06-15-15 08:24 PM
77 1234
tools
  1. ibpluto's Avatar
    Elaborate please. Where exactly do the other platforms fail to perform any functions as effectively? Can the other platforms not enter text at a reasonable rate? Do the other platforms not support file formats that BB does? Do the other platforms not support the services required to interact with said services? To be quite frank about it... the whole "they don't do them as well" argument is based solely on habitual actions that manifest opinions. The other platforms don't do it less effectively... they do it differently. When a BB user test drives another platform, their first instinct is that "this isn't right" because that's all they know; when actually it's not wrong... just different. Neither platform is less effective. Just different in how they approach it. And it's not just BB users adapting to other platforms... as regular users of other platforms that move to Blackberry encounter the same phenomena. It's not wrong, it's not less effective, it's just different.

    Every forum for other platforms (Android, iOS, WP) have more than their fair share of threads started by people who've only know one platform, are now driving a new platform, and are convinced everything is just wrong and are seeking help, until they get used to the different UI/UX experience. Once they get past it and adapt, their tune changes dramatically.
    Been a while since I checked but can you even reply to an E-mail in iOS and attach something other than a picture or video? Can you reply or compose an email and pull attachments from other emails? How about any file management capability? Seriously, been a while, can iOS do this yet?

    CB10'n it....via da Z30
    bungaboy, Corbu, sidhuk and 3 others like this.
    04-07-15 08:00 PM
  2. extisis's Avatar
    I still have lots of these, and I have no problem holding people down and shoving a few in their noses. Don't make me have to do that again.

    http://d12mafwafvawfa.cloudfront.net...60-tabs-31.jpg
    ....?
    04-07-15 10:12 PM
  3. BCITMike's Avatar
    Elaborate please. Where exactly do the other platforms fail to perform any functions as effectively? Can the other platforms not enter text at a reasonable rate? Do the other platforms not support file formats that BB does? Do the other platforms not support the services required to interact with said services? To be quite frank about it... the whole "they don't do them as well" argument is based solely on habitual actions that manifest opinions. The other platforms don't do it less effectively... they do it differently. When a BB user test drives another platform, their first instinct is that "this isn't right" because that's all they know; when actually it's not wrong... just different. Neither platform is less effective. Just different in how they approach it. And it's not just BB users adapting to other platforms... as regular users of other platforms that move to Blackberry encounter the same phenomena. It's not wrong, it's not less effective, it's just different.

    Every forum for other platforms (Android, iOS, WP) have more than their fair share of threads started by people who've only know one platform, are now driving a new platform, and are convinced everything is just wrong and are seeking help, until they get used to the different UI/UX experience. Once they get past it and adapt, their tune changes dramatically.
    Fresh off the top of my head:
    [iOS] Saving files from the browser.
    [iOS] Save attachments from emails.
    [iOS] Opening zip files on the device.
    [iOS] Up until recently, Flash!

    There is a reason "there's an app for that" took off. Because the OS itself is fairly limited (by design) and its the APPS that extend it. So when people are often comparing OS's, they are not in fact comparing the out of box OS, but the free/cheap/paid app extended experience.

    There's also a reason there is a root (Android) and jailbreak (iOS) community and a BlackBerry leak community. There needs to be a mobile OS orgy where the best of all worlds get blended, but that will never happen.
    sleepngbear likes this.
    04-08-15 04:07 AM
  4. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Fresh off the top of my head:
    [iOS] Saving files from the browser.
    [iOS] Save attachments from emails.
    [iOS] Opening zip files on the device.
    [iOS] Up until recently, Flash!

    There is a reason "there's an app for that" took off. Because the OS itself is fairly limited (by design) and its the APPS that extend it. So when people are often comparing OS's, they are not in fact comparing the out of box OS, but the free/cheap/paid app extended experience.

    There's also a reason there is a root (Android) and jailbreak (iOS) community and a BlackBerry leak community. There needs to be a mobile OS orgy where the best of all worlds get blended, but that will never happen.
    I'd gently argue that by default, "out of the box" is a hollow descriptor in today's consumer tech landscape. I'd also add that the app ecosystem is as core a part of an OS as anything else.

