02-14-15 11:36 PM
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  1. KR2013's Avatar
    There isn't one thing that BlackBerry has that is highly innovative and around which they could base an advertising campaign. Competitors are coming out with cool new tech with each generation. BlackBerry isn't. Sorry but that's just the way it is.
    I don't think the competitors are coming up with a lot of cool new tech that can be considered innovative either. As a matter of fact, I feel BlackBerry may have actually done more than some, but the problem is, for BlackBerry to be able to become popular again despite their weaker eco system, they need to do a lot lot more than the competitors. Otherwise, it will hard to convince the masses to risk leaving their current successful and comfortable platforms (e.g., Apple, Android) for something else that is just a little different!
    02-07-15 05:12 AM
  2. ADGrant's Avatar
    I don't think the competitors are coming up with a lot of cool new tech that can be considered innovative either. As a matter of fact, I feel BlackBerry may have actually done more than some, but the problem is, for BlackBerry to be able to become popular again despite their weaker eco system, they need to do a lot lot more than the competitors. Otherwise, it will hard to convince the masses to risk leaving their current successful and comfortable platforms (e.g., Apple, Android) for something else that is just a little different!
    For any platform including Windows, in order to succeed it has to do something much better than current platforms. Being a little different is never an advantage for a technology platform.

    On top of that problem, both BB and Microsoft have a certain amount of negative brand image amount consumers. In the case of BB, it's because of the employer provided locked down BB OS 7 devices. Microsoft OTOH has inflicted many awful versions of their OS on their customers.
    02-07-15 06:49 AM
  3. birdman_38's Avatar
    For any platform including Windows, in order to succeed it has to do something much better than current platforms.
    For any company to succeed, it has to do business much better than its competitors.
    02-07-15 06:47 PM
  4. crazigee's Avatar
    I don't think the competitors are coming up with a lot of cool new tech that can be considered innovative either. As a matter of fact, I feel BlackBerry may have actually done more than some, but the problem is, for BlackBerry to be able to become popular again despite their weaker eco system, they need to do a lot lot more than the competitors. Otherwise, it will hard to convince the masses to risk leaving their current successful and comfortable platforms (e.g., Apple, Android) for something else that is just a little different!
    Sure they are. Apple came out with a fingerprint reader. Sure, it's not life changing but it's cool. Samsung came out with tech that follows your eyes as you read to scroll automatically. Again, not life changing but very cool. It shows they're trying.

    BlackBerry hasn't done anything that is fun and cool. They've come out with a new take on a keyboard; a device that already only appeals to a small niche.

    BlackBerry need to start looking at cool tech and competitive specs.

     Posted using my Z30 via CB10 
    02-07-15 07:04 PM
  5. KR2013's Avatar
    Sure they are. Apple came out with a fingerprint reader. Sure, it's not life changing but it's cool. Samsung came out with tech that follows your eyes as you read to scroll automatically. Again, not life changing but very cool. It shows they're trying.

    BlackBerry hasn't done anything that is fun and cool. They've come out with a new take on a keyboard; a device that already only appeals to a small niche.

    BlackBerry need to start looking at cool tech and competitive specs.

     Posted using my Z30 via CB10 
    When discussing innovations, I was thinking more in line of something really big and revolutionary - or using your words, a "life changer". Yes, I agree that the things you have mentioned might generally be considered cool and fun, no argument there. The main point I was trying to make is that BlackBerry needs to offer something really really big that the competitors don't have, to be able to regain market share. Small innovations and improvements, or focusing on a small group of people, is not going cut it.
    02-07-15 08:24 PM
  6. ADGrant's Avatar
    For any company to succeed, it has to do business much better than its competitors.
    That is not true. In many fields a company can succeed being mediocre. Even in technology, Microsoft has frequently released crappy versions of Windows but they still dominate the desktop market because though Mac OS-X is better, its not game changer better. In mobile OTOH, the iPhone was a game changer so game over for Windows Mobile, Palm OS, BB OS7 and Nokia Symbian. Microsoft's and BB's new platforms are almost failures and WebOS was a complete failure (because it was actually worse than iOS or Android). Windows Mobile has been saved by Microsoft's deep pockets and Nokia's popularity in Europe. I suspect BB is being kept alive by BES & BIS licensing fees.
    02-07-15 08:46 PM
  7. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    The end of BlackBerry as we know it-img_20150206_085333_edit.png

    Most just want to be part of the "crowd"... followers... not trend setters....

    But there is a market for innovation and specialization.... otherwise everyone would drive a Ford...

    Posted via CB10
    02-07-15 08:47 PM
  8. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    PSA: not that anyone should derive uniqueness from using a smartphone, but being one of millions doesn't really make one more "unique" than someone that is one of tens of millions.

    In short? To use childish terms, a herd is a herd is a herd.

