12-06-13 06:29 AM
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  1. mnc76's Avatar
    That brings up an interesting point. It took Windows Phone awhile to get traction, but it seems that the market was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and be patient simply because MS is a behemoth with money. Is the reason that no one has patience for a BB turnaround the uncertainty swirling around the company and their puny bankroll or BB10 itself, or what?
    This is almost exactly it. The other part is the fact that BlackBerry's brand reputation amongst consumers has to be among the worse I've ever seen. I think this toxicity stems from the fact that they USED to be the #1 smartphone maker but didn't update fast enough -- releasing outdated handsets in response to the iPhone and Android. This resulted in an image of "BlackBerry is out of date" and "BlackBerry isn't cool", and this image has been next to impossible for them to shake.
    12-03-13 12:40 AM
  2. IdroidBB10's Avatar
    Exactly my point, thanks for reiterating it! I totally agree, and the fact that companies copy from each other is good for us as consumers in the end. WE win when they steal each other's ideas, imo. It's funny, there was a huge 'copying' debate about Piracy recently involving BB10.2.1 and Android. It was viewed as bad overall, since we as consumers are not supposed to copy.

    And YET, when it comes to companies, copying is a-ok. When they do it, it's innovative. When we do it, it's piracy. Weird, no?
    I personally don't see anything bad to install android apps myself. If you like it, goahead. If not, don't install the leak. Why care too much when you using your own phone?
    I think the problem may be that those who were ******** on android, saying that there are no need for apps, Android is unsecured! Now like they are compiled, posting how good to install android apps! Telling others BB 10 is an android better than android? No questions why we got trolls!
    12-03-13 12:45 AM
  3. bb4life21's Avatar
    This is where the problem is. People want others to 'see the reality'... well, the reality is that everyone I have shown my Z10 to loves it, they love the os and if anyone said they didn't want a Z10 it was bc they wanted the q10.

    Call me a liar if you want, that is MY reality. The fact of the matter is that these things are all relative. Is BlackBerry doing bad... HELL YES! But there are many people that WOULD love bb10 and it's devices if a better job was done in roll out and marketing.

    The device speaks for itself, we just need to make sure it gets a chance to actually do some talking.

    The 'reality ' is that BlackBerry messed up so many things in the last few years that people don't care anymore. They could have released the exact same thing as the iPhone 5s, running iOS 9 and no one would buy it.

    Perception needs to change, hopefully these letters being released will help, if not then BlackBerry will eventually make the nay sayers right... 4years later.

    People can't buy what they don't know exists... or what nobody is selling.

    Posted via CB10
    I know we are all from different places so that might be how we look at the situation of BlackBerry different...but I have to ask where is everyone getting this bb10 isn't selling because people don't know. People know the problem is BlackBerry is NOT showing them anything. I've had a z10 since launch and there is no way I could recommend a bb10 device at this point . Only thing premium about the BlackBerry experience now a days is the pricing. They don't want to play the high spec game...or premium material game..weak ecosystem.. but some how price it the same as the s4 and new iPhone. Marketing will not help unless you have something worth marketing. Imo only thing that can save BlackBerry is coming out with a big screen with keyboard. Best of both worlds if they do it right. Why release the z30? What does it bring new to the table?? Smh
    12-03-13 12:47 AM
  4. cgk's Avatar
    The problem with the idea of 'getting traction' is that msft and partners threw money at the problem and have been growing the carrier relations - bbry doesn't have the cash and like other failed players in this market each device is on fewer and fewer carriers and less and less market support and dollars, if we even see another handset (doubtful), it is likely to decline further.
    flyingsolid and JeepBB like this.
    12-03-13 12:52 AM
  5. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    That brings up an interesting point. It took Windows Phone awhile to get traction, but it seems that the market was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and be patient simply because MS is a behemoth with money. Is the reason that no one has patience for a BB turnaround the uncertainty swirling around the company and their puny bankroll or BB10 itself, or what?
    TBH, I think other tech companies and carriers are fearful of Microsoft.

    It's not so much that they gave Windows Phone the "benefit of the doubt" so much as putting a half-hearted effort so that Microsoft wouldn't throw its weight around and intervene with the tech market.

    Remember, at the end of the day, Microsoft is still a powerful monopoly and holds a lot of influence so there's a lot of sneaky (albeit unethical) cards it can pay. Plus it has all those dollar bills lying around and no one really wants to get into a price war with Microsoft.

    Software isn't even Blackberry's playing field like it is Microsoft. What the world/Blackberry's partners saw was a relatively small company with little influence or money and no expertise in creating the product it was about to sell. They were rightfully cautious and skeptical of Blackberry.
    12-03-13 01:09 AM
  6. 12Danny123's Avatar
    TBH, I think other tech companies and carriers are fearful of Microsoft.

