06-18-14 11:45 AM
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  1. crazigee's Avatar
    We don't know what they are and aren't planning except for when they choose to share or on the rare occasion when someone leaks something they shouldn't.
    They've said they are focusing on keyboards. That's business as usual.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-07-14 10:13 AM
  2. Gnomesane's Avatar
    I didn't write about WP and I didn't want to convert anybody. I wrote about Windows 8, it is desktop OS. Very good OS, for BB user also.
    Sorry, misread. I have Windows 8.1 on the desktop. I have to say, I disliked the initial Windows 8, but since the 8.1 update it's growing on me as they've integrated tiles better. Still barely use the Tiles page though. I think it makes more sense on a tablet or phone.
    dolco likes this.
    06-07-14 10:14 AM
  3. Gnomesane's Avatar
    They've said they are focusing on keyboards. That's business as usual.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    But the first device released under Chen was the all touch Z3 which he's stated he plans on rolling out globally. And the rumour mill is ramping up on the "Manitoba" which speculation puts at a high end all touch. The big "business as usual" announcement imho is the return of the BlackBerry Belt on the Classic 'Q20'. And that device should do well in Enterprise with power users, I'd be surprised if it didn't.
    06-07-14 10:17 AM
  4. FSeverino's Avatar
    So, 4000 very old BlackBerry phones are gone.

    They aren't replacing 9000 BlackBerry 10 devices.

    Technically BlackBerry is losing 4000 here. It sucks, hard... but those phones are EoL anyway

    Posted via CB10
    06-07-14 10:21 AM
  5. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    They've said they are focusing on keyboards. That's business as usual.
    Actually, they've said they are doing both, with an emphasis on keyboards.

    Seriously dude - unless you have all the executives personally calling you once a week to discuss their roadmap and future plans, I don't think you have any clue whatsoever about what their strategies are except on what you see on a day to day basis.

    Same with me. No clue until they roll it out.
    Vorkosigan likes this.
    06-07-14 11:27 AM
  6. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Where did you get the number of 80 million from?
    Tom Warren, Ed Bott and also this
    Rising Metro - The Rise of Windows Phone Platform - Vserv.mobi
    RubberChicken76 likes this.
    06-07-14 11:31 AM
  7. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Interesting. I'm struggling with how they got to the 80 million number, given that Nokia is the only real vendor shipping units of quantity. Depending on the stats, Nokia makes 80-95% of the Windows Phone market. Here's an example.

    If you look at the shipments they reported for the first two years, they shipped 44.3 million over two years (8 quarters). Not all of those would still be in use (and therefore not part of the 'installed base'). Last reported quarter, they didn't break Windows Phone numbers out, but if they suddenly shipping 8 million to - say 20 million a quarter, you'd bet Microsoft would have announced.

    Q1 3,000,000
    Q2 4,000,000
    Q3 2,900,000
    Q4 4,400,000
    Q1 5,600,000
    Q2 7,400,000
    Q3 8,800,000
    Q4 8,200,000
    Total 44,300,000

    Totally see where you got the data from. Just not getting how they reached 80 million installed base based upon the Windows Phone trends.
    06-07-14 11:45 AM
  8. crazigee's Avatar
    Actually, they've said they are doing both, with an emphasis on keyboards.

    Seriously dude - unless you have all the executives personally calling you once a week to discuss their roadmap and future plans, I don't think you have any clue whatsoever about what their strategies are except on what you see on a day to day basis.

    Same with me. No clue until they roll it out.
    I think the difference between "focus" and "emphasis" is purely semantics.

    Which ever word you want to use, they are doing more keyboards than touch. That to me is business as usual, since doing lots of keyboards has always been their thing.

    To me that's a little out of touch with what people want.

