06-18-14 11:45 AM
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  1. Gnomesane's Avatar
    Oh, look who's here.

    Posted via CB10
    06-06-14 07:51 AM
  2. anon1727506's Avatar
    Not if, but When? Well you're an optimist. I assume you're referring to the notion that BlackBerry will stop making mobile handsets. They aren't very consumer focused these days, but that could turn around quickly (eg Apple in the late 90's).

    I guess BlackBerry hasn't gotten the memo since we're looking at a likely global rollout of the Z3, the Classic, the Windermere and now a rumoured all touch device - "Manitoba". I don't know about you, but my math puts BlackBerry at eight separate mobile devices on BlackBerry 10 in less than 2 years (by the time they're likely to be released). Doesn't sound like a company that's giving up on the mobile market but maybe you know something I don't.

    Posted via CB10
    You can manufacture all the products you want, but if you can't sell them at a profit - are you in a business or a charity?

    BlackBerry's days of over building and marking down devices is over. I think you will find future hardware is going to be expensive for what you get, if the clearly consumer orientated Z3 was overpriced. I have little hope that the Classic and Windermere are not going to make the iPhone 6 look like a bargain.

    I don't think either the Classic or the Windermere are consumer orientated devices. Or the fact that BlackBerry will have built eight separate devices, is necessary a good thing.

    Don't see BlackBerry killing off all hardware - but I do see them only selling very expensive hardware that is geared towards a few niche industries. Most likely with sales of only a few million devices a year.

    Yes, he said that. What's your point?

    Obviously BlackBerry's competitors are going to make a play in enterprise as well. You win some, you lose some... It's all part of the game.

    8,000 mobile users is peanuts. Seriously, think about it. How is Samsung's "Knox" doing these days for example?

    How does the loss of 8,000 mobile users compare to the gain 1,000,000 unique BES licenses?
    When many of those 1,000,000 unique BES10 licenses are just converted BES5 licenses.... it doesn't compare all that well.

    And if 8,000 users is peanuts, what are the press releases that BlackBerry has been putting out about companies (many of whom are non-profits) that have converted to BB10 with BES10. Think one was estimated to most likely have only 300 employees that would qualify for a smartphone. Pretty sure that BlackBerry is now in a position where peanuts are like gold.
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-06-14 08:01 AM
  3. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    You can manufacture all the products you want, but if you can't sell them at a profit - are you in a business or a charity?

    BlackBerry's days of over building and marking down devices is over. I think you will find future hardware is going to be expensive for what you get, if the clearly consumer orientated Z3 was overpriced. I have little hope that the Classic and Windermere are not going to make the iPhone 6 look like a bargain.

    I don't think either the Classic or the Windermere are consumer orientated devices. Or the fact that BlackBerry will have built eight separate devices, is necessary a good thing.

    Don't see BlackBerry killing off all hardware - but I do see them only selling very expensive hardware that is geared towards a few niche industries. Most likely with sales of only a few million devices a year.



    When many of those 1,000,000 unique BES10 licenses are just converted BES5 licenses.... it doesn't compare all that well.

    And if 8,000 users is peanuts, what are the press releases that BlackBerry has been putting out about companies (many of whom are non-profits) that have converted to BB10 with BES10. Think one was estimated to most likely have only 300 employees that would qualify for a smartphone. Pretty sure that BlackBerry is now in a position where peanuts are like gold.
    It could, we just dont know how many are part of that. Releasing numbers of converted competitor licenses would be a better statistic (though not as impressive a number I am sure). The big thing with BB is we just really dont know. Not to mention that the police force could be using WP8 and then using BES12 (when it comes out) to secure it. BB keeps some business but doesnt sell the hardware. We simply dont have enough information at this point.
    06-06-14 08:27 AM
  4. Gnomesane's Avatar
    You can manufacture all the products you want, but if you can't sell them at a profit - are you in a business or a charity?

    BlackBerry's days of over building and marking down devices is over. I think you will find future hardware is going to be expensive for what you get, if the clearly consumer orientated Z3 was overpriced. I have little hope that the Classic and Windermere are not going to make the iPhone 6 look like a bargain.

    I don't think either the Classic or the Windermere are consumer orientated devices. Or the fact that BlackBerry will have built eight separate devices, is necessary a good thing.

    Don't see BlackBerry killing off all hardware - but I do see them only selling very expensive hardware that is geared towards a few niche industries. Most likely with sales of only a few million devices a year.
    I'll reserve judgement on the Windermere for now, but so far I'm underwhelmed by the look of it. And I agree that BlackBerry doesn't need 8 separate devices and they may be spreading themselves a little thin.

