02-04-14 03:52 AM
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  1. dbiv5445's Avatar
    But WHY??? What do they get out of it?
    It's human nature. People like to form groups and pick-out one certain group to sh^t on to make themselves feel better about their particular group. BlackBerry happens to be that group that's getting sh^tted on at the moment. If you like BlackBerry, who gives a flying f*** what other people think or write.
    01-28-14 03:02 PM
  2. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I can only give my opinion, and that is that BB10 is not selling well because when the average Joe turned in his flip phone and decided to give smartphones a go a few years ago there was no BBRY product that caught his eye. Now he has brand loyalty (something we understand here) to Apple or Android.
    I happen to believe that this is a big factor.

    I have two major needs in a daily driver: on the fly backups and Swype. I rely on these features to be productive. Swype allows me to type one-handed on any compatible mobile device with my unique personalized dictionary, for instance.

    Yes, I can change and adjust to BB10's excellent keyboard, but if I don't have to, why should I? I think this is a concern played out a lot. Be it iTunes, or Outlook, or Google Apps, or that unique app, people find it hard to switch from an ecosystem that has an anchor feature.
    01-28-14 03:02 PM
  3. TheoRadu's Avatar
    Just to be clear, Engadget doesn't influence my decision on what device to recommend to anyone. I'm not going to go around in circles about this.

    I have gone into carrier stores with a ton of people and literally none of them have shown interest in the BB10 devices.

    I've heard people say the KB was nice on the Q10 or whatever, but that's about it. The OS didn't interest them at all. For some of them, the confusing gesture-based UI was a complete turn-off for them.
    You don't get it. I'm not saying it is influencing your buying decisions, I'm saying it might. I don't know you so I can't be sure. All I know is that there are people like you and me reading these tech blogs and giving people advice. Some of us (I think most of us) might be influenced by sites like this. All those angry comments saying "BlackBerry should just die already" or "BlackBerry is a joke" are from people like us. They give people advice based on their feelings, not on facts.

    And of course people are not interested in buying or even trying a BlackBerry 10 device. To them BlackBerry are dead or dying. It doesn't matter what BlackBerry 10 can or can not do. When I was trying to find a Z30 in stock I had to sales reps telling me not to buy a BlackBerry because the company is almost dead. They didn't say anything about apps or features. Isn't the media to blame for this?
    Omnitech likes this.
    01-28-14 03:12 PM
  4. ajst222's Avatar
    BlackBerry 10 has more games. Hulu, Reddit and Netflix are only important in the US where WP8 has a tiny market share. Why is their market share 10-15% in Europe where nobody cares about these apps? And as I said, sales picked up long before most of those apps were released.
    As for games, BlackBerry 10 has more quality/popular games than WP8 at the moment.

    I think you meant to say OS6. Also, we are talking about BlackBerry 10 and WP 8. I think we all know what BlackBerry did wrong before announcing BlackBerry 10.
    The WP market share in the US is growing while BB's is shrinking and I disagree about the games. Maybe that's a regional thing but a good chunk of the top games on BlackBerry are unheard of.

    Nope I meant to say OS 5. But OS 6 was released at the same time as Windows Phone 7. And yes, maybe you didn't understand the relation even though you brought it up. BlackBerry waited for too long to release BB10 while Microsoft released theirs much sooner. BlackBerry waited so long that they lost relevance. By the time BB10 was released, no one cared. It wasn't and isn't truly different or better than what's out there. When Windows Phone was released, it WAS different from what was out there. Even if BlackBerry is on the right track, it took too long. Consumers don't care. That's the cold hard truth.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    JeepBB likes this.
    01-28-14 03:14 PM
  5. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    You don't get it. I'm not saying it is influencing your buying decisions, I'm saying it might. I don't know you so I can't be sure. All I know is that there are people like you and me reading these tech blogs and giving people advice. Some of us (I think most of us) might be influenced by sites like this. All those angry comments saying "BlackBerry should just die already" or "BlackBerry is a joke" are from people like us. They give people advice based on their feelings, not on facts.

    And of course people are not interested in buying or even trying a BlackBerry 10 device. To them BlackBerry are dead or dying. It doesn't matter what BlackBerry 10 can or can not do. When I was trying to find a Z30 in stock I had to sales reps telling me not to buy a BlackBerry because the company is almost dead. They didn't say anything about apps or features. Isn't the media to blame for this?
    And I'm saying it doesn't. I have more important things to do than to deceive people, and I tend to consider myself a "real friend" to my friends not someone who tells them what I'd like they to have based on my own personal agenda.

