12-09-13 04:02 PM
51 123
tools
  1. m1a1mg's Avatar
    I have followed Heins all his calls and comments...surely he made lot of immature comments, mistakes ..etc...I was just responding to your comment that you will know a lot about Chen in the call...I don't think you will know much...in one month on the job...if you really want to know more about him you should study sybase.

    Posted via CB10
    Chen is not a total outsider. He knew a lot of what was going on in the company.

    I think that h20work is saying he wants to see how BB approaches the ER, not necessarily what's in the the ER. I agree completely. Last ER was a bad joke. Both in information and presentation.
    JeepBB and h20work like this.
    12-04-13 08:06 AM
  2. m1a1mg's Avatar
    I tried Googling "MDM market share", and didn't get much. A number of shameless advertising puffs from each of the MDM vendors, but no independent figures that I could find.

    Several of the pieces I did find spoke of how the MDM market is expected to see massive growth in future... so Chen may be onto something there.

    Anyone have some hard numbers?

    Preferably numbers for commercial installations rather than test/evaluation installations...
    Hard to find actual numbers.

    additionally, are we talking MDM or EMM?
    12-04-13 08:10 AM
  3. BB10user07's Avatar
    Chen is not a total outsider. He knew a lot of what was going on in the company.

    I think that h20work is saying he wants to see how BB approaches the ER, not necessarily what's in the the ER. I agree completely. Last ER was a bad joke. Both in information and presentation.
    I know you, h2 and Troy are pretty much on the same side of BlackBerry trade

    Posted via CB10
    12-04-13 08:30 AM
  4. JeepBB's Avatar
    I know you, h2 and Troy are pretty much on the same side of BlackBerry trade

    Posted via CB10



    Doesn't make them wrong tho, does it?

    Or did you want to add them, and me I guess, to the global conspiracy against BB?





    JBB
    anon1727506, h20work and kbz1960 like this.
    12-04-13 08:58 AM
  5. anon1727506's Avatar
    87% of the Fortune 500 relies on BES. With over 30,000 BES10 commercial and test servers installed to date around the world, our multi-platform user base counts more customers than MobileIron, Good, and AirWatch put together, and includes the world?s top ten banking and automotive firms.

    http://el.blackberry.com/bes10facts

    Van City Coffee ; WhitecapsFC ; PreMed Community ; Bristol Rovers Football Club
    And at one time BlackBerry owned 70% of the smartphone business.... What BlackBerry accomplished with BES doesn't not relate to what will happen with BES10. You don't have 30+ MDM platforms on the market today because BlackBerry has it all "wrapped up", it's because people are looking for alternatives - simpler, cheaper and that work better with the devices that companies are using.

    I think 30K installations is a great number! But adding the words test... can only mean that the number of operational installations is MUCH lower than one would expect at this point. And I don't expect BlackBerry or Chen to tell us anything different - if you don't have anything good to report, you spin it! As a public company, you don't report bad numbers if it isn't a legal requirement.

    We all know that enterprise has been holding off to allow BlackBerry to get the "kinks" worked out of their new OS. I'm sure a 3 - 6 month delay was planned by many of these testers. The whole "we are for sale" fiasco threw a money wrench in many plans, and now there was some hesitation to go forward. We have to HOPE that these testers have not already started testing other alternatives, of if they do they will find them unacceptable and will see the installation of Chen as enough of a reassurance that BlackBerry is "in it to win it" and not going anywhere.

    Personally, I think BlackBerry left the barn door open....
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-04-13 09:34 AM
  6. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Of course Blackberry continues to lump the "testing" numbers with the "installed" numbers.

    The number of installed must be low since there was an increase overall, but after all this time they still won't give installed number.

    EDIT: and yes, an increase of 5,000 overall after 6 months is nothing to brag about - especially considering that number includes those who've only tested.
    ^^^^ this.

    If Chen is to be believed, this is the niche that BB is going to build their recovery on. And, after many months, they are still lumping test installations into the numbers as well as being vague as to the number of paying customers. I'm sure this news will be spun positively, but it's hard for me to see it as evidence of being a firm foundation for BB growth.
    Can anyone provide numbers of installs that competitors have to their names? Its hard to evaluate this data without some perspective on the competition.
    Thank you for asking !

    MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. – January 22, 2013 – MobileIron, the leader in security and management for mobile apps, documents, and devices, today announced massive growth in 2012, tripling the number of new seats sold in 2012 compared to 2011. Customer acquisition continued to accelerate as the company added more than 700 enterprise customers per quarter.
    M0bile Ir0n:
    Optimistic approach (presuming 0 client stopped (or went bankrupt) and the growth was constant +700 Q2Q.)
    2012 = 700*4 = 2800
    2011 = 50% of 2800 = 1400
    Let's add some for 2013, say 3*700 = 2100
    So the big number is :
    userbase over 3 years = 2800+1400+2100 = 6300.
    But nothing about the CALs # ... which, obviously is where you earn money.

