08-25-15 01:01 PM
60 123
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  1. grahamf's Avatar
    let's look at it this way:

    Option A: A hypothetical "secure" Android-based Blackberry would be using a hypervisor and heavy modifications to comply with what BB10 is currently certified for, and running a full suite of custom apps for the renowned "Blackberry efficiency." Rooting (and replacing built in apps such as keyboard or launcher) will most likely be forbidden and blocked. This would require Blackberry to drop all current work on BB10 and port or rewrite a large chunk of the BB10 apps/interface. Google play services may still not be supported, depending on the exact legal terms and agreements. Blackberry would be dependent on Google for releasing new versions, updates, and patches; and may not be able to patch known security flaws if Google is ignoring them.

    Option B: Update BB10's Android runtime to support the latest Android 5.0 apps, and improve integration. Make Hub and toast handle notifications better, and allow for more granular control over permissions. It may just be possible to work out an agreement with Google to allow for Play services. This would be a continuation of Blackberry's current work, and can be released as an update to existing hardware.

    Now, I ask you:

    If you were holding a phone in either hand - one with Option A and one with Option B - could you tell the difference? (assume that either both or neither have Google Play services, and they are the same hardware)

    I do believe that the Venice is and will be running BB10, but with the updates noted in Option B.
    08-15-15 10:20 AM
  2. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    We can speculate all we want, about is it or not, we all have to wait and see, personally i think it just pisses people off talking about what might happen, we just have to wait and see what comes, then make up our minds if we are staying with Blackberry or moving on.
    08-15-15 11:58 AM
  3. DamianWarS's Avatar
    I think they are just building a secure android os and will have market these phones to an android base audience while still keeping bb10. The google play stuff is hard to peg as I'm sure google has exceptions for test devices which might be only what we are seeing. The final android version may not have it.

    BlackBerry still has a reputation of security but if bb10 is only taking a slice of the pie that is under half of a percent then why not try and leverage their name as much as they can with the guys who have the biggest slice of the pie

    If android has over half the pie then I'd say it is very plausible for BlackBerry to double their sales (taking 1% of the android pie and keeping their own half percent).

    BlackBerry no longer cares about who is better and what is the coolest but if they can secure it and make money while doing it then it's just smart business.

    Posted via CB10
    anon(9208252) likes this.
    08-15-15 12:08 PM
  4. RubenDM's Avatar
    We can speculate all we want, about is it or not, we all have to wait and see, personally i think it just pisses people off talking about what might happen, we just have to wait and see what comes, then make up our minds if we are staying with Blackberry or moving on.
    This ^^^^

    Posted via CB10
    08-15-15 12:48 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    lIt may just be possible to work out an agreement with Google to allow for Play services.
    Here is the fallacy. It won't happen. BlackBerry has no bargaining power over the entire OHA membership such that they would be willing to rewrite their agreements just for us.

    Acer tried to sell a device with a forked version of Android. Not only did Google refuse them access to Google Play Services, but they threatened to throw them out of the alliance altogether.

    I still do not see any alternative. Google Play Services = pure Android device. Period.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    08-15-15 12:51 PM
  6. ZeBB45's Avatar
    We can speculate all we want, about is it or not, we all have to wait and see, personally i think it just pisses people off talking about what might happen, we just have to wait and see what comes, then make up our minds if we are staying with Blackberry or moving on.
    It would be interesting if Crackberry was to do a poll asking if you will stay with blackberry if they do switch to android. I don't think they would though, they're a fan Base website/forum and won't speak of anything negative regarding BB.

    Q10 - 10.3.2.2339/SR .2226  < α∂∂ιт > 
    08-15-15 12:53 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    It would be interesting if Crackberry was to do a poll asking if you will stay with blackberry if they do switch to android. I don't think they would though, they're a fan Base website/forum and won't speak of anything negative regarding BB.

    Q10 - 10.3.2.2339/SR .2226  < α∂∂ιт > 
    Realistically, until people can see a device or read an actual full review by an official source, it would be meaningless. The key factor is whether or not they can do a good job bringing the BlackBerry Experience over.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    anon(9208252) and LazyEvul like this.
    08-15-15 01:00 PM
  8. chenageddon's Avatar
    These two options are expensive and don't completely solve the app gap. Selling under 5 million devices per year simply doesn't justify the fixed costs of maintaining your own OS.

    Option C: Stock Android with BlackBerry Experience secure apps. This is the easiest and most cost effective option. Stock Android would require minimal OS work to get running on a device that has already been designed by a third party to run Android. The BlackBerry Experience apps are the same ones that are already being developed for BES customers. This would allow hardware operations to break even because you are outsourcing almost everything on the hardware side. Tremendous savings over developing your own OS.

