12-03-14 07:03 AM
47 12
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  1. Old_Mil's Avatar
    Given that the NSA was already caught monitoring Merkel's cell phone it is a wonder that the Germans haven't entirely banned US sourced tech from their borders. This is an understandable request.
    Rjinswand likes this.
    11-29-14 06:07 AM
  2. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    You may remember that BlackBerry bought the German company SECUSMART that modified BB10 for use by the German Government. According to the article liked to below (in German) the deal gets approved because BlackBerry grants access to the BB10 source.

    What to think of this? Where will this end? Every country will want to see the code and then try to find security holes ...

    Source:
    Article
    Not really, tbh out of all the nations who were spied on out there... Germany was the only one who reacted this far and took it this far! Probably the fact they are a economical powerhouse in the EU and they are dragging the EU along. I don't think they would use this as a opportunity to break BB security, more like patch it up on a larger scale and look for vulnerabilities.
    11-29-14 08:11 AM
  3. THBW's Avatar
    Not really, tbh out of all the nations who were spied on out there... Germany was the only one who reacted this far and took it this far! Probably the fact they are a economical powerhouse in the EU and they are dragging the EU along. I don't think they would use this as a opportunity to break BB security, more like patch it up on a larger scale and look for vulnerabilities.
    Sorry, but this level of rationalization is completely wrong. Germany is a close friend of the US and their has always been an informal agreement as to the electronic targeting of political players. It's because it is these people that need to implicitly trust one another. Transnational, multi lateral negotiations are complex and spying destroys that relationship. We are not talking some low level ministerial flunkies. It is an unmitigated disaster that I dare say will take a decade to repair.

    Posted via CB10
    11-29-14 10:10 AM
  4. raino's Avatar
    BBM source code not audited, as pointed out by the EFF=bad bad bad
    BB10 source code audited (with no indication of underlying encryption compromised)=bad bad bad

    #blackburycrewlogic. Gotta love it.
    mnc76 and The Big Picture like this.
    11-29-14 10:14 AM
  5. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    Sorry, but this level of rationalization is completely wrong. Germany is a close friend of the US and their has always been an informal agreement as to the electronic targeting of political players. It's because it is these people that need to implicitly trust one another. Transnational, multi lateral negotiations are complex and spying destroys that relationship. We are not talking some low level ministerial flunkies. It is an unmitigated disaster that I dare say will take a decade to repair.

    Posted via CB10
    Ally? Ally doesn't mean much in this world of now. Everyone will spy on everyone because everyone wants to know everyones business. That is the state of the world today, trust is not in the equation anymore because even Ally's spy on each other to keep on top of things. But the only spying agency to have been caught this bad is the NSA.

    I will probably catch some flak for this but even the US is ignorant as anything. Going around the world being its peacekeeper isn't doing any good for her own integrity, she's not seen as a powerhouse as she was before. Being most powerful doesn't mean to hold a dictator like position over the world, even the best dictatorships we're overthrown at a point.

    Anyways that's going way off this topic, BB10 opening its source code can be a bad thing but also a good thing. Germany relationship has deteriorated with the US over NSA agreed? BB10 is used by most government agencies in Germany agreed? Wouldn't it be in their own best interests to beef up the security to the platform shes using? That is logical. Yes, she can abuse and misuse the trust placed by BlackBerry but don't you think NSA and other government agencies are taking cracks at the BlackBerry infrastructure? Everything right now BlackBerry is pushing out is cloud based using their NOC's, if the NOC's are infiltrated how would you know? It is impossible to know unless these agencies point out where the holes are.

