08-25-15 01:01 PM
60 123
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  1. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    BB is clearly in the pole position in that business, so they could def try to use that advantage to help Google/Samsung to have more secured devices and have in exchange something appealing for the prosumers (not the mass consumer market).
    Crackberry thinks Blackberry is in the pole security position.

    The rest of the tech industry really doesn't have much respect for Blackberry and, if they did, one of Microsoft, Google, Apple, IBM, etc. could buyout the company easy peasy with their large coffers.

    There is no need to negotiate deals with Blackberry and help out a competing OS.
    08-16-15 01:46 PM
  2. Avenzuno's Avatar
    Extremely unlikely BlackBerry will build a device running pure Android on top of an invisible (to the user) BB10 layer. This would be expensive and difficult to maintain and support. If they are trying to extricate themselves from the expense of OS development, this would run in the opposite direction.

    We'll see soon enough.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    Yes, and cost remains the primary consideration. We all can continue to speculate, but what counts is what BlackBerry shows us. The evidence demonstrates that BlackBerry has abandoned further substantial development under Qt 4.8 and Qt 5. Perhaps tellingly, there has been no confirmation I know of that BlackBerry 10 is moving to Qt 5.5. Until we see anything, BlackBerry 10 users and fans will continue to worry.

    Posted via CB 10 | STA100-3 Z30 | OS 10.3.2.858
    08-16-15 01:55 PM
  3. jmr1015's Avatar
    Crackberry thinks Blackberry is in the pole security position.

    The rest of the tech industry really doesn't have much respect for Blackberry and, if they did, one of Microsoft, Google, Apple, IBM, etc. could buyout the company easy peasy with their large coffers.

    There is no need to negotiate deals with Blackberry and help out a competing OS.
    This. If BlackBerry really had anything of substantial value to offer, especially something big enough to hold sway against the entire OHA in some clandestine back room dealings with Google... I think Google would just outright buy controlling interest in the company. It would be pocket change from one quarters earnings. Why would Google rather negotiate a deal to help and strengthen BlackBerry and pump some life in to a competing OS with a competing App Store? Realistically, why would Google rock the OHA boat by sidestepping their own partners, to BlackBerry's benefit?
    app_Developer likes this.
    08-16-15 05:46 PM
  4. Avenzuno's Avatar
    One word comes to mind: antitrust. I believe when Apple was down in the dumps in 1997, Microsoft threw a few hundred million dollars to Apple for the very same reason. I think Google wants to make sure there some competition for its mobile OS exists, and to the extent it can help BlackBerry get more Android and possibly Google Play Services devices out there, it's a win for Google and its bottom line.

    Posted via CB 10 | STA100-3 Z30 | OS 10.3.2.858
    08-16-15 07:36 PM
  5. twiggyrj's Avatar
    One word comes to mind: antitrust. I believe when Apple was down in the dumps in 1997, Microsoft threw a few hundred million dollars to Apple for the very same reason. I think Google wants to make sure there some competition for its mobile OS exists, and to the extent it can help BlackBerry get more Android and possibly Google Play Services devices out there, it's a win for Google and its bottom line.

    Posted via CB 10 | STA100-3 Z30 | OS 10.3.2.858

    But there's Windows Phone for that, a much more established and stable minority player. I don't see how BlackBerry going bust in the Smartphone market would signal an antitrust suit.
    Maybe BlackBerry shouldn't try backroom deals and workarounds since that would cause more headaches than it would be worth going through. BlackBerry should either continue with BB10 and the runtime without GPS or vanilla android with GPS.
    It would be very difficult for BlackBerry to have it's cake an eat it especially being from a very disadvantaged position and little muscles to flex on Blackberry.
    08-16-15 07:47 PM
  6. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    One word comes to mind: antitrust.
    The mobile OS ecosystem is nowhere close to the position of the PC OS ecosystem when Microsoft bailed out Apple.

    Assuming Android is Windows, iOS makes up a much more sizable marketshare than did Mac and Apple is nowhere close to being needed to be bailed out.

    In addition to iOS, the mobile OS ecosystem also has Windows Phone, Tizen, Firefox, Ubuntu, Sailfish, etc. That's a lot more competitors than were around PC.

