10-01-15 03:51 PM
126 ... 3456
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  1. markmall's Avatar
    What markets? Also, it came out half-finished. Maybe it was too late or maybe it wasn't. We will never know because people can't buy a product they don't know exists.
    09-28-15 02:32 AM
  2. JeepBB's Avatar
    Simply not true, in many markets - there was a significant consumer push - it's just it was too late.

    Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
    Yes. Here in the UK, there was significant advertising and marketing at the time of both the Z10 and Q10. There was also lots of generally positive press too. BB certainly did try here in the UK... but I guess mileage may differ in other markets.

    The SuperBowl Ad in US markets, three months before the product was available to buy, probably wasn't BB marketing's finest hour though.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    09-28-15 02:38 AM
  3. cgk's Avatar
    Yes. Here in the UK, there was significant advertising and marketing at the time of both the Z10 and Q10. There was also lots of generally positive press too. BB certainly did try here in the UK... but I guess mileage may differ in other markets.

    The SuperBowl Ad in US markets, three months before the product was available to buy, probably wasn't BB marketing's finest hour though.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Yep - I remember that 02 was running a lot of ads and there were a lot of Point-of-sale displays.
    09-28-15 02:49 AM
  4. Uzi's Avatar
    Even with marketing, people in the US will still return the device because no instagram at the time..
    kbz1960 likes this.
    09-28-15 02:50 AM
  5. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    What markets? Also, it came out half-finished. Maybe it was too late or maybe it wasn't. We will never know because people can't buy a product they don't know exists.
    Oh, more people knew than we give credit to. Deciding to actually acquire BB10 (and keeping it) was the issue.
    techvisor likes this.
    09-28-15 05:55 AM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Yes. Here in the UK, there was significant advertising and marketing at the time of both the Z10 and Q10. There was also lots of generally positive press too. BB certainly did try here in the UK... but I guess mileage may differ in other markets.

    The SuperBowl Ad in US markets, three months before the product was available to buy, probably wasn't BB marketing's finest hour though.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Wasn't "Tools not toys" a gem from that area?

    Anyone remember the one that came out around when BB10 was coming out? The one with the lady who typed an illogically high number of emails on her legacy device, and challenged folks to that on a touchscreen?

    Basically, the commercial implied one couldn't be productive with a vkb -- right before the Z10 launched.

    Funny stuff.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    09-28-15 06:02 AM
  7. leglace1's Avatar
    So the answer is not to advertise? In what world does that make sense? Why would any company invest so much in R&D and production without trying to maximize sales? Unless you want it to fail. Maybe, the failures in sales were marketing failures. It does not mean you give up trying to spread the word.

    I stumbled unto the Passport by accident.
    09-28-15 07:16 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    So the answer is not to advertise? In what world does that make sense? Why would any company invest so much in R&D and production without trying to maximize sales? Unless you want it to fail. Maybe, the failures in sales were marketing failures. It does not mean you give up trying to spread the word.
    There are two camps out there:

    1) those that feel that even though BlackBerry had one tenth the advertising budget of its competitors, if they had done a better job with it, customers and developers would have come to BB10 in droves (or at least sufficiently), and

    2) those who feel that developers were content and dug-in with two ecosystems, and weren't going to come over regardless, and therefore it was discovered fairly early that spending big advertising dollars was pointless when there wasn't an ecosystem to offer with BB10 - which is what most consumers want.

    It should also be noted that some people suggest part of the problem was not just marketing, but the mix of devices offered. I would counter immediately with the fact that the writing was on the wall with respect to developer buy-in less than 6 months after the launch of the Z10 / Q10 - well before the need for their replacements.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2639
    09-28-15 07:27 AM
  9. leglace1's Avatar
    Even if they believed in #2, you don't release innovative hardware like the Passport without at least some ads online and magazines unless you want to take a loss. It's just elementary. They could have advertised in Forbes and Wall Street Journal.

    Posted via CB10
    Allanon89 likes this.
    09-28-15 07:44 AM
  10. markmall's Avatar
    Leglace, you are correct. You don't keep your products secret unless you want to lose money. This has nothing to do with developers.

    You can't market the passport because you don't have enough developers? Then don't launch the product at all.

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-15 08:03 AM
  11. extisis's Avatar
    Yeah, that's great for the people who don't know any better, and come here for information. Great contribution to this forum.
    yes because you should believe everything you read on the internet. yes surfer of pygmies.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    09-28-15 09:21 AM
  12. LoganSix's Avatar
    Go ask Microsoft about Windows Mobile app development, throwing cash at a problem is not going to solve everything. Blackberry is at the point that have to be very careful how they spend their money because they go crazy spending cash there will be no blackberry left. Keep in mind overall blackberry is still losing money and thus they need to keep that cash on hand to keep the company afloat.
    Microsoft, with 2 failed attempts at making a phone?

    Not in the same boat as BlackBerry. BlackBerry had a successful following and they started to realize (a bit late) that they needed to change. But, they still had the name recognition.

    Did they need to spend all the money on advertising? No, they did not.

    What they needed to do was go to the biggest apps (not games or fart apps) and ask the companies what would it take to get a BB10 app and then do it. Now Chen is pushing "open" platforms or whatever. At a minimum, they could get the most popular BlueTooth devices, make libraries to connect to those devices and include them in BB10. That would give developers and advantage for creating BB10 apps. They could have worked with non-Apple partners to provide watches, smart clothing, etc... Not everyone was in bed with Apple or Android. This would give a base for having more than just the phone and a starting point to move into more IoT devices. They can't just be an IoT software company. Apple and Google know this, which is why they are throwing out more IoT hardware. BlackBerry could also have helped push NFC payment by teaming up with banks to offer the service world wide.

    I don't know if they tried to do this or not, from what I know, all they did was their Port-athons and a little bit of carrot holding for the developers. A few phones and $10k for a short period of time. No long term vision, just like releasing the PlayBook before it was ready.
    09-28-15 09:26 AM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    What they needed to do was go to the biggest apps (not games or fart apps) and ask the companies what would it take to get a BB10 app and then do it. Now Chen is pushing "open" platforms or whatever.
    They did exactly that, and they managed to secure some apps, but many companies told them the same thing: "the only thing we care about is the size of your userbase, so show us a marketshare above 5% (marketshare being a leading indicator of userbase size) and we'll take a look."

    Of course, because BB couldn't release devices until 2Q13, when they needed something available no later than 2011 (and much better 2010) to be in the race, and because the OS wasn't really usable until 2014, BB never stood the slightest chance of getting any real marketshare with BB10.
    Shlooky, techvisor and TGR1 like this.
    09-28-15 10:28 AM
  14. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    A perfect summary of what happened/why BB10 failed.
    Shlooky likes this.
    09-28-15 10:31 AM
  15. early2bed's Avatar
    One theory about why BB10 failed isn't discussed here because its not popular - that there isn't anything special about BB10 or BlackBerry technology. There is always the idea around here that BlackBerry might be able to overcome its market position by doing things better than the competition. But, what if the competition is really good at what they do and is, in fact, better at innovation, strategy, operations, marketing, etc.? What if their customers are just as loyal?
    Shlooky, techvisor, TGR1 and 1 others like this.
    09-28-15 11:11 AM
  16. Soulstream's Avatar
    As the Priv will be using "standard" Google Android, to gain GPS, can the Hub *ever* be incorporated into the OS?

    Won't it *always* have to be a separate App?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Simple answer: yes. Samsung has done similar things for some time now with adding to Android "multi-window" capability (running 2 apps side by side).

    The problem is that unlike BB10 no other Android phone will have the hub, so app devs have no reason to code their apps for hub support. So it being integrated in the OS is pointless.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-28-15 03:30 PM
  17. bhrgvr's Avatar
    Simple answer: yes. Samsung has done similar things for some time now with adding to Android "multi-window" capability (running 2 apps side by side).

    The problem is that unlike BB10 no other Android phone will have the hub, so app devs have no reason to code their apps for hub support. So it being integrated in the OS is pointless.
    If the app makers don't do it maybe BlackBerry can or would have coded the hub to recognize any app installed and call the API for updates as notifications. Quite possible!!!

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-15 04:38 PM
  18. ADGrant's Avatar
    One theory about why BB10 failed isn't discussed here because its not popular - that there isn't anything special about BB10 or BlackBerry technology. There is always the idea around here that BlackBerry might be able to overcome its market position by doing things better than the competition. But, what if the competition is really good at what they do and is, in fact, better at innovation, strategy, operations, marketing, etc.? What if their customers are just as loyal?
    It's very clear that the competition's customers are more loyal (Apple's are probably the most loyal).
    09-29-15 07:44 AM
  19. paranee2's Avatar
    Guys
    Whole problem is apps for hardware die
    So insted of focus on moving to android or window os ios
    Why customers want to move to BlackBerry if other company doing the same business have better hardware n etc.

    So their issues is apps
    So either better fix the damp Brower and accommodate everything through Brower like desktop
    Or how Microsoft doing hire or buy a company to design a api that convert their code doesn't matter which platform they write. In very simple form not host a class or seminor.




    Posted via CB10
    09-29-15 08:19 AM
  20. KAM1138's Avatar
    He has said he isn't emotional about hardware.... His job is to make money.
    If that is what he thinks then he's a failure already. The goal is to make money, but his job is to manage a company that produces something. Classic misunderstanding that leads people to make stupid decisions by overly focusing on just finance.

    Thus is where the common attack on "bean counters" comes from. Not that bean counters aren't needed, but they should advise, not create policy. I think it is abundantly clear that Chen is a bean counter at heart and his capabilities seem limited to that.

    KAM
    09-29-15 06:45 PM
  21. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    It's called, sell off... If android succeeds and it won't.. Becaus of bb stupidity and lack of retail relations. Hardware division sold to google. End game. Then software and enterprise to someone else. No bb devices by 2017.
    Last edited by diehardbbuser; 09-30-15 at 10:19 AM.
    09-29-15 07:06 PM
  22. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Hardware division sold to google.
    There really isn't a hardware division to sell to Google. Google doesn't want BB10, though it might be interested in BES and QNX. Google might want some of the smartphone patents, but Google has no use for hardware designers (they have manufacturing partners for that), and BB has no manufacturing, so what would BB "sell"?
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-30-15 08:04 PM
  23. Burton79's Avatar
    I think BlackBerry would sell the pkb rights which would allow google to try and take a shot at the inroads the iPhones have made into corporate. The high security phones used by world leaders are the last real thing that BlackBerry could brag about with any credibility.

    Posted via CB10
    10-01-15 05:17 AM
  24. crucial bbq's Avatar
    In the very recent webinar, Chief Security Officer Kliedermacher stated that they were going to continue with BB10. There was no indication of whether this would be with security updates only or if a BB10.4 can be expected or if even a new BB10 device will be released; so don't get your hopes up. The scope of the webinar and question was security, so he could have just meant continued BB10 support through BES12. He essentially only said that they were going to continue to do new things with BB10, whatever that may mean.


    There are two camps out there:

    1) those that feel that even though BlackBerry had one tenth the advertising budget of its competitors, if they had done a better job with it, customers and developers would have come to BB10 in droves (or at least sufficiently), and

    2) those who feel that developers were content and dug-in with two ecosystems, and weren't going to come over regardless, and therefore it was discovered fairly early that spending big advertising dollars was pointless when there wasn't an ecosystem to offer with BB10 - which is what most consumers want.

    It should also be noted that some people suggest part of the problem was not just marketing, but the mix of devices offered. I would counter immediately with the fact that the writing was on the wall with respect to developer buy-in less than 6 months after the launch of the Z10 / Q10 - well before the need for their replacements.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2639
    According to IDC the reason why developers shied away from BB10 was because the legacy OS, BBOS 7, was out-shipping BB10 by like 2:1 well into the first year of BB10.

    What ever the reason it should be noted that BlackBerry went from ~13% of the marketshare in 2011 to 0.3% in, well, today. I also don't think that the focus on emerging markets helped, either.

    I don't know about in other countries but here in the U.S., outside of that Super Bowl commercial, there has been literally no advertisements that I am aware of and unless one follows tech blogs/journalism--which the overwhelming majority of people do not--it is easy to see how the general public was not aware, is not aware, or simply does not care that BlackBerry is still around.

    I mean, I participate in another forum that is focused more on tech, computers, the Internet and so on but also has a smart phone board. Since 2013, nearly all questions, "what phone should I get". vs., and so on are Android (read: Samsung and to a lesser extent LG) and the iPhone. Once in a while something about Windows Phone pops up. And these are average people, not techies, not fanboys, and so on.
    10-01-15 12:53 PM
  25. Tatwi's Avatar
    One theory about why BB10 failed isn't discussed here because its not popular - that there isn't anything special about BB10 or BlackBerry technology. There is always the idea around here that BlackBerry might be able to overcome its market position by doing things better than the competition. But, what if the competition is really good at what they do and is, in fact, better at innovation, strategy, operations, marketing, etc.? What if their customers are just as loyal?
    Usability wise, in my experience with bb10 and Android 4.4.4, I do believe that BlackBerry 10 has several features that make it special. Enough that I would rather use bb10, because it's just nicer to use on a daily basis. Here are some,

    Quick settings menu is way better - more options, faster to use said options, better layout, faster to open.

    Hub - using the hub is less fiddly and ergonomically better than doing the same things on Android in various apps.

    Remember - for those of us who don't like "cloud apps", the BlackBerry Remember app is getting nice.

    Music, pictures, video apps - these are nice built in apps that are considerably better than what came with my moto-e (which is stock Android). No ads, no junk, just nice, feature rich aps.

    Media sharing - the UI for sharing media is standardized throughout the OS and apps and it is particularly excellent. Easy to use, consistent. The polar opposite of Windows Phone and a lot cleaner than android 4.4.4.

    UI Gesture Navigation - I very much prefer getting around BB10, due to how natural it is. I didn't hate using the button driven Android 4.4.4 interface when I used it for a few months, but I found it felt clunky by comparison.

    There are other things too, but I have stuff to do....

    Posted via CB10
    FalkirkEagle likes this.
    10-01-15 01:16 PM
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