    Now finally let me end this, no superpower wants to know what you and your wife have planned for this evening. To any single individual unless they were in a position of power. Yes I see people in power do exist and do use the BB platform but how much protection can you provide to such a large user base. In hacker terms 'everything is hackable, the only matter is how long'. Don't you think every security team tries staying ahead, but with such a large amount of brains on this planet, it is impossible to actually predict and even patch some holes because of the ingenuity of some of this holes. You read the news and what people say about security holes? Food for thought... Imagine that one person who cracked it and never told anyone...
    11-29-14 10:54 AM
  6. mornhavon's Avatar
    We all remember the disastrous introduction of the Android platform to the German government. In less than two days, the NSA was directly reading Merkel's mobile communications.
    Some of us "remember" differently than others. I thought her work BlackBerry Z10 (BB10), her work Samsung Galaxy S III (Android), and even her personal LG Optimus One (Android) had no indication of being compromised, and that it was her personal Nokia Slide (Symbian) that was tapped.
    Source: http://m.theatlantic.com/internation...phones/280913/

    If you have a source for your version of events, I'd be very interested in it.
    11-29-14 12:15 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Just read the New York Times dude. There has been at least a dozen articles in the last six months documenting the relationship between Google, apple, the NSA and the white house. They meet twice a month in Washington to coordinate activities . Do you not read popular media?
    They meet because the government sends thousands of National Security Letters and Requests For Information to Google, Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, and, yes, to BlackBerry! But these companies don't simply turn over whatever is asked of them - in many cases, they require additional information or ask for a more limited scope, because they're trying to protect their users. Oh, the horror! Why would standard legal/administrative meetings suddenly become conspiracies?

    Google has spent about a hundred million dollars this last year on security and encryption efforts to develop systems to keep 100% of their data encrypted even within Google because the NSA hacked through their firewall and got into Google's systems (the encryption was normally removed once inside Google to aid backups and to allow multiple applications access to the data). Going forward, everything will be encrypted all the time, even internally.

    Have you not figured out why countries like China actually ban the full operations of Apple's iCloud? Or how about Brazil and the way it restricts Google's operations in their country. These things happen for a reason and it centers on electronic monitoring and the NSA. Time to get out of that cave and to look around.
    It's actually more that these countries don't have access to the user data, and especially in the case of China, don't want their citizens to have any privacy from the government. Most major US-based services are blocked from China for this reason.

    Again, it's easy to slip into Conspiracy Mode, but the truth is that all of this "evidence" has much more mundane explanations.
    mornhavon likes this.
    11-29-14 12:50 PM
  8. mornhavon's Avatar
    Google has spent about a hundred million dollars this last year on security and encryption efforts to develop systems to keep 100% of their data encrypted even within Google because the NSA hacked through their firewall and got into Google's systems (the encryption was normally removed once inside Google to aid backups and to allow multiple applications access to the data).
    Further to this, it wasn't even that the NSA found a way to truly hack into Google's systems, the NSA got Level 3 to let them physically tap into the fibre optic cables connecting Google's data centres internally without Google's knowledge. Now that even internal traffic is encrypted, even techniques like that won't yield results.
    11-29-14 01:21 PM
  9. BCITMike's Avatar
    Another hilarious thread.

    Has any other tech player granted any government access to their mobile OS source code.

    I'd like to see ANY evidence anyone besides BlackBerry, desperate for partners wherever it can find them(Samsung?!), has ever handed their source over to any government.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    This isn't the kind of thing you press release. No one has to provide diddly to you. If you're not familiar with large deals with countries and large companies, that's your problem. Source code is shared under NDA and escrow all the time. It's there so if the company goes belly up, they are not dependent on them for critical infrastructure or services.
    mnc76 and BanffMoose like this.
    11-29-14 03:40 PM
  10. collinc93's Avatar
    wow this thread...Defenders of the Earth!! German government gets access to the BB10 source code-download.jpg
    11-29-14 04:16 PM
  11. Bungalow_Bill's Avatar
    LOL. Our side?
    The German government has allowed the sale of company that will benefit the security of at least some, and hopefully all, BlackBerry customers. I and most other BlackBerry owners (our side) would like to reduce unlawful access to our devices by outside interests. What are you having trouble understanding?
    11-29-14 06:30 PM
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    The German government has allowed the sale of company that will benefit the security of at least some, and hopefully all, BlackBerry customers. I and most other BlackBerry owners (our side) would like to reduce unlawful access to our devices by outside interests. What are you having trouble understanding?