    I disagree on the Classic. I think it will be a bit pricey but I know several people who are dying to get it. Some who don't like the Q5/10 series and have temporarily left BlackBerry. And they aren't BlackBerry enthusiasts like me. Ad hoc perhaps, but true.

    I see the Z3 as being dual purpose. A low end consumer and enterprise device. If it does okay in overseas markets it'll make it's way over, pretty sure.
    [QUOTE=scalemaster34;10440911
    When many of those 1,000,000 unique BES10 licenses are just converted BES5 licenses.... it doesn't compare all that well.

    And if 8,000 users is peanuts, what are the press releases that BlackBerry has been putting out about companies (many of whom are non-profits) that have converted to BB10 with BES10. Think one was estimated to most likely have only 300 employees that would qualify for a smartphone. Pretty sure that BlackBerry is now in a position where peanuts are like gold.[/QUOTE]

    I was making fun of the "have it both ways crowd" mainly. They pshaw at positive numbers in the thousands and then go to town on the negative numbers. In the thousands. They crap on 100,000,000+ BBM installs and inevitably point out that WhatsApp has four times that number. In other words they're one note all the time. I've been critical of BlackBerry in the past where I felt it was warranted and will continue to do so. And I also won't be shy about praising them if I feel they've earned it.

    My understanding on the BES 10 licenses was that they were unique installs and not BES 5 upgrades. Do you have a link that says otherwise. I'd honestly appreciate seeing it.


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Gnomesane; 06-06-14 at 08:47 AM.
    06-06-14 08:33 AM
  5. lerimer's Avatar
    I find that to be a huge generalization, and frankly pretty offensive.

    What data do you have to make such a comment?
    I'm a police officer myself and I found it to be hilarious! If you find things like that offensive, then you shouldn't be on the Internet.

    Posted via CB10 On Z10
    Lawrie Sherratt likes this.
    06-06-14 08:45 AM
  6. Ethereo's Avatar
    BlackBerry's days of over building and marking down devices is over. I think you will find future hardware is going to be expensive for what you get, if the clearly consumer orientated Z3 was overpriced.
    What is your definition of overpriced?, for that conclusion about the Z3 you need to know the sales of the product, if you are comparing it to the Chinese phones, then every phone in the market is overpriced, if you compare vs an Iphone, everything in the market is underpriced, overpriced is a perception from the market, when it thinks that the product is not worthy its price, it is the case for the Z3? give me the numbers and we can make a conclusion.
    06-06-14 08:52 AM
  7. birdman_38's Avatar
    I agree that BlackBerry doesn't need 8 separate devices and they may be spreading themselves a little thin.
    BlackBerry doesn't but Foxconn might, depending on their agreement.
    06-06-14 09:18 AM
  8. Gnomesane's Avatar
    BlackBerry doesn't but Foxconn might, depending on their agreement.
    I think if things go well with Foxconn, they'll slowly take over the mobile manufacturing business. I'm fine with that, and they are good at it and will likely be better at meeting deadlines than BlackBerry has traditionally been in the past. With Chen, hopefully that will stay in the past.

    I'd prefer the manufacturing take place in North America for the jobs, but that's not feasible anymore. Whatever, as long as they keep working on the OS and improving it, I'll be a happy campy.



    Posted via CB10
    06-06-14 09:29 AM
  9. anon1727506's Avatar
    I'll reserve judgement on the Windermere for now, but so far I'm underwhelmed by the look of it. And I agree that BlackBerry doesn't need 8 separate devices and they may be spreading themselves a little thin.

    I disagree on the Classic. I think it will be a bit pricey but I know several people who are dying to get it. Some who don't like the Q5/10 series and have temporarily left BlackBerry. And they aren't BlackBerry enthusiasts like me. Ad hoc perhaps, but true.

    I see the Z3 as being dual purpose. A low end consumer and enterprise device. If it does okay in overseas markets it'll make it's way over, pretty sure.


    I was making fun of the "have it both ways crowd" mainly. They pshaw at positive numbers in the thousands and then go to town on the negative numbers. In the thousands. They crap on 100,000,000+ BBM installs and inevitably point out that WhatsApp has four times that number. In other words they're one note all the time. I've been critical of BlackBerry in the past where I felt it was warranted and will continue to do so. And I also won't be shy about praising them if I feel they've earned it.

