12-05-17 11:31 AM
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  1. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    Outbid Google, Apple, or Microsoft?
    If the only alternative is to fail due to the lack of those apps, then yes. Or what else?
    01-08-17 10:05 PM
  2. tre10's Avatar
    Why conspiracy? Just not rejecting any possibilities. It was a war, especially with Microsoft, to be the 3rd.

    I just can't imagine any money making business not willing to reach a further few million customers at no cost or effort. I'd understand if the platform was considered to small to invest any time and money into making and supporting a client for it, but if they were really offered to have it done and supported for free then it just makes no sense, unless what I wrote.
    It wouldn't be the first time app makers have discriminated. Windows phone will likely never have a Snapchat app because Snapchat 's CEO doesn't like them.

    http://iankar.kinja.com/snapchat-ceo...bil-1474718209
    01-08-17 10:06 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    If the only alternative is to fail due to the lack of those apps, then yes. Or what else?
    Sell the company or get out of hardware.
    01-08-17 10:08 PM
  4. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    You are right. My memory of having to convert apk early on failed me.

    As for all the never downloaded apps, that I don't doubt. There are a lot of crap apps out there. That good apps lay hidden in any app store, that I doubt.
    It's not really just about crap apps. It's also because for every use you may think of there are thousands of identical apps. The article I quoted says that already in 2012 there were ~ 1900 flashlight apps for Android, so by today there are probably 10x more.

    Search results in app stores are usually sorted by popularity and/or user rating, so always the same (already popular and rated) apps come first. No one bothers to dig any deeper and check the 7835th listed flashlight app, only always the same top 10 or 20 get downloaded. So even if there's a true pearl among those thousands of newer ones, hardly anyone bothers to dig it out. The developer needs to advertise it whenever possible to make people try it, and only if it gets enough downloads and ratings/reviews it will make it a little bit higher on the list where anyone can find it. Hard and time consuming work.

    Flashlight is obviously just a trivial example, it looks the same with almost any app type you might imagine. Apps tracking the ISS station? Hundreds. Apps calculating moon phases? Thousands. And so on.

    That's the very reason why I preferred to stay on BB10: it is still possible to make apps (at least when it comes to native ones) that no one else has done before. Majority of my apps don't have any direct native equivalents.
    01-08-17 10:19 PM
  5. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    Sell the company or get out of hardware.
    Yes, but why after so many years of whining?
    01-08-17 10:20 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Yes, but why after so many years of whining?
    What do you mean? They tried to sell the company in the fall of 2013. When that failed, they hired software specialist Chen to pivot away from hardware - which they began immediately.
    01-08-17 10:24 PM
  7. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    It wouldn't be the first time app makers have discriminated. Windows phone will likely never have a Snapchat app because Snapchat 's CEO doesn't like them.

    Snapchat CEO Evan Speigel Doesn't Care For Windows Mobile
    Funny article. It always amuses me when one tries to impress people with PERCENTAGE values without giving the actual numbers. 156% marketshare growth may as well mean that the user base has grown from 100 to 256 people The lower the starting value the easier it is to get huge percentage increase just by adding A FEW people to the group. Android growing by one billion users would give lower percentage than Windows Phone growing by one million....
    01-08-17 10:26 PM
  8. tre10's Avatar
    Funny article. It always amuses me when one tries to impress people with PERCENTAGE values without giving the actual numbers. 156% marketshare growth may as well mean that the user based has grown from 100 to 156 people
    Agreed on percentage values. That's smoke and mirrors shenanigans. The point here is though windows phone isn't getting snapchat because of a personal issue.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    01-08-17 10:30 PM
  9. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    What do you mean? They tried to sell the company in the fall of 2013. When that failed, they hired software specialist Chen to pivot away from hardware - which they began immediately.
    Well, you are right. It's just that I still can't believe that they had to go through all that mess rather than manage to make a few companies release their apps for their OS.
    01-08-17 10:33 PM
  10. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    It's not really just about crap apps. It's also because for every use you may think of there are thousands of identical apps. The article I quoted says that already in 2012 there were ~ 1900 flashlight apps for Android, so by today there are probably 10x more.