    Is it the end-to-end security you had before? No, but 95% of customers won't notice or care. Is it the BB10 experience you know and love? No, but apprently, only 4% of BlackBerry customers over the past two years cared:

    Could Android rumors actually be updated Android RT in BB10 with better integration?-customerretentionrateiosandroid-800x220.jpg
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and Avenzuno like this.
    08-15-15 01:00 PM
  9. pgg101's Avatar
    I'm more concerned about the phasing out of SD cards. Seems like the new Samsung devices have removed them. If Venice is some variation of the Galaxy S6, then I'd have some serious issues about this device. I can live with a non-removable battery if it's as good as a Passport or Z30, but no SD card will be an issue for me.

    RedBerry Passport /10.3.2.2339 / Telus
    08-15-15 01:01 PM
  10. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    I'm more concerned about the phasing out of SD cards. Seems like the new Samsung devices have removed them. If Venice is some variation of the Galaxy S6, then I'd have some serious issues about this device. I can live with a non-removable battery if it's as good as a Passport or Z30, but no SD card will be an issue for me.

    RedBerry Passport /10.3.2.2339 / Telus
    Yes totally agree, never enough storage.
    Toodeurep likes this.
    08-15-15 01:02 PM
  11. Soulstream's Avatar
    You should remember that when 10.2.1 launched everybody said that the customers will be back to BB because they can install Android apps. It didn't happen at all. Then 10.3 arrived and people here were saying that now that the amazon app store is preinstalled users will come to BB. It didn't happen, AGAIN.

    It doesn't matter how good the runtime gets, more and more devs (including the projects I work at as a software developer) use Google Play Services APIs in their apps. devs are not forced to do it, but they do it because it gets some thing done easier.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    08-15-15 01:13 PM
  12. chenageddon's Avatar
    I'm more concerned about the phasing out of SD cards
    What's being phased out is making the mobile users handle memory resources. With memory and cloud storage getting as inexpensive as it is, why have an SD slot take up space when most users will never take advantage of it? Google Photo will store all of their smartphone photos for free forever.
    08-15-15 01:15 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    You should remember that when 10.2.1 launched everybody said that the customers will be back to BB because they can install Android apps. It didn't happen at all. Then 10.3 arrived and people here were saying that now that the amazon app store is preinstalled users will come to BB. It didn't happen, AGAIN.

    It doesn't matter how good the runtime gets, more and more devs (including the projects I work at as a software developer) use Google Play Services APIs in their apps. devs are not forced to do it, but they do it because it gets some thing done easier.
    And it's not just about Google Play Services. It's also the simplicity of the Google Play Store (update all, most recent app versions, largest repository of apps, books, music, movies, etc). People are tired of workarounds and half solutions.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    Last edited by conite; 08-15-15 at 01:36 PM.
    08-15-15 01:18 PM
  14. pgg101's Avatar
    What's being phased out is making the mobile users handle memory resources. With memory and cloud storage getting as inexpensive as it is, why have an SD slot take up space when most users will never take advantage of it? Google Photo will store all of their smartphone photos for free forever.
    Great if you have an unlimited data plan and always have reception or don't have roaming charges if you are on the road.

    RedBerry Passport /10.3.2.2339 / Telus
    Beakman and DarkJoker33 like this.
    08-15-15 01:31 PM
  15. Soulstream's Avatar
    And it's not just about Google Play Services. It's also the simplicity of the Google Play Store (update all, most recent app versions, largest repository of apps, books, music, movies, etc).

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    Very true. But it should also be noted that devs don't want 10 different platforms to code for; that would lead to too much app fragmentation. 3 platforms are enough for good competition (between platforms) and enough variance. Same thing happened in the desktop market. That's why the third spot is so important and Windows phone has it pretty much secured.
    08-15-15 01:39 PM
  16. thurask's Avatar
    08-15-15 01:45 PM
  17. gebco's Avatar
    What's being phased out is making the mobile users handle memory resources. With memory and cloud storage getting as inexpensive as it is, why have an SD slot take up space when most users will never take advantage of it? Google Photo will store all of their smartphone photos for free forever.
    That argument would hold water if Samsung and Apple weren't gouging their customers for the extra built-in storage. Go from 32 GB to 64 GB? That'll be $100.00 (CDN) more please; meanwhile, with an sd card slot, I can reuse the 64 GB micro sd card I already have, or buy a card for a heckuva lot less than buying a phone with more storage. And cloud storage as my only option? No thanks. I'll use the cloud for backup, but not for daily storage use.
    Removing the sd card option is just another way to gouge customers.
    08-15-15 03:14 PM
  18. chenageddon's Avatar
    That argument would hold water if Samsung and Apple weren't gouging their customers for the extra built-in storage. Go from 32 GB to 64 GB? That'll be $100.00 (CDN) more please;
    All the more reason for smartphone makers to get rid of the SD slot. Among the considerations for eliminating the SD slot, the ability for users to add inexpensive memory is probably not on the list. I'm sure they would say that they cause all sorts of nasty stability problems with the OS, etc.

    As for gouging their customers, stratifying your customers based on price sensitivity is a basic marketing strategy. How much more does it cost Toyota to make a Lexus vs a Camry? Did it really cost my pizza restaurant a dollar just to add mushrooms to a single slice?
    08-15-15 06:50 PM
  19. thurask's Avatar
    Great if you have an unlimited data plan and always have reception or don't have roaming charges if you are on the road.

    RedBerry Passport /10.3.2.2339 / Telus
    Yeah, this.

    Fat lot of good cloud storage will do if I'm on the subway.

    Posted via CB10
    DarkJoker33 and LazyEvul like this.
    08-16-15 01:43 AM
  20. kojita's Avatar
    Here is the fallacy. It won't happen. BlackBerry has no bargaining power over the entire OHA membership such that they would be willing to rewrite their agreements just for us.

    Acer tried to sell a device with a forked version of Android. Not only did Google refuse them access to Google Play Services, but they threatened to throw them out of the alliance altogether.

    I still do not see any alternative. Google Play Services = pure Android device. Period.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    Perhaps Security can be their bargain chip

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    08-16-15 05:53 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    Perhaps Security can be their bargain chip

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    Why would HTC, LG, Acer, Asus, Huawei, etc care about that? Hard to convince your competitors to allow you an exclusive competitive advantage.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    08-16-15 08:19 AM
  22. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Regardless of whether the slider is running BB10 or Android, I think it will be one or the other.

    It just doesn't make sense for BBRY to jump through the hoops to make another 'not quite' Android handset. The technological investment is big and no one is really asking for this Frankenstein device. It's not what current BB10 users are asking for nor is it what Android users care about either. If Android users had be interested in a BB10-Android hybrid, the original BB10 runtime would have already garnered marketshare gains for BB10.

    The only angle from which the Android runtime on BB10 explanation makes sense is as a fan "out" for those who accept that BBRY may want to try Android while coming up with an excuse not to undermine BB10 at the same time.
    Last edited by sentimentGX4; 08-16-15 at 08:40 AM.
    08-16-15 08:25 AM
  23. kojita's Avatar
    Why would HTC, LG, Acer, Asus, Huawei, etc care about that? Hard to convince your competitors to allow you an exclusive competitive advantage.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    Bargain chip to discuss with Google...they certainly seem to care about security. They are pretty much dominating the mobile space, and there will be trend/already starting of increasing hacks/threats and so forth based on those mobile devices (linking IoT). BB is clearly in the pole position in that business, so they could def try to use that advantage to help Google/Samsung to have more secured devices and have in exchange something appealing for the prosumers (not the mass consumer market).
    08-16-15 01:26 PM
  24. Avenzuno's Avatar
    Options A & B depend upon whether BlackBerry has been updating BlackBerry 10 to Qt 5.5. If so, then Android can run inside BlackBerry 10 through the QNX Hypervisor. To me, this is the best way for have BlackBerry to have its devices running Android. I'm no software engineer, so I cannot comment whether Google Play Services could be available with Android Lollypop running inside the QNX Hypervisor. I don't like Option C because it makes consumers think BlackBerry is an ordinary Android manufacturer. The Hypervisor solution is best because BlackBerry would provide a best-of-both-worlds solution that emphasizes BlackBerry 10's security and unique UI with Hub while also offering a better experience than the original Android runtime solution under Qt 4.8 & Cascades.

    Posted via CB 10 | STA100-3 Z30 | OS 10.3.2.858
    08-16-15 01:28 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Options A & B depend upon whether BlackBerry has been updating BlackBerry 10 to Qt 5.5. If so, then Android can run inside BlackBerry 10 through the QNX Hypervisor. To me, this is the best way for have BlackBerry to have its devices running Android.

    Posted via CB 10 | STA100-3 Z30 | OS 10.3.2.858
    Extremely unlikely BlackBerry will build a device running pure Android on top of an invisible (to the user) BB10 layer. This would be expensive and difficult to maintain and support. If they are trying to extricate themselves from the expense of OS development, this would run in the opposite direction.

    We'll see soon enough.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2339
    08-16-15 01:40 PM
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