    As far as antitrust regulators are concerned, BB10 is not a blip on the radar. There is nothing that warrants giving it special treatment vs the half dozen other alternative OSes.
    jmr1015 and twiggyrj like this.
    08-16-15 07:50 PM
  7. chenageddon's Avatar
    It's highly unlikely that BlackBerry somehow has some magic process that they can add to any Android implementation to make it more secure. It's more likely that BlackBerry has a system via BES that will facilitate secure communication within its suite of apps.
    08-16-15 08:29 PM
  8. vegetto_456's Avatar
    let's look at it this way:

    Option A: A hypothetical "secure" Android-based Blackberry would be using a hypervisor and heavy modifications to comply with what BB10 is currently certified for, and running a full suite of custom apps for the renowned "Blackberry efficiency." Rooting (and replacing built in apps such as keyboard or launcher) will most likely be forbidden and blocked. This would require Blackberry to drop all current work on BB10 and port or rewrite a large chunk of the BB10 apps/interface. Google play services may still not be supported, depending on the exact legal terms and agreements. Blackberry would be dependent on Google for releasing new versions, updates, and patches; and may not be able to patch known security flaws if Google is ignoring them.

    Option B: Update BB10's Android runtime to support the latest Android 5.0 apps, and improve integration. Make Hub and toast handle notifications better, and allow for more granular control over permissions. It may just be possible to work out an agreement with Google to allow for Play services. This would be a continuation of Blackberry's current work, and can be released as an update to existing hardware.

    Now, I ask you:

    If you were holding a phone in either hand - one with Option A and one with Option B - could you tell the difference? (assume that either both or neither have Google Play services, and they are the same hardware)

    I do believe that the Venice is and will be running BB10, but with the updates noted in Option B.

    Just talked to a few of my bbry buddies and since the crackberry leaks they are more forthcoming now. Its 100% android. Vanilla with Bb10 elements such as hub. But no gestures. Take it as u will
    08-16-15 09:29 PM
  9. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Crackberry thinks Blackberry is in the pole security position.

    The rest of the tech industry really doesn't have much respect for Blackberry and, if they did, one of Microsoft, Google, Apple, IBM, etc. could buyout the company easy peasy with their large coffers.

    There is no need to negotiate deals with Blackberry and help out a competing OS.
    This. If BlackBerry really had anything of substantial value to offer, especially something big enough to hold sway against the entire OHA in some clandestine back room dealings with Google... I think Google would just outright buy controlling interest in the company. It would be pocket change from one quarters earnings. Why would Google rather negotiate a deal to help and strengthen BlackBerry and pump some life in to a competing OS with a competing App Store? Realistically, why would Google rock the OHA boat by sidestepping their own partners, to BlackBerry's benefit?
    Agreed and agreed.
    08-16-15 10:31 PM
  10. extisis's Avatar
    Why can't Q4 happen already? by then, worthy, substantive posts will appear that actually show this device in greater detail with pics and vids galore. be it good or bad, just wish it were here already. everyday with this thing.
    08-16-15 11:19 PM
  11. DamianWarS's Avatar
    It's highly unlikely that BlackBerry somehow has some magic process that they can add to any Android implementation to make it more secure. It's more likely that BlackBerry has a system via BES that will facilitate secure communication within its suite of apps.
    Allegedly Blackphone did it with their forked version of Android call PrivatOS. Blackphone also doesn't have Google Play.

    Posted via CB10
    08-17-15 01:03 AM
  12. KingOfQwerty's Avatar
    I will vote for the option that realistic fit in to Chen's statement that "He has something to address the app gap and if he do tell, his engineers will kill him".
    IMO, running a pure Android on a device is not one of them, as there is no engineering (read nothing new) in it.
    Also is allowing GPS in current BB10 format. It is not at all engineering. It is just a legal and business coarse.
    Securing Android to a level where it can be accepted at DoD (OK, at least for high level enterprises) OR optimizing BB10 & ART and providing a solid conversion tools for developers to replace GPS with BPS (! obviously a speculation) IS worth for Chen to make that statement.
    Being a businessman to put trust on his engineers (despite the engineering vs business threads right here on CB), I believe something is brewing apart from people making statement that a pure vanilla Android is on the cards.
    TrevS1977 likes this.
    08-17-15 03:35 AM
  13. kojita's Avatar
    Crackberry thinks Blackberry is in the pole security position.

    The rest of the tech industry really doesn't have much respect for Blackberry and, if they did, one of Microsoft, Google, Apple, IBM, etc. could buyout the company easy peasy with their large coffers.