    Interesting too is the size of the companies, you may have a look at their reference page here :
    MobileIron Customers | MobileIron
    More fun ?
    They seem to have all the top ten companies in a given area ... see air watch banner V.S MobileIron banner
    Customers |*AirWatch

    Some more data ...
    G00D : 5,000 organizations (Industries but number is at the bottom of the page for the whole)
    A1rwatch : 9,000 customers (http://www.air-watch.com/company/about-us)
    Kn0x = 0

    GRAN TOTAL : 6300+5000+9000 = 15800

    P.S : these numbers are estimated and/or issued from personal calculations. Actual number may vary +/-.
    Just an estimation to give metrics magnitude.

    So this this something as half of current BES10 install/testing ...
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-04-13 11:26 AM
  7. JasW's Avatar
    A friend of mine who works at a large law firm just forwarded me the following:

    This e-mail is being sent to all firm personnel,

    The firm has decided that it will not support the new Blackberry devices (Blackberry 10). The majority of firm personnel have switched to Android or Apple devices, and the long term viability of Blackberry is in question.

    For those of you who currently use Blackberry devices, we will continue to support them, but the support will be re-evaluated at the end of 2014. As your contract expires, we recommend that you replace it with an Apple, Android (Google), or Windows smartphone. Those platforms will all be supported. Note that Apple has a feature called Activation Lock that prevents someone from stealing your smartphone and reselling it.

    Thank you.

    Emphasis in original there.
    12-04-13 11:59 AM
  8. anon1727506's Avatar
    Thank you for asking !



    M0bile Ir0n:
    Optimistic approach (presuming 0 client stopped (or went bankrupt) and the growth was constant +700 Q2Q.)
    2012 = 700*4 = 2800
    2011 = 50% of 2800 = 1400
    Let's add some for 2013, say 3*700 = 2100
    So the big number is :
    userbase over 3 years = 2800+1400+2100 = 6300.
    But nothing about the CALs # ... which, obviously is where you earn money.

    Interesting too is the size of the companies, you may have a look at their reference page here :
    MobileIron Customers | MobileIron
    More fun ?
    They seem to have all the top ten companies in a given area ... see air watch banner V.S MobileIron banner
    Customers |*AirWatch

    Some more data ...
    G00D : 5,000 organizations (Industries but number is at the bottom of the page for the whole)
    A1rwatch : 9,000 customers (About Us | AirWatch)
    Kn0x = 0

    GRAN TOTAL : 6300+5000+9000 = 15800

    P.S : these numbers are estimated and/or issued from personal calculations. Actual number may vary +/-.
    Just an estimation to give metrics magnitude.

    So this this something as half of current BES10 install/testing ...
    Thanks for the research.....

    Given that there are a couple dozen other MDM platform not in your counts.... I think it is safe to say the BlackBerry's "niche" is not a sure thing these days. They need to stabilize the company, and really promote the best features of BES10 and how secure it is using BB10 devices.
    12-04-13 03:50 PM
  9. dusdal's Avatar
    And at one time BlackBerry owned 70% of the smartphone business.... What BlackBerry accomplished with BES doesn't not relate to what will happen with BES10. You don't have 30+ MDM platforms on the market today because BlackBerry has it all "wrapped up", it's because people are looking for alternatives - simpler, cheaper and that work better with the devices that companies are using.

    I think 30K installations is a great number! But adding the words test... can only mean that the number of operational installations is MUCH lower than one would expect at this point. And I don't expect BlackBerry or Chen to tell us anything different - if you don't have anything good to report, you spin it! As a public company, you don't report bad numbers if it isn't a legal requirement.

    We all know that enterprise has been holding off to allow BlackBerry to get the "kinks" worked out of their new OS. I'm sure a 3 - 6 month delay was planned by many of these testers. The whole "we are for sale" fiasco threw a money wrench in many plans, and now there was some hesitation to go forward. We have to HOPE that these testers have not already started testing other alternatives, of if they do they will find them unacceptable and will see the installation of Chen as enough of a reassurance that BlackBerry is "in it to win it" and not going anywhere.

    Personally, I think BlackBerry left the barn door open....
    Okay

    Van City Coffee ; WhitecapsFC ; PreMed Community ; Bristol Rovers Football Club
    12-04-13 04:22 PM
  10. Mr.mister's Avatar
    So the 30 000 for bes10.2 is bad?