    The app movement stumbled onto one huge positive: it gave consumers an opportunity to create custom devices. A la carte for the win.

    And yes, a Frankenstein phone would be awesome.
    ubizmo, JeepBB and pantlesspenguin like this.
    04-08-15 06:23 AM
  5. justino1284's Avatar
    While other platforms can do the same functions as a BlackBerry, I would challenge to say that they don't do them as well as a BlackBerry.

    Apple still hasn't mastered Exchange calendar functionality. Meetings with delegates gets lost or the whole occurrence of the meeting disappears.

    Apple is not a Exchange gold partner. And I have friends at many firms who have users like mine who complain of delayed emails and such.

    The LED indicator is great on a BlackBerry. Android does it well too. If I miss the APNS on an iPhone how do I know I have a message waiting without touching the device? I'm sure there is a way but I haven't found anything good. Other than the camera flash as an LED. But you can't customize that.

    Most users like iPhone more due to it being a status symbol. Just like BlackBerry was. Also, let's be honest. It's the apps and push notifications. Apple does that we'll. However, I'm happy with my Classic and my iPad mini as my combo through blend.

    Just a few notes from a corporate perspective.

    Posted via CB10
    I total agree with that. All I'm saying is that if you take away the apps from an iPhone, you have a phone with a good camera. Thing is, even when blackberry didn't have the apps, you could still use them as they pertained to work. I can't say the same about the iPhone, however, now that they are most compatible with everything, it just makes them convenience for most prosumer and consumer needs.
    04-08-15 10:24 AM
  6. Toodeurep's Avatar
    Please take a moment and re-read carefully what I wrote. I do not use any of the words in post, nor do I insinuate same. If you are unable to infer the plain meaning of less than 6 lines of simple text, you may want to visit your physician.
    It is just a simple question. You don't have to answer it. I see know reason for you to attempt to insult me over it.

    To think, my post was only 1 line of simple text.
    04-09-15 05:14 AM
  7. Toodeurep's Avatar
    Been a while since I checked but can you even reply to an E-mail in iOS and attach something other than a picture or video? Can you reply or compose an email and pull attachments from other emails? How about any file management capability? Seriously, been a while, can iOS do this yet?

    CB10'n it....via da Z30
    I'll have to pop my SIM back into my Lumia (been a few months) to do a complete check but that WP browser was brutal. I couldn't even have a home page. Not to mention that if you were in the music player and went home, you couldn't stop the music because no app was open. You had to re-open the app and pause the music.
    04-09-15 05:23 AM
  8. nt300's Avatar
    Ha ha ha, yes of course the writer is an fool... How dare anyone ever have an opinion other than yours..... Smh
    An opinion is one thing, spreading absolute nonsense and making yourself look like an Aris is another. The Author represents the latter of the issue. LOL

    Sexy White Z30....
    zyben likes this.
    04-09-15 07:03 AM
  9. mornhavon's Avatar
    It is just a simple question. You don't have to answer it. I see know reason for you to attempt to insult me over it.
    I think 1magine was just saying that other platforms are being used in enterprises and in key "getting things done" industries, iPhones are particularly popular, so the "tools not toys" argument is a non-starter. 1magine didn't say that BB10 wasn't capable of doing many of the same tasks, the point was that other platforms can as well.

    However, as others have pointed out, many enterprises benefit greatly from work apps, apps that BB10 devices have no official access to. So it could be argued that for many professionals in many industries, BB10 has become the least productive platform.
    04-09-15 08:02 AM
  10. ibpluto's Avatar
    I think 1magine was just saying that other platforms are being used in enterprises and in key "getting things done" industries, iPhones are particularly popular, so the "tools not toys" argument is a non-starter. 1magine didn't say that BB10 wasn't capable of doing many of the same tasks, the point was that other platforms can as well.