    Anyone can read our posts and clearly see that you and I aren't the same type of people when it comes to these things, so don't lump us into the same category. It's actually kind of insulting.

    I don't force people to buy specific types of phones and couldn't care less what platform they buy into. I am there to help them - them, not myself... and actually help them make an informed decision on a purchase they will be stuck with for 1.5-2 years time.

    The same way people bring friends with them when they go clothes shopping, car shopping, whatever. They ask me to tag along to help them out when they go shopping for tech products (smartphones, tablets, PCs, etc.).

    Thank you.

    No, the media isn't to blame for anything. The media reports what they're given, and Microsoft gave them little back in late 2010 and given how the market moved since then, BB gave them even less because they upgraded their hardware at the end of the "Spec Race era" but missed the jump to services so they're just as behind as they've always been.

    Hardware and OS is nothing but an enabler. It isn't the real deal anymore. Fighting over that is ridiculous. It's all about Services to rope in customers and retain them, and having the most innovative, highest quality apps in your app store.

    Interoperability with other device is also becoming a huge deal, and Blackberry is especially weak there.

    Services: Google > Microsoft > Apple >>>>>> Blackberry
    Apps: Apple >> Google >>>> Microsoft >>>>> Blackberry
    Interop: Microsoft >> Apple >>> Google >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blackberry

    I'm not telling a consumer with Google and Outlook.com/OneDrive services, Windows 8 PCs, an Xbox 360, a Smart TV, Wireless Printers, etc. to get a BB10 device. Like I said, that would be disingenuous and the only reason I'd do that is because I owned one and I wanted them to have what I have for my own convenience (one more BBM Buddy, An Actual Person to use BBM Voice/Video With, etc.). It makes no sense, especially when it also involves losing apps or having to repay for multiple paid apps or in-app purchases.
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 01-28-14 at 03:25 PM.
    Grumblegrumble and JeepBB like this.
    01-28-14 03:14 PM
  6. Grumblegrumble's Avatar
    I happen to believe that this is a big factor.

    I have two major needs in a daily driver: on the fly backups and Swype. I rely on these features to be productive. Swype allows me to type one-handed on any compatible mobile device with my unique personalized dictionary, for instance.

    Yes, I can change and adjust to BB10's excellent keyboard, but if I don't have to, why should I? I think this is a concern played out a lot. Be it iTunes, or Outlook, or Google Apps, or that unique app, people find it hard to switch from an ecosystem that has an anchor feature.

    Not to mention here, once you're invested, and I mean actually invested in any eco system. Its not only hard to switch, but usually is a costly thing beyond the base platform. I know people that literally have spend 100's of their dollars in a eco system for special remote apps (most not on BBW) integration with home devices. You can't say it wont cost extra at some point. Sideloading,special app store's are not even an option for your common consumer, just forget it.

    I do love my Z10, I really do- but some people really need to see the bigger picture here sometimes. Beyond the UI and "neat little tricks" the phone is very incomplete for a consumer drive, this isnt 2007 where it's still open and yet to be dialed in. Chen see's this, why cant some people?
    01-28-14 03:16 PM
  7. TheoRadu's Avatar
    I can only give my opinion, and that is that BB10 is not selling well because when the average Joe turned in his flip phone and decided to give smartphones a go a few years ago there was no BBRY product that caught his eye. Now he has brand loyalty (something we understand here) to Apple or Android.
    OK, I can understand that. But that's one age group. Every minute thousands of kids turn 16 and go out to buy a smartphone for the first time. They have no brand loyalty yet. Don't you think these people can be influenced by the media?
    Last edited by TheoRadu; 01-28-14 at 03:31 PM.
    01-28-14 03:20 PM
  8. TheoRadu's Avatar
    It's human nature. People like to form groups and pick-out one certain group to sh^t on to make themselves feel better about their particular group. BlackBerry happens to be that group that's getting sh^tted on at the moment. If you like BlackBerry, who gives a flying f*** what other people think or write.
    I care because the product I like and I find very efficient might disappear with articles like this one.
    Last edited by TheoRadu; 01-28-14 at 03:42 PM.
    01-28-14 03:21 PM
  9. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Not to mention here, once you're invested, and I mean actually invested in any eco system. Its not only hard to switch, but usually is a costly thing beyond the base platform. I know people that literally have spend 100's of their dollars in a eco system for special remote apps (most not on BBW) integration with home devices. You can't say it wont cost extra at some point. Sideloading,special app store's are not even an option for your common consumer, just forget it.