    And no, I don't get calls from the executives on a daily basis. I have coffee with John every other Tuesday.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-07-14 11:55 AM
  9. crazigee's Avatar
    But the first device released under Chen was the all touch Z3 which he's stated he plans on rolling out globally. And the rumour mill is ramping up on the "Manitoba" which speculation puts at a high end all touch. The big "business as usual" announcement imho is the return of the BlackBerry Belt on the Classic 'Q20'. And that device should do well in Enterprise with power users, I'd be surprised if it didn't.
    If the rumors of Manitoba are true. That's a big "if". We've heard rumors about flagship touch devices before and they haven't come to fruition.

    The Z3 so far doesn't seem like a great device for the developed markets. I just don't think it has the wow factor that BlackBerry needs right now. It's not a phone that is going to show the world that BlackBerry is still in the game.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-07-14 11:58 AM
  10. Gnomesane's Avatar
    Interesting. I'm struggling with how they got to the 80 million number, given that Nokia is the only real vendor shipping units of quantity. Depending on the stats, Nokia makes 80-95% of the Windows Phone market. Here's an example.

    If you look at the shipments they reported for the first two years, they shipped 44.3 million over two years (8 quarters). Not all of those would still be in use (and therefore not part of the 'installed base'). Last reported quarter, they didn't break Windows Phone numbers out, but if they suddenly shipping 8 million to - say 20 million a quarter, you'd bet Microsoft would have announced.

    Q1 3,000,000
    Q2 4,000,000
    Q3 2,900,000
    Q4 4,400,000
    Q1 5,600,000
    Q2 7,400,000
    Q3 8,800,000
    Q4 8,200,000
    Total 44,300,000

    Totally see where you got the data from. Just not getting how they reached 80 million installed base based upon the Windows Phone trends.
    It's been met with some scepticism, even on some WP friendly blogs

    eg. Are there 80 million Windows Phones out there? | WMPoweruser
    Elite1 likes this.
    06-07-14 11:59 AM
  11. Gnomesane's Avatar
    If the rumors of Manitoba are true. That's a big "if". We've heard rumors about flagship touch devices before and they haven't come to fruition.

    The Z3 so far doesn't seem like a great device for the developed markets. I just don't think it has the wow factor that BlackBerry needs right now. It's not a phone that is going to show the world that BlackBerry is still in the game.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Yes, it's still firmly in the rumour mill. But IIRC everyone was pretty surprised at the Z3 announcement. There wasn't a lot of warning before it appeared. The biggest argument in favour of another all touch device is competing with Microsoft in enterprise who are seeding cheap Windows Phones (like the example of this article). So while Chen is focussing at the moment on PKBs (particularly the Classic), he's never said that he was abandoning all touch. Using his own terminology, I'd guess the emphasis on keyboards is a medium term goal, whereas all touch isn't.

    The Classic is generally seen an a phone that BlackBerry hopes to use as an upgrade path for die hard legacy BBOS users. But who knows, it may become a staple in their inventory if there's enough demand. Keyboards are one differentiating factor for BlackBerry, and I personally don't see it as 'antiquated'. I KNOW, there are lots of mobile fashionistas that say otherwise, but I could care less. Really, that crowd jumps bandwagons on a regular basis and are constantly bored. They're the hardest crowd to market a product, and should be last on the list for a cash strapped BlackBerry. In other words, I don't think it's going to make or break them.

    As for how well the Z3 is doing, we'll get our best glimpse on June 19, all the (mostly) mainstream negative speculations notwithstanding. The key is whether or not the Z3 is meeting BlackBerry's own internal projections, and I trust Chen will be pretty blunt about it if it isn't working out.
    06-07-14 12:11 PM
  12. Thesmartmale's Avatar
    It's not one:

    - Gi Group: Gi Group Dumps Blackberry for Nokia Lumia Windows Phones (Press Release) | WP7 Connect
    - O2 Germany: O2 Germany dumps BlackBerry for Windows Phone - Neowin
    - Britvic: Britvic dumps BlackBerry for Windows Phone - 01 Aug 2013 - Computing News

    I think the list may be expanded if needed, these companies can be found on first two pages of googling...
    There are also a list of customers who joined BlackBerry, what you mentioned doesn't mean anything!