    Search results in app stores are usually sorted by popularity and/or user rating, so always the same (already popular and rated) apps come first. No one bothers to dig any deeper and check the 7835th listed flashlight app, only always the same top 10 or 20 get downloaded. So even if there's a true pearl among those thousands of newer ones, hardly anyone bothers to dig it out. The developer needs to advertise it whenever possible to make people try it, and only if it gets enough downloads and ratings/reviews it will make it a little bit higher on the list where anyone can find it. Hard and time consuming work.

    Flashlight is obviously just a trivial example, it looks the same with almost any app type you might imagine. Apps tracking the ISS station? Hundreds. Apps calculating moon phases? Thousands. And so on.

    That's the very reason why I preferred to stay on BB10: it is still possible to make apps (at least when it comes to native ones) that no one else has done before. Majority of my apps don't have any direct native equivalents.
    I think we all understand how competition works. That doesn't address your claim of quality apps, which never have seen a single download, unless they are apps identical to already existing apps that are popular. I can see that as a reality. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
    01-08-17 10:41 PM
  11. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Well, you are right. It's just that I still can't believe that they had to go through all that mess rather than manage to make a few companies release their apps for their OS.
    Make?
    01-08-17 10:42 PM
  12. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    Agreed on percentage values. That's smoke and mirrors shenanigans. The point here is though windows phone isn't getting snapchat because of a personal issue.
    That article is from early 2013. At that point WP 7.x was really a hopeless P.O.S. and with marketshare that only Jolla could envy. Those 8 million of all Lumia models combined sold by Nokia in whole 2012 (the guy on Twitter was so happy about) was actually a DISASTER for Nokia that sucked all their money dry and killed the company. A year earlier they were selling 4 million per quarter of the Symbian based Nokia N8 alone.

    So I somehow understand that Snapchat guy's attitude AT THAT TIME. It's like if he was asked today to make a client for the Jolla....
    01-08-17 10:45 PM
  13. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    Make?
    Yes, make, whatever it takes. Nothing is impossible in business, everything is a matter of price and determination. Maybe if they paid a few million in 2012 they wouldn't have lost those same few million in 2013 and ended up with popular OS that then would have earned them that money back with surplus.
    Last edited by BurningPlatform; 01-08-17 at 11:02 PM.
    01-08-17 10:51 PM
  14. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Yes, make, whatever it takes. Nothing is impossible in business, everything is a matter of price and determination.
    They're a publicly held company. While they could pay whatever it takes, those decisions would have to answer to the board and shareholders. Once known, all major apps would expect the same treatment. BlackBerry assets are limited. I know they made offers. Apparently the price of extortion was too high.
    Fret Madden likes this.
    01-08-17 11:02 PM
  15. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    They're a publicly held company. While they could pay whatever it takes, those decisions would have to answer to the board and shareholders. Once known, all major apps would expect the same treatment. BlackBerry assets are limited. I know they made offers. Apparently the price of extortion was too high.
    So I guess we should assume that Netflix killed BB10....
    01-08-17 11:17 PM
  16. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    So I guess we should assume that Netflix killed BB10....
    I assume it was dead long before that. You may assume whatever you wish.
    01-08-17 11:24 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    So I guess we should assume that Netflix killed BB10....
    Not just.

    Also Line, Snapchat, Hangouts, Instagram, Flickr, Feedly, Spotify, Rdio, Shazam, Soundcloud, Vine, Vimeo, Hulu, the Google apps, Microsoft Office, and countless others.
    01-08-17 11:35 PM
  18. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    Not just.

    Also Line, Snapchat, Hangouts, Instagram, Flickr, Feedly, Spotify, Rdio, Shazam, Soundcloud, Vine, Vimeo, Hulu, the Google apps, Microsoft Office, and countless others.
    It would be interesting to know how many of them were available for Windows Phone in 2012-2013.
    01-08-17 11:44 PM
  19. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    You may assume whatever you wish.
    I know. And I do.
    01-08-17 11:45 PM
  20. tre10's Avatar
    That article is from early 2013. At that point WP 7.x was really a hopeless P.O.S. and with marketshare that only Jolla could envy. Those 8 million of all Lumia models combined sold by Nokia in whole 2012 (the guy on Twitter was so happy about) was actually a DISASTER for Nokia that sucked all their money dry and killed the company. A year earlier they were selling 4 million per quarter of the Symbian based Nokia N8 alone.

