10-01-15 04:51 PM
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  1. playpen007's Avatar
    Chen was right; we're in the business to maximize profit and minimize loss. I like the Priv but will wait to find out about security first before committing buying two of them. The only thing I don't like about BlackBerry is, it always give a vague date. It has never give an actual date for us to look forward to. It should tell us by now, it is coming in October 1st or November 1st instead of saying late in the year. Yeah... more like Dec. 31.
    09-25-15 12:21 PM
  2. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    He came in 9 months after the Bb10 launch and did nothing to try to make BB10 successful, or change the image of BlackBerry.
    BB10 was dead on arrival (DoA), then. It still wasn't Chen's fault.

    BB10 survived a lot longer than most techies thought it would. BB10 is really no different from other poor performing products like WebOS or Microsoft Kin or Windows RT. BB10 was a miracle in its own way.
    Last edited by sentimentGX4; 09-25-15 at 12:43 PM.
    09-25-15 12:31 PM
  3. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    BB10 was dead on arrival (DoA), then. It still wasn't Chen's fault.
    Exactly.
    Even if BB10 would have arrived with all the features of 10.2.1 in Spring 2013 on competitive hardware (5", Full HD, Quad Core), competitively priced, a success wouldn't have been guaranteed as Google and Apple were already too strong.
    Now have a look how it launched: the OS a total unfinished mess, old hardware, overpriced devices. Chen has got nothing to do with that. And Heins? Well his job could be best described with: Mission Impossible. If you ask me: Basillie and Lazaridis are the ones to to blame. They underestimated the Iphone and the Rise of Touch-only devices with advanced operating systems.
    JeepBB, phuoc, Blacklatino and 5 others like this.
    09-25-15 12:39 PM
  4. Calvin8181's Avatar
    He is trying to save the company! Let it be, if you want BlackBerry, you must respect their decision!

    I am going for the slider...... !

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-15 12:40 PM
  5. Uzi's Avatar
    No link because it's just happened on Call.

    If it sells, Chen happy to replace BB10 with android and its also much cheaper to make an android device - he also pretty much confirmed the Driver theory - that he likes android because he doesn't have to spend money on drivers.

    If anyone cannot see the writing on the wall at this point, please email me about some excellent swamp-front real estate I have for sale.

    Chen happy to replace BB10 with android as long as it sells-11-.jpg
    09-25-15 01:22 PM
  6. ljfong's Avatar
    He came in 9 months after the Bb10 launch and did nothing to try to make BB10 successful, or change the image of BlackBerry. He basically soft launched the Z30, killed off everything but the Passport, a low selling device, and took over a year to slap a tool belt on a Q10 and said it was what people wanted (wrong!), and then made a Leap. He has been buying software revenue and killing hardware.

    Posted via Z30
    Not surprising. Chen never had any confidence in BB10 so he ended up doing what he was doing, made a few devices in the hope that maybe, just maybe one of them caught fire and re-ignited the hardware division and BB10. The idea was to show that BlackBerry was still committed to BB10 and hopefully it would all work out in the end, in the mean time, work hard on backup plans. We are seeing one of the backup plans in the form of BlackBerry Priv. Oh, and buying revenue to shore up revenue target too.

    Like another poster said, BB10 has been about as successful as WebOS, Microsoft Kin, Windows RT and it won out by staying in the market for this long.
    Blacklatino and JeepBB like this.
    09-25-15 01:36 PM
  7. curves2000's Avatar
    With regards to the comment on Blackberry not needing to spend money on drivers, can someone please explain and elaborate?? I am trying to make sense of that comment from the call earlier today.


    One of the things than John Chen has tried to do is take as much cost and responsibility for the hardware division out of Blackberry's hands and hand them over to others. This is to free up cash for the software business and other future accusations.

    Thanks for the assistance

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-15 04:16 PM
  8. 6stringriffs's Avatar
    With regards to the comment on Blackberry not needing to spend money on drivers, can someone please explain and elaborate?? I am trying to make sense of that comment from the call earlier today.


    One of the things than John Chen has tried to do is take as much cost and responsibility for the hardware division out of Blackberry's hands and hand them over to others. This is to free up cash for the software business and other future accusations.

    Thanks for the assistance

    Posted via CB10
    Let me try...

    Drivers are software products. You have to pay developers to write code to create drivers. Then you have to pay testers to to test them. This type of intellectual labor ain't cheap. Especially if technical SW people are in short supply and in big demand. You have to pay them a lot of money.
    curves2000 and ChainPunch like this.
    09-25-15 04:22 PM
  9. curves2000's Avatar
    Let me try...