    There is no need to negotiate deals with Blackberry and help out a competing OS.
    Well, it seems that Governements, army, medical care and so forth think BB is top notch secure, what makes you think they arent?
    08-17-15 05:33 AM
  14. cgk's Avatar
    Well, it seems that Governements, army, medical care and so forth think BB is top notch secure, what makes you think they arent?
    We are talking about handsets right? Well each of those have a very limited use-case scenario for BB devices - spilt 800,000 units a quarter between multiple sectors and countries, throw in hard-core consumers and these companies look BBRY so much they must be ordering literally tens of handsets...
    sentimentGX4 and chenageddon like this.
    08-17-15 05:48 AM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Well, it seems that Governements, army, medical care and so forth think BB is top notch secure, what makes you think they arent?
    Top notch security is only one "check box" that BlackBerry has covered. If that is all anyone is looking for than they are in the drivers seat.

    Based on the lack of Gov, army and medical interest in BlackBerry... I'd say sadly there are too many other "check boxes" that BlackBerry can't fill.

    And that's all most of use have been asking for... that BlackBerry provide the FULL experience.
    08-17-15 09:07 AM
  16. kojita's Avatar
    We are talking about handsets right? Well each of those have a very limited use-case scenario for BB devices - spilt 800,000 units a quarter between multiple sectors and countries, throw in hard-core consumers and these companies look BBRY so much they must be ordering literally tens of handsets...
    No, not just handset, the whole thing. Software and hardware.
    08-17-15 09:54 AM
  17. undone's Avatar
    Android handset manufacturers aren't exactly swimming in cash. Its just like the PC business, margins are tight and only the diversified survive. To believe things can not change in the OHA isn't looking forward. Now if Google has a certified offical runtime for other platforms to use, does that satifiy the OHA requirements (outside of standard platform OS)? For Google it will be about generating money via the App store, as well as any free marketable data mining they can get. I suspect the OHA will offer options vs Draconian hard fast rules.
    08-17-15 09:55 AM
  18. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Android handset manufacturers aren't exactly swimming in cash. Its just like the PC business, margins are tight and only the diversified survive. To believe things can not change in the OHA isn't looking forward. Now if Google has a certified offical runtime for other platforms to use, does that satifiy the OHA requirements (outside of standard platform OS)? For Google it will be about generating money via the App store, as well as any free marketable data mining they can get. I suspect the OHA will offer options vs Draconian hard fast rules.
    But how does BlackBerry change the prospects of all those Android OHA members? I agree that right now the Android game has gotten very crowded - there are almost 1,300 different Android OEM out there and very few of them are making any money. If anything I would see giving BB10's runtime the green light for Google Play as just one more competitor.

    And it's been said many times... Google doesn't care all that much about app revenues. It's the advertising that they are interested in. The purpose of the OHA was to keep the OS from becoming too fractured with each OEM running the own version - like Amazon chose to do.

    I agree that rules will bend and break as the need arises. And that really anything is possible. I just don't think it is very probable that Google is suddenly going to change the game without there being some benefit for THEM. Cause sadly the 3 Million devices that BlackBerry is on target to sell this year... is a drop in the bucket. It's like .002% of the market....

    Now if your saying that BlackBerry is going to provide something that will make Android a better competitor against Apple in the business market... that I could understand. But then again that is the same market that BlackBerry is trying to gain too... so I can't see that working out too well.

    Just seems like killing BB10 (which matches what we are seeing) and moving to Android is the more "simpler" solution.
    08-17-15 10:29 AM
  19. Carjackd's Avatar
    We can speculate all we want, about is it or not, we all have to wait and see, personally i think it just pisses people off talking about what might happen, we just have to wait and see what comes, then make up our minds if we are staying with Blackberry or moving on.
    Well, most of us will make up our own minds...and other will need their hands held.

    But I agree..speculation just pisses people off
    08-17-15 10:35 AM
  20. Carjackd's Avatar
    Here is the fallacy. It won't happen. BlackBerry has no bargaining power over the entire OHA membership such that they would be willing to rewrite their agreements just for us.

    Acer tried to sell a device with a forked version of Android. Not only did Google refuse them access to Google Play Services, but they threatened to throw them out of the alliance altogether.

    I still do not see any alternative. Google Play Services = pure Android device. Period.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    I wonder how many times you are gunna need to tell people this before they believe it.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    08-17-15 10:37 AM
  21. app_Developer's Avatar
    One word comes to mind: antitrust. I believe when Apple was down in the dumps in 1997, Microsoft threw a few hundred million dollars to Apple for the very same reason. I think Google wants to make sure there some competition for its mobile OS exists, and to the extent it can help BlackBerry get more Android and possibly Google Play Services devices out there, it's a win for Google and its bottom line.

    Posted via CB 10 | STA100-3 Z30 | OS 10.3.2.858
    Android already has two competitors in the marketplace. Both happen to be produced by two of the largest tech companies in the world. How is this antitrust situation?


