04-04-14 07:22 PM
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  1. NYC10065's Avatar
    From this morning's Wall Street Journal following the BBRY quarterly results analysts call.

    BlackBerry’s Chen Does Apparent About-Face on Handsets - Canada Real Time - WSJ

    Just more proof that like previous BBRY executives, Chen will stick to the "strategy on the fly" style of leadership in Waterloo.

    So, BB7 is back...more new BB7 handsets.

    Focusing on "prosumers" is out..."touting" upcoming launches of devices "aimed at emerging markets" (aka cheap phones designed to compete against entry level Android devices).

    The "Classic" device targeted at BBRY's "traditional business customer base".

    I don't get it.

    Didn't we hear for years that the market for BBOS/BB7 was falling and doomed hence we needed BB10?

    Then BB10 failed (to wit, BB7 sales continue to outstrip BB10 sales) so we're now back to BB7 or BB7 and BB10 side-by-side.

    All I can say is: Wow...does anyone know what they're plans are in Waterloo anymore?
    03-28-14 11:58 AM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Not new BB7 devices. A new production run of the already existing Bold series, though it's hard to say which. No one listens ore reads apparently, It's even right in the article.

    Mr. Chen said Friday that the Canadian smartphone maker plans to relaunch production of its older BlackBerry 7 mobile device because of strong global demand.
    03-28-14 12:02 PM
  3. cgk's Avatar
    Confusingly the 'Classic' is the Q20 renamed - it's a BB10 device and the first of three BB10 qwerty devices.

    Not new BB7 devices. No one listens, smh.
    To be honest, I think BBRY has made this more confusing than it needs to with it's odd naming strategy.
    JeepBB, wincyUt and Drew808 like this.
    03-28-14 12:02 PM
  4. gokulesh's Avatar
    So many threads being started about OS device so my comments from another thread. Before we throw Chen to wolves.

    Background:

    1. I listened to the entire call and QA.

    2. My company as of a month ago was still buying the 9900 and have just recently approved the BB10 devices; all 3 as in Q and Z10 and Z30.

    3. Every upgrade at my company has been to a bb10 device as they became available. Not ONE person has asked for the legacy device.

    Facts:
    - They are restarting the bold 9900 line.
    - Buying on a cost variable model versus previously it was firm commitment. Chen specifically said they will not lose money on the hardware in this setup.
    The deal is with Wisteron(?) not Foxconn

    My thoughts:

    - enterprise wants bes 12 before moving to BB10 and so staying with 9900. Chen's comments lead me to believe this + experience in my company.
    - bulk of BB10 sales are consumer. Why? Announced enterprise #s are small and companies like mine are just starting to move to bb10. It took between BlackBerry and our IT department a year to test and roll out BES10. The reason we did it is because we were on an older bes then 5 and we were in a need of an upgrade. If we were on bes 5 we would have waited until Nov for bes 12 before going to bb10 devices.

    - Chen has probably been hearing that the enterprise transition will likely begin in earnest once bes 12 is out. And he needs to keep his clients happy till then with device replacement when they break

    - couple this with the good deal they have struck from a cost perspective for producing 9900 and it's a win win for BlackBerry

    My conclusion is that until upcoming Q4 legacy will outsell bb10. Z3 and Q20 in consumer space will accelerate (how much is anyone's guess hoping for a lot)

    And that Q1 is when the tide will turn decisively as bes 12 and bb10 accelerate.

    G

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-14 12:05 PM
  5. cloetechris's Avatar
    What does BlackBerry actualy want now? I know that the sales of the Native devices are in majority, but what about BB10? Is the BlackBerry sales only because of BIS then?

    http://forums.crackberry.com/general...-split-918895/
    03-28-14 12:06 PM
  6. NYC10065's Avatar
    Not new BB7 devices.
    Yes -- I understood that. Not new BB7 models but restarting BB7 production lines to produce more, new BB7 Bold 9900 handsets. What I clearly meant was continuing production of a model that was supposed to be phased out not launching brand new BB7 models. The problem with this strategy is that people seem to forget that BB10 was launched because BBOS was dying and failing to complete effectively against iOS and Android. We can debate whether BB10 was successful or not but there is no debate that BB7 was on its way out. So what has changed that BBRY has decided to restart production of BB7 devices?