    Drivers are software products. You have to pay developers to write code to create drivers. Then you have to pay testers to to test them. This type of intellectual labor ain't cheap. Especially if technical SW people are in short supply and in big demand. You have to pay them a lot of money.


    Ok this makes sense now. In essence it's another expense that Blackberry wouldn't need to incur in large amounts if they transitioned from BB10 to a Android OS?



    Posted via CB10
    09-25-15 04:53 PM
  10. JeepBB's Avatar
    Ok this makes sense now. In essence it's another expense that Blackberry wouldn't need to incur in large amounts if they transitioned from BB10 to a Android OS?

    Posted via CB10
    Yes.

    The drivers are lumps of code that allow the OS to talk to the hardware. The expected hardware in the slider is much the same as hardware already in other phones, including other phones running Android. So, the drivers to connect Android to the hardware already exist and can be purchased/licensed by BB for little cost.

    If BB stayed with BB10, someone would need to write the drivers to connect BB10 to the hardware. Driver development can be tricky, needs people with deep knowledge of the hardware, and costs money. There was a post stating that BB was quoted a million dollars for someone to develop the drivers to connect BB10 to the hardware - I don't know if that figure is accurate, but it doesn't really matter; licensing "standard" Android drivers is always going to be cheaper than writing custom BB10 drivers.
    Eumaeus and GokhanYilmaz like this.
    09-25-15 05:12 PM
  11. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Let me try...

    Drivers are software products. You have to pay developers to write code to create drivers. Then you have to pay testers to to test them. This type of intellectual labor ain't cheap. Especially if technical SW people are in short supply and in big demand. You have to pay them a lot of money.
    I'd just like to add that drivers are software products required in order to have hardware functioning with the OS.

    So, for example, a camera won't work with a phone without the proper drivers. Hence if Blackberry is unwilling to pay for BB10 driver support they can't build a phone with BB10 at all because the CPU, camera, display, etc. would not work.
    09-25-15 05:15 PM
  12. TheAuthority's Avatar
    "There is continued demand for our flagship BlackBerry 10 devices like BlackBerry Passport and Classic by consumers, enterprises and regulated industries. These devices combined with our network offer peerless security and productivity advantages. Theyre not going away. BlackBerry is offering a new option for those customers who want the apps ecosystem to help them stay productive and engaged in their personal lives, and the security and productivity they demand at work."

    BlackBerry and Android: Expanding Our World | Inside BlackBerry
    09-25-15 07:11 PM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Component manufacturers have no choice but to offer Android drivers for the hardware they create - without those drivers, that hardware wouldn't sell (some competitor would happily take their sales instead), and there's no question that someone will use those components to make an Android phone. It's simply the cost of doing business.

    But when another OS needs drivers, the company responsible for that OS has to pay the hardware manufacturer for the drivers (in most cases - sometimes the manufacturer will release enough information for the company to write their own drivers, but this is the exception). This worked exactly the same way on the desktop, except instead of Android, you had Windows being the volume OS leader and de facto standard that you had to be compatible with.

    Obviously no one else is asking for BB10 drivers for cameras, sensors, SoCs, encryption chips, fingerprint readers, etc., so if BB wants them, they have to pay for them. That's just one of many costs that a 3rd/4th/5th/etc Place platform has to bear to remain competitive. Chen simply isn't willing to spend that money again. The last time he did so was for the Passport (all other devices have used Qualcomm S4s), and the sales just weren't there.

    By going with Android, there are zero driver costs, and zero SDK development costs (or, for that matter, no real costs for supporting developers at all), because that's all handled by Google, which is the same reason other Android manufacturers use Android.

    BB will still have plenty of extra costs, because they are using a different (though compatible) Android kernel and because they have to develop all of their "BB Experience" apps for Android, but a huge number of costs that they'd have for a BB10 phone simply won't exist for the Priv. Hardware drivers are one of those costs.
    09-25-15 10:51 PM
  14. bhrgvr's Avatar
    Chen didn't ruin it. The market did. (and Heins/Balsillie/Lazaridis). By the time Chen stepped in, the ship already sailed.
    Actually the writing on the wall was there even before TH came on board

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-15 10:56 PM
  15. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Actually the writing on the wall was there even before TH came on board

    Posted via CB10
    I tend to agree.
    09-25-15 11:09 PM
  16. bakron1's Avatar
    He is trying to save the company! Let it be, if you want BlackBerry, you must respect their decision!

    I am going for the slider...... !

    Posted via CB10
    I agree 100% and yes I will miss OS10, but if the decision to go the Android route will sell devices and keep the hardware division alive, then so be it. I am buying two of them as soon as they are available.