    Better android than android. The future is black....
    12-04-13 04:41 PM
  11. dusdal's Avatar
    I am fairly ignorant to the technicalities of it all, but it sounds like BlackBerry is offering a better product and at lower cost.

    And, unlike their handsets, they are launching into an environment where they are the dominant player.

    No on either point?

    Van City Coffee ; WhitecapsFC ; PreMed Community ; Bristol Rovers Football Club
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    12-04-13 04:45 PM
  12. m1a1mg's Avatar
    So the 30 000 for bes10.2 is bad?
    Not bad. Nor good. It's one of those false metrics that BBRY, and their fanboi's, love to spout. They've been saying tested and installed since June. It's about time to say how many installs.
    JeepBB and Mr.mister like this.
    12-04-13 06:20 PM
  13. dusdal's Avatar
    Not bad. Nor good. It's one of those false metrics that BBRY, and their fanboi's, love to spout. They've been saying tested and installed since June. It's about time to say how many installs.
    Surely an increase in test servers coupled with Morgan Stanley and the Welsh health authority and others implementing BES 10 this could at least be deemed cautiously positive?

    Van City Coffee ; WhitecapsFC ; PreMed Community ; Bristol Rovers Football Club
    h20work, JeepBB and Superfly_FR like this.
    12-04-13 06:36 PM
  14. bobshine's Avatar
    6 more months and only 5000 additional installs or testing? When they had 25000 after only being released for like 6 months? (I'm guesstimating when the "summer" was... It could be 4 and 8 months.)

    I'm not going to try to make out whether 30000 installs/testing is good or bad; but, this definitely shows BES 10 adoption is slowing rather than making headway. I don't know why Blackberry would bother publishing such bad figures and trying to spin it.
    I think it's 30,000 servers. What's the average number of phone per BES servers?

    Posted via CB10
    12-04-13 06:38 PM
  15. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Surely an increase in test servers coupled with Morgan Stanley and the Welsh health authority and others implementing BES 10 this could at least be deemed cautiously positive?
    Yes, I agree. With an emphasis on cautiously. I was optimistic until June 28th.
    dusdal likes this.
    12-04-13 06:45 PM
  16. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Doesn't make them wrong tho, does it?

    Or did you want to add them, and me I guess, to the global conspiracy against BB?




    JBB
    He's my shadow. Don't encourage him.
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-04-13 07:18 PM
  17. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Thanks for the research.....

    Given that there are a couple dozen other MDM platform not in your counts.... I think it is safe to say the BlackBerry's "niche" is not a sure thing these days. They need to stabilize the company, and really promote the best features of BES10 and how secure it is using BB10 devices.
    Not bad. Nor good. It's one of those false metrics that BBRY, and their fanboi's, love to spout. They've been saying tested and installed since June. It's about time to say how many installs.
    Yes, I agree. With an emphasis on cautiously. I was optimistic until June 28th.
    The point is, most of this "dozen other MDM platform" does not support BlackBerry devices, especially BB10 (Fixmo only). More they are often complementary in the offering, being MDM or/and BYOD or brand specific. As many "layers" enterprises have to deploy, pay and maintain for the "full Monthy". The figures I gave are the biggest vendors' if you exclude "connectors" you can find in solutions provided by IBM or SAP, for instance. Many of these (dozen) platforms barely claim a multiple of 100 sites.

    In the offering, BES10 have very strong differenciators :
    1. One stop offer (multi-platform (BBOS,BB10,Android, Apple) MDM/BYOD)
    2. Support of both smartphones and tablets (iPads)
    3. Long time proven (experience and certifications) reliability and security

    Given the current BlackBerry "image" (with the supposed risk of diseapearing) current BES10 figures are more than attractive.
    Just to give another range, the Fortune 500 # of employees is around 25Million ... 80% is 20Million (2006 figures, sry didn't find actualized total data). DOD is 3Million+ alone (not included in F500).
    edit: also, the 30K install/test figure does not include the 10Ks of BES5 installations actually operational worldwide ... for years (and probably waiting for BES10 deployment experience returns before even considering it).
    So, no, that's not a "small niche". Miles away from anything small

    BlackBerry must regain the confidence of enterprises, as a long-term healthy company. That's where Chen challenge is. We have to know how he/BOD will manage that, either with enforced communication (started already) and/or with enterprise partitioning ... that we don't have a clue, yet.

