09-20-13 04:50 PM
145 123 ...
tools
  1. lawguyman's Avatar
    12-02-11 07:16 AM
  2. lawguyman's Avatar
    The good news is that there is lots of demand for $200 Playbooks. RIM sold at least 150,000 Playbooks in the third quarter. But, it still seems to have plenty of inventory and the discounts will continue.

    I think the hope is that this .5 billion is "seeding the market." If so, it is an investment in the platform. If not, it is just wasted money.
    12-02-11 07:24 AM
  3. BBA Brian's Avatar
    The good news is that there is lots of demand for $200 Playbooks. RIM sold at least 150,000 Playbooks in the third quarter. But, it still seems to have plenty of inventory and the discounts will continue.

    I think the hope is that this .5 billion is "seeding the market." If so, it is an investment in the platform. If not, it is just wasted money.

    Of course it is. Anyone who is surprised by these results is foolish. Combine

    1. No RIM advetising
    2. Aggressive Apple, Samsung and HTC advertising
    3. Rumors of BBX phones
    4. So much bad RIM press

    What do you get in 2012? Horrible sales. Its a no brainer.... anyone buying an OS 7 BB in 2012 is foolish because they need only wait several months more and get something far superior.

    I am one of the biggest RIM fanboys out there, but, I can't even recommend buying an OS 7 phone in 2012.

    As for the Playbook.... its a HUGE investment. Despite the lack of email, PIM, etc, its a SOLID product. In the vast majority when people try the Playbook, they love it. The challenge up to date has been getting in peoples hands. They need to continue this $199.99 sale all the way to Christmas and Boxing day.

    The more Playbooks that are in the market, the easier the transition to BBX will be.

    As I have said for a while now... there is no point in reading into OS 7 sales anymore. They will continue to drop.. it all depends on how fast they will drop.

    Go back and judge RIM when they have a BBX phone on the market. They aren't going out of business for years so whats the point of going into a panic now?
    12-02-11 07:40 AM
  4. OMGitworks's Avatar
    This plus the Cramer recommendation on CNBC surely means the stock is going to get hammered today.
    12-02-11 07:46 AM
  5. TheMimic's Avatar
    Gonna be a blood bath today.

    I'm predicting 8-11% drop by end of day and another 20% drop pre-trading right after earnings call.

    Was hoping the worse was over but looks like it's gonna find a new bottom.
    bbfan1040 likes this.
    12-02-11 07:48 AM
  6. slalom's Avatar
    Key events in RIM's very bad year - The Globe and Mail

    I hope RIM gets all the bad news out now that it has announced another earnings miss. The real crime is that they didn't come clean last time they missed their targets. The investment community will forgive a bad quarter - but if you are continually revising targets down and then MISSING those downward revisions you will not be trusted.

    I think RIM may be passed the point of no return with analysts until they hit forecasts for 5-6 quarters in a row.
    bbfan1040 likes this.
    12-02-11 07:49 AM
  7. lawguyman's Avatar
    You are right that this is not a surprise although the size of the charge is bigger than I would have thought.

    The question that I am asking myself is how is anyone going to make any money if tablets are going to sell for $200? Is this a business that RIM needs to be in? Amazon plans to make money on content. What content does RIM have to sell?
    12-02-11 07:49 AM
  8. BBA Brian's Avatar
    You are right that this is not a surprise although the size of the charge is bigger than I would have thought.

    The question that I am asking myself is how is anyone going to make any money if tablets are going to sell for $200? Is this a business that RIM needs to be in? Amazon plans to make money on content. What content does RIM have to sell?
    A better image. They are trying to sell a better image. Even as-is.. the Playbook enhances the Blackberry image... throw in OS2... even better..

    Its about a rebranding and image reconstruction.

    Getting 1 million Playbooks in the system is worth countless millions down the road....
    12-02-11 07:55 AM
  9. gjohnsto's Avatar
    funny how this is the lead story for the globe and mail, even though canada lost 20,000 jobs despite predictions of an upward trend... and the article says the playbook runs bbx... grrrrrr.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle2257745/
    12-02-11 08:04 AM
  10. bbfan1040's Avatar
    If QNX can be tamed, RIMM will again have enterprise market. No other company has risked development of new, better enterprise product.
    I wish RIMM success! They have bet their company on QNX! I doubt that was intended!
    My Playbook (2 now) has been a fun investment. I am glad I paid full price because I got my moneys worth.
    gjohnsto likes this.
    12-02-11 08:16 AM
  11. InWithTheNew's Avatar
    Let me start by saying that your title reads .5 billion, and you could have been less dramatic. From my understanding the charge is 360 million.

    I personally think that news of the pre-release of earnings was leaked yesterday, hence the spike in the share price around 10:15am. I owned the stock yesterday and sold because the move didn't make sense, especially when there was a podcast starting shortly that showed that the PlayBook was hacked, jailbroken, rooted, or whatever term you want to call it. To see today that the stock is big is not surprising.

    If you read the note especially in regards to the PlayBook portion, this note was not written today, and was most likely written before 11am yesterday. In the note it says that the PlayBook is secure, but it was already proven yesterday that the PlayBook is not as secure as RIM thinks or wants people to believe. If RIM wrote that not today in my opinion, they would have excluded that statement.

    I will wait for it to get lower before I get back in. I booked a small profit so I'm not mad. Just won't be trading this on emotion.
    BBA Brian and SirLancelot1986 like this.
    12-02-11 08:24 AM
  12. Caymancroc's Avatar
    I said that this was bad all along. Some said this was good because of market pentration. The only market penetration I see is that RIM's stock market price could penetrate it's previous low.