    It's not so much that they gave Windows Phone the "benefit of the doubt" so much as putting a half-hearted effort so that Microsoft wouldn't throw its weight around and intervene with the tech market.

    Remember, at the end of the day, Microsoft is still a powerful monopoly and holds a lot of influence so there's a lot of sneaky (albeit unethical) cards it can pay. Plus it has all those dollar bills lying around and no one really wants to get into a price war with Microsoft.

    Software isn't even Blackberry's playing field like it is Microsoft. What the world/Blackberry's partners saw was a relatively small company with little influence or money and no expertise in creating the product it was about to sell. They were rightfully cautious and skeptical of Blackberry.

    Microsoft is probably a feared company in the tech industry. In terms of handset updates and carriers availability. Microsoft will likely use the apple approach and probably be even more forceful than Apple.

    Plus no company wants to see Microsoft angry again (aka 1990s) . I'm not really surprised Android OEMS gave into Microsoft ,when MS went android licencing hunting.

    Also Often people referred Microsoft as the "sleeping giant". In 2013 Microsoft woke up from its slumber, meaner, and angrier as ever. Microsoft 2 decades ago is back to destroy companies by suing them out of business and absorbing them into MS.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by 12Danny123; 12-03-13 at 01:48 AM.
    12-03-13 01:37 AM
  7. Arun Nambiar's Avatar
    I wouldn't worry too much even if this data is perfect. The BES and BBM traction will ensure that there is a device push. And legacy BB fans are still going to slowly transition to OS10 - no data to support it but just what i see. By next year with one more device and a drop in the price of the devices we have now, the figures will reflect good news too.

    As for markets, i believe the US market is going to be an IoS and Android fight for some years to come. The real battle might be in the middle east and Asia. The sheer number of people will ensure that BB inventory is successfully unloaded - keeping the company in a good position.

    If BB can push out some ground breaking, simple, and ingenious inventions in the Z50 next year, they are looking good. As far as i can see, other OSs are just going bigger or smaller, faster or more souped up, more crowded on the screen, or adding stuff that isn't intrinsic to the phone. Need to see more things like Miracast, natural sound, carrier billing enabled on BBworld, music and video rentals from BB world. That will seriously dent the other players.
    damien kupuku and Vorkosigan like this.
    12-03-13 01:49 AM
  8. bp3dots's Avatar
    BlackBerry will soon have 10 million devices sold. In less than a year that is still a lot of adopters of the platform

    Posted via CB10
    This is another one of those things you keep repeating, but it doesn't change the reality of it.

    !0M (If they actually hit it) is a large number. But in this case, in the context of mobile phone sales, it really isn't that significant over the course of a year. There is a lot more to the picture than the piece you're looking at.
    12-03-13 02:44 AM
  9. grhd's Avatar
    I thought it was time to say goodbye to my Bold 9900 so went into my local Vodafone shop looking for Q10,Z10 or Z30.Not one was on display.Of course the usual suspects were out Samsung & I Phone but alongside was a massive display for Windows Phones.I asked one of the assistants about the lack of BB10 products and the reply was that customers were not intrested in Blackberrydue to all the rumours about the future of the company as most sign to two year deals.
    Microsoft is probably a feared company in the tech industry. In terms of handset updates and carriers availability. Microsoft will likely use the apple approach and probably be even more forceful than Apple.

    Plus no company wants to see Microsoft angry again (aka 1990s) . I'm not really surprised Android OEMS gave into Microsoft ,when MS went android licencing hunting.

    Also Often people referred Microsoft as the "sleeping giant". In 2013 Microsoft woke up from its slumber, meaner, and angrier as ever. Microsoft 2 decades ago is back to destroy companies by suing them out of business and absorbing them into MS.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    12-03-13 02:52 AM
  10. qbnkelt's Avatar
    This is another one of those things you keep repeating, but it doesn't change the reality of it.

    !0M (If they actually hit it) is a large number. But in this case, in the context of mobile phone sales, it really isn't that significant over the course of a year. There is a lot more to the picture than the piece you're looking at.
    December 20th will come soon. We will get the numbers then.
    m1a1mg, JeepBB and OMGitworks like this.
    12-03-13 03:39 AM
  11. bakron1's Avatar
    Folks, I have both a z10 and iPhone 5 here on T-Mobile USA. I have the leak installed on my z10 and I have shown the device to my friends and business colleagues alike.

    The problem is "nobody cares" about Blackberry here anymore. I don't care how care how great a product is and/or how many bells and whistles it has. When folks don't care about it anymore, your dead.