    My [Armchair CEO] POV would be to create a holding with separated entities based on their activities (V.S hardware/software). Make BBM, Enterprise and Consumer spinoffs that share resources ... oh.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 12-05-13 at 05:48 AM.
    jxnb likes this.
    12-05-13 03:55 AM
  18. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Super, I agree. BB should still be able to dominate EMM. But I disagree that they will do it with BB10. Sorry, I just don't see taking off in enterprise.
    12-05-13 07:03 AM
  19. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Super, I agree. BB should still be able to dominate EMM. But I disagree that they will do it with BB10. Sorry, I just don't see taking off in enterprise.
    Oh, them we half agree. I believe they will succeed with BES10 in a multi-platfom devices scenario.
    And BB CAL = $19 V.S iOS/Android CAL = $99 ... I'm not sure even BlackBerry does not prefer this, right now ...
    Then the economic scale of things and the "BB devices only features" may play in favor of BB10+BES10 bundles while iOS CALs will be most used for iPads ...

    Last but not least, any enterprise alloted BB10 device ends in a consumer hands ... best promo for BlackBerry IMHO.
    12-05-13 08:30 AM
  20. BBPandy's Avatar
    Thanks for the research.....

    Given that there are a couple dozen other MDM platform not in your counts.... I think it is safe to say the BlackBerry's "niche" is not a sure thing these days. They need to stabilize the company, and really promote the best features of BES10 and how secure it is using BB10 devices.
    While it's true that there are other MDM's that he/she didn't list. He did list the major ones. Even Knox which doesn't have any customers & is only being tested by 200 companies (& from what I hear those tests are not going well)

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    12-06-13 05:15 PM
  21. Doolittle2's Avatar
    I think any growth is good at this point, given the recent uncertainty around BlackBerry's future.

    Edit: The way I see it, testing isn't all bad. If BlackBerry is truly a superior solution, it should be chosen. If it isn't, then sadly a poor outlook is warranted. The next few months will be telling, with respect to both the competitiveness of BES 10 and John Chen's ability to instill confidence among institutional customers. My company (a very large Fortune 500 company) has backed away completely from BlackBerry because of concerns about the future of BlackBerry. The only hope for BlackBerry at my company is if the new solution is found to be lacking relative to the BES solution.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Doolittle2; 12-07-13 at 01:00 PM.
    dusdal likes this.
    12-07-13 10:39 AM
  22. TBone4eva's Avatar
    How long are you able to use a test server though? BES10 website is saying 60 day trial period. Obviously if you are a large customer you can negotiate a longer testing period, but eventually they have to say yes or no and start paying. So, the fact that the overall numbers, whether they be test servers or not, still keep increasing is good news...for now.
    12-08-13 10:02 AM
  23. JeepBB's Avatar
    How long are you able to use a test server though? BES10 website is saying 60 day trial period. Obviously if you are a large customer you can negotiate a longer testing period, but eventually they have to say yes or no and start paying. So, the fact that the overall numbers, whether they be test servers or not, still keep increasing is good news...for now.
    Possibly.

    It certainly better than those combined numbers getting smaller, but (AFAIK) Test installations don't bring a penny into the BB coffers.

    Until BB provides some clarity over the conversion rate of test to commercial installations, and what the commercial installations now stand at, BB continually quoting the combined number is a fairly meaningless figure IMO. It's another of those "semi-truths" designed to give a warm feeling.
    12-08-13 10:37 AM
  24. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    How long are you able to use a test server though? BES10 website is saying 60 day trial period. Obviously if you are a large customer you can negotiate a longer testing period, but eventually they have to say yes or no and start paying. So, the fact that the overall numbers, whether they be test servers or not, still keep increasing is good news...for now.
    The point is, testing in large companies often means "deploy to a very limited scale and run it in the wild to ensure it's bullet proof and match needs". This means, the company is not considered as a "client" until these tests are validated and BES10 granted to wider deployment. (until then, the company is on a free testing program and 60 days is nowhere enough for a very large company). Therefore the "and/or" statements ...
    12-08-13 05:02 PM
  25. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Possibly.

    It certainly better than those combined numbers getting smaller, but (AFAIK) Test installations don't bring a penny into the BB coffers.

    Until BB provides some clarity over the conversion rate of test to commercial installations, and what the commercial installations now stand at, BB continually quoting the combined number is a fairly meaningless figure IMO. It's another of those "semi-truths" designed to give a warm feeling.
    No one would do differently
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-08-13 05:05 PM
51 123

Similar Threads

  1. Unacceptable Customer "Service" with CarID
    By donmateo in forum Rehab & Off-Topic Lounge
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-27-13, 01:02 PM
  2. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-06-13, 10:20 AM
  3. Data issue with Verizon
    By daddyrhodes in forum News & Rumors
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-04-13, 11:01 AM
  4. Getting More Attention with my Z30 than I did with Z10
    By ArsenG in forum BlackBerry Z30
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 12-04-13, 03:48 AM
  5. New look for "Inside BlackBerry" blog
    By serbanescu in forum BBRY
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-03-13, 03:55 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD