01-06-15 07:53 PM
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  1. xandermac's Avatar
    BlackBerry's surviving, but not as a smartphone company

    Only 1.9 million phones shipped in 2014 though according to this. That cant be right?
    Last edited by xandermac; 12-19-14 at 08:11 AM.
    12-19-14 07:59 AM
  2. hpjrt's Avatar
    It is 1.9 million sold through to end customers in the third quarter - NOT for the year.


    Posted from my BlackBerry Passport
    app_Developer likes this.
    12-19-14 08:37 AM
  3. anon1727506's Avatar
    It's what they reported for the quarter and what all the indicators had predicted.

    They have cut and cut and are able to get by on less revenues, but they are still a shrinking company in a market that is seeing double digit growth.

    Simple put, BlackBerry's "niche" is the hardcore fans that are willing to buy every new device that comes out. Some of who will even buy a couple of different colors of each. That is not really a sustainable market....

    And while they have sold a lot of EZ Pass Licenses... either they didn't make much money on them, or they didn't off set the losses as BIS Licenses are slowly (or quickly) being phases out.... as the services revenues must have shrank at the same amount as hardware because both percentages are still about the same for their level of the revenues.

    They still have money and they are able to operate at their current level (not sure what the level is at this point), so they still have a lot of time to "try". But I think it's pretty clear that this is a two horse race... it just a matter of will BlackBerry and Microsoft stay in the race.
    12-19-14 08:38 AM
  4. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    Makes sense to me, Chen has stated from the beginning that he's focusing on corporate, and the launch of the Passport more or less confirmed that. So for better or worse, that's the strategy; better in the sense that it might make stockholders more money if the strategy succeeds, worse for consumers who might have wanted an entire Blackberry ecosystem just like Apple or Android.

    Focusing on corporate hinges on whether or not companies buy into the whole security argument that BB offers--and even if they do, BB will need to be a low cost provider, since I don't believe that companies are willing to pay a premium. So still a lot of work to do for BB.
    12-19-14 09:32 AM
  5. Zirak's Avatar
    It's what they reported for the quarter and what all the indicators had predicted.

    They have cut and cut and are able to get by on less revenues, but they are still a shrinking company in a market that is seeing double digit growth.

    Simple put, BlackBerry's "niche" is the hardcore fans that are willing to buy every new device that comes out. Some of who will even buy a couple of different colors of each. That is not really a sustainable market....
    Tell this story to Ferrari. Tell it to all the small/medium businesses around the world. Or maybe you are a fan of there only being 2 companies in the world? It makes it easier for the masses to further shut down their brains. Are you wearing a blue shirt or a red one?


    Sent while driving from my Crackberry.
    12-19-14 09:43 AM
  6. rcab's Avatar
    I was disappointed in that only 2 million phones had been sold. I thought the number would be a little higher. During this quarter what BB phones were being sold by U.S. carriers? AT&T has exclusive to the Passport but sold zero phones. Verizon I believe had the Z30 but you had to order it online. So until there is a break through in the carrier support in the U.S. then for U.S. purposes they will basically not be be a smart phone company. How can a company give exclusive rights to some one and then have no activity from them? The answer appears to be because no one else wanted it. So until they can find an active American partner we will always be seeing minor sales numbers. Just think what the results would have been if Amazon and the Shop. blackberry had not made the phones available for direct purchasing.
    12-19-14 09:55 AM
  7. redlightblinking's Avatar
    I was disappointed in that only 2 million phones had been sold. I thought the number would be a little higher. During this quarter what BB phones were being sold by U.S. carriers? AT&T has exclusive to the Passport but sold zero phones. Verizon I believe had the Z30 but you had to order it online. So until there is a break through in the carrier support in the U.S. then for U.S. purposes they will basically not be be a smart phone company. How can a company give exclusive rights to some one and then have no activity from them? The answer appears to be because no one else wanted it. So until they can find an active American partner we will always be seeing minor sales numbers. Just think what the results would have been if Amazon and the Shop. blackberry had not made the phones available for direct purchasing.
    The Passport is not with ATT yet. Only the Q10....a nearly 2 year old phone....shows up on their web site.

    Verizon still has a few more, but nothing newer than a Z30.

    No one else wanted it because most people don't even know it exists...as they buy what the see in stores, or see their friends or others use, or see in TV ads. BlackBerry isn't in any of those places.
    12-19-14 10:02 AM
  8. yessuz's Avatar
    there was message, not sure, how accurate, that passports were about 10% of revenue. so this is like 120k passports shipped. kinda small number.
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    12-19-14 10:07 AM
  9. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    It's what they reported for the quarter and what all the indicators had predicted.

    They have cut and cut and are able to get by on less revenues, but they are still a shrinking company in a market that is seeing double digit growth.

    Simple put, BlackBerry's "niche" is the hardcore fans that are willing to buy every new device that comes out. Some of who will even buy a couple of different colors of each. That is not really a sustainable market....

    And while they have sold a lot of EZ Pass Licenses... either they didn't make much money on them, or they didn't off set the losses as BIS Licenses are slowly (or quickly) being phases out.... as the services revenues must have shrank at the same amount as hardware because both percentages are still about the same for their level of the revenues.

    They still have money and they are able to operate at their current level (not sure what the level is at this point), so they still have a lot of time to "try". But I think it's pretty clear that this is a two horse race... it just a matter of will BlackBerry and Microsoft stay in the race.
    EZ Pass was a FREE upgrade from existing BES10 or competitive products. That was licenses. EZ Pass with BES 12 hosting is another matter and while the licenses may be free, there is monthly charges for the hosting.
    12-19-14 10:13 AM
  10. sati01's Avatar
    According to Gartner, 301 million smartphones were sold to end users in Q3.

    BlackBerry sold only 1.9 million units to end users in the last fiscal quarter, so their market share is less than 1%.

    BlackBerry is losing money with every phone they sell. I think the Classic is really the last resort. If this phone doesn't sell well then the hardware business is done.
    Not that they expect to make money with the hardware, but BlackBerry users in the enterprise increase the chances for BES12.
    m1a1mg and CHIP72 like this.
    12-19-14 10:16 AM
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    It's what they reported for the quarter and what all the indicators had predicted.

    They have cut and cut and are able to get by on less revenues, but they are still a shrinking company in a market that is seeing double digit growth.

    Simple put, BlackBerry's "niche" is the hardcore fans that are willing to buy every new device that comes out. Some of who will even buy a couple of different colors of each. That is not really a sustainable market....

    And while they have sold a lot of EZ Pass Licenses... either they didn't make much money on them, or they didn't off set the losses as BIS Licenses are slowly (or quickly) being phases out.... as the services revenues must have shrank at the same amount as hardware because both percentages are still about the same for their level of the revenues.

    They still have money and they are able to operate at their current level (not sure what the level is at this point), so they still have a lot of time to "try". But I think it's pretty clear that this is a two horse race... it just a matter of will BlackBerry and Microsoft stay in the race.
    Samsung and other Android manufactures would love to get the margins that Blackberry gets on the phones.

    And Samsung's growith isn't in double digits.

    Samsung Q3 net profit tumbles by 49% | ZDNet

    Much of the earnings hit came from the company's mobile business, which saw a quarter-on-quarter sales revenue tumble 15 percent to 23.52 trillion won ($22.3 billion). For the same period last year, the company reported mobile sales of 35.66 trillion won ($33.87 billion).
    12-19-14 10:19 AM
  12. trsbbs's Avatar
    Looks like JC is out of low hanging fruit.
    Software sales are lagging and service income is dropping.
    Sales of hardware is not good.

    The Classic is not going to do enough to offset the loss of service revenue.

    The sales of the Classic will tell if JC is doing what is needed or if he is just doing as "he" pleases.



    BlackBerry hates America!
    BB fan forever likes this.
    12-19-14 10:22 AM
  13. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    BlackBerry is losing money with every phone they sell. I think the Classic is really the last resort. If this phone doesn't sell well then the hardware business is done.
    Not that they expect to make money with the hardware, but BlackBerry users in the enterprise increase the chances for BES12.
    According to the Wall Street Journal, Blackberry has sold ~5.7 million smartphones thus far this year. It looks like Blackberry will fall short of its 10 million unit goal. I wonder how Chen will respond?

    I am skeptical he will axe hardware at this point; because, at the end of the day, Blackberry is a hardware company before a software and services company and it has always been the sales of hardware that sell the software and services.
    12-19-14 10:24 AM
  14. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    According to the Wall Street Journal, Blackberry has sold ~5.7 million smartphones thus far this year. It looks like Blackberry will fall short of its 10 million unit goal. I wonder how Chen will respond?

    I am skeptical he will axe hardware at this point; because, at the end of the day, Blackberry is a hardware company before a software and services company and it has always been the sales of hardware that sell the software and services.
    Blackberry was ALWAYS a hardware/software/services company. Phones were hardware, software was BES and services was email and BBM which got them the money for subscribers for each phone that they sold. People either don't know this or refuse to mention this. Now they are more on software and services which doesn't depend on them selling hardware. Chen mentioned that they had two enterprise customers that are running BES12 with zero Blackberry phones.
    KingOfQwerty, deremi and ponpiri like this.
    12-19-14 10:29 AM
  15. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Chen mentioned that they had two enterprise customers that are running BES12 with zero Blackberry phones.
    Just two?