    Posted via CB10
    06-07-14 12:36 PM
  13. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    It's been met with some scepticism, even on some WP friendly blogs

    eg. Are there 80 million Windows Phones out there? | WMPoweruser
    The estimate of 50 million to 60 million would be what I would have thought it to be.
    06-07-14 12:41 PM
  14. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Which ever word you want to use, they are doing more keyboards than touch. That to me is business as usual, since doing lots of keyboards has always been their thing.
    Disagree. If that were the case, the Z10, Z3, Z30 and rumoured touch devices wouldn't exist. BBM would be BlackBerry only. BES would be BlackBerry only. They'd still be doing heavier pushes into consumers (since that is where the growth has been for the last five years) and they'd be reporting net new activations on device sales instead of focusing on four lines of businesses.
    06-07-14 12:42 PM
  15. Gnomesane's Avatar
    The estimate of 50 million to 60 million would be what I would have thought it to be.
    Yeah, there's no argument they're growing market share but you seem to be spot on with the other analyses I've come across.

    Love how the headlines spin it as a Windows vs BlackBerry only fight. As if iPhone or Android users haven't switched to a Windows phone. Nope. It's all coming out of BlackBerry's hide is the obvious implication. That's a clear an example of the ongoing bias and spin. It's also a negative spin on Windows Phone when you think about it...
    dolco likes this.
    06-07-14 12:48 PM
  16. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    It's been met with some scepticism, even on some WP friendly blogs

    eg. Are there 80 million Windows Phones out there? | WMPoweruser
    Wmpoweruser isn't particularly well informed. Vserve are people who make an advertising SDK and would have a better idea of how many WP devices there are. Maybe Samsung, Lg, Huawei and Alcatel have been selling some ninja phones in the background lol.
    60-80 at the very least in any case.
    p.s.
    By my Calcs, there's been about 66 Million sold. So installed base should be about 50-60 something million AFAIK.
    06-07-14 01:17 PM
  17. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Yeah, there's no argument they're growing market share but you seem to be spot on with the other analyses I've come across.

    Love how the headlines spin it as a Windows vs BlackBerry only fight. As if iPhone or Android users haven't switched to a Windows phone. Nope. It's all coming out of BlackBerry's hide is the obvious implication. That's a clear an example of the ongoing bias and spin. It's also a negative spin on Windows Phone when you think about it...
    To be fair, Blackberry is supposed to be enterprise. So being rejected by entreprise is seen as a serious thing
    Pentagon Dumps BlackBerry for iPhone, iPads: Report
    and from consumers this:
    Need ammo to convince the boss to replace my BlackBerry with a real smartphone? - Spiceworks
    So I guess old BB phones must have really pissed people off something fierce
    06-07-14 01:21 PM
  18. Gnomesane's Avatar
    Wmpoweruser isn't particularly well informed. Vserve are people who make an advertising SDK and would have a better idea of how many WP devices there are. Maybe Samsung, Lg, Huawei and Alcatel have been selling some ninja phones in the background lol.
    60-80 at the very least in any case.
    p.s.
    By my Calcs, there's been about 66 Million sold. So installed base should be about 50-60 something million AFAIK.
    Ok, I'll take your word for it, I'm not very up to speed on things WP admittedly. There were a few other references I came across (including WPCentral in the forums), but I picked that one, mainly at random. But you seem to agree with RubberChicken76's guesstimate so perhaps Vserv has its own definition of installed userbase. Or as you say, other OEMs have been selling Ninja Phones, lol.
    06-07-14 01:22 PM
  19. Gnomesane's Avatar
    To be fair, Blackberry is supposed to be enterprise. So being rejected by entreprise is seen as a serious thing
    Pentagon Dumps BlackBerry for iPhone, iPads: Report
    and from consumers this:
    Need ammo to convince the boss to replace my BlackBerry with a real smartphone? - Spiceworks
    So I guess old BB phones must have really pissed people off something fierce
    I think there were issues in the past with legacy devices, and some people resented having to use them, particularly in the U.S. Up here in Canada seeing legacy BlackBerry Bolds is a daily occurrence.