    How you believe Germany is somehow on your side.

    To be clear, you (and most other BlackBerry owners) believe Germany is striking a blow for the regular Joe?

    Interesting.
    sentimentGX4 and mornhavon like this.
    11-29-14 06:36 PM
  13. mornhavon's Avatar
    I don't think that this is a unique situation, Microsoft certainly allows governments that use their products to review their source code, and many other companies likely do the same under the right circumstances.

    However, I don't think anyone should be thinking of this as the equivalent of an audit, or that Germany is "on our side". As far as the code review goes, it seems to be entirely one-sided. BlackBerry gives Germany their source code, which Germany is allowed to hang onto (and receive updated copies of?) and BlackBerry must advise Germany of any known vulnerabilities as they arise. The German government seems to have no obligation whatsoever to make known any vulnerabilities they find, or anything else that would benefit BlackBerry or "our side". If they find something, they could easily use it to further secure their own systems alone and look to exploit it in other systems for their own benefit. An audit is controlled by the company and is done for the company's benefit, this isn't the same thing.
    11-29-14 08:44 PM
  14. Bungalow_Bill's Avatar
    How you believe Germany is somehow on your side.

    To be clear, you (and most other BlackBerry owners) believe Germany is striking a blow for the regular Joe?

    Interesting.
    Well, it's quite simple. There are some people trying to gain illegal access to our devices. There are some people like me who would like to prevent that. The sale of a company along with its technologies helps the latter rather than the former. I didn't say anything about striking blows. I merely pointed out that the German government's decision made it easier for BlackBerry to increase its security for at least some of its customers. It's possible that it could help all its customers but if it helps even some then it's a positive development.

    Two attempts to explain myself are all I'm going to put into this. Healthy skepticism is one thing but I consider that level of cynicism to be too toxic.

    Posted via CB10
    11-29-14 09:17 PM
  15. kfh227's Avatar
    Lockheed Martin enhanced Obama phone to have better encryption. I guess that means that they got the source code also.

    Posted via CB10
    11-30-14 05:52 AM
  16. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Two attempts to explain myself are all I'm going to put into this. Healthy skepticism is one thing but I consider that level of cynicism to be too toxic.

    Posted via CB10
    If you place trust in and think a foreign government is on your side, you are sipping serious Kool-Aid. There is always a political agenda and the good will of a foreign government pretty much goes against every event in history.
    11-30-14 07:11 PM
  17. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    I don't think that this is a unique situation, Microsoft certainly allows governments that use their products to review their source code, and many other companies likely do the same under the right circumstances.

    However, I don't think anyone should be thinking of this as the equivalent of an audit, or that Germany is "on our side". As far as the code review goes, it seems to be entirely one-sided. BlackBerry gives Germany their source code, which Germany is allowed to hang onto (and receive updated copies of?) and BlackBerry must advise Germany of any known vulnerabilities as they arise. The German government seems to have no obligation whatsoever to make known any vulnerabilities they find, or anything else that would benefit BlackBerry or "our side". If they find something, they could easily use it to further secure their own systems alone and look to exploit it in other systems for their own benefit. An audit is controlled by the company and is done for the company's benefit, this isn't the same thing.
    Emphasis added ^

    Sure Germany is "on our side", they are a most valuable NATO partner. :-)

    ? ? ? Zzzzwipetyped from The Maskport - Zzzzmoqin'.... ? ? ?
    12-01-14 01:53 AM
  18. mornhavon's Avatar
    Sure Germany is "on our side", they are a most valuable NATO partner. :-)
    Indeed, I have nothing against Germany as a nation or as an ally, my post was only referring to their review of BlackBerry's source code being one-sided. But I'm sure you're just pulling my leg ;-)
    12-01-14 06:59 AM
  19. PaulJosaph's Avatar
    thanks got it .
    12-01-14 07:55 AM
  20. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Indeed, I have nothing against Germany as a nation or as an ally, my post was only referring to their review of BlackBerry's source code being one-sided. But I'm sure you're just pulling my leg ;-)
    Correct. Leg pulled. Just a little, so it doesn't hurt. ;-)

    If they (re)view the source code, but don't report back on issues, it's just for their reassurance that BB10 doesn't contain any spyware, backdoors etc.