    So I somehow understand that Snapchat guy's attitude AT THAT TIME. It's like if he was asked today to make a client for the Jolla....
    Requests were made after WP 8 and 8.1 and Snapchat still turned them down. BB10 never had much more marketshare that WP if I recall correctly. No one saw any point in making apps for either of them. Microsoft paid a ransom for some apps I believe. Still didn't get them anywhere though. If BlackBerry had done the same if would likely be the same story.
    01-08-17 11:57 PM
  21. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Requests were made after WP 8 and 8.1 and Snapchat still turned them down. BB10 never had much more marketshare that WP if I recall correctly. No one saw any point in making apps for either of them. Microsoft paid a ransom for some apps I believe. Still didn't get them anywhere though. If BlackBerry had done the same if would likely be the same story.
    BlackBerry was late to the game and underestimated the market. They simply thought all the BlackBerry users would migrate to BlackBerry 10. Their hubris was misguided. They underestimated the impact of a shiny new device called an iPhone and laughed at it. They were wrong.

    Posted via CB10
    01-09-17 07:16 AM
  22. stlabrat's Avatar
    i think you guys missed fact that BBM is competitor of wechat and whatsapp if cross platform at time. facebook was in the plan to make their brand of phone around the same time. amazon also in the similar boat after they copied playbook successfully via low price or no price tablet to push their on line shopping (similar to the BLU phone that some CB user like for the price nowadays). the only possible suitor was possibly window - but the nokia CEO successfully drive down the nokia stock price to a range that microsoft can afford to pay, rest are history... (the BB channel promoted so much "business", almost like amazon wantable, push eye candy rather than substance is rather sad - looking back). The carrier also not ready to push bbm video chat due to what ever the reason (wifi, possibly, not make them any money) - may be due to band width constrain at 2013 - LTE readiness still limited. all that - chip are stacking against BB. of course, the money spend on elephant feet didn't help. IMHO.
    By the way, reading this board is possibly better than the "lost signal" (havn't read it yet. ;-).
    01-09-17 09:21 AM
  23. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Requests were made after WP 8 and 8.1 and Snapchat still turned them down. BB10 never had much more marketshare that WP if I recall correctly. No one saw any point in making apps for either of them. Microsoft paid a ransom for some apps I believe. Still didn't get them anywhere though. If BlackBerry had done the same if would likely be the same story.
    Agree... 2013 was just too late in the smartphone market to launch a whole new OS. Which is why the half dozen or so "new" operating systems that have launched for 2010 onward have pretty much died out or are barely on life support. If Samsung didn't have other types of devices to push TIZEN, I doubt it would be still around. Microsoft has shown that throwing money at the problem doesn't fix it.

    2005 was the time to start working on BBOS's replacement... with a launch windows of 2008 at the latest.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    01-09-17 09:58 AM
  24. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Agreed on percentage values. That's smoke and mirrors shenanigans. The point here is though windows phone isn't getting snapchat because of a personal issue.
    I get you, but I wonder how much the personal issue really had to do with it.

    I know several multiplatform developers that despise Apple and/or Android. They develop for those platforms though.

    Money has way of supplanting feelings. There really isn't any in Windows Phone development.
    Troy Tiscareno and BigBadWulf like this.
    01-09-17 03:32 PM
  25. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Requests were made after WP 8 and 8.1 and Snapchat still turned them down. BB10 never had much more marketshare that WP if I recall correctly. No one saw any point in making apps for either of them. Microsoft paid a ransom for some apps I believe. Still didn't get them anywhere though. If BlackBerry had done the same if would likely be the same story.
    I agree, and this is why I agree with BBRY not paying those ransoms.
    01-09-17 03:34 PM
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