    I'd be careful about reading media spin as concluding that BlackBerry has been rejected by Enterprise. That's a misleading blanket statement. Enterprise has been slow to adopt the new platform for a myriad of reasons, but I don't think you've seen a blanket rejection of BlackBerry in tota, far from it. If that were the case, we'd be talking about the company in the past tense already.

    The moves to embrace BYOD I'm sure will have a positive effect going forward. Eric Lai (blogs for BlackBerry) had a great write up targeting two of BlackBerry's competitors in enterprise for MDM. Some sobering numbers regarding MobileIron and Good:

    BlackBerry: Good Isn’t all that Great, while Iron shows its Rust | Inside BlackBerry

    But you're right, perceptions are a powerful thing, something BlackBerry has needed to address meaningfully for a long time. Thankfully they've gone on the offensive and are hitting back hard under the new leadership. Long overdue.
    06-07-14 01:28 PM
  20. crazigee's Avatar
    Disagree. If that were the case, the Z10, Z3, Z30 and rumoured touch devices wouldn't exist. BBM would be BlackBerry only. BES would be BlackBerry only. They'd still be doing heavier pushes into consumers (since that is where the growth has been for the last five years) and they'd be reporting net new activations on device sales instead of focusing on four lines of businesses.
    I was talking about going forward. Under Thor they were focused on moving to touch. That was the past. Chen is "emphasizing" keyboards and releasing more of those than touch.

    That's a mistake in my opinion.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-07-14 07:09 PM
  21. crazigee's Avatar
    There are also a list of customers who joined BlackBerry, what you mentioned doesn't mean anything!

    Posted via CB10
    That list is a lot smaller than the one of people that has left.

    It's not a case of viewing the glass as half empty or half full. Based on what you're saying you want us to view the glass as 1/16 full instead of 15/16 empty.

    Obviously there's still some beer left in the glass, but expecting people to spend as much time talking about that 1/16 that's left isn't realistic.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-07-14 07:13 PM
  22. lnichols's Avatar
    I was talking about going forward. Under Thor they were focused on moving to touch. That was the past. Chen is "emphasizing" keyboards and releasing more of those than touch.

    That's a mistake in my opinion.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    I agree with this. They didn't really push the Z10 hard, and didn't push the Z30 at all. Nor did they emphasize that the new devices were nothing like the BBOS devices many consumers came to despise. They put no effort into the BB10 launch or consumer awareness, and now have declared they didn't move devices because of keyboards and trackpads!?

    Posted with a BlackBerry Z10
    06-07-14 08:32 PM
  23. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    To be fair, Blackberry is supposed to be enterprise. So being rejected by entreprise is seen as a serious thing
    Pentagon Dumps BlackBerry for iPhone, iPads: Report
    and from consumers this:
    Need ammo to convince the boss to replace my BlackBerry with a real smartphone? - Spiceworks
    So I guess old BB phones must have really pissed people off something fierce
    Pentagon did not dump anything and have grossly mismanaged their mobile device deployment. Having been very involved in those things and those that run the program, these headlines are BS
    Elite1 likes this.
    06-07-14 09:22 PM
  24. Thesmartmale's Avatar
    That list is a lot smaller than the one of people that has left.

    It's not a case of viewing the glass as half empty or half full. Based on what you're saying you want us to view the glass as 1/16 full instead of 15/16 empty.

    Obviously there's still some beer left in the glass, but expecting people to spend as much time talking about that 1/16 that's left isn't realistic.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    No that list is a lot bigger.

    Posted via CB10
    06-08-14 03:29 AM
  25. chalx's Avatar
    Few days ago, my friend's aunt came from US with shiny new Iphone 5S. We asked her what happened with her 9900 and she said that she was forced by IT to take 5S because she was the last exec using Blackberry. She is an exec in one of major US pharmaceutical companies. Seems like enterprise is still getting out from Blackberry.
    06-08-14 05:01 AM
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