    Don't get me wrong, I loved my Bold 9900 but didn't we all live through the same experience where BB users were abandoning BB7 for iOS and Android because BB7 wasn't doing it anymore and that the user base for BB7 was shrinking and shrinking fast?
    03-28-14 12:15 PM
  7. crazigee's Avatar
    Don't get me wrong, I loved my Bold 9900 but didn't we all live through the same experience where BB users were abandoning BB7 for iOS and Android because BB7 wasn't doing it anymore and that the user base for BB7 was shrinking and shrinking fast?
    I don't get it either. They should be focusing on converting those people to BB10. This doesn't show me that they have any confidence in their new OS.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    NYC10065 and Poirots Progeny like this.
    03-28-14 01:30 PM
  8. JasW's Avatar
    I don't get it either. They should be focusing on converting those people to BB10. This doesn't show me that they have any confidence in their new OS.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    So many people are missing the obvious here. Handsets are almost an afterthought. Chen is smart enough to know that the company is not going to survive if its focus is on producing devices, whether they are BB7 or BB10 devices. The focus is on providing enterprise services for whatever devices a business is using. The market has clearly spoken: virtually no one wants a BlackBerry device. He knows he can't unring that bell.
    mithrazor, JeepBB, KemKev and 1 others like this.
    03-28-14 02:00 PM
  9. early2bed's Avatar
    BB10 is about transitioning to a platform for the future and new customers.
    BBOS is about keeping current customers satisfied in the present.

    If you do the first, you are screwed if you can't execute the transition. If you do the second, you can keep selling some phones but ultimately are screwed as your customers seek modern features.

    If you do both then you are really screwed because you maintain a horribly fragmented platform where developers have to develop and maintain two different apps to market to your small user base. Its 200% more work (100% for BBOS, another 100% for BB10) for about 1/30th of the market share for either iOS and Android.
    NYC10065, Drew808 and JeepBB like this.
    03-28-14 02:06 PM
  10. NYC10065's Avatar
    BB10 is about transitioning to a platform for the future and new customers.
    BBOS is about keeping current customers satisfied in the present.

    If you do the first, you are screwed if you can't execute the transition. If you do the second, you can keep selling some phones but ultimately are screwed as your customers seek modern features.

    If you do both then you are really screwed because you maintain a horribly fragmented platform where developers have to develop and maintain two different apps to market to your small user base. Its 200% more work (100% for BBOS, another 100% for BB10) for about 1/30th of the market share for either iOS and Android.
    Well said! This has been the trouble with BBRY for the past few years and it seems that rather than push in a bold, new direction, Chen is just prolonging the agony...perhaps long enough so he can get as much out of it as he can.
    03-28-14 02:22 PM
  11. milo53's Avatar
    Low hanging fruit folks! Now off to California on my Corporate Gas Guzzling Luxury Jet, Waterloo is too depressing.
    NYC10065 likes this.
    03-28-14 02:56 PM
  12. tchocky77's Avatar
    This company is flailing about and drowning.
    Drew808 and NYC10065 like this.
    03-28-14 03:24 PM
  13. anon1727506's Avatar
    Mr. Chen said Friday that the Canadian smartphone maker plans to relaunch production of its older BlackBerry 7 mobile device because of strong global demand
    Strong global demand compared to what?? Even BB7 is sliding down that slippery slope, but I guess you sell devices where you can when you get to this point.

    It's too late now, but the whole transition from one platform to another was handled wrong. Starting over with a clean slate sound good, but ignoring your existing user base and just assuming that they wont' take the opportunity to move to some other more popular and "compatible" platform was arrogant.
    NYC10065 and Drew808 like this.
    03-28-14 03:30 PM
  14. TGR1's Avatar
    Well said! This has been the trouble with BBRY for the past few years and it seems that rather than push in a bold, new direction, Chen is just prolonging the agony...perhaps long enough so he can get as much out of it as he can.
    It smells as if there is nothing left in the stable except the horse's passing of its last meal and this is the best John Chen can do in the short term. Lots of questions. Are we seeing hints of the EOL of BB10? But what then to power the renewed push to enterprise? BBOS? Android? Doesn't seem to keep any of BBRY's historical strengths.

    And if the BBOS phones come back, what worth is the Jakarta phone? Has that phone's potential just been harpooned/semi-Osborned?
    NYC10065 likes this.
    03-28-14 03:36 PM
  15. donmateo's Avatar
    BB7 devices sell because they are replacements for corporate phones. Many companies are using previous BES versions so until they upgrade to BES 10 or higher they will continue to use BB7 exclusively.

    The problem is that companies are not upgrading their BES quickly enough to increase demand for bb10. This will come soon hopefully.

    Moreover, I hope the full touch high end is still coming at year end. QWERTY is important but the Z10 and Z30 can't be the only "high end" phones available especially knowing the connection limitations of the Z30 on certain networks.

