04-06-14 12:32 AM
39 12
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    I think the problem wasn't the os it was the devices and in particular the fact the belt was missing on the Q10 and Q5. For all the talk about how the Z10 outselling the qwerty devices, the truth is the public by more than two to one still prefer BlackBerry devices with a keyboard.

    Actually the problem isn't simply the buttons.

    At least half the problem is that the touch UI on BB10 isn't very polished. If cursor management and select/copy/paste worked better on BB10, people wouldn't be lamenting the loss of the buttons so much.

    So for both those reasons, there's no doubt in my mind that textual entry on legacy OS was more efficient than BB10, as stated above. On the other hand, legacy OS had all sorts of other problems.

    In addition, I personally find physical call/end buttons to be very handy. Not only can you quickly and reliably redial or end calls without having to look at the phone, if they build the UI right they can solve the "accidental call" problem which is really horrible on BB10. I have never in over 20 years of using cellphones had so much problem with accidental calls as I do on BB10. (Though as I have posted here many times before, that is mostly due to stupid touch UI design, and could be easily corrected if the UI designers had half a clue. )
    04-05-14 09:06 AM
  2. NYC10065's Avatar
    Interesting comparison but not entirely relevant.

    When Coke went back to Coke Classic after they abandoned New Coke, there were no peripheral considerations to that decision.

    For an OS like BB10 vs BBOS, however, not only would they have to switch OS's, they would also have to convince an already largely skeptical development community that BBOS was the right vehicle for the long run. Let's not forget that the biggest criticism of both BBOS and BB10 from nearly all sides is the dearth of apps available. BBOS was losing marketshare because of its many limitations (apps, clunky surfing, etc). So the decision for BBRY may not be as clear cut -- although watching Chen's actions lately (boasting that he forced the name "Classic" over the objections of his marketing executives), he may actually be naive enough to do so.

    BB10 has been a flop because if utterly failed to take the best attributes of BBOS and combine it with the best attributes of iOS/Android along with new innovations. I remember when I got my first BB10 device, the Z10. I tried so hard to really love it but after a couple of weeks absolutely hated it because it did not have my favorite elements from BBOS and it lacked so many apps I wanted to experience from iOS/Android despite the promise from BBRY that all the major apps were on the way. I gave BB10 a second change with the Q10 and it still disappointed (and continues to do so).

    So while some may like to contend that BB10.2 is "lightyears" ahead of iOS or Android, that really is a matter of opinion and one that is simply not shared by the vast majority of smartphone users.

    The only hope I see for BBRY is for them to finally realize that BB10 failed to retain traditional BB users while also failing to attract iOS and Android users. The only way they can do both is by taking the best features of BBOS and combining them with the best features of iOS and Android in addition to some innovative BB10 features. But it may all be too late for BBRY.
    bbq10l likes this.
    04-05-14 09:30 AM
  3. the_sleuth's Avatar
    I agree with your assessment. It's the UI of BB10. If BB10 was launched with less gestures, perhaps, an answer call icon and end call icon. Also a virtual track pad for Q10 users for easier cursor positioning when editing text.

    UI of BB10 was a radical change for BB core users, mostly Bold users in enterprise. Even after over one year, I am not surprised BB7 devices still outsell BB10 devices 2 to 1. And BB is bringing back Bold device production. And new devices will have a physical track pad and BB button

    Actually the problem isn't simply the buttons.

    At least half the problem is that the touch UI on BB10 isn't very polished. If cursor management and select/copy/paste worked better on BB10, people wouldn't be lamenting the loss of the buttons so much.

    So for both those reasons, there's no doubt in my mind that textual entry on legacy OS was more efficient than BB10, as stated above. On the other hand, legacy OS had all sorts of other problems.

    In addition, I personally find physical call/end buttons to be very handy. Not only can you quickly and reliably redial or end calls without having to look at the phone, if they build the UI right they can solve the "accidental call" problem which is really horrible on BB10. I have never in over 20 years of using cellphones had so much problem with accidental calls as I do on BB10. (Though as I have posted here many times before, that is mostly due to stupid touch UI design, and could be easily corrected if the UI designers had half a clue. )
    04-05-14 09:33 AM
  4. nathfren's Avatar
    I believe the first ever recipe of Coca-cola had cocaine in it, so I hope they didn't go back to the very original version

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-14 11:43 AM
  5. leejayh's Avatar
    Interesting thread.

    I am a big fan of the idea of the belt and mapping the right functions to the belt buttons. I can see the Menu button being quite contexual as well as the back button.

    And the poster who said they like the real call and end buttons to end calls, i completely agree. I have not had any ghost calling - but I do like the definitive END button. And the trackpad is unparalleled for navigating in text. The cursor mgmt on the BB is better than on any other phone hands down. But, just the nature of a touchscreen - it will never be as good as a trackpad.
    04-05-14 02:49 PM
  6. DavideaNY's Avatar
    Chen has recognized the "mistake" done by the old management. The Q20, named BlackBerry Classic, will be produced exactly with the purpose of providing the "old Coke" taste but without the inconvenience of battery pulls and spinning hour glasses..

    However BlackBerry simultaneously will bring into the market new devices such the Q30 and Z50 to introduce new products that are mostly needed in the highly dynamic reality of the consumer electronics (area extremely different from the beverage market!)

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-14 02:51 PM
  7. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Chen has recognized the "mistake" done by the old management. The Q20, named BlackBerry Classic, will be produced exactly with the purpose of providing the "old Coke" taste but without the inconvenience of battery pulls and spinning hour glasses..

    However BlackBerry simultaneously will bring into the market new devices such the Q30 and Z50 to introduce new products that are mostly needed in the highly dynamic reality of the consumer electronics (area extremely different from the beverage market!)

    Posted via CB10
    There is no Z50 to be confirmed....

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    04-05-14 03:04 PM
  8. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    ^^^ Truth. Coca-Cola brought out New Coke to mask their transition from using cane sugar to using corn syrup. And the palate-challenged American general public didn't even notice. Drink a coke canned in America vs one bottled in Mexico (or anywhere else that doesn't have corn subsidies) and you'll see.

    From a Z30
    I agree completely.

    Posted via CB10 on BlackBerry Q5
    04-05-14 03:45 PM
  9. Omnitech's Avatar
    ^^^ Truth. Coca-Cola brought out New Coke to mask their transition from using cane sugar to using corn syrup. And the palate-challenged American general public didn't even notice. Drink a coke canned in America vs one bottled in Mexico (or anywhere else that doesn't have corn subsidies) and you'll see.
    Not only corn subsidies, but sugar/sugarcane tariffs, as I understand it. (ie on Brazil, which is the largest producer)

    Also: HFCS is much cheaper per "sweetness unit" than traditional sucrose.

    But companies are starting to switch back, slowly. Only took ~35 years.
    04-05-14 04:10 PM
  10. Xenolock's Avatar
    Not only corn subsidies, but sugar/sugarcane tariffs, as I understand it. (ie on Brazil, which is the largest producer)

    Also: HFCS is much cheaper per "sweetness unit" than traditional sucrose.

    But companies are starting to switch back, slowly. Only took ~35 years.
    Yeah, that's true. Kind of a combination of tariffs and subsidies. Ever try the "new" throwback Dr. Pepper with cane sugar? Mmm Mmm good!



    From a Z30
    04-05-14 06:24 PM
  11. Xenolock's Avatar
    In addition, I personally find physical call/end buttons to be very handy. Not only can you quickly and reliably redial or end calls without having to look at the phone, if they build the UI right they can solve the "accidental call" problem which is really horrible on BB10. I have never in over 20 years of using cellphones had so much problem with accidental calls as I do on BB10.
    That's why I power the screen off before I put it in my pocket. Also, whenever I'm taking a call I minimize the phone screen, especially when using speakerphone. Those 2 things have pretty much eliminated the ghost dial & hangup problems, but I see the wisdom in starting/ending calls with physical buttons now.


    From a Z30
    04-05-14 06:30 PM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    However BlackBerry simultaneously will bring into the market new devices such the Q30 and Z50
    I'm not sure where you're getting this at. Chen has confirmed the Z3 being released next week and the Q20 "Classic" as being released in November 2013, but beyond that, there have been no announcements. If you seriously think BB will be releasing 3 devices at once given their financial situation, you may have been spending too much time in Colorado...

    (where weed is legal).
    04-05-14 07:52 PM
  13. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I'm not sure where you're getting this at. Chen has confirmed the Z3 being released next week and the Q20 "Classic" as being released in November 2013, but beyond that, there have been no announcements. If you seriously think BB will be releasing 3 devices at once given their financial situation, you may have been spending too much time in Colorado...

    (where weed is legal).
    They technically haven't cancelled these high end touch devices

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    04-05-14 08:53 PM
  14. DavideaNY's Avatar
    I'm not sure where you're getting this at. Chen has confirmed the Z3 being released next week and the Q20 "Classic" as being released in November 2013, but beyond that, there have been no announcements. If you seriously think BB will be releasing 3 devices at once given their financial situation, you may have been spending too much time in Colorado...

    (where weed is legal).
    I actually love Colorado but for skiing activities thanks....

    It has previously stated that they are working on at least one higher end QWERTY device. Call it as you prefer.. Q30, 40 or whatever. It will not have the "belt" like the classic and because of that it may be actually released BEFORE the Q20 (no need for specific software adaptation).

    Regarding the high end touch device it may have been cancelled but there are only rumors about that.

    By the way, also your statement that the Z3 will be launched next week is not officially confirmed but it is just another rumor. The only official news is that it will be, in Indonesia, a May launch.

    We are all dealing with just some speculations based on the existing rumors. At the moment the only people more informed are probably only those working internally on the prototypes..

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by DavideaNY; 04-06-14 at 02:10 PM.
    04-06-14 12:32 AM
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