    If they reported back on a continual basis, it would be more like an open-source project, wouldn't it? With Bugzilla reports, Bugfest, etc... hahaha :-))



    ? ? ? Zzzzwipetyped from The Maskport - Zzzzmoqin'.... ? ? ?
    12-01-14 10:23 PM
  21. clickitykeys's Avatar
    Apple and Google have actively colluded with the NSA to provide backdoor access via their phone source code and their servers to spy on people, particularly in foreign countries. It is disgusting behavior and it hasn't stopped. Don't even get me started about encryption keys and whether Apple has provided then, free of charge to the NSA. Can't get a straight answer out of either when this question is asked.
    This is the delusional rantings that make everyone here look bad. Of course, you have some evidence for all this, right? Because if this was true, why would these countries (or our own) continue to use these companies' products?
    Actually, as far as the facts go, THBW is correct with respect to Google at least. The collusion, sharing of product specifications and software is well-documented, and not at all a secret. You could disagree with his interpretation of whether it is disgusting or not, but facts are facts.

    For a pretty comprehensive article, with background information on the Chinese Aurora hacking scandal that caused Google and NSA to collude in the first place, check out:

    Google?s secret NSA alliance: The terrifying deals between Silicon Valley and the security state - Salon.com
    Last edited by clickitykeys; 12-03-14 at 12:23 AM.
    12-02-14 09:23 PM
  22. THBW's Avatar
    They meet because the government sends thousands of National Security Letters and Requests For Information to Google, Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, and, yes, to BlackBerry! But these companies don't simply turn over whatever is asked of them - in many cases, they require additional information or ask for a more limited scope, because they're trying to protect their users. Oh, the horror! Why would standard legal/administrative meetings suddenly become conspiracies?

    Google has spent about a hundred million dollars this last year on security and encryption efforts to develop systems to keep 100% of their data encrypted even within Google because the NSA hacked through their firewall and got into Google's systems (the encryption was normally removed once inside Google to aid backups and to allow multiple applications access to the data). Going forward, everything will be encrypted all the time, even internally.



    It's actually more that these countries don't have access to the user data, and especially in the case of China, don't want their citizens to have any privacy from the government. Most major US-based services are blocked from China for this reason.

    Again, it's easy to slip into Conspiracy Mode, but the truth is that all of this "evidence" has much more mundane explanations.
    Okay Troy,
    Why don't you wander over to the New York Times today and read the technology section entitled article "hacked vs Hackers. It does a excellent job at debunking your general thesis on many angles.
    Instead of reflexively defending American Tech companies, you should be irrate about their sloppy behavior and incompetent handling of security. As noted in the article, American Tech companies have lost access to 25 percent of all cloud activity and the rate is increasing. Companies and countries are shutting out US tech. And yes, they talk about how the NSA has run roughshod over Google, Yahoo, Microsoft servers.

    As pointed out in the article, none of this is new. What was new was that the typical patch and pray approach, that you passively advocate is completely inadequate with dealing with the problem. And of courses, American Tech is losing out big time because of their sloppy behavior and collision with the NSA.

    This brings me to my final point. Eric Schmitt and Tim Cook along their chief lieutenants don't fly to Washington on a bi-weekly basis to deal with flunky work. You are simply not grasping the seriousness of the issue and are deflecting the extent of collaboration. Instead of defending this behavior, it is time to wake up, educate yourself and do some thing about it.

    Posted via CB10
    12-03-14 07:03 AM
47 12

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