    Posted via CB10
    jaydee5799 likes this.
    03-28-14 03:38 PM
  16. early2bed's Avatar
    Chen said they were going to upgrade BES so that clients could use it to manage both legacy and BB10 devices. One could reasonably ask why they didn't do that originally. Either it's a significant technical challenge and won't work very well or they could have done it but were using BES as leverage to get people to upgrade to BB10.

    Either way I wouldn't be happy as a client. The latter means you tried to screw me and the former means you're going to screw me with a half-assed solution.
    NYC10065 and Drew808 like this.
    03-28-14 03:46 PM
  17. NYC10065's Avatar
    This company is flailing about and drowning.
    That's the part I really don't get. Chen is supposed to be smarter than the previous bunch. Prem Watsa is supposed to be smart. So why go down this road?

    As the saying goes, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    Well, BB7 was on the fast track to oblivion so why keep producing more when you need to, one would think, support BB10 and force the transition?

    It just looks to me that BBRY and Chen have cast a major vote of non-confidence in BB10 by doing this. If you were a developer, would you risk spending any time or money on developing a BB10 app with this type of confusion going on? One of the major criticisms of BB10 is the dearth of apps so why make it even worse with hamfisted decisions?

    Does prolonging the pain of BB7 with its rapidly shrinking user base help anything other than perhaps the service revenues that BBOS generates for BBRY?

    Just like Heins, Chen seems to be flailing and failing and no one over in Waterloo can seem to make up their minds about where BBRY is headed.

    - One day it's consumer with BB10, then;
    - It's prosumer, then;
    - Chen announces low end consumer devices (aka Jakarta), then;
    - it's BES10, then;
    - it's BBRY is jetisonning hardware because hardware is not BBRY's main focus for the future, then;
    - it's hardware will be important and we are restarting production of BB7 devices and launching a slew of low end devices for the developing world AND launching new, QWERTY focused high end devices for the "traditional" BBRY market which was shrinking and continues to do so.

    Chen has made more pivots than Heins that BBRY observers should sue for whiplash!

    It's truly sad since BBRY should be a great company, doing great things and going places. Mismanagement and insanity have really thrown BBRY into the sh*tter and hundreds, perhaps thousands, more careers and families will be impacted by bad management.
    03-28-14 04:08 PM
  18. Shlooky's Avatar
    BB7 devices sell because they are replacements for corporate phones. Many companies are using previous BES versions so until they upgrade to BES 10 or higher they will continue to use BB7 exclusively.

    The problem is that companies are not upgrading their BES quickly enough to increase demand for bb10. This will come soon hopefully.

    Moreover, I hope the full touch high end is still coming at year end. QWERTY is important but the Z10 and Z30 can't be the only "high end" phones available especially knowing the connection limitations of the Z30 on certain networks.

    Posted via CB10
    And those same companies are adopting BYOD. So they will migrate to other platforms reducing the need for BB7 or BB10.
    03-28-14 04:23 PM
  19. g33kphr33k's Avatar
    Ok, something is blindingly obvious :

    Chen wasn?t on board when BB10 was created. It was Mr Baked Beans that launched OS10 half baked, the PBOS half baked and tried to force upgrades using BES10 which was incompatible with legacy.

    Now he's gone, Chen has been left with a mess. Many corporates are happy with OS7 as they function perfectly and BES5 is deeply embedded in a companies infrastructure and changes at banks and blue chip corporates can take years. To help with this, Chen has gotten BES12 developed so that a corporate and upgrade one part and then allow to run legacy and BB10 hand in hand while it gets phased out.

    In the immediate future, OS7 isn't going away in the corporate due to BES5 and companies not wanting to change a well oiled machine, so Chen needs to placate these people/companies and giving them access to legacy kit until they are ready to move is the simple solution. A run of old devices keeps corporates happy, possibly government too and keeps the BIS/BES money rolling in while they re-approach the transition to Blackberry 10.

    Phew, I hope that makes sense? Chen isn't trying to pull the wool or act shady and go back on what he's said before. He's trying to keep the company on track as well as enable to carry the older generation for awhile.

    Z10 until Z30
    03-28-14 04:37 PM
  20. cgk's Avatar
    I would have laughed six months ago but would anyone be surprised that if the next device launch Belfastdispatcher walked out on stage with John Chen and announced BBOS 8?

    sent from my bright red Nexus 5
    03-28-14 04:41 PM
  21. jaydee5799's Avatar
    BB7 devices sell because they are replacements for corporate phones. Many companies are using previous BES versions so until they upgrade to BES 10 or higher they will continue to use BB7 exclusively.

    The problem is that companies are not upgrading their BES quickly enough to increase demand for bb10. This will come soon hopefully.