    Carry on.
    02-07-15 09:01 PM
  9. crazigee's Avatar
    When discussing innovations, I was thinking more in line of something really big and revolutionary - or using your words, a "life changer". Yes, I agree that the things you have mentioned might generally be considered cool and fun, no argument there. The main point I was trying to make is that BlackBerry needs to offer something really really big that the competitors don't have, to be able to regain market share. Small innovations and improvements, or focusing on a small group of people, is not going cut it.
    BlackBerry does need to offer something big because of the current public perception. And their innovation needs to be bigger to counter that negative public perception. Furthermore, because BlackBerry hasn't offered any of that "cool" consumer tech in any of the BB10 devices thus far they're now in a position of being forced to do something much bigger just to show that they're still in the game.

     Posted using my Z30 via CB10 
    02-07-15 10:01 PM
  10. KR2013's Avatar
    BlackBerry does need to offer something big because of the current public perception. And their innovation needs to be bigger to counter that negative public perception. Furthermore, because BlackBerry hasn't offered any of that "cool" consumer tech in any of the BB10 devices thus far they're now in a position of being forced to do something much bigger just to show that they're still in the game.

     Posted using my Z30 via CB10 
    After the back and forth, sounds like we are both in agreement that BlackBerry needs something really big!
    02-07-15 10:23 PM
  11. crazigee's Avatar
    After the back and forth, sounds like we are both in agreement that BlackBerry needs something really big!
    Yes, from your posts it certainly seems that we are of the same opinion on the matter.

     Posted using my Z30 via CB10 
    02-07-15 10:39 PM
  12. berry4life99's Avatar
    Innovation to each person is different from what I gather. Apple has a fingerprint reader. So did the Galaxy Nexus (two generations ago). Apple Pay uses NFC. BlackBerry has had NFC and payment options since BlackBerry 7. Apple adopted downloadable keyboard due to their popularity on Android. Technology will always build on what came before. Innovative is often used interchangeably with upgraded. A capacitive keyboard is upgraded to some and innovative to others. I just want to be in a world where people stop going with "the newest model" and give everything at least a fair look. I don't agree BlackBerry hates America but the opposite seems quite true. Does it mean BlackBerry is dead? It just means BlackBerry has to change in order to do what it needs to do.
    02-07-15 11:38 PM
  13. birdman_38's Avatar
    After the back and forth, sounds like we are both in agreement that BlackBerry needs something really big!
    To appeal to which crowd? Hopefully not consumer because BlackBerry is not interested in growing that market.
    02-08-15 01:57 AM
  14. Dhaval Patel7's Avatar
    its an start
    02-08-15 02:15 AM
  15. KR2013's Avatar
    To appeal to which crowd? Hopefully not consumer because BlackBerry is not interested in growing that market.
    I am sure they would love to appeal to the average consumer as well, even though their current focus might be the enterprise. Either way, even just with the enterprise, I feel BlackBerry needs something extra to get back the lost market, as I don't think the current strategy will be enough. Now, if we want to go one step further (targeting the average consumer), this extra thing needs to be much much bigger!
    02-08-15 03:33 AM
  16. ubizmo's Avatar
    Yes, I don't think it's that BlackBerry "isn't interested" in the consumer market as it is they've pretty much driven a wedge between themselves and that market. Consumers want a full app catalog. That's where the bar has been set. BlackBerry has the Android runtime, but they can't market that, because it's hit or miss. They can't promise that Android apps, even those in the Amazon store, will work, because some don't. So they have to stay pretty quiet about it.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-08-15 06:53 AM
  17. birdman_38's Avatar
    I am sure they would love to appeal to the average consumer as well, even though their current focus might be the enterprise. Either way, even just with the enterprise, I feel BlackBerry needs something extra to get back the lost market, as I don't think the current strategy will be enough.
    They are targeting that segment with BES12, BBM Protected, Blend, and the Classic. The breakthrough product was the Passport (although we won't get an indication of sales trends until the next ER).

    Not sure what innovative hardware Blackberry could release for Enterprise. It's more of a software game.
    02-08-15 08:55 AM
  18. KR2013's Avatar
    They are targeting that segment with BES12, BBM Protected, Blend, and the Classic. The breakthrough product was the Passport (although we won't get an indication of sales trends until the next ER).

    Not sure what innovative hardware Blackberry could release for Enterprise. It's more of a software game.
    Passport is certainly unique, but a breakthrough product? Not so sure. Even the die hard BlackBerry fans seem to be divided over its practicality. And yes, it would be interesting to see the sales data on it.

    Yes I agree, enterprises may not be that interested in hardware, of course unless BlackBerry offers such a revolutionary device that it starts dominating the BYOD sector. But, what's the chance of that happening? Anyway, anything big from BlackBerry is welcome (hardware or software).
    02-08-15 10:18 AM
  19. ADGrant's Avatar
    Passport is certainly unique, but a breakthrough product? Not so sure. Even the die hard BlackBerry fans seem to be divided over its practicality. And yes, it would be interesting to see the sales data on it.

