did, they'd simply update the rules. The OHA rules apply to ALL companies who want Google Services, and there are currently over 200 manufacturers who are members, and every one of them would have a fit if some other company got to break the rules. Why in the world would Google break them for BB and BB10, which has 0.1% marketshare (and falling)? Because Crackberrians want them too? LOL.
    Why has Google not done anything about Tizen's ability to run Android apps? And why would BB not be able to position their Android RT in the same manner?

    Samsung's Tizen-powered Z1: A rival for Android One, if not all of Android | Android Central

    There is a relatively easy way to run Android apps on Tizen devices. OpenMobile's ACL is already running Android apps on the Samsung Z1 through the Tizen Store, including the popular WhatsApp messenger. It's a stopgap solution, but also something of a catch-22. If Tizen can run Android apps, even if the user experience is less than ideal, that's an easy way for developers to bring apps to the platform with minimal effort. It's also a reason for them to avoid writing native Tizen apps, giving users the best experience on phones like the Z1. (It's also a problem faced by any non-Google platform attempting to run Android apps and something Google Play Services was surely designed to insulate against.)
    06-19-15 11:48 AM
  10. skibnik's Avatar
    Ever since QNX announced its Hypervisor program I did some research on what a Hypervisor is and from what I gathered in theory, Blackberry could use what is called a type 2 or hosted hypervisor. Whatever device is used it would boot and run Android in a native manor while also running BB10 at the same time through the hypervisor itself. Its one possible and most likely way that Blackbery could actually get OHA certified.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hyperviseur.png
    nick13b likes this.
    06-19-15 11:52 AM
  11. twiggyrj's Avatar
    Why has Google not done anything about Tizen's ability to run Android apps? And why would BB not be able to position their Android RT in the same manner?





    Samsung's Tizen-powered Z1: A rival for Android One, if not all of Android | Android Central


    The Tizen android runtime isn't done by Samsung nor is it Preloaded like the BB android runtime. The runtime on tizen is done by OpenMobile.
    06-19-15 11:54 AM
  12. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    The Tizen android runtime isn't done by Samsung nor is it Preloaded like the BB android runtime. The runtime on tizen is done by OpenMobile.
    But it is still being made available to tizen devices. Samsung hasn't locked it out. And Google with the kagillions of dollars in the piggy bank and numerous high priced lawyers not taking action is a bit of a head scratcher based on what Troy said (Google being smart, rich, and all that jazz).
    wincyUt likes this.
    06-19-15 12:16 PM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar
    But it is still being made available to tizen devices. Samsung hasn't locked it out. And Google with the kagillions of dollars in the piggy bank and numerous high priced lawyers not taking action is a bit of a head scratcher based on what Troy said (Google being smart, rich, and all that jazz).
    Well, Samsung is also very smart, very rich, and all that jazz. Samsung has a lot of leverage in their relationship with Google.

    BlackBerry has absolutely none of that. As someone said earlier, the rules are whatever Google thinks they can get away with and still maintain Android's dominance. So I don't know that anyone can really predict what will happen here.

    I do think, though, that mainstream users expect their Android device should have access to Google services, and popular apps are becoming more dependent on Google also. So the Android runtime in BB10 becomes less useful and less relevant over time anyway.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    06-19-15 12:24 PM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    But it is still being made available to tizen devices. Samsung hasn't locked it out. And Google with the kagillions of dollars in the piggy bank and numerous high priced lawyers not taking action is a bit of a head scratcher based on what Troy said (Google being smart, rich, and all that jazz).
    I don't know that Tizen is worth the trouble at this point. If I had to guess, I would think the Google-Samsung agreement has addressed this.
    06-19-15 12:27 PM
  15. Ment's Avatar
    But it is still being made available to tizen devices. Samsung hasn't locked it out. And Google with the kagillions of dollars in the piggy bank and numerous high priced lawyers not taking action is a bit of a head scratcher based on what Troy said (Google being smart, rich, and all that jazz).
    Historically Google doesn't care much what USERs do to their devices, thus the large and active hacking/mod communities like XDA. But companies are different. If BB stripped the runtime out of BB10 and then made whatever changes need to be done for Open ACL to run on BB10 then Google wouldn't care either as long as its not pre-loaded.
    mornhavon likes this.
    06-19-15 12:27 PM
  16. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    Any company owned by BB would be considered BB. You don't really think Google didn't foresee these kinds of work-arounds when they created the OHA, did you?

    Also, the OHA applies to companies who are OEMs for other companies. If Foxconn wanted to make an OHA phone in their own name, they'd have to be an OHA member, which would mean they couldn't produce BB10 phones. If Foxconn OEM'd a phone for someone else, that company would have to be an OHA member in order to get Google Services, etc.