    My understanding on the BES 10 licenses was that they were unique installs and not BES 5 upgrades. Do you have a link that says otherwise. I'd honestly appreciate seeing it.


    Posted via CB10
    The only place I saw the 1,000,000 number was a flyer... tried a quick search on BlackBerry Site, no luck.

    But BlackBerry Empire.com is where I first saw the story - "Over 1 million BES10 Licenses issued through EZ Pass in exchange for BES5 and competitor licenses." Over 1 Million BES10 Licenses have been issued through EZ Pass - BlackBerry Empire
    The whole program is to get people off of BES5 and to help steer them to BES10 (BES12) if they are using other Platforms. Didn't see anything indicating how the number were split up on BES5 vs other MDM Platforms.

    I don't think EZ Pass works if you just have a few non manged devices and you want to add them. It's only if you have a license from another MDM supplier that you can trade in. And it's a one time offer per customer. So there is no moving a few test devices over and later bringing the rest if you like it. With EZ Pass being such a new program (started in March), for now I would imagine that most of those 1 Million were BES5 transitions.

    Of course on the Flyer it talks about 30,000+ BES10 Server Installations.... and we know how they got that number.
    06-06-14 09:53 AM
  10. Gnomesane's Avatar
    The only place I saw the 1,000,000 number was a flyer... tried a quick search on BlackBerry Site, no luck.

    But BlackBerry Empire.com is where I first saw the story - "Over 1 million BES10 Licenses issued through EZ Pass in exchange for BES5 and competitor licenses." Over 1 Million BES10 Licenses have been issued through EZ Pass - BlackBerry Empire
    The whole program is to get people off of BES5 and to help steer them to BES10 (BES12) if they are using other Platforms. Didn't see anything indicating how the number were split up on BES5 vs other MDM Platforms.

    I don't think EZ Pass works if you just have a few non manged devices and you want to add them. It's only if you have a license from another MDM supplier that you can trade in. And it's a one time offer per customer. So there is no moving a few test devices over and later bringing the rest if you like it. With EZ Pass being such a new program (started in March), for now I would imagine that most of those 1 Million were BES5 transitions.

    Of course on the Flyer it talks about 30,000+ BES10 Server Installations.... and we know how they got that number.
    Thanks, yeah I guess I picked it up second hand somewhere. Be curious to know definitively. Either way, it counts as a success in my book.

    On a side note, I signed up for the BES 10 Cloud preview just for ****zngiggles... I added my Z10, iPhone 4S and Xperia and it works a charm. it was free to download and use for a year. The cloud version is a fantastic idea imho for freelancers in confidential positions and small businesses that lack the resources for their own server.

    Posted via CB10
    06-06-14 10:26 AM
  11. crazigee's Avatar
    I'm a police officer myself and I found it to be hilarious! If you find things like that offensive, then you shouldn't be on the Internet.

    Posted via CB10 On Z10
    Doesn't change the fact that it's a generalization without any supporting data.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Last edited by crazigee; 06-06-14 at 11:58 AM.
    06-06-14 10:38 AM
  12. birdman_38's Avatar
    I'm a police officer myself and I found it to be hilarious!
    Coming from Canada in which 3 federal officers were recently murdered by a lone gunman, thank you and your comrades for doing all that you do to protect the safety of others every day.
    06-06-14 11:33 AM
  13. crazigee's Avatar
    Coming from Canada in which 3 federal officers were recently murdered by a lone gunman, thank you and your comrades for doing all that you do to protect the safety of others every day.
    Absolutely. Too many in Canada, particularly here in Ontario, are very quick to criticize the police without any recognition for the very hard job that they do.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Last edited by crazigee; 06-06-14 at 04:52 PM.
    06-06-14 12:05 PM
  14. koool1's Avatar
    BlackBerry continues to spiral from where I sit. Even my neighbor who always went on and on about his qwerty switched to Android last week.



    Posted via CB10
    06-06-14 01:15 PM
  15. crazigee's Avatar
    BlackBerry continues to spiral from where I sit. Even my neighbor who always went on and on about his qwerty switched to Android last week.
    I'm sitting pretty close to you. I think the spiral is slowing, but it's still downhill. It concerns me that many people, including some at BlackBerry, don't seem to recognize that and it's business as usual. How do you fix something if you don't even recognize that it's broken?

    Posted via CB10
    06-06-14 02:04 PM
  16. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    WP, how simple and childish can you get? Look at me, I'm shiny and have flashing blocks.