    I am willing to acknowledge that BES12 is still young and that number will likely be much larger; but, two would corroborate my argument more than debunk it.
    12-19-14 10:31 AM
  16. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Samsung and other Android manufactures would love to get the margins that Blackberry gets on the phones.

    And Samsung's growith isn't in double digits.

    Samsung Q3 net profit tumbles by 49% | ZDNet
    Could you provide those exact margins for BB phones. A lot of people would really like to know that information.
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    12-19-14 10:38 AM
  17. yessuz's Avatar
    According to Gartner, 301 million smartphones were sold to end users in Q3.

    BlackBerry sold only 1.9 million units to end users in the last fiscal quarter, so their market share is less than 1%.

    BlackBerry is losing money with every phone they sell. I think the Classic is really the last resort. If this phone doesn't sell well then the hardware business is done.
    Not that they expect to make money with the hardware, but BlackBerry users in the enterprise increase the chances for BES12.
    you are wrong here, mate.
    Actually, hardware is sold with ~40% margin. they are not losing money.
    AnimalPak200 and hpjrt like this.
    12-19-14 10:40 AM
  18. yessuz's Avatar
    Could you provide those exact margins for BB phones. A lot of people would really like to know that information.
    they said it's about 40ish %
    12-19-14 10:41 AM
  19. anon1727506's Avatar
    EZ Pass was a FREE upgrade from existing BES10 or competitive products. That was licenses. EZ Pass with BES 12 hosting is another matter and while the licenses may be free, there is monthly charges for the hosting.
    Whatever the billing cycle, they aren't showing up as an increase in Service Revenues.

    EZ Pass got you a free perpetual Silver license.... and it's possible that for some, they might have migrated from a more expensive BES5 license to a free Silver licenses and that's all they needed, so in fact BlackBerry could be losing money by converting BES5 customers. But the hope was that many of these would need some of the Add-On features like BBM Protected, BlackBerry Blend, BBM Meetings, VPN Authentication, Premium Support. Or I'm sure BlackBerry hoped the free license would get their attention, but a Gold License would be what they would end up buying. Either that isn't happening, or they are losing more BIS customers than the growth in BES12 can account for.

    What ever the reason, revenue is not growing in the the Services category right now.
    12-19-14 10:43 AM
  20. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    According to Engadget, BlackBerry has been dead for several years so I guess they're changing their tone.

    Chen said he would like to get to 10 million phones a year, he didn't say it would happen THIS year. And on the EZ Pass thing, as someone else said above, those have been free until today. Other add-on are relatively new and many companies won't jump on them until all the wrinkles have been ironed out.
    playpen007, deremi and ponpiri like this.
    12-19-14 10:44 AM
  21. m1a1mg's Avatar
    they said it's about 40ish %
    NO, they didn't. They said they were working towards 40%.

    What is it now?
    12-19-14 10:45 AM
  22. insandouts's Avatar
    there was message, not sure, how accurate, that passports were about 10% of revenue. so this is like 120k passports shipped. kinda small number.
    What happened to the 200k units sold on launch day? Can Blackberry hire a CEO that does not lie?
    12-19-14 10:47 AM
  23. dbmalloy's Avatar
    I think what is lacking is perspective... 2 things that need to remember is where BB is coming from and where they are going.... Considering the write downs... company bloat and lack of vision... I think Chen has done a remarkable job just to get to this point.... as to where BB is going... " Enterprise all the way with emphasis on software and services".... Chen has been crystal clear on his vision... yet people continue to harp on hardware sales..,. face facts ... BB is not longer competing in the the consumer market... perhaps someday but not now.... whether can make the transition to software and services in the Enterprise market remains to be seen,.... but this constant focus on hardware just shows many simply do not understand where BB is headed... either a niche company or to oblivion.....
    12-19-14 10:49 AM
  24. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    NO, they didn't. They said they were working towards 40%.
    I'm quite sure it's over 40% because a few months ago, they said it was north of 40%. This quarter, this is what they had to say:

    "Non-GAAP and GAAP gross margin of 52%, driven by a second consecutive quarter of positive hardware gross margin"
    12-19-14 10:50 AM
  25. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    there was message, not sure, how accurate, that passports were about 10% of revenue. so this is like 120k passports shipped. kinda small number.
    What happened to the 200k units sold on launch day? Can Blackberry hire a CEO that does not lie?
    REVENUE (total), not "hardware revenue," meaning the figure also includes service revenue? Please clarify.
    12-19-14 10:52 AM
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