03-05-14 11:23 PM
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  1. rthonpm's Avatar
    Just wait until people realize that the Chinese have reverse-engineered the backdoors the NSA has installed into iOS. The government will switch back in a hurry.
    Tin foil hat much? Claiming the NSA has control over everything is the internet's version of the Free Mason conspiracy theories of old at this point; or if you prefer: the meme du jour.
    Nicholas Kathrein likes this.
    12-19-13 07:12 AM
  2. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Gunner
    You made some excellent points (except #5). Don't ruin it getting personal while debating.

    Yes, that goes for everyone else too. I don't want to break out my modstick.
    12-19-13 07:34 AM
  3. theblob's Avatar
    lol you have no idea how much money this government has wasted on BB products do you?

    The government gets their devices thru Rogers, and guess what? They get raped out the ***. They get no special deals.

    The whole having to buy Canadian because we are Canadian is so stupid it's not even funny.

    I hate the fact I have to go to a Canadian company and pay twice as much for a product that they're going to be getting from the US or another country in the first place.

    I'm sorry but I can't agree with the OP at all. Get used to it, times are changing, BlackBerry isn't the only one with security experts anymore.

    As much as I love BlackBerry, competition will only make them work harder and strive to be the better brand. Make people want to use the device because they want to, not because they're forced too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I almost feel honoured to be on the same side as the legendary Kris Simundson.
    And to add on what you said, the government pumping tax payers dollars into a business that frankly has failed time and time again is not where I want to see it going. Until they get their act together and get their **** straight, I'm honestly kind of glad the government decided to do this. Maybe this is the move that slaps BlackBerry in the face and says, "Hey wake the **** up! You just lost sales in your own country to one of your mobile phone rivals. Now, what are you going to do to change this?"
    12-19-13 07:42 AM
  4. BoldPreza's Avatar
    Using your logic, Oblama and all other Fed Depts.must use IOS because it is an American company. Also, being an American, I don't like the words force and must.
    I don't really give a Damn why Obama chooses what he does he isn't representing my country.

    The MP's of Canada chose to represent this country and yes in this case the should choose the Canadian option. If for no other reasons than its most secure, the better value and because it's Canadian.

    Posted via CB10
    KemKev, phylez, Gunner24 and 1 others like this.
    12-19-13 08:02 AM
  5. KemKev's Avatar
    Well if you follow Harper politics, he basically is a dictator, so why break from that tradition now,
    A really bad attempt at humour. I'm thinking you have no idea what it is like to live under a real dictator.
    phylez, Gunner24 and nothingworks like this.
    12-19-13 09:18 AM
  6. xanadome's Avatar
    Maybe the Canadian Government knows something ahead of us that we do not know?
    Perhaps they are sensing something imminent or inevitable, but have to be diplomatic and polite in the meantime, precisely because BBRY was an iconic Canadian company?
    Otherwise, they would not do anything against BBRY, bust should help as much as they could.
    Perhaps I am a bit too pessimistic and even cynical, I know, but .....
    12-19-13 09:31 AM
  7. xanadome's Avatar
    BTW, I am pessimistic, but no way do I want to see the demise of BBRY.
    After the Heins nightmare, I am very much looking forward to John Chen turning the company around.
    I want him to give me a super 9900, or a hybrid bold/Q10, or something closer to that concept. If this is not possible, at least more refined Q10.
    But this should be another subject for another day and another thread.
    phylez likes this.
    12-19-13 09:37 AM
  8. phylez's Avatar
    Again, the logic of buying Canadian to support Canadian when, as I say again, the government does not deal directly with BlackBerry for their devices but rather the carrier. That right now is Rogers, soon to be Telus.

    The government would actually same money on a device that's better massed produced and that they wouldn't need to go through a carrier for updates to the OS etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Uh... So the Canadian government should not buy a Canadian product through a Canadian supplier because, why? It's not directly from BlackBerry? They need to have a voice and data plan anyway so why not get a phone that is subsidized through the carrier? Instead you're suggesting that they buy from direct from Apple, unlocked/full price, and then get service from a Canadian carrier anyway?

