11-25-14 02:03 AM
66 123
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  1. Banco's Avatar
    Ultimately the accountability lies in your hands, that is totally correct.

    But let's imagine (and I don't think that this is the case and I obviously hope that it'll never be the case) that your company hasn't left the reds in 10 years.
    In my country, the tax office will then send you a letter that they appreciate your efforts, but that you can stop deducting taxes on everything that has to do with said company.
    Simply said, in such a scenario, you were too unsuccessful for the tax office.

    Another example:
    You are around the break even point for 10 years now. That's probably successful enough for the tax office, and maybe even for yourself, but pretty much everyone else would just discount your success as being meaningless, because the whole point of a business, to make meaningful amounts of money, hasn't been met.

    Which doesn't mean that I don't agree with you.
    When your business is successful, and you more or less meet your defined target, you are obviously successful, in your own right, and screw the others.
    Publicly traded companies sadly/luckily don't have it that easy though.



    Posted via CB10
    Ha. In my business if I'm in the red ten years in a row, I'm just bankrupt! Much simpler!

    But I don't think HMRC work that way over here for what it's worth.


    Posted via CB10
    11-03-14 08:45 AM
  2. willm's Avatar
    Yet another writer that thinks Blackberrys balance sheet relies solely on the handset business...

    Crack-a-lackin' since '08
    11-03-14 08:45 AM
  3. anon1727506's Avatar
    The only problem with the articles author, and some here is that BlackBerry isn't in the same league or market as Samsung and Apple anymore. Chen want's to sell 10 Million phones a year... Huawei, Lenovo and LG all shipped between 12 and 14 million units each quarter.

    It's the problem of once being the industry leader and now being a nobody. BlackBerry is a SMALL niche player that is focusing on the highly regulated industries. BlackBerry's is pretty much DONE in the consumer market - except for a few 100K hardcore fans, even areas where last year they were still at 20% or 30% marketshare last year are quickly slipping away due to much lower cost devices, or devices that do what consumers want better than a BlackBerry can. The Z3 didn't do anything to change that, and I don't see a few extra buttons on the Classic having much effect on those markets either. BES12 along with business and governments that require the level of security and control that BlackBerry has, and that are willing to put their faith in BlackBerry still being in business over the next few years (hard to do with Lenovo rumors) are their future.

    And the Passport... some here believe that it is chasing the iPhone and Galaxy devices down..... 200K in the first few days and then sellouts, are great, but you are still taking about a total different league. I would be surprised if they make it past a million passports in a year. Which would be great for BlackBerry, but far from the 100 million some expect just from the iPhone Plus.

    Doesn't mean they can't make smartphones, sell them and make a profit.... just that they are no longer deserving of a spot as a major factor in the smartphone market anymore. Of course they hope to be much more than a smartphone manufacture in the future.....
    11-03-14 09:17 AM
  4. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    Blackberry needs to do two things.

    Bring in new people (looks like passport and Z30 can do that)
    Keep current users happy ( passport and classic can do that)

    Posted via CB10
    I was very tempted to buy the BlackBerry Passport, however, in light of the absence of numeric and punctuation keys on the physical keyboard I will not be upgrading from my BlackBerry Q5. The square screen of the Q5 would not be any better with the Passport so watching videos, mostly educational in nature, would not be a pleasant visual experience. Many 16x9 videos get chopped-off on my Q5 so I end up firing up my Z10 whose battery life became terrible only a year after purchase in 2013.
    11-03-14 09:25 AM
  5. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Chen want's to sell 10 Million phones a year... Huawei, Lenovo and LG all shipped between 12 and 14 million units each quarter.

    It's the problem of once being the industry leader and now being a nobody. BlackBerry is a SMALL niche player that is focusing on the highly regulated industries.
    ...but BlackBerry has the dubious distinction of having the exposure of a much larger company, and a unique offering. what miracle will occur that will make Samsung bleed 50% of its device sales to HTC, LG or Huawei or Sony? And specifically to any single one of them as opposed to just fragmenting all the Android device vendors into dozens of 10-million-device-per-year companies? In short, there's Samsung, and everyone else.

    ...and coming up from the bottom you have Firefox OS poised to disrupt the low end, further eroding the possibility that the Android also-rans have a hope of significant profits.

    BlackBerry has unique, excellent technology and patents and will probably be acquired as soon as one of the also rans realize they've got little hope of offering truly disruptive change to the smartphone landscape... but if Samsung is a smart as their leading position indicates, they'll be the ones to do it. If Dell wants to stay relevant for the next 10 years, they too might consider it, but this topic isn't about BlackBerry's future, it's about an article authored by a professional lacking the insights of us amateurs.
    11-03-14 09:30 AM
  6. THBW's Avatar
    Ha. In my business if I'm in the red ten years in a row, I'm just bankrupt! Much simpler!