    Just wait until they announce how much North American business they lose over the next few months because of iPhone 4S and others.
    12-02-11 08:45 AM
  13. lawguyman's Avatar
    Let me start by saying that your title reads .5 billion, and you could have been less dramatic. From my understanding the charge is 360 million.
    It is a $485 Million charge which is $360 million in after tax dollars so it is nearly a .5 billion charge.
    Last edited by lawguyman; 12-02-11 at 08:48 AM.
    12-02-11 08:45 AM
  14. BBA Brian's Avatar
    It is a $485 Million charge which is $360 million in after tax dollars so it is nearly a .5 billion charge.
    lol... whats 140 million between friends?
    12-02-11 08:49 AM
  15. Blackberry_boffin's Avatar
    Thank you Captain Obvious.
    Any price drop is bad for the bottom line. Tell us something new.
    Incidentally which bottom line are you referring to?
    Comparing renting out warehouse space to keep inventory of a new platform vs getting it out to consumers to entice developers to come on board and work on the future OS, this is the done thing.
    12-02-11 08:51 AM
  16. InWithTheNew's Avatar
    It is a $485 Million charge which is $360 million in after tax dollars so it is nearly a .5 billion charge.
    Well I'll take victory with the confirmation that saying .5 Billion was dramatic, especially since this site is suppose to be pro RIM.
    12-02-11 08:55 AM
  17. undone's Avatar
    Just another excuse for the haters to hate. Remember Apple missed it numbers and the market pushed down there stock as well. Outside of the Payout you butttt book (and I own one and like it :P) there handset sales was decent. 14 million I believe. And consider, they have been releasing all the OS7 devices and ATT was a drag with no device outside of the Torch slider. RIMM insiders need to purchase the stock, they do that and you will see it spike back up. Insider purchases = confidence with the company.
    12-02-11 08:58 AM
  18. lawguyman's Avatar
    Any price drop is bad for the bottom line.
    Only if you lose money by selling each one.

    Many price cuts stimulate demand and actually HELP the bottom line.

    Is this also obvious?
    12-02-11 08:59 AM
  19. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    RIM's gross margin is still roughly 37% and they INCREASED cash on hand by (a small) $50 million. (this is the expected anyway). While the Playbook writeoff hurts them in the short term (and is not figured in the above), long term they still look good. Their gross margin was dropping like a stone this year, 37% is almost level to what it has been recently so the bleeding there has stopped.

    1 million playbooks may not seem like a lot, but the more people that have them, the more will realize that BlackBerry HAS a tablet and will try it out. Grass roots movement so to speak is the best advertising. RIM does however, need to spend money on advertising when OS 2.0 comes out. And they need to spend a good chunk of that 1.5billion in cash to do it.
    InWithTheNew likes this.
    12-02-11 09:00 AM
  20. addicted44's Avatar
    lol... whats 140 million between friends?
    It is 15 million short of 0.5Bn before tax benefits.

    If you want to count tax write-offs, thats up to you, but it tells you very little about the strengths/weaknesses of the PB business.

    I hope these losses have RIM backing away from the tablet market, and focussing on BBX phones. Tablets are NOT going to make them money. BBX phones mean that they have a competitive chance of regaining market share in North America, and increasing net margin.
    12-02-11 09:08 AM
  21. pbfan's Avatar
    of BBX for next earning and the company probably will be soled for more than $25 per share.
    Last edited by pbfan; 12-02-11 at 09:18 AM.
    12-02-11 09:15 AM
  22. lawguyman's Avatar
    It is 15 million short of 0.5Bn before tax benefits.

    If you want to count tax write-offs, thats up to you, but it tells you very little about the strengths/weaknesses of the PB business.

    I hope these losses have RIM backing away from the tablet market, and focussing on BBX phones. Tablets are NOT going to make them money. BBX phones mean that they have a competitive chance of regaining market share in North America, and increasing net margin.
    You can't make money selling $200 tablets unless the tablets are a path to selling content. This is Amazon's plan with the Kinde Fire. RIM has no content to sell so it can't make money selling tablets.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    12-02-11 09:15 AM
  23. anon1727506's Avatar
    You can't make money selling $200 tablets unless the tablets are a path to selling content. This is Amazon's plan with the Kinde Fire. RIM has no content to sell so it can't make money selling tablets.
    And if you don't have content and Apps, you might not be selling Tablets or Phones anymore... People don't really buy Android and iOS devices for the OS, they but them for what they can do with them. So unless RIM has some new trick up their sleeve, just coming out with a new OS is not going to make everyone love RIM again.
    Rickroller and zzzdamian like this.
    12-02-11 09:39 AM
  24. addicted44's Avatar
    You can't make money selling $200 tablets unless the tablets are a path to selling content. This is Amazon's plan with the Kinde Fire. RIM has no content to sell so it can't make money selling tablets.
    Yup. I agree. RIM needs to get out of the tablet business, at least until they have stopped the bleeding in the smartphone business.

    And we still don't know if Amazon's plan is sustainable in the long run.
    12-02-11 09:48 AM
  25. undone's Avatar
    Content is being added daily to the app world for the playbook. WTF, do people even own the device? When I first got it, there was jack-****, now, there is all sorts of stuff.
    12-02-11 09:55 AM
145 123 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD