08-21-15 08:19 AM
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  1. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Maybe this has been discussed previously, but I haven't bumped into it.

    There's been some talk about BlackBerry having to abandon the Android Runtime on BB10 in order for it to be able to legitimately sell full Android devices. I think we can mostly agree that, even though we don't prefer Android, being able to run some Android apps has been a significant contributor to the usefulness of BB10 devices.

    What If:
    Instead of BlackBerry making the Android devices. They would use some crafty corporate maneuvers and 'cross-licensing' deals to satisfy the OHA requirements (Troy will chime in, hopefully).

    Option 1:
    BlackBerry spins off a separate entity (call it, BlackBerry Mobility). BlackBerry Mobility's only devices are the new Android devices. In order to incorporate the BlackBerry Experience features (hub, bbm, etc) the license them from BlackBerry (at a nominal fee). At the same time, BlackBerry continues to produce and develop BB10 devices with the Android Runtime. Since BlackBerry Mobility would not be selling any Android-forked devices,.. would they therefore be eligible to become an OHA member?

    Option 2:
    BlackBerry licenses the BlackBerry Experience features AND the BlackBerry mark to FoxConn. FoxConn stops producing any BB10 devices, and only makes these Android wielding BlackBerry-branded devices. BlackBerry then merely offers FoxConn merchandise, and FoxConn contracts back service support for the devices from BlackBerry. This wouldn't even require BlackBerry having anything to do with OHA.

    Thoughts?

    Maybe I just need to stop staring at my computer screen for a while.
    06-18-15 08:11 PM
  2. eddy_berry's Avatar
    I don't have much thoughts other than I would like something like this to happen. Would keep me as a customer and hopefully bring in new customers and revenue. If BlackBerry has to play Google's game they might as well find any possible ways of bending the rules to their advantage. $10 says this idea ends up in some random financial news blog as reported coming from an unnamed source. Lol. Also I wish BlackBerry would market themselves. I keep seeing these ads for free Android games. Free Android games have a bigger marketing budget than BlackBerry! Sorry that stupid Game of War ad keeps playing... and boom beach... and clash of clans... Oh lord that's depressing.

    Oh another option might be to have the BB10 android runtime developed and not sold with devices but rather as an optional download. I read someone mention that as an option to skirt OHA rules because then BB10 wouldn't be sold with anything Android.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 08:33 PM
  3. keithhackneysmullet's Avatar
    Google isn't going to bend over backwards for 0.4% market share. Google stared down Samsung they aren't going to do blackBerry any favors.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 09:20 PM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    They could easy form another "company" to produce the android phones if they wanted to but Im not sure if its really worth the money to have to keep separate books and I am not sure if either company could actually stay afloat.
    sentimentGX4 and Superfly_FR like this.
    06-18-15 09:35 PM
  5. BBZ10wannabe's Avatar
    BlackBerry has purchased plenty of companies so I doubt if they would need to create one, although they could easily do so to limit their downside risk.

    The simplest solution might be to partner with someone who is already OHA approved, like Samsung, and give them access to a better BlackBerry "skin" for a new Android device. They certainly have no interest in getting more into manufacturing than they already are.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 09:57 PM
  6. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Google isn't going to bend over backwards for 0.4% market share. Google stared down Samsung they aren't going to do blackBerry any favors.

    Posted via CB10
    They wouldn't have to. The two options above actually constitute BlackBerry bending over backwards to appease Google's conditions.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 10:49 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Any company owned by BB would be considered BB. You don't really think Google didn't foresee these kinds of work-arounds when they created the OHA, did you?

    Also, the OHA applies to companies who are OEMs for other companies. If Foxconn wanted to make an OHA phone in their own name, they'd have to be an OHA member, which would mean they couldn't produce BB10 phones. If Foxconn OEM'd a phone for someone else, that company would have to be an OHA member in order to get Google Services, etc.

    Google has $65 BILLION in cash alone, and is worth hundreds of billions. Does anyone think that their lawyers are going to miss obvious ploys like this?

    And even if they did, they'd simply update the rules. The OHA rules apply to ALL companies who want Google Services, and there are currently over 200 manufacturers who are members, and every one of them would have a fit if some other company got to break the rules. Why in the world would Google break them for BB and BB10, which has 0.1% marketshare (and falling)? Because Crackberrians want them too? LOL.
    06-18-15 10:51 PM
  8. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    BlackBerry has purchased plenty of companies so I doubt if they would need to create one, although they could easily do so to limit their downside risk.

    The simplest solution might be to partner with someone who is already OHA approved, like Samsung, and give them access to a better BlackBerry "skin" for a new Android device. They certainly have no interest in getting more into manufacturing than they already are.

    Posted via CB10
    This seems most likely, but if they wanted to maintain the BlackBerry brand on the devices (as opposed to just installing software on Samsung, etc devices), then they would need a bit more than that.

    Certainly will be interesting to see how anything plays out. Hopefully they don't just throw in the towel.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 10:53 PM
  9. Ment's Avatar
    OHA rules are what Google wants them to be and what Google interprets them to be. No crafty workarounds are going to fly, sorry.
    app_Developer likes this.
    06-18-15 11:25 PM
  10. cgk's Avatar
    OHA rules are what Google wants them to be and what Google interprets them to be. No crafty workarounds are going to fly, sorry.
    Right - this is the bit people seem unable or unwilling to get - the rules are whatever google says are the rules right upto the day you ship the phone
    06-19-15 05:48 AM
  11. deadcowboy's Avatar
    I've been waiting for this forever. Get the Android runtime off of my BB10 phone. This is great news for BB10 fans. Simplification of the OS.

    Bring on BB-Android. And the cleansed BB10!

    Posted via CB10
    Madhuchandran and bigjman like this.
    06-19-15 06:59 AM
  12. eddy_berry's Avatar
    Okay back to the BlackBerry Samsung partnership concepts. Can't we dream Troy?! Can't we?? Lol. Always coming in here with your logic...

    Posted via CB10
    DrBoomBotz and kirson like this.
    06-19-15 07:09 AM
  13. kvndoom's Avatar
    I don't have much thoughts other than I would like something like this to happen. Would keep me as a customer and hopefully bring in new customers and revenue. If BlackBerry has to play Google's game they might as well find any possible ways of bending the rules to their advantage. $10 says this idea ends up in some random financial news blog as reported coming from an unnamed source. Lol. Also I wish BlackBerry would market themselves. I keep seeing these ads for free Android games. Free Android games have a bigger marketing budget than BlackBerry! Sorry that stupid Game of War ad keeps playing... and boom beach... and clash of clans... Oh lord that's depressing.

    Oh another option might be to have the BB10 android runtime developed and not sold with devices but rather as an optional download. I read someone mention that as an option to skirt OHA rules because then BB10 wouldn't be sold with anything Android.

    Posted via CB10
    Game of War makes 1.1 million dollars PER DAY. Clash of Clans makes 1.5 million dollars per day. With that kind of revenue, most of which will be profit, and the nature of the product (software only, small dev team), of course they can advertise.

    Posted from BlackBerry Classic, Verizon, no camera, 10.3.2.840
    06-19-15 07:14 AM
  14. deadcowboy's Avatar
    Game of War makes 1.1 million dollars PER DAY. Clash of Clans makes 1.5 million dollars per day. With that kind of revenue, most of which will be profit, and the nature of the product (software only, small dev team), of course they can advertise.

    Posted from BlackBerry Classic, Verizon, no camera, 10.3.2.840
    Isn't it upsetting to see garbage apps like Clans make so much money, while contributing nothing to society.

    And then you have BlackBerry, relied upon by governments across the world to secure communications. And they are just staying afloat.

    See it all the time in this world, but it's so curious. And annoying.

    Posted via CB10
    iamagod, DarkJoker33 and grover5 like this.
    06-19-15 07:18 AM
  15. eddy_berry's Avatar
    Game of War makes 1.1 million dollars PER DAY. Clash of Clans makes 1.5 million dollars per day. With that kind of revenue, most of which will be profit, and the nature of the product (software only, small dev team), of course they can advertise.

    Posted from BlackBerry Classic, Verizon, no camera, 10.3.2.840
    Yeah okay. I know. It's like I stuck the knife in my own gut and then you come along and start twisting it because simply stabbing isn't painful enough. :P

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-15 07:27 AM
  16. dguy123's Avatar
    Any company owned by BB would be considered BB. You don't really think Google didn't foresee these kinds of work-arounds when they created the OHA, did you?

    Also, the OHA applies to companies who are OEMs for other companies. If Foxconn wanted to make an OHA phone in their own name, they'd have to be an OHA member, which would mean they couldn't produce BB10 phones. If Foxconn OEM'd a phone for someone else, that company would have to be an OHA member in order to get Google Services, etc.

    Google has $65 BILLION in cash alone, and is worth hundreds of billions. Does anyone think that their lawyers are going to miss obvious ploys like this?

    And even if they did, they'd simply update the rules. The OHA rules apply to ALL companies who want Google Services, and there are currently over 200 manufacturers who are members, and every one of them would have a fit if some other company got to break the rules. Why in the world would Google break them for BB and BB10, which has 0.1% marketshare (and falling)? Because Crackberrians want them too? LOL.
    How does one explain that Tizen can run Android apps and Samsung, who is distributing Tizen phones, is an OHA member?