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    08-17-15 10:37 AM
  22. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    It would be interesting if Crackberry was to do a poll asking if you will stay with blackberry if they do switch to android. I don't think they would though, they're a fan Base website/forum and won't speak of anything negative regarding BB.

    Q10 - 10.3.2.2339/SR .2226  < α∂∂ιт > 
    It all depends on the HW. If they release an Android device with weak, pitiful HW like all of their other devices (minus the Passport), why would I ever buy an Android BlackBerry? I'll just go buy a Samsung, or LG, or HTC. If they can differentiate their version to make it look and behave like BB10 (swiping, active frames, etc) then I would consider it even the HW was not as good. But I doubt this will happen. It will be a vanilla Android device with a scaled down BlackBerry hub pretty much.
    08-17-15 01:44 PM
  23. KingOfQwerty's Avatar
    Now if your saying that BlackBerry is going to provide something that will make Android a better competitor against Apple in the business market... that I could understand. But then again that is the same market that BlackBerry is trying to gain too... so I can't see that working out too well.
    This is key which others are refuse to see.
    Business' need to expand and they should look beyond the horizon. Google pretty much captured the consumer market and next should be the enterprise pie. So do Apple. It make sense for Google to partner with BB to venture in to this sector. As usual Google doesn't own the hardware, Android is used (probably M), GPS available. BB per-install BB Experience suite as a prelude to test suite and market need so as to put it in Google Play.
    I will not be surprised if Sundar Picchai holds this new Nexus Slide in any event in near future.

    On your latter part of the statement, BB's quarterly hardware results is my answer. It is not. just. picking. up. (OK not up to the mark).
    08-18-15 03:17 AM
  24. undone's Avatar
    But how does BlackBerry change the prospects of all those Android OHA members? I agree that right now the Android game has gotten very crowded - there are almost 1,300 different Android OEM out there and very few of them are making any money. If anything I would see giving BB10's runtime the green light for Google Play as just one more competitor.

    And it's been said many times... Google doesn't care all that much about app revenues. It's the advertising that they are interested in. The purpose of the OHA was to keep the OS from becoming too fractured with each OEM running the own version - like Amazon chose to do.

    I agree that rules will bend and break as the need arises. And that really anything is possible. I just don't think it is very probable that Google is suddenly going to change the game without there being some benefit for THEM. Cause sadly the 3 Million devices that BlackBerry is on target to sell this year... is a drop in the bucket. It's like .002% of the market....

    Now if your saying that BlackBerry is going to provide something that will make Android a better competitor against Apple in the business market... that I could understand. But then again that is the same market that BlackBerry is trying to gain too... so I can't see that working out too well.

    Just seems like killing BB10 (which matches what we are seeing) and moving to Android is the more "simpler" solution.
    I never would believe BlackBerry would have enough pull to change the direction of the OHA, but with partners limited success with being Android handset manufacturers something will need to change. No crystal ball or anything but offering the other vendors a framework and authorized runtime just increases your possible base (windows, apple, blackberry). If all the Android hardware makers just closed shop because they can't make any money on the falling hardware revenue, what does Google have then?
    08-18-15 10:23 AM
  25. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I never would believe BlackBerry would have enough pull to change the direction of the OHA, but with partners limited success with being Android handset manufacturers something will need to change. No crystal ball or anything but offering the other vendors a framework and authorized runtime just increases your possible base (windows, apple, blackberry). If all the Android hardware makers just closed shop because they can't make any money on the falling hardware revenue, what does Google have then?
    Instead of 1,300 OEMs that are struggling... five or six that are making money?

    The issue isn't that Android isn't selling, the issue is there are too many OEM fighting over a percentage of the still growing Android pie. And that Google is limiting their ability to differentiate from one another. It's basically who can build the BEST device (specs) for the LEAST (amount of money).

    Sadly what is best for Google and the platform - keeping the OS updated and the UI very similar.... isn't good for all these OEMs out there. Especially when Samsung is in the game and they control a number of the key components, so their cost are lower.

    Now if the Android platform were in trouble and needed to expand to a fresh new market... I could see this argument. But Android is already in enterprise, and Android M is specifically designed to improve the enterprise experience. But it's still a small market, Google getting into China with more official products would be a much smarter market to go after. Not sure how much more BlackBerry can offer Google... other than to be one of the dozens of EMM that will mange Android for Work. And if it's the BlackBerry Experience that is needed... well it's in BlackBerry best interest to offer it in Google Play for anyone to use.
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    08-18-15 12:08 PM
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