    The lack of features is glaring.
    lack of exactly what features? I'm pretty sure wp tiles do not flash and reflect the wallpaper or theme you're using
    06-06-14 03:11 PM
  17. xombi's Avatar
    That's ok people in Cambridgeshire will be able to commit crimes with less fear of getting caught now since the win phone users will be busy upgrading there issues ridden devices.

    Posted via CB10
    06-06-14 03:32 PM
  18. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    That's ok people in Cambridgeshire will be able to commit crimes with less fear of getting caught now since the win phone users will be busy upgrading there issues ridden devices.

    Posted via CB10
    At least it won't get spinning clocks. See? I can do stereotypes too.
    You might as well be blaming iPhones for skeumorphism and android for lag at this rate
    06-06-14 03:43 PM
  19. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    At least it won't get spinning clocks. See? I can do stereotypes too.
    You might as well be blaming iPhones for skeumorphism and android for lag at this rate
    Funny - as you mention this, my damn Kindle Fire HDX is slowing to a bloody crawl yet again. Basic system controls stop responding for 10-15 seconds ... even after reboot and factory reset.

    Damn device ...
    06-06-14 04:04 PM
  20. Oscar_E's Avatar
    Why do you think that? Microsoft has a long history in enterprise deployment and management

    Posted via CB10
    I don't think, I know for a fact, my father works for the government in Dominican Republic, his department have switch from BlackBerry to WP cause of the cheaper price they have here, and man they are having issues and headaches with it. No replacement parts any were, the OS is a pain in the a**, employees are just not happy with it, not to mention that replacement parts are extremely expensive, at least here in the DR.

    Posted via CB10
    06-06-14 04:06 PM
  21. Oscar_E's Avatar
    When BlackBerry issues a press release, it's usually about how BES 10 serves a company of 8000 or a company of under 200 employees with a client base of 8000. It's slight of hand.

    BlackBerry being unable to convince a law enforcement organization to upgrade their hardware to 8000 BlackBerry 10 handsets is very concerning. Especially when that client believes Windows Phone is a better alternative.
    As I said in another post, sometimes is not just which one is better, but which one is cheaper.

    Posted via CB10
    06-06-14 04:10 PM
  22. Gnomesane's Avatar
    I don't think, I know for a fact, my father works for the government in Dominican Republic, his department have switch from BlackBerry to WP cause of the cheaper price they have here, and man they are having issues and headaches with it. No replacement parts any were, the OS is a pain in the a**, employees are just not happy with it, not to mention that replacement parts are extremely expensive, at least here in the DR.

    Posted via CB10
    That's interesting to know, thanks. So it comes down to cheaper up front and expensive on the backend? So BlackBerry's lower TCO (total cost of ownership) isn't an exaggeration when it comes to Microsoft.
    06-06-14 04:53 PM
  23. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    I'm sitting pretty close to you. I think the spiral is slowing, but it's still downhill. It concerns me that many people, including some at BlackBerry, don't seem to recognize that and it's business as usual. How do you fix something if you don't even recognize that it's broken?

    Posted via CB10
    There's a difference between recognizing things aren't good - and constantly harping on it.

    We are constantly reminded here on crackberry of all of BlackBerry past mistakes and current issues. As if we somehow don't get it. And heaven forbid anyone try to defend or look on a bright side. There aren't any. Might as well close the doors.

    I only hope that BlackBerry itself isn't at all like these forums. The doom and gloom would be enough to drag anyone down. I hope they have learned and moved on. And I think they have. I would now recommend they stop reading crackberry. There's nothing to be gained by going over old ground. At some point you have to move on.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Vorkosigan; 06-07-14 at 12:13 AM.
    06-06-14 04:55 PM
  24. crazigee's Avatar
    That's ok people in Cambridgeshire will be able to commit crimes with less fear of getting caught now since the win phone users will be busy upgrading there issues ridden devices.

    Posted via CB10
    What is your logic that a different phone will mean more crime, or more unsolved crime? I'm sure you have some peer-reviewed research to back up such a statement.
    Sith_Apprentice and JeepBB like this.
    06-06-14 04:55 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    There's a difference between recognising thongs aren't good - and constantly harping on it.

    Posted via CB10
    Thongs are awesome and anyone who disagrees is absolutely crazy! BlackBerry should be having models with thongs to help sell the phones.

    Posted with a BlackBerry Z10
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-06-14 05:39 PM
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