    Moreover, I hope the full touch high end is still coming at year end. QWERTY is important but the Z10 and Z30 can't be the only "high end" phones available especially knowing the connection limitations of the Z30 on certain networks.

    Posted via CB10
    This^^^^^^
    Z30 can't be the end of the full-touch line....we need the Z50 or Z70 or whatever comes next!!!!
    03-28-14 04:47 PM
  22. ccbs's Avatar
    It is blatantly obvious that BES12 is what John Chen is betting on to cause a large scale corporate upgrade to BB10. Since it is still 7 months away, he is trying to make replacement for the clientele till they switch over to bb10.
    It is also clear to him that consumer market is not going to be easy win for BBRY in the near future. Until he can get the company right, there should not be any play in the high cost, overly crowded, yet increasingly commoditize consumer market.
    undone and Always smiling like this.
    03-28-14 04:53 PM
  23. NYC10065's Avatar
    Until he can get the company right, there should not be any play in the high cost, overly crowded, yet increasingly commoditize consumer market.
    Then it might be too late because "until he can get the company right" is a long way off. BES12 may well be the answer but that will mean a far different BBRY than it is today.
    03-28-14 05:34 PM
  24. heartmoves's Avatar
    That's the part I really don't get. Chen is supposed to be smarter than the previous bunch. Prem Watsa is supposed to be smart. So why go down this road?

    As the saying goes, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    Well, BB7 was on the fast track to oblivion so why keep producing more when you need to, one would think, support BB10 and force the transition?

    It just looks to me that BBRY and Chen have cast a major vote of non-confidence in BB10 by doing this. If you were a developer, would you risk spending any time or money on developing a BB10 app with this type of confusion going on? One of the major criticisms of BB10 is the dearth of apps so why make it even worse with hamfisted decisions?

    Does prolonging the pain of BB7 with its rapidly shrinking user base help anything other than perhaps the service revenues that BBOS generates for BBRY?

    Just like Heins, Chen seems to be flailing and failing and no one over in Waterloo can seem to make up their minds about where BBRY is headed.

    - One day it's consumer with BB10, then;
    - It's prosumer, then;
    - Chen announces low end consumer devices (aka Jakarta), then;
    - it's BES10, then;
    - it's BBRY is jetisonning hardware because hardware is not BBRY's main focus for the future, then;
    - it's hardware will be important and we are restarting production of BB7 devices and launching a slew of low end devices for the developing world AND launching new, QWERTY focused high end devices for the "traditional" BBRY market which was shrinking and continues to do so.

    Chen has made more pivots than Heins that BBRY observers should sue for whiplash!

    It's truly sad since BBRY should be a great company, doing great things and going places. Mismanagement and insanity have really thrown BBRY into the sh*tter and hundreds, perhaps thousands, more careers and families will be impacted by bad management.
    While BlackBerry's strategy may not seem as clear as it could be, Chen is likely focused on re-building relationships with a prioritized set of customers and segments. Perhaps he is simply responding to customer requests/complaints arising from face to face meetings as a means of showing commitment to building sustainable business relationships with the decision makers he meets with during face to face sales calls. I suspect he is trying to exorcise the past ghosts of arrogance and abuse of power typical of market leaders/monopoly. The technology is half the battle which I feel BlackBerry has it handled. In the end, it's people who make things happen and Chen is trying to set a new tone of genuine care for the customer. He could be going the extra mile to address the short term needs of strategic customers as a way of ensuring future upgrades and sale of services. Nothing new in sales. It's all about the people and relationships. This I think is the reason he has a proven turnaround record and glad he is occupies the captain's chair on the bridge. Creating a people centered ecosystem from within is just as important as the technology.
    03-28-14 06:06 PM
  25. NYC10065's Avatar
    This I think is the reason he has a proven turnaround record and glad he is occupies the captain's chair on the bridge. Creating a people centered ecosystem from within is just as important as the technology.
    I sure hope you're right and there is some method to this madness. From where I sit, all I see if more of the same confusion, flailing and arrogance.

    Chen's communications are very similar to those of Heins. Lots of bravado and chest thumping (witness his interaction with T-Mobile's John Legere) but little real substance. On the one hand, he talks about making a bold decision to jettison hardware but then one short quarter later he talks about hardware being a key element to BBRY's profitability. It's just more confusion, hamfisted communications, lack of direction without a single, solitary sign of a real marketing and sales strategy emerging.

    If Chen is pursuing a strategy, he sure knows how to keep it from leaking (given his recent propensity to sue leakers) because it is so mysterious and incomprehensible that I'd hate for anyone investing in BBRY to actually bank on anything he or any of his team actually says.
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    03-28-14 07:05 PM
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