    Google has $65 BILLION in cash alone, and is worth hundreds of billions. Does anyone think that their lawyers are going to miss obvious ploys like this?

    And even if they did, they'd simply update the rules. The OHA rules apply to ALL companies who want Google Services, and there are currently over 200 manufacturers who are members, and every one of them would have a fit if some other company got to break the rules. Why in the world would Google break them for BB and BB10, which has 0.1% marketshare (and falling)? Because Crackberrians want them too? LOL.
    A corporate company depending on Inc Co etc are different Brands entirely and cross charging is fully allowed. Take note Motorola's ownership by Motorola Inc then the split happened into Motorola Mobility (the genesis of our hosts BlackBerry Mobility), and then the sale to Google plus finally Google selling Motorola the license exchanges hands and must be renegotiated for new and in development devices needs to be amended. Current agr element before the split would not affect in market and previously sold devices.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-15 12:35 PM
  17. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    OHA does not nor never supercedes legal corporate business law

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-15 12:35 PM
  18. twiggyrj's Avatar
    OHA does not nor never supercedes legal corporate business law

    Posted via CB10

    But if Google sees it differently then they can disqualify it still, the OHA is googles rule and their interpretation of those rules.
    06-19-15 12:50 PM
  19. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    OHA does not nor never supercedes legal corporate business law
    Google could elect not to license Google Services and the Play Store to anyone, for any reason. It's Google's product - they own it and they control it. OHA membership is VOLUNTARY and there is plenty of other OSs on the market, and nothing prevents anyone from making their own. Any lawsuit would be laughed out of court.

    If it was that easy, why haven't all of the OHA members done so - why do they follow the OHA rules instead? More over, why hasn't SAMSUNG done it?
    06-19-15 12:52 PM
  20. Soulstream's Avatar
    Historically Google doesn't care much what USERs do to their devices, thus the large and active hacking/mod communities like XDA. But companies are different. If BB stripped the runtime out of BB10 and then made whatever changes need to be done for Open ACL to run on BB10 then Google wouldn't care either as long as its not pre-loaded.
    Actually the modding community is a draw to Android. Android has become the platform of choice for "techies". The same logic can be applied to Snap for BB10. It is against Google's terms of services, but they don't bother with it because it is not supported in any official way.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    06-19-15 01:06 PM
  21. deadcowboy's Avatar
    Entertainment based media contributes to society. Most people need both work (a feeling of accomplishment) and pleasure/leisure to be happy. They are willing to pay for the latter. What's wrong with that? There's much more to life than secure government communications and the like.
    I just find it surprising that the Canadian Government would block the sale of BBRY to a foreign party (say Lenovo), because BlackBerry's security features and local management are so important to the functioning of governing society.

    But at the same time, everyone is content to watch BlackBerry flounder. It's so odd to me.

    Seems as though BlackBerry is a lot more important to the world than the likes of Clash of Clans. It's not an injustice, and there's nothing to do about it, but it is just one of those sad truths.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-15 01:06 PM
  22. early2bed's Avatar
    I just find it surprising that the Canadian Government would block the sale of BBRY to a foreign party (say Lenovo), because BlackBerry's security features and local management are so important to the functioning of governing society.

    But at the same time, everyone is content to watch BlackBerry flounder.
    It's much easier for politicians to ban something than it is to financially support it or even meddle in it's business.

    Ultimately, I believe that limiting the sale options that a company has hurts it in the long run because if you are limiting the pool of eligible buyers then you are almost certainly decreasing the value of the company. There are plenty of companies like BlackBerry that are purchased purely to prevent a competitor from acquiring the technology. Apparently, the big smartphone companies aren't worried about anyone else being able to acquire BlackBerry technology so they are content to watch it flounder.
    Last edited by early2bed; 06-19-15 at 01:31 PM.
    06-19-15 01:21 PM
  23. dbmalloy's Avatar
    There is no "getting creative"..... Google makes the rules... interprets them how they see fit.... applies them with impunity....
    06-19-15 01:28 PM
  24. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Historically Google doesn't care much what USERs do to their devices, thus the large and active hacking/mod communities like XDA. But companies are different. If BB stripped the runtime out of BB10 and then made whatever changes need to be done for Open ACL to run on BB10 then Google wouldn't care either as long as its not pre-loaded.
    And this is fine. As long as standards are applied evenly. If Tizen can do it then so should BlackBerry 10 as well.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-15 01:37 PM
  25. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I don't know that Tizen is worth the trouble at this point. If I had to guess, I would think the Google-Samsung agreement has addressed this.
    Agree it is not worth the trouble. Neither is BlackBerry 10. I would think the agreement with Samsung and Google just means Samsung is in bed with them for a few more years but it won't stop them from making Tizen phones or trying to push it mainstream.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-15 01:39 PM
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