    Following this logic, it makes more sense for someone to buy a $799-$999 iPhone then find a month to month cell phone plan or a pay-as-you-go plan (or even a 2 year contract) instead of getting a $0-$99 Q10, for example, on a 2 year contract? By the way, I say $0 because that's how much my Q10 cost me on my 2 year renewal with Bell Mobility. What a rip-off hey?

    Posted via CB10
    Gunner24 likes this.
    12-19-13 09:38 AM
  9. danprown's Avatar
    You do know that sales to foreign governments and corporations is BlackBerry's bloodline, don't you. This is how it all started for BlackBerry and it trickled down to consumers.

    If every country followed such rabid calls for protectionism, BlackBerry will return to being a company headquartered above a mall with the CEO and a bunch of engineers.

    Please use your heads people. BlackBerry needs open markets and open competition!


    I don't really give a Damn why Obama chooses what he does he isn't representing my country.

    The MP's of Canada chose to represent this country and yes in this case the should choose the Canadian option. If for no other reasons than its most secure, the better value and because it's Canadian.

    Posted via CB10
    nothingworks likes this.
    12-19-13 09:42 AM
  10. BBZ10wannabe's Avatar
    I'm the one who posted the original thread and I find it disappointing that BBRY no longer has the influence, negotiating skill etc.. to be able to lock down such an important (at least symbolically important) customer.

    While I doubt we can shame the BOIE (Board or Internal Economy) if they make this decision into reversing course, we can certainly try to get our most influential politicians on the record indicating if they support this choice and if they or any of their staff will be switching away from Blackberry and why? I agree that it will likely cost more to use iphone and if they cannot justify a business reason why their work requires them to use an iphone to be more efficient, why should they be allowed to choose? It is taxpayers money after all.
    milo53 and mike869 like this.
    12-19-13 09:59 AM
  11. GooberNS's Avatar
    Email sent!

    Posted via CB10
    Gunner24, phylez and mike869 like this.
    12-19-13 10:09 AM
  12. anon(5624621)'s Avatar
    You do know that sales to foreign governments and corporations is BlackBerry's bloodline, don't you. This is how it all started for BlackBerry and it trickled down to consumers.

    If every country followed such rabid calls for protectionism, BlackBerry will return to being a company headquartered above a mall with the CEO and a bunch of engineers.

    Please use your heads people. BlackBerry needs open markets and open competition!
    You make it sound like the ONLY reason to buy BlackBerry for government is nationalism. That's not at all true.

    Posted via CB10. Join C001A8DC6 for bento-inspired lunch ideas
    phylez, mike869 and Gunner24 like this.
    12-19-13 10:17 AM
  13. BoldPreza's Avatar
    You do know that sales to foreign governments and corporations is BlackBerry's bloodline, don't you. This is how it all started for BlackBerry and it trickled down to consumers.

    If every country followed such rabid calls for protectionism, BlackBerry will return to being a company headquartered above a mall with the CEO and a bunch of engineers.

    Please use your heads people. BlackBerry needs open markets and open competition!
    Again we are talking about different things. Right now this company is in dire straights and it's employees don't know if they will be collecting pay cheques in the coming months.

    Their government officials who take a lot of their money should at the very least show some support for their constituents.

    Generally I am not a protectionist, however in this case a line must be drawn as there is no reason for the government to switch devises. This is reinforced by all the other foreign governments that are showing continued support for the platform.

    On top of that I asked a question that not one of you people arguing against me has answered. What advantage do they gain by allowing the switch to iPhone given the intended purpose of the phones? What value can they present to their electorate that can justify turning on their home grown products?

    Posted via CB10
    John Pawling and mike869 like this.
    12-19-13 10:30 AM
  14. playboldbook's Avatar
    I almost feel honoured to be on the same side as the legendary Kris Simundson.
    And to add on what you said, the government pumping tax payers dollars into a business that frankly has failed time and time again is not where I want to see it going. Until they get their act together and get their **** straight, I'm honestly kind of glad the government decided to do this. Maybe this is the move that slaps BlackBerry in the face and says, "Hey wake the **** up! You just lost sales in your own country to one of your mobile phone rivals. Now, what are you going to do to change this?"
    Didn't seem to stop the Canadian government from bailing out the Auto industry, yes the jobs were in Canada but the companies are foreign, so why weren't they allowed to go under since auto makers seemed to screw things up as well.

    Supporting Canadian jobs does seem a priority of this Government, does Apple have a manufacturing plant in Canada, do they have their head office here? Or is it more a case of spoiled little brats getting their new toy for Christmas (well easter actually since it doesn't take effect until April 2014).
    Gunner24 and scrapmetal58 like this.
    12-19-13 10:41 AM
  15. anon1727506's Avatar
    If they are continuing to use BES10 for the BB10 devices, I assume that BES10 will be used to "secure" the iPhones also. So what are the "REAL" security issues of having an iPhone?

    This is the result of a six month trial program.... which I doubt included any "leaked" OS trials. This simple truth is people like iPhones, there are a number of applications out that are for iOS that BlackBerry nor Android have. And part of keeping talented people in a government job is keeping them happy, allowing a popular device (you do understand how popular it is) is a way to boost morale.

    Now maybe the result would be different if the trial were to start after the release of 10.2.1.xxx+, but you can't delay and delay and delay and then only provide a beta release and expect it to compete against other mature products. BB10 has potential, and potential is good enough for many here, but when big business and governments do trials... potential isn't one of the measurements used in making a decision.

    Now in six months, maybe those with the BB10 devices will have full Google Play (security issue for you security "nuts"?) and maybe they will show them off and people will decided on their own that they would rather have a BB10 device than an iPhone.

    If BlackBerry can't compete, then it doesn't deserve to be kept alive... even by Canadian taxpayers.
    BigBadWulf and Bsbudd like this.
    12-19-13 10:45 AM
  16. LP_Rigg's Avatar
    Maybe the Canadian Government knows something ahead of us that we do not know?
    Perhaps they are sensing something imminent or inevitable...
    In my experience governments are not nearly that prescient. In fact, they hardly have a clue of what has already happened.

    In any event, back on topic, there are some good points in the OP - I am not Canadian so I don't have a dog in the fight, but the first sentence said "...their staff to choose iPhones to conduct their personal business..." What exactly does this mean? Should any government be able to dictate what phone someone uses for their personal business? If I was Canadian, I would certainly be in favor of adopting BB for official business purposes.
    John Pawling likes this.
    12-19-13 10:50 AM
  17. John Pawling's Avatar
    Government and iPhones should never mix. What a joke, and to think the waist of money buying overpriced iPhones that have been proven to be unreliable in secure. Complete nonsense. BB10 is the only secure platform in the world.

    Hackers are going to have a field day with this lame iPhone decision.
    This reminds me of Obama saying that he is not allowed to use an iPhone due to security concerns...so he continues to use his BlackBerry.

    And now the entire German government is purchasing a slew of BlackBerry devices due to the recent disclosure of their chancellor getting her phone broken into.



    Posted via CB10 1.4.3 on Z10 10.2.0.429 on the Rogers Network
    scrapmetal58 likes this.
    12-19-13 10:55 AM
  18. chevpower394's Avatar
    Any good Canadian would at least give bb10 a chance, hopefully they realize this

    Posted Via CB10 - Q10SQN100-1/10.2.0.1803
    12-19-13 11:35 AM
  19. Mr.Conviviality's Avatar
    on a somewhat related matter....

    I remember Dalton McGuilty parading around with his iPhone prior to his departure, ironically talking about jobs in the KW area of Ontario!

    and,

    We have Barack Obama who always keeps his blackberry by his side

    Go figure...
    Gunner24 likes this.
    12-19-13 11:42 AM
  20. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    Uh... So the Canadian government should not buy a Canadian product through a Canadian supplier because, why? It's not directly from BlackBerry? They need to have a voice and data plan anyway so why not get a phone that is subsidized through the carrier? Instead you're suggesting that they buy from direct from Apple, unlocked/full price, and then get service from a Canadian carrier anyway?

    Following this logic, it makes more sense for someone to buy a $799-$999 iPhone then find a month to month cell phone plan or a pay-as-you-go plan (or even a 2 year contract) instead of getting a $0-$99 Q10, for example, on a 2 year contract? By the way, I say $0 because that's how much my Q10 cost me on my 2 year renewal with Bell Mobility. What a rip-off hey?

    Posted via CB10
    Those "2 year money grab" plans are different corporate and consumer side. So a Q10 would actually cost about $499.99 on a two year for the government.

    The big three barely subsidize anything for corporations and it's even worse for the plans.

    How many people in this thread actually work for a government or a large corporation, AND in a position of buying power.

    How many of you are ACTUAL security IT specialist?

    Again I ask, if the device is being deployed on a MDM like BES or a competitor than what does it matter? Security is based on the locking mechanism. A iPhone that has the locked down BES side is just as secure as a BlackBerry with BES.

    Don't forget a BlackBerry without BES is just as vulnerable as a Android/iOS device without BES.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Kris Simundson; 12-19-13 at 01:15 PM.
    theblob and BigBadWulf like this.
    12-19-13 12:44 PM
  21. rzanger's Avatar
    My hearts with you but it's a lost cause. Unless you were born in the fifties the whole concept of supporting Canadian first is dead. Having been born in that time I have gone through a lifetime of thinking that way but I think I finally capitulated with BlackBerry and having to seemingly force a Bestbuy salesnob to sell me a Q10. Of course maybe, just maybe, it was the person next to me buying an IPhone along with a case with a big Canadian flag on it. Funny thing is it's just another consumer electronics purchase, right or is it? It is up to consumers to decide whether buying Canadian first is important and all you have to do is look around you to see it is not important. There are very few other consumer items that are so visible as a smartphone so draw your own conclusions. Our government stands for free and open markets, a free and unsupported private sector when they can get away with it and after all it's just a phone. As long as we have customers for our commodities who cares or so the thinking goes. I still don't know what people are doing with their phones that a BB10 can't do but that must be just me. The only thing that has changed for me is when I need or want to buy something I now start my search online as far away from SK as I can get just out of spite. I really was compulsive about it to the point of not buying in AB to avoid the 5% SK sales tax even when I was in AB anyway, how messed up is that. Love the UK for clothes and shipping really isn't that bad but can't quite figure out what the whole import duty is all about for a government that loves open markets!!
    12-19-13 12:48 PM
  22. phylez's Avatar
    Those "2 year money grab" plans are different corporate and consumer side. So a Q10 would actually cost about $499.99 on a two year for the government.

    The big three barely subsidize anything for corporations and it's even worse for the plans.

    How many people in this thread actually work for a government or a large corporation, AND in a position of buying power.

    How many of you are ACTUAL security IT specialist?

    Again I ask, if the device is being deployed on a MDM like BES or a competitor than what does it matter? Security is based on the locking mechanism. A iPhone that has the locked down BES side is just as secure as a BlackBerry with BES.

    Don't forget a BlackBerry without BES is just as vulnerable as a Android/iOS device with BES.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Money grab? Perhaps, but what isn't these days? Releasing a "new" phone every 6 months isn't a money grab? I think that finger print sensor's security was cracked in under 48 hrs of release. Awesome.

    I've been with Bell for well over a decade now both as a consumer and corporate customer. Unless they've changed things recently, or I'm just special, there is little difference. From my experience, some differences between the two are that you had a sales rep that handled all of your needs and, at least pretended, to remember who you were when you called for support. And billing was different as well because the user was not often the one billed. In that sense, the user needed to be approved by management for account changes. In the beginning, I could not call Bell and have them change my plan even though I was listed as the user. It had to come from a list of approved employees who could make changes to the plans. In fact, because I was corporate at one time, I have access to features not offered to the general consumer (for example, I had a 6GB plan long before it was offered on a consumer plan despite no longer being on a corporate plan).

    I worked for a large company in purchasing (with purchasing power) and inventory control for a number of years and now work for the federal government. Next...

    I am not a security specialist. I do have common sense though and your numbers just don't match up. Here's a brief run-down of my plan from Bell (which is a bit of a mix of corporate and consumer features). I have unlimited nation-wide, anytime calling, unlimited SMS and MMS, unlimited incoming international SMS, 6GB, BIS enabled (if I need to switch back to my 9900 from my Q10), and VM and all that standard jazz. I got the phone for a whopping $0 and pay less than $90/month. I'd say that's a decent plan. Obviously if I'm BIS enabled I'm not on BES and have none of those fees but I'm just using my plan as an example.

    If you can get me all of that with an iPhone, then I will agree that Apple should be considered. But then it comes down to security and support at that point.

    Posted via CB10
    scrapmetal58 likes this.
    12-19-13 01:17 PM
  23. Gunner24's Avatar
    Those "2 year money grab" plans are different corporate and consumer side. So a Q10 would actually cost about $499.99 on a two year for the government.

    The big three barely subsidize anything for corporations and it's even worse for the plans.

    How many people in this thread actually work for a government or a large corporation, AND in a position of buying power.

    How many of you are ACTUAL security IT specialist?

    Again I ask, if the device is being deployed on a MDM like BES or a competitor than what does it matter? Security is based on the locking mechanism. A iPhone that has the locked down BES side is just as secure as a BlackBerry with BES.

    Don't forget a BlackBerry without BES is just as vulnerable as a Android/iOS device without BES.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1. Because the Canadian government benefits from BlackBerry's success through increased tax revenue, employment and investment in R&D and the community, they have a vested interest in seeing BlackBerry succeed. If BlackBerry goes belly up the government will lose these benefits as well be on the hook for greater EI and unemployment-related payouts.
    2. The Government NEEDS a mobile communication solution. BlackBerry10 meets the requirements and at a lower cost. Therefore, purchasing BlackBerry phones IS NOT A FORM OF SUBSIDIZATION OR CORPORATE WELFARE. The latter is what they give to Pratt & Whitney, Bombardier and the auto industry. THIS IS NOT A HAND OUT. All governments should be deploying BlackBerries exclusively from a cost-benefit analysis- it is just an extra slap in the face that the Canadian government has allowed the iPhone specifically.
    3. Security is not the same. This is common knowledge and the fact that you are disputing this raises questions about your credibility. BlackBerry has additional layers of hardware encryption not found in other devices that works specifically with BES. This is why the President is limited to a BlackBerry.
    4. iPhones are more expensive than BlackBerry handsets. Period. Two OSs are more expensive and difficult to support and manage than one. Period.

    Given the above 4 points there needs to be a hell of a reason to start allowing iPhones into government. I'll give you a hint: there isn't one. MPs are just happy to have found another way to get taxpayers to pay for more shiny things that I guess their 150K salary couldn't afford.

    And I work for a fiscal government watchdog if we are throwing out employment credentials. First and foremost this is a waste of taxpayers money. We don't need to spend thousands of tax dollars from hard working Canadians to get phones that are less secure, less efficient and have the added benefit of drop kicking are largest tech company in the groin.
    scrapmetal58 and Karan Mohal like this.
    12-19-13 01:56 PM
  24. Gunner24's Avatar
    "We have no diversity, no iOS and no Android, and we do not want to go into this technology because it's costly," said Eric Marchand, head of telecom at PSA Peugeot Citroen told ZDNet. (With regard to their decision to purchase 10,000 new BlackBerry Z10s.)"

    A friggin French car manufacturer gets it but not the Canadian government? Wow...
    phylez and John Pawling like this.
    12-19-13 01:59 PM
  25. Karan Mohal's Avatar
    I’m not a security specialist... are you?

    However, with my limited knowledge, I can see a potential for a differences in security between BES managed BB10 devices and BES managed iPhones. If the phone itself has a security vulnerability, the presence of an MDM wouldn’t necessarily patch up the vulnerability..


    Those "2 year money grab" plans are different corporate and consumer side. So a Q10 would actually cost about $499.99 on a two year for the government.

    The big three barely subsidize anything for corporations and it's even worse for the plans.

    How many people in this thread actually work for a government or a large corporation, AND in a position of buying power.

    How many of you are ACTUAL security IT specialist?

    Again I ask, if the device is being deployed on a MDM like BES or a competitor than what does it matter? Security is based on the locking mechanism. A iPhone that has the locked down BES side is just as secure as a BlackBerry with BES.

    Don't forget a BlackBerry without BES is just as vulnerable as a Android/iOS device without BES.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    12-19-13 02:03 PM
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