    Posted via CB10
    06-19-15 07:39 AM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Instead of trying to create legal loop holes.... why wouldn't BlackBerry just kill of BB10. It's not like it is creating revenues for them. The point of having your own OS was the control if gave you, but more importantly the revenues you would generate from App and Content sales.
    jojo beaconsfield and Witmen like this.
    06-19-15 07:40 AM
  18. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I've been waiting for this forever. Get the Android runtime off of my BB10 phone. This is great news for BB10 fans. Simplification of the OS.

    Bring on BB-Android. And the cleansed BB10!

    Posted via CB10

    That's the spirit!
    Unadulterated BB10 appeals to the purist in me too.
    This is something the fans could rally behind.
    And the Blackberry marketing department will do just about what you would expect.

    Possible slogan...

    "Skip the 'apps' and get to the main course!"

    or

    "Skip the 'apps' and get down to business!"
    deadcowboy likes this.
    06-19-15 07:41 AM
  19. dguy123's Avatar
    Right - this is the bit people seem unable or unwilling to get - the rules are whatever google says are the rules right upto the day you ship the phone
    Sounds like Google is well into building their 'walled garden' Apple is so often chastised for by the Android and BlackBerry folks.
    Suppose that's why so many apps that don't need Google play services are built so they won't run without them.

    Remember when Google wasn't evil? I do. I miss those days.


    Posted via CB10
    DarkJoker33 and nick13b like this.
    06-19-15 07:43 AM
  20. Witmen's Avatar
    How does one explain that Tizen can run Android apps and Samsung, who is distributing Tizen phones, is an OTA member?


    Posted via CB10
    Does Tizen devices ship with the ability to do that straight out of the box or does the end users need to download something separately to enable the ability to run Android apps?

    It isn't some great mystery. Tizen requires the use of third party software to run Android apps. On the other hand, BB10 ships with Android apps pre-installed and in BlackBerry World.

    I don't see why it is hard for people to figure this stuff out.
    06-19-15 07:51 AM
  21. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Does Tizen devices ship with the ability to do that straight out of the box or does the end users need to download something separately to enable the ability to run Android apps?

    It isn't some great mystery. Tizen requires the use of third party software to run Android apps. On the other hand, BB10 ships with Android apps pre-installed and in BlackBerry World.

    I don't see why it is hard for people to figure this stuff out.
    That's interesting. So, if I'm reading that correctly, you download an app from Tizen's app store that allows you to run Android apps? So in theory BlackBerry could decouple the runtime from BB10 but allow it to be downloaded separately?

    Of course they could also fork Android and users who were so inclined could just sideload Google apks. Be interesting to see if you can root a BlackBerry Android device in any event.
    06-19-15 08:04 AM
  22. Jerry A's Avatar
    Sounds like Google is well into building their 'walled garden' Apple is so often chastised for by the Android and BlackBerry folks.
    Suppose that's why so many apps that don't need Google play services are built so they won't run without them.

    Remember when Google wasn't evil? I do. I miss those days.


    Posted via CB10
    Actually, a lot of app developers are integrating with Google Play Services because they're tired of seeing their apps pirated or being distributed via grey market stores.

    How is Google being evil (in this case), by providing developers a way to protect their hard work and IP?
    06-19-15 08:08 AM
  23. Witmen's Avatar
    That's interesting. So, if I'm reading that correctly, you download an app from Tizen's app store that allows you to run Android apps? So in theory BlackBerry could decouple the runtime from BB10 but allow it to be downloaded separately?

    Of course they could also fork Android and users who were so inclined could just sideload Google apks. Be interesting to see if you can root a BlackBerry Android device in any event.
    As far as I know and have read (I don't own a Tizen device for the record), the only way to run Android apps on Tizen is to install a Android compatibility layer that is made by a company called OpenMobile.

    BlackBerry could and should do it the same way, but I believe BlackBerry might still need a third party to come along and provide the Android support.

    Samsung didn't make Tizen run Android apps. OpenMobile did.
    anon(9353145) likes this.
    06-19-15 08:12 AM
  24. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    As far as I know and have read (I don't own a Tizen device for the record), the only way to run Android apps on Tizen is to install a Android compatibility layer that is made by a company called OpenMobile.

    BlackBerry could and should do it the same way, but I believe BlackBerry might still need a third party to come along and provide the Android support.

    Samsung didn't make Tizen run Android apps. OpenMobile did.
    Yeah, just glanced at their website. They provide one for WebOS as well. So that would be a possible avenue to explore if they're keeping BB10 alive.
    Witmen likes this.
    06-19-15 08:21 AM
  25. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Okay back to the BlackBerry Samsung partnership concepts. Can't we dream Troy?! Can't we?? Lol. Always coming in here with your logic...

    Posted via CB10
    Lol... Troy never fails.

    I wonder if BlackBerry could then sue Google for unequally/discriminatorily applying rules. I'm sure someone could argue that due to Android's insurmountable market share their inclusion rules should be subject to some sort of common carrier regulation.


    Posted via CB10
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    06-19-15 08:46 AM
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