    Yes I agree, enterprises may not be that interested in hardware, of course unless BlackBerry offers such a revolutionary device that it starts dominating the BYOD sector. But, what's the chance of that happening? Anyway, anything big from BlackBerry is welcome (hardware or software).
    There is no chance at all of BB dominating the BYOD sector. What they should be focusing on is software, not hardware. Right now they are letting Good completely dominate the secure BYOD market. Good used to sell handsets but they couldn't compete with BB so they wrote client software for PalmOS and Windows Mobile. Then came the iPhone and BYOD and their business is now thriving because BB is not competing with them.
    02-08-15 11:39 AM
  20. ubizmo's Avatar
    BlackBerry hasn't done anything that is fun and cool. They've come out with a new take on a keyboard; a device that already only appeals to a small niche.

    BlackBerry need to start looking at cool tech and competitive specs.
    But you're changing your litany of complaints. The definition of innovation is doing something new that others aren't doing yet. BlackBerry has innovated, with the Passport, in the keyboard. The form factor is almost new, since the only phone with similar dimensions is the LG Vu 3, which hasn't done well. The BB10 Hub is innovative as well. No one else has it.

    The Passport, BlackBerry's only top-end offering, has competitive specs, in terms of display resolution, RAM, and battery power.

    So, it's simply false to claim that BlackBerry has failed to innovate or offer a phone with competitive specs.

    But innovation doesn't guarantee success. Here your complaints about "cool tech" hit the mark. BlackBerry's legitimate innovations haven't yet been enough to move the needle much, in terms of sales and market share, as far as we know. I'm assuming that "cool" is just code for highly desirable in the consumer market. That's a fair definition.

    Samsung has innovated consistently, with air gestures and so on, but for the most part these haven't hit the "cool" target; neither has the iPhone's fingerprint ID, in my opinion.

    Siri was, and is, an innovation that was cool, and I increasingly see people using it (I work in a sea of iPhones). From all that I've seen, Cortana is better in every respect, but so far it's not making a big different to WP's fortunes. BlackBerry's drably named "Assistant" is serviceable, but if Cortana is any indication, even major improvements aren't likely to make a material difference for BlackBerry.

    The more this topic comes up, the more I think BlackBerry should fork into two device lines: A secure BB10 device with no Android runtime, for BES, regulated industries, government, etc.; and a BB10-skinned Android for consumers. The latter device would, one hopes, preserve what we consumers like about BB10, while providing full access to Google Play. I don't really expect this to happen, and I don't have any idea how reproducible the BB10 UI is on an Android base. I just think BlackBerry has painted itself into a corner with its current approach.
    02-08-15 01:18 PM
  21. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    I don't really expect this to happen, and I don't have any idea how reproducible the BB10 UI is on an Android base.
    I don't think it would be too difficult. There are already numerous skins/launchers for Android that have made some extreme changes. Though Samsung's Touchwhiz (which I really don't care for) has one example in it, the multi-tasking slide out pane, that demonstrates a simple concept that could be adapted to incorporate the Hub etc..
    02-08-15 01:46 PM
  22. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    While I agree that innovation plays a part, I think that smartphone buyers are looking for the net benefit offered by a particular device or family of devices.

    The first step is to stop putting focus on things that don't work. BlackBerry's insistence on a keyboard-only focus simply does not offer enough benefit to nearly enough people to produce the sales that BlackBerry needs. Apparently, you can't make Chen's 10 million devices-sold target that way. If the next earnings report shows otherwise, I'll be happily wrong. Keyboard phones don't have to disappear, but they surely should not be the focus.
    02-08-15 02:47 PM
  23. birdman_38's Avatar
    BlackBerry's insistence on a keyboard-only focus simply does not offer enough benefit to nearly enough people to produce the sales that BlackBerry needs. Apparently, you can't make Chen's 10 million devices-sold target that way.
    Gotta wonder if Chen loosely threw that number out there. It could be actually higher in reality.
    Last edited by birdman_38; 02-08-15 at 03:30 PM.
    02-08-15 03:16 PM
  24. bspence87's Avatar
    Gotta wonder if Chen threw that number out there. It could be actually higher than that in reality.
    It would seem that it is lower. They were profitable on hardware last quarter, only selling 1.8mil devices. Some of them were leftovers from the write-down but very few were high margin Passports either, since most of the Passports were deferred to this quarter.

    Chen also made a statement that they are profitable on every device made now, which means Passport R&D has been paid for, and they don't anticipate selling any below costs since they are not overproducing anymore. Classic is all profit, since it is Foxconn-made.

    Posted via CB10
    02-08-15 03:33 PM
  25. ADGrant's Avatar
    While I agree that innovation plays a part, I think that smartphone buyers are looking for the net benefit offered by a particular device or family of devices.

    The first step is to stop putting focus on things that don't work. BlackBerry's insistence on a keyboard-only focus simply does not offer enough benefit to nearly enough people to produce the sales that BlackBerry needs. Apparently, you can't make Chen's 10 million devices-sold target that way. If the next earnings report shows otherwise, I'll be happily wrong. Keyboard phones don't have to disappear, but they surely should not be the focus.
    I think the keyboard is one of the few obvious advantages that a BB10 device offers. If you are going to be tapping on glass anyway, why not just get an Android or iOS device.
    02-08-15 04:10 PM
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