    I do love my Z10, I really do- but some people really need to see the bigger picture here sometimes. Beyond the UI and "neat little tricks" the phone is very incomplete for a consumer drive, this isnt 2007 where it's still open and yet to be dialed in. Chen see's this, why cant some people?
    This is all true send has been repeated here a ton. They don't get it, because a lot have always used predominately BB devices that gave them little opportunity, if any, to become that invested.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-28-14 03:27 PM
  10. Mr.Monty's Avatar
    So they focused on the free, unlimited, data-free, international radio streaming feature.

    If there's one thing I've learned from owning a BlackBerry, it's that these tech sites don't offer any more insight than the person on the sales floor of a big box retailer. This of course sucks because if I want to learn about a purchase I'm looking to make, but I don't know a lot about it, I'd like to have a source that has access to a wide range of products in that line without a bias interfering with their insight.
    01-28-14 03:37 PM
  11. TheoRadu's Avatar
    This is all true send has been repeated here a ton. They don't get it, because a lot have always used predominately BB devices that gave them little opportunity, if any, to become that invested.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Well BlackBerry 10 is a new platform and there was not enough time for people to become invested. That being said, I think most of us can understand this as we also have computers. Switching to a different OS can be expensive.

    However, this only applies to people who already have a smartphone. What about those people who used to have dumb phones? Or the kids who just turned 16? Are they not affected by the media?
    01-28-14 03:41 PM
  12. lynxs_claw's Avatar
    Come on guys .. it simply comes down to the media reporting the facts .. not the half facts and the half truths... they owe it to their readers to do the right thing. this time (like others) they didn't do the right thing...
    Omnitech likes this.
    01-28-14 03:42 PM
  13. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Well BlackBerry 10 is a new platform and there was not enough time for people to become invested. That being said, I think most of us can understand this as we also have computers. Switching to a different OS can be expensive.

    However, this only applies to people who already have a smartphone. What about those people who used to have dumb phones? Or the kids who just turned 16? Are they not affected by the media?
    They are more affected by their friends.

    Can't FaceTime from a blackberry, you know.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-28-14 03:49 PM
  14. jelp2's Avatar
    In their defense.. BlackBerry hasn't conjured up any kind of fan fare advertising their new features or promoting this update, so why should anyone else?
    BBRY is not going to advertise now that they are focused on enterprise.
    But Engaget should review the software as they would any other software if they want to be a tech site. There's no defense for them.
    Omnitech likes this.
    01-28-14 03:53 PM
  15. TheoRadu's Avatar
    They are more affected by their friends.

    Can't FaceTime from a blackberry, you know.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Yes, friends who are in turn influenced by the media. Who do you think posts uneducated comments on Engadget?
    01-28-14 03:56 PM
  16. kbz1960's Avatar
    Not to mention here, once you're invested, and I mean actually invested in any eco system. Its not only hard to switch, but usually is a costly thing beyond the base platform. I know people that literally have spend 100's of their dollars in a eco system for special remote apps (most not on BBW) integration with home devices. You can't say it wont cost extra at some point. Sideloading,special app store's are not even an option for your common consumer, just forget it.

    I do love my Z10, I really do- but some people really need to see the bigger picture here sometimes. Beyond the UI and "neat little tricks" the phone is very incomplete for a consumer drive, this isnt 2007 where it's still open and yet to be dialed in. Chen see's this, why cant some people?
    I don't know about Chen but they have said they are not promoting to consumers at this time. They are not their target. It's people like us but there are a lot of us that moved on too. I'm still holding onto my 9850. Not because I don't like BB10 or because I like legacy so much, in fact I've been ready for something different from a legacy blackberry. Heck my carrier at this time doesn't even offer any BB10 phone, only a curve. There is no rumor of them ever having one but hey they now have the iPhone for the first tome ever. I'm not interested in that either.

    I'm thinking about a Z30 or a WP8. Android, a third distant. Maybe I gravitate to underdogs? That can't be it I never owned an apple product when they were. I must just like punishment
    pantlesspenguin and ubizmo like this.
    01-28-14 03:58 PM
  17. kbz1960's Avatar
    So they focused on the free, unlimited, data-free, international radio streaming feature.

    If there's one thing I've learned from owning a BlackBerry, it's that these tech sites don't offer any more insight than the person on the sales floor of a big box retailer. This of course sucks because if I want to learn about a purchase I'm looking to make, but I don't know a lot about it, I'd like to have a source that has access to a wide range of products in that line without a bias interfering with their insight.
    I go more by user reviews. Throw the OMG best ever blah and It's a POS reviews out and see what's in between. And then use one for a bit in a store. Can't even do that with a Z30 around here.
    pantlesspenguin and Mr.Monty like this.
    01-28-14 04:02 PM
  18. G-malien's Avatar
    Do not agree!
    Why do they describe and write about developer features for ios betas?

    And beside this "APK" Feature, there are a LOT of features which are not available in this form at ios or android.
    Thats the worst excuse for not naming this feature.

    and at last: laughing about FM Radio ist like laughing about RS 232 UART ... (and that is what engadget did in its post)
    think about it.
    speed reading without glasses proves to be quite amusing sometimes... i read it as R2 D2 FART and it occurred to me that that the little guy *does* make noises that could be construed as droid incontinence!
    kbz1960 likes this.
    01-28-14 04:04 PM
  19. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    OK, I can understand that. But that's one age group. Every minute thousands of kids turn 16 and go out to buy a smartphone for the first time. They have no brand loyalty yet. Don't you think these people can be influenced by the media?
    That is a good and valid point, one that probably led BBRY to hire Alicia Keyes as some sort of "youth ambassador". However, I think this is where the "app gap" came into play. Developers wrote apps that appealed to youth almost exclusively for other brands. Once the trend-setter kids had their hands on these phones, peer pressure influenced the other kids to have the same phone.

    Who knows? Maybe a character will appear in a movie or TV show with a BBRY in the future and suddenly teenagers will embrace the brand. These trends are almost impossible to predict.
    01-28-14 04:08 PM
  20. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Yes, friends who are in turn influenced by the media. Who do you think posts uneducated comments on Engadget?
    People from here and places like here who flock there to defend their platform of choice. Did you miss the countless call to arms in this forum?

    And there are well known trolls like "Norm" who stir the poor there, of course.

    Kids are too busy posting selfishness and deserts on instagram to care for that. They don't make purchases. They tell parents what want and get it, therefore they have less need to be informed. They only need to be influenced by their peers and society as a whole, both of which have moved on from BlackBerry.

    Also, even adults have largely moved onto Android and iOS so those kids without a say get that, just like the guy on this forum who got their kid a Z30 and refused to exchange it for an iPhone.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-28-14 04:11 PM
  21. Playbook007's Avatar
    We gave them a blast. Nice to see Blaze there also.....everyone should swing by and give Engadget a wake up call. BB10 is on the move. what a great day for BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    01-28-14 04:31 PM
  22. SDTRMG's Avatar
    It surprise's me how much these none bb10 using(or owning) users are in the forums, I mean I know it's a forum for everybody, but it seems like the same 15 people go thread to thread knocking BlackBerry users for what they like about there devices, or what there devices can/cant do etc, over and over.

    And it's always the same user's, get a life and let people enjoy there devices.

    I remember when you can run windows apps on a mac everyone praised it, and it became.even better when you could run windows on it.

    Fast-forward to 2014 and you can run and load android apps on your bb10 device and people really try claim it's a bad thing? Lol.

    I'm actually happy I have access to snap, amazon, 1mobile and BlackBerry World. I'm glad I have one of the first devices to every run native and android apps.

    There is no downside, especially when BlackBerry World fills up and I have access to a extremely large amount of apps.

    Z30 - The Final Destination - Winnipeg Mb Clothing|Footwear|Headwear|Headshop|Tobacconist|Ta ttoos
    geoffsdad and Omnitech like this.
    01-28-14 04:35 PM
  23. Playbook007's Avatar
    They are more affected by their friends.

    Can't FaceTime from a blackberry, you know.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    Can't face time with an android user either. However BBM soon will be able to BBM video android, iphones and already of course BlackBerry devices. Apple will never do that.

    Posted via CB10
    01-28-14 04:35 PM
  24. ajst222's Avatar
    It surprise me how much there none bb10 users are in the forums, I mean I know it's a forum for everybody, but it seems like the same 10 people go post to post knocking BlackBerry users for what they like about there devices, or what there devices can/cant do etc, over and over.

    And it's always the same user's, get a life and let people enjoy there devices.

    Z30 - The Final Destination - Winnipeg Mb Clothing|Footwear|Headwear|Headshop|Tobacconist|Ta ttoos
    It's also the same people over and over again constantly going on offensives saying how much better BB10 is than everything and how everything else sucks. It goes both ways.

    Photo a Day: C002B5A07, my amateur photography Channel
    01-28-14 04:36 PM
  25. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Can't face time with an android user either. However BBM soon will be able to BBM video android, iphones and already of course BlackBerry devices. Apple will never do that.

    Posted via CB10
    BBM doesn't matter to a bunch of kids with iPhone. That's my point. One person will not try to force something new a group of people. It's much easier to just join the pack and move on.

    Nevermind that is hardly the true advantage of the iOS ecosystem.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
    01-28-14 04:39 PM
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