    But I don't think HMRC work that way over here for what it's worth.


    Posted via CB10
    Nah, you just have to think more creatively. First thing I would do, if you already haven't, is move to the US where you can take full advantage of their more aggressive, forward looking accounting standards. The move alone allows you to value your physical assets higher. I'm sure your well known in your industry which means your name has worth which can be placed on the balance sheet. Now cut back on depreciation and maintenance (a very logical move given that the increased value of your physical assets means the equipment must be new). Your are now a lean mean business machine. As your equipment has to be in a building and you might own the land, you can spin this off into a REIT. The parent company nows pays rent which can be deducted from taxes. Since your clearly a business leader with one venture leading to a second profitable business, you and your parent are even more valuable and that needs to be included on the balance sheet. Investors will be crawling out of the wood work . But it gets better, given that the parent company is now showing unprecedented growth and your name quite valuable, there will be people clamoring to advertise on your company website. And the first advertiser will be your own REIT which isn't only deducting the expense from taxes but showing full faith in the parent company's new direction. Only one thing left to do, go for an IPO and let those new shareholders participate in your overriding success. Well done, sir.

    Posted via CB10
    Banco likes this.
    11-03-14 10:04 AM
  7. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    what miracle will occur that will make Samsung bleed 50% of its device sales to HTC, LG or Huawei or Sony? And specifically to any single one of them as opposed to just fragmenting all the Android device vendors into dozens of 10-million-device-per-year companies? In short, there's Samsung, and everyone else.
    I think that you misunderstood Scalemaster here and the market realities:
    There are no 10M a year Android manufacturers, apart from maybe Oneplus and Oppo.
    They all sell at least 10M a quarter. A quarter, not a year. So if Samsung loses customers to those manufacturers, even in a fragmented way, they will still sell more than 10M a quarter.

    The second thing you don't seem to account for, is that Samsung very probably won't lose a lot of customers to Sony, LG or HTC.
    They will however, lose huge amounts of customers to cheaper chinese alternatives like Huawei, ZTE, OnePlus, Xiaomi etc.
    Those manufacturers make you a Galaxy S5 with better hardware quality, for half the price. They are ambitious, they dominate in their homeland and they want to break into international markets.

    Then you have local Android manufacturers, especially in emerging markets, like Micromax in India or Smartfren in Indonesia.
    Those are the guys Samsung has to fear and Samsung will have to fight the price war if they want to stay relevant in those markets.

    ...and coming up from the bottom you have Firefox OS poised to disrupt the low end, further eroding the possibility that the Android also-rans have a hope of significant profits.
    Firefox OS will very probably disrupt exactly nothing.
    And low-end Androids cost something of around 70$ nowadays, while those prices will very probably fall even further.
    But I am curious to see what will happen with that OS (even though I highly doubt that it'll have any impact).


    BlackBerry has unique, excellent technology and patents and will probably be acquired as soon as one of the also rans realize they've got little hope of offering truly disruptive change to the smartphone landscape...
    There very probably won't be any meaningful change in the smartphone sector anymore.
    It basically is a commodised market already and it starts to get saturated as well.
    The next "revolution" will be price.
    And then there will be "the next big thing". But yeah, smartphone innovation is basically dead.

    . but if Samsung is a smart as their leading position indicates, they'll be the ones to do it. If Dell wants to stay relevant for the next 10 years, they too might consider it, but this topic isn't about BlackBerry's future, it's about an article authored by a professional lacking the insights of us amateurs.
    Your fanboyism sadly clouds your vision.
    Nobody of those guys needs BlackBerry for anything.

    However, I agree that the author seems to be misinformed.
    The things I said are the real reasons why BlackBerry's future as a phone manufacturer doesn't look promising.

    Simply put:
    They are totally uncompetitive with their current portfolio and strategy.
    At least if they ever want to leave the break-even zone.


    Posted via CB10
    techvisor likes this.
    11-03-14 10:10 AM
  8. Banco's Avatar
    Nah, you just have to think more creatively. First thing I would do, if you already haven't, is move to the US where you can take full advantage of their more aggressive, forward looking accounting standards. The move alone allows you to value your physical assets higher. I'm sure your well known in your industry which means your name has worth which can be placed on the balance sheet. Now cut back on depreciation and maintenance (a very logical move given that the increased value of your physical assets means the equipment must be new). Your are now a lean mean business machine. As your equipment has to be in a building and you might own the land, you can spin this off into a REIT. The parent company nows pays rent which can be deducted from taxes. Since your clearly a business leader with one venture leading to a second profitable business, you and your parent are even more valuable and that needs to be included on the balance sheet. Investors will be crawling out of the wood work . But it gets better, given that the parent company is now showing unprecedented growth and your name quite valuable, there will be people clamoring to advertise on your company website. And the first advertiser will be your own REIT which isn't only deducting the expense from taxes but showing full faith in the parent company's new direction. Only one thing left to do, go for an IPO and let those new shareholders participate in your overriding success. Well done, sir.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm thinking of sacking my accountant now...

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    11-03-14 10:23 AM
  9. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I'm thinking of sacking my accountant now...

    Posted via CB10
    If he doesn't know how to perform a double irish with a dutch sandwich, you probably should.
    Oth, Ireland seems to want to up their taxes.

    Also, even though I laughed a lot because of his post, it's not THAT easy.
    (yeah, I know that you know that, but some people might think that they just discovered a way to get rich thanks to THBW)

    Posted via CB10
    11-03-14 10:33 AM
  10. Banco's Avatar
    If he doesn't know how to perform a double irish with a dutch sandwich, you probably should.
    Oth, Ireland seems to want to up their taxes.

    Also, even though I laughed a lot because of his post, it's not THAT easy.
    (yeah, I know that you know that, but some people might think that they just discovered a way to get rich thanks to THBW)

    Posted via CB10
    Be nice if it was!

    Don't think Ireland will increase their corporation tax though, it's the one thing that's kept them afloat the last five years. The rest of mainland Europe keeps trying to put pressure on them to do so, and they've rightly told them to get stuffed. Besides, it's good for me as the impact is that it forces the UK to lower our own CT rate.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    11-03-14 10:37 AM
  11. HighFlight88's Avatar
    A couple possibilities:

    1. The Forbes author failed to fully consider the intended market for the phone.
    2. Journalistic integrity has been compromised by obligations to promotional gifts or stock investments.

    I choose to believe that the writer has integrity but neglected to present the full picture, instead considering the Classic in isolation from overall BlackBerry marketing strategy. That said, he does present a valid warning to BlackBerry and its loyalists (myself included): in essence, "adapt to change and innovate, or die." The Classic is a transitional product, with a limited market. It will not save the company in the long term.

    Ewan Spence is a formidable contributor, and one needs to be prepared for a strong defence if leaving a comment on the article, as he is very hands-on and personally reads, and answers, the feedback to his articles. Prepare to back up your assertions with carefully worded fact if you don't want to appear the fool.

    Q10 ? The Other Crackberry Pirate ? Z30 | via CB10
    11-03-14 12:08 PM
  12. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I agree with the thesis that BlackBerry is still stuck in the past and hasn't learned what devices and what strategy they should adopt to finally be successful again with their handset business.
    I don't agree with the arguments presented though.
    If the world the Classic and the Z3 were the only new devices, I would agree. But he's forgetting the Passport. Even though it isn't "for me", one could argue that (and in fact, many bloggers and journalists have) that it's pretty innovative in terms of not trying to copy the iPhone look and to solve specific problems for a specific niche.

    I suppose you could claim "still focusing on business and keyboard", but another way to look at it would be that they are playing to their strengths while bringing out a modern device in a market where they are stronger they they were when they did Z10.

    To me, Classic and Z3 were do-over devices to try again to accomplish what Q10 and Q5 didn't do (replace the 9900 and Curve). Passport is something pretty different.
    11-03-14 12:48 PM
  13. nt300's Avatar
    Clearly FORBS is stuck in the past. Lol,
    This is how out of tune people are. John Chen is releasing devices that differentiates BBRY from the competition for the time being.
    I am sure they will strike a deal with a company such as Lenovo for the general purpose device powered by BB10. Until then, they are attracting new customers.

    The one thing the author fails to understand is the Passport is not only highly innovative, it's a multimedia power house. An Everybody device.
    Typed on my Q5
    11-12-14 11:18 AM
  14. Hendrack's Avatar
    If true many will jump ship.
    Very very disappointed.
    11-24-14 02:05 PM
  15. abwan11's Avatar
    Blackberry has just started cooking, so I don't see why everyone is already trying to eat. The table hasn't been set. Relax, have a drink and a snack, and get your hands out of the pot. Your a guest, so please take a seat and enjoy, and don't be critical of the food.

    Like little children, run along now.

    Posted via CB10
    11-24-14 07:04 PM
  16. karaya1's Avatar
    Spence bashes BlackBerry any chance he gets. I knew from the headline who wrote that piece. He is one of the worst tech editors on the Internet. Why Forbes keeps him around is a mystery.

    Posted via CB10
    11-25-14 02:03 AM
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