    What everyone fails to see is that the device will still have the Blackberry name on it and be a niche device with features that other Android devices don't have and thats good enough for me.
    DolemiteDONS and BeautyEh like this.
    09-26-15 06:13 AM
  17. LuisCast's Avatar
    ...correction: the ship was already sinking
    Maxxxpower likes this.
    09-26-15 06:24 AM
  18. Alexandre Faustino's Avatar
    Component manufacturers have no choice but to offer Android drivers for the hardware they create - without those drivers, that hardware wouldn't sell (some competitor would happily take their sales instead), and there's no question that someone will use those components to make an Android phone. It's simply the cost of doing business.

    But when another OS needs drivers, the company responsible for that OS has to pay the hardware manufacturer for the drivers (in most cases - sometimes the manufacturer will release enough information for the company to write their own drivers, but this is the exception). This worked exactly the same way on the desktop, except instead of Android, you had Windows being the volume OS leader and de facto standard that you had to be compatible with.

    Obviously no one else is asking for BB10 drivers for cameras, sensors, SoCs, encryption chips, fingerprint readers, etc., so if BB wants them, they have to pay for them. That's just one of many costs that a 3rd/4th/5th/etc Place platform has to bear to remain competitive. Chen simply isn't willing to spend that money again. The last time he did so was for the Passport (all other devices have used Qualcomm S4s), and the sales just weren't there.

    By going with Android, there are zero driver costs, and zero SDK development costs (or, for that matter, no real costs for supporting developers at all), because that's all handled by Google, which is the same reason other Android manufacturers use Android.

    BB will still have plenty of extra costs, because they are using a different (though compatible) Android kernel and because they have to develop all of their "BB Experience" apps for Android, but a huge number of costs that they'd have for a BB10 phone simply won't exist for the Priv. Hardware drivers are one of those costs.
    Ok i understand that, but why not use old hardware seen on Classic or Passport to create a BB10 slider? After all the BB10 runs smoothly on that type of hardware and i don't think BB10 fans complaint about that. Get things done it's our top priority, not gaming.
    09-26-15 06:32 AM
  19. Uzi's Avatar
    Ok i understand that, but why not use old hardware seen on Classic or Passport to create a BB10 slider? After all the BB10 runs smoothly on that type of hardware and i don't think BB10 fans complaint about that. Get things done it's our top priority, not gaming.
    I think because that's not BlackBerry top priority
    sanjk1 likes this.
    09-26-15 06:46 AM
  20. Allanon89's Avatar
    BB10 was dead on arrival (DoA), then. It still wasn't Chen's fault.
    Yep, I wonder how people can fail to see that BB has been doomed since the day it was founded. Enough with that.
    Actually the whole universe is bound to die one day, so why bother?
    09-26-15 06:47 AM
  21. FalkirkEagle's Avatar
    I don't care much for the 'Priv' name. It rhymes with 'shiv', LOL. But I do see where BlackBerry are coming from with the name. They want to position their Android slider phone as a secure Android device, in a market where the vast majority of Android devices are somewhat insecure.
    09-26-15 09:16 AM
  22. JeepBB's Avatar
    Yep, I wonder how people can fail to see that BB has been doomed since the day it was founded. Enough with that.
    Actually the whole universe is bound to die one day, so why bother?
    Timescales?

    The universe has a few billion years to go before it dies. BB10 and the BB hardware division... don't have nearly that long.

    The trend of the historical device sales graph in another thread shows that BB will be selling zero phones within the next year. It's good that Chen thinks it's worth a last throw of the Android dice to maybe slow that slide towards the inevitable handset oblivion instead of just shrugging and walking the company slowly over the cliff while holding "true" to the BB10 dream.

    As futile gestures go, sticking with BB10 any further is right up there!

    An Android handset that is even a minor success in the market might buy Chen enough time to continue to build the software side of the company and complete the transition away from hardware. I suspect that's why Chen is bothering... it's a CEO-thing probably.
    techvisor and southlander like this.
    09-26-15 10:14 AM
  23. Tatwi's Avatar
    Let's not forget that Android runs on the Linux kernel, which is why it has great driver support. QNX and BSD don't have the leadership, community, and corporate backing that Linux does, despite BlackBerry owning QNX and Apple / Sony / others using BSD.

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-15 11:10 AM
  24. TheAuthority's Avatar
    Oh yea monolithic kernels are great when one rubbish "supported" app takes down the entire os and crashes the device.
    09-26-15 11:40 AM
  25. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Jonh Chen or any other CEO would be happy to put MS-DOS if it sold well.
    09-26-15 11:41 AM
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