    However, as others have pointed out, many enterprises benefit greatly from work apps, apps that BB10 devices have no official access to. So it could be argued that for many professionals in many industries, BB10 has become the least productive platform.
    I think the part your missing is the posts above where people point out basic core functions of day to day business are not possible on some other platforms like they are on BB10. So the tools not toys argument stands IMO

    CB10'n it....via da Z30
    sidhuk, rarsen and zyben like this.
    04-09-15 02:01 PM
  11. 1magine's Avatar
    I think the part your missing is the posts above where people point out basic core functions of day to day business are not possible on some other platforms like they are on BB10. So the tools not toys argument stands IMO

    CB10'n it....via da Z30
    You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts. IF and I say 'IF' basic business functionality is unavailable on other platforms, it begs the question how the overwhelming majority of businesses are utilizing other platforms and not Blackberry. Either business and IT leaders have suffered brain washing or significant cognitive impairment, or they objectively show you are incorrect and other platforms meet the necessary core functionality to conduct actual business.

    Further, the idea that BB has some type of leg up on any core smartphone functions is in my opinion an obscene abomination of the truth. BB was last to add a camera, last to add wifi, last to add navigation, last to add an mp3 player, and continues to generally lag behind Apple and Android in these measures. BB has always had a great email client and like most anyone who has ever used the Hub, I absolutely love it - - that said both IOS and Android have decent enough email clients that function well enough for business use. I could be wrong, but given the fact that Apple has basically owned the Enterprise space (including, medicine, law, banking, publishing and finance) for the last several years, I think the company I'm in speaks for itself.
    early2bed likes this.
    04-09-15 02:15 PM
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts. IF and I say 'IF' basic business functionality is unavailable on other platforms, it begs the question how the overwhelming majority of businesses are utilizing other platforms and not Blackberry. Either business and IT leaders have suffered brain washing or significant cognitive impairment, or they objectively show you are incorrect and other platforms meet the necessary core functionality to conduct actual business.

    Further, the idea that BB has some type of leg up on any core smartphone functions is in my opinion an obscene abomination of the truth. BB was last to add a camera, last to add wifi, last to add navigation, last to add an mp3 player, and continues to generally lag behind Apple and Android in these measures. BB has always had a great email client and like most anyone who has ever used the Hub, I absolutely love it - - that said both IOS and Android have decent enough email clients that function well enough for business use. I could be wrong, but given the fact that Apple has basically owned the Enterprise space (including, medicine, law, banking, publishing and finance) for the last several years, I think the company I'm in speaks for itself.
    Exactly. Harsh, but true.

    Even BBRY doesn't believe in that "tools not toys" comedy anymore, as shown by it's willingness to partner with the former "toys" that are encroaching on its "tool" business.
    Last edited by Tre Lawrence; 04-09-15 at 04:27 PM.
    04-09-15 02:23 PM
  13. katesbb's Avatar
    If I miss the APNS on an iPhone how do I know I have a message waiting without touching the device?
    You don't. The only persistent alert is for Messages, which can beep every two minutes for 20 minutes max. Othwerwise, if you're out of hearing range of your iPhone for any amount of time, you *have* to manually check it to know if something is pending.
    04-09-15 03:00 PM
  14. mornhavon's Avatar
    I think the part your missing is the posts above where people point out basic core functions of day to day business are not possible on some other platforms like they are on BB10. So the tools not toys argument stands IMO
    If you need to send multiple attachments (aside from images) in a single e-mail from a mobile device, iOS isn't well suited for you. If you need to store a variety of files for easy access from differing applications, iOS isn't well suited for you.

    iOS isn't well suited to my needs or yours, but it meets the needs of many, many people, a great number of professionals included. To say that all other platforms are "toys" because one of them doesn't meet all of your specific needs is humorous. Should those people who are unable to use BB10 because their work apps aren't available on it refer to BB10 as a toy?
    04-09-15 03:08 PM
  15. ibpluto's Avatar
    You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts. IF and I say 'IF' basic business functionality is unavailable on other platforms, it begs the question how the overwhelming majority of businesses are utilizing other platforms and not Blackberry. Either business and IT leaders have suffered brain washing or significant cognitive impairment, or they objectively show you are incorrect and other platforms meet the necessary core functionality to conduct actual business.