    This is reality and no matter how much positive thinking or any of the sugar coated happiness thoughts you have. Until someone at Blackberry can restore the faith in the product here, it's over.

    Android and IOS are the new titans on the block and I see folks continuing to buy Android and Apple devices more and more and even Windows based devices are showing up now.

    The last few times I have been in a Starbucks and looked around at what folks are using here and there are NO Blackberry devices, IOS and Android are the new standard now. Ok Mr Chen, what's your next move?


    Sent using the CB app from my iPhone 5
    JeepBB and OMGitworks like this.
    12-03-13 04:29 AM
  12. mjs416's Avatar
    Last I checked there was a massive billion dollar write down on Z10's that no one wants, a massive drop in revenue and a tiny market share (wow, 10 million devices out of a billion+ hey!!!).

    Pretty sad when Android sells more devices in a few days than all the BB10 devices in a whole quarter. Time for you to get your head out of the sand, your love for BB on here is just plain sad and embarrassing.
    Your logic is that in order for something to be successful it needs to sell product to billions and billions of people?

    Budwesier and Coors own 95% of the beer market - that doesn't mean their beer isn't watered down garbage. This actually proves my point with Apple. That also proves that the thousands of other breweries who fill in the remaining 5% can be successful and be profitable. There are a lot of similarities between the cell phone and craft brew industries.

    Your comments are every bit as embarrassing as the average fan boy on this site. Doom and gloom vs. Unbridled fanaticism.

    Posted via CB10
    12-03-13 04:33 AM
  13. Aditya Bhimrajka's Avatar
    Yes it had to as the company is not innovating but delivering sluggish devices with no good o's. The only point is side loading android in bar. So its all devastated.

    Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note 3. checkout www.techenthu.com.

    If you like my post hit thanks
    12-03-13 04:39 AM
  14. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    And profitability isn't coming from the massive write downs they are taking on the devices. I am not saying BBRY will scrap BB10 devices but selling too few devices at a loss isn't a long term viability solution. At some point soon they do have to either turn that segment profitable or scrap it. I do not think enterprise profits are enough to keep the handsets alive. The Kindle for free, content for $$ Amazon model isn't going to work for BBRY.
    edit : OMG, I realize I've quoted your post (weird browser !) and not answering.
    Short : I do think enterprise profits are enough to keep the handsets alive, but you know that, already

    On the stats plan, I believe it may be intersting to look at the Gartner's figures, by Os.
    While confirming a "position swap" between MS and BB, figures are somehow different.
    Also note, as for Kantar, these are consumers figures, not enterprises.

    BlackBerry sales drop near zero in US, China, Spain and Japan, research says-capture.png

    And on the hardware front while confirming competitors went ahead of BlackBerry, it's interesting to note the "fragmented market" aka "others" (androids in massive proportion) are now selling more than any vendor alone. edited : Warning this is phones+smartphones, not smatphones alone (thx howardmat)
    BlackBerry sales drop near zero in US, China, Spain and Japan, research says-capture2.png

    By the time the OS10 is mature (I personally believe only the 10.2.1.1055 leak can be considered as mature OS) they have to maintain their position with devices that are on the outdated trend for consumers at the price they were launched. But these devices are perfectly legit in enterprise environments; the durability of BB devices is one of their key feature, in a ROI perspective.

    Current discounted offers (< $200 on BB site, sold out BTW) plus enterprise bundles (device+CAL) can/could/may lower the impact of the write down and a timely opportunity to regain some decent market shares, at least see it growing Q to Q (read: next Quarter).

    It's no mystery BlackBerry has been advertised dead everywhere in the media (good-bad, that's not my point) and customers who engage for a 2yrs plan are reluctant to adopt a so called dying company.

    I'm looking forward to figures (by the way, you surely noticed BB doubled in Australia) in selected areas these Kantar stats don't reflect. To name few; Africa, Brazil, Asia. While far from trendy, these are the craziest growing markets, currently upgrading flip phones to smartphones. Good to have a pear for the thirst
    And of course, Enterprises figures, both on the HW and SW fronts ... 3 weeks to go until we "know".
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 12-03-13 at 06:13 AM.
    12-03-13 05:42 AM
  15. cgk's Avatar

    I'm looking forward to figures (by the way, you surely noticed BB doubled in Australia) in selected areas these Kantar stats don't reflect. To name few; Africa, Brazil, Asia. While far from trendy, these are the craziest growing markets, currently upgrading flip phones to smartphones. Good to have a pear for the thirst
    And of course, Enterprises figures, both on the HW and SW fronts ... 3 weeks to go until we "know".
    Forget it, BIS is the only advantage in these markets and bb10 does not have it nor does it have any phones that compete on price. Moreover you simply cannot escape the fact that bbry figures when divided by markets results in pathetic numbers - that is you remove bb7...

    Plus how can sales increase in a situation where marketing decreases and carriers decrease? Virtually impossible.
    12-03-13 05:53 AM
  16. howarmat's Avatar

    And on the hardware front while confirming competitors went ahead of BlackBerry, it's interesting to note the "fragmented market" aka "others" (androids in massive proportion) are now selling more than any vendor alone.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This isnt just smartphones though and that is why those numbers are not really a measurement of anything. Feature phones and flips etc are all part of that. If anything it shows just how many people still dont have smartphones
    12-03-13 05:56 AM
  17. George Jenkinson's Avatar
    Last I checked there was a massive billion dollar write down on Z10's that no one wants, a massive drop in revenue and a tiny market share (wow, 10 million devices out of a billion+ hey!!!).

    Pretty sad when Android sells more devices in a few days than all the BB10 devices in a whole quarter. Time for you to get your head out of the sand, your love for BB on here is just plain sad and embarrassing.
    I think it would be fairer to say that nobody wanted the Z10, Q10 and Z30 at the prices they were initially sold at. However, now that prices are halved for the Z10, the written-down stock seems to be selling quickly. I think this was one of the more significant problems with the BB10/Z10 launch.

    Also, BRRY are a business company that became popular with the public in general and their new software isn't sexy for the public. It's a bit like IBM coming out with a totally revamped item focused largely at businessmen - it won't catch on in the public arena and most folks won't 'get it'.

    BRRY are in trouble because they made mistakes and they have to regroup quickly to get back into the game. However, at the moment BRRY are the target of choice for scorn "Oh how the mighty have fallen". It happened to MS, it happened to Apple, now it's BRRY's turn...
    12-03-13 06:05 AM
  18. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Forget it, BIS is the only advantage in these markets and bb10 does not have it nor does it have any phones that compete on price. Moreover you simply cannot escape the fact that bbry figures when divided by markets results in pathetic numbers - that is you remove bb7...
    Maybe a reason there's the 9720 ? (under the $260 mark off contract here in Europe : curve-like).

    He's clearly positioned as-is in the Indian press, if I read it correctly.
    Blackberry 9720 Price in India 3 Dec 2013|Buy Blackberry 9720 Mobile Phone specification|Sulekha Mobiles
    The BlackBerry 9720 is a new mid-range smartphone [...]
    About pricing there, its around RS15,000

    Edit: and also, it would be embarrassing to believe these giant areas have only "poor" citizens and weak enterprises. Smartphone emergence is also a signal these areas are "emerging" no more ... and close to "emerged".
    spike12 likes this.
    12-03-13 06:07 AM
  19. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    This isnt just smartphones though and that is why those numbers are not really a measurement of anything. Feature phones and flips etc are all part of that. If anything it shows just how many people still dont have smartphones
    Thanks for pointing this out, was still with the first table header in mind.
    spike12 likes this.
    12-03-13 06:09 AM
  20. George Jenkinson's Avatar
    Folks, I have both a z10 and iPhone 5 here on T-Mobile USA. I have the leak installed on my z10 and I have shown the device to my friends and business colleagues alike.

    The problem is "nobody cares" about Blackberry here anymore. I don't care how care how great a product is and/or how many bells and whistles it has. When folks don't care about it anymore, your dead.

    This is reality and no matter how much positive thinking or any of the sugar coated happiness thoughts you have. Until someone at Blackberry can restore the faith in the product here, it's over.

    Android and IOS are the new titans on the block and I see folks continuing to buy Android and Apple devices more and more and even Windows based devices are showing up now.

    The last few times I have been in a Starbucks and looked around at what folks are using here and there are NO Blackberry devices, IOS and Android are the new standard now. Ok Mr Chen, what's your next move?


    Sent using the CB app from my iPhone 5
    I don't know what Mr Chen's next move would be, but if I were him, I would be aiming to make BRRY stable and profitable. I might even want to keep the BRRY name quiet so that the negativity/bad press blows over. I'd be a steady pair of hands, building momentum.

    There is no 'switch' that'll take BRRY into #1 spot in a short time. Due to the 2 yr contract cycle, it takes a number of years for a phone, or company to gain traction. If it were as simple as launching a new device, or new software, there would be a new market leader each week, month, year...
    12-03-13 06:14 AM
  21. NYC10065's Avatar
    This is exactly the case. Kantar isn't to be considered a reliable source as they void to much critical information


    Posted via CB10
    The one thing virtually every single survey confirms is BB devices are coming in well behind Android and iOS in terms of both sales and marketshare. So adding in enterprise customers or leaving them out makes zero difference to the overall statement that BB marketshare is on a downward trajectory