    Further, the idea that BB has some type of leg up on any core smartphone functions is in my opinion an obscene abomination of the truth. BB was last to add a camera, last to add wifi, last to add navigation, last to add an mp3 player, and continues to generally lag behind Apple and Android in these measures. BB has always had a great email client and like most anyone who has ever used the Hub, I absolutely love it - - that said both IOS and Android have decent enough email clients that function well enough for business use. I could be wrong, but given the fact that Apple has basically owned the Enterprise space (including, medicine, law, banking, publishing and finance) for the last several years, I think the company I'm in speaks for itself.
    It absolutely begs that question. I will tell you how, its a misconception of BB10 capability and an ignored understanding that people are either a) willing to ignore the fact they are unable to do things on some other platform that they can do on BB10, or b) and I think this is the more likely, they are oblivious to the fact of what they are missing. The other factor is that other platforms are clearly more popular and it is also clear BB is not (especially in the US). Most people, especially those in BYOD, WILL NOT take the time or care to understand what BB10 can do better than other platforms. They just want what is popular and told works best. When it comes to file management, and file manipulation within E-mails and the hub there is no better platform that BB10. These are not my own facts. I have yet to meet one person with an iPhone or Android device in a BYOD environment that is required to have certain apps that are not available on BB10, and I have spoken to literally hundreds upon hundreds of folks. Not to say this doesn't exist, I will readily admit it does in certain sectors, but it is NOT the majority.... no chance, no way. Most bring in their device, connect to a company server via active sync and reply to e-mails best they can.

    as for BB being last in some areas. I get that, not my argument, it’s why they are in the pickle they are. To be fair, you can also say iOS was the last to have cut and paste, last to have NFC, still doesn't have file management capability, pizz-poor E-mail functionality and no expandable memory. I would argue what I list is far more important than what you listed as being pertinent in the enterprise space and BlackBerry has addressed them now anyway. SO leave the past in the past.

    The E-mail functionality on iOS is an absolute joke. Android is better, only slightly. It is NOT good enough, no chance...certainly not for me. It is flat out garbage I would say, because I have used BB10 and I know better. Those that use it and say it is acceptable are either a) clueless, b) full of it, or c) bit of both.

    I think too many mistake popularity for what is actually the better product for the task they have at hand
    04-09-15 03:54 PM
  16. BCITMike's Avatar
    Exactly. Harsh, but true.

    Even BBRY doesn't believe in that "tools not toys" comedy anymore, as shown by it's willingness to partner with the former "toys" that are encroaching on its "tool" business.
    To build toys.. wait, no, to be more productive in enterprise setting to get work done. Your comment is out of place and incorrect. Your attempt to zing is a fail.

    It's obvious there is bias on both sides, but come on... the blinders are strong. A lot of these opinions are nonsensical. Equating "good enough" because its used in numbers to argue against usability (with examples) is an illogical argument. You want to compare the OS, no, it has to be the ecosystem (apps not made by Apple or included with iOS). Jesus Christ. I wish I took debate in high school so I'd have the technical names for how these arguments don't apply. Straw man?
    04-09-15 04:12 PM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    To build toys.. wait, no, to be more productive in enterprise setting to get work done. Your comment is out of place and incorrect. Your attempt to zing is a fail.

    It's obvious there is bias on both sides, but come on... the blinders are strong. A lot of these opinions are nonsensical. Equating "good enough" because its used in numbers to argue against usability (with examples) is an illogical argument. You want to compare the OS, no, it has to be the ecosystem (apps not made by Apple or included with iOS). Jesus Christ. I wish I took debate in high school so I'd have the technical names for how these arguments don't apply. Straw man?
    It's a simple discussion, one that, sans emotion, is easily started. The problem is is that folks anthromorphosize software and get offended if anyone hints that -- OMG -- folks on other platforms get things done.

    It's pretty hilarious.

    So, we theorize as to why BB10, the former market leader, is struggling. Conspiracies (the 1% wanting to keep BB10 for themselves is my favorite), ignorance (LOL), a refusal to behold reality, etc. I prefer Occam's Razor myself.

    Is BB10 a cool OS. Yep. Are the other OSes cool too (and I know this causes pain for some folks) yep. I do believe the only thing that his BB10 back is the lack of a comprehensive ecosystem. The problem is that, IMHO, it's missing the BIGGEST thing that determines mass adoption in today's market.

    In any case, we can sit here and wax philosophically about the ultimate kernel that is QNX, and marvel at how the tools we use destroy the toys others use. I'm so grateful that BBRY does not think in such an archaic way.

    Anymore, at least.

    LOL at "zing." Why would you infer that? Even if it was an attack (LOL) on the gloriously perfect OS, why would it burn? I've said the same things to BBRY staffers in interviews, and they say the same EXACT thing.
    DenverRalphy and mornhavon like this.
    04-09-15 04:40 PM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    It absolutely begs that question. I will tell you how, its a misconception of BB10 capability and an ignored understanding that people are either a) willing to ignore the fact they are unable to do things on some other platform that they can do on BB10, or b) and I think this is the more likely, they are oblivious to the fact of what they are missing. The other factor is that other platforms are clearly more popular and it is also clear BB is not (especially in the US). Most people, especially those in BYOD, WILL NOT take the time or care to understand what BB10 can do better than other platforms. They just want what is popular and told works best. When it comes to file management, and file manipulation within E-mails and the hub there is no better platform that BB10. These are not my own facts. I have yet to meet one person with an iPhone or Android device in a BYOD environment that is required to have certain apps that are not available on BB10, and I have spoken to literally hundreds upon hundreds of folks. Not to say this doesn't exist, I will readily admit it does in certain sectors, but it is NOT the majority.... no chance, no way. Most bring in their device, connect to a company server via active sync and reply to e-mails best they can.

    as for BB being last in some areas. I get that, not my argument, its why they are in the pickle they are. To be fair, you can also say iOS was the last to have cut and paste, last to have NFC, still doesn't have file management capability, pizz-poor E-mail functionality and no expandable memory. I would argue what I list is far more important than what you listed as being pertinent in the enterprise space and BlackBerry has addressed them now anyway. SO leave the past in the past.

    The E-mail functionality on iOS is an absolute joke. Android is better, only slightly. It is NOT good enough, no chance...certainly not for me. It is flat out garbage I would say, because I have used BB10 and I know better. Those that use it and say it is acceptable are either a) clueless, b) full of it, or c) bit of both.

    I think too many mistake popularity for what is actually the better product for the task they have at hand
    Well, thankfully, BB10 is an option for those who demands excellence in email. Choices are good.
    04-09-15 04:46 PM
  19. BCITMike's Avatar
    It's a simple discussion, one that, sans emotion, is easily started. The problem is is that folks anthromorphosize software and get offended if anyone hints that -- OMG -- folks on other platforms get things done.

    It's pretty hilarious.

    So, we theorize as to why BB10, the former market leader, is struggling. Conspiracies (the 1% wanting to keep BB10 for themselves is my favorite), ignorance (LOL), a refusal to behold reality, etc. I prefer Occam's Razor myself.

    Is BB10 a cool OS. Yep. Are the other OSes cool too (and I know this causes pain for some folks) yep. I do believe the only thing that his BB10 back is the lack of a comprehensive ecosystem. The problem is that, IMHO, it's missing the BIGGEST thing that determines mass adoption in today's market.

    In any case, we can sit here and wax philosophically about the ultimate kernel that is QNX, and marvel at how the tools we use destroy the toys others use. I'm so grateful that BBRY does not think in such an archaic way.

    Anymore, at least.

    LOL at "zing." Why would you infer that? Even if it was an attack (LOL) on the gloriously perfect OS, why would it burn? I've said the same things to BBRY staffers in interviews, and they say the same EXACT thing.
    I don't think people get 'offended' when people carelessly equate different degrees of effort to get things done as being the same. Perhaps upset or confused by the notion when in our minds, they are not even close?

    What I consider to be basic, must-have functionality, seems to be optional or 'nice to have', not 'need to have' to others. For some people, they go nuts that BB10 doesn't have S/MIME support without BES (where iOS does), and I go nuts over the lack of attachment and file saving. Both are valid arguments for their needs. I could not do my job without file saving and attachment handling.

    My first experience with iPad mini the other day and the lack of not being able to save attachments and files to the iPad will forever cement this in my brain.

    Your zing (trying to use their words against them and calling it a comedy) was at the marketing, not the OS itself, since its to partner up to work on software NOT for BB10. That their marketing phrase has gone 180 degrees infers that BlackBerry has given up on their focus on productivity to go for toys. That is simply not true. It could be argued they've doubled down by focusing on enterprise over consumer markets. Bottom line, your statement is without merit and the "as shown by..." does not demonstrate your point. If they partnered up with them to make some frilly, gimmicky feature, then you'd have a point. But making strong security software DOES NOT demonstrate they don't "believe in that "tools not toys" comedy anymore".
    04-09-15 05:36 PM
  20. techvisor's Avatar
    But if so many people have iPhones, how can they be a status symbol? BlackBerry was a status symbol in the mid 2000s because of its reputation of professionalism. Plus the number of people with smartphones were a fraction of what they are now. That's also why iPhones were once seen as a status symbol - smartphones weren't as popular in 2007 as they are now, and they were very pricey. They're still pricey depending on how much storage you get, but from the outside you can't tell if someone's carrying a 16gb model or a 128gb model. But they're no more a status symbol than high end Android devices that cost just as much.
    I remember when cell phones first started appearing, those were real status symbols. I was a real young kid but I can still remember the awe of seeing an actual mobile phone. Truly only the rich could afford them. Times have certainly changed.
    04-09-15 08:55 PM
  21. guygardner73's Avatar
    Haha, Miliband is out! Serves him right for dissing BlackBerry.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2576 O2 UK
    05-12-15 11:35 AM
  22. THBW's Avatar
    Been a while since I checked but can you even reply to an E-mail in iOS and attach something other than a picture or video? Can you reply or compose an email and pull attachments from other emails? How about any file management capability? Seriously, been a while, can iOS do this yet?

    CB10'n it....via da Z30
    Well no. It does make one chuckle.

    Posted via CB10
    05-16-15 05:07 PM
  23. calicocat2010's Avatar
    ^ Lol. Wow. IOS need to get with the times.
    05-23-15 08:59 PM
  24. thymaster's Avatar
    Why do people stress over this?

    Z30something
    Because people got a lot of time on their hands.

    Posted via CB10
    05-24-15 03:33 PM
  25. BoldPreza's Avatar
    I swear people in here sound like mindless robots talking about work and productivity. Do you really think that people aren't able to get work done on other platforms? If that was remotely true no business would have adopted these other platforms and people wouldn't use them as daily phones. Its so ridiculous when stuff like that is said. Sometimes I think that people in CrackBerry think they are the only ones in the world that are getting work done because they use a BB and everyone else is just sitting around playing games because their phone can't do anything else.

    Now que the next thread about how this game or that game is working on a BB or the next blog post discussing what new game has been released for BB10.
    Agreed on quite a few things. I got everything done on my Sony that I do with my BlackBerry. Thing is it was frustrating cause for example I had to download an email client cause I didn't like the stock one and even then I had to tell it every time that I wanted to see my combined inbox as opposed to one account. Hub on BlackBerry takes care of all of that. Plus BBM, plus Whatsapp, plus sms, plus Facebook, etc.

    Had to download a keyboard cause the stock one was brutal, had to download a flashlight app that stopped working after a couple of months.

    The BlackBerry just worked and had those things out of the box.

    I do find it frustrating though it's selling itself as a business tool yet everything I see on CrackBerry is for games. Where are my productivity apps? Health tracking, mortgage apps(better ones), updates to doc to go, etc. I need those not more games and android is killing it in that regard. Not to mention how far ahead apple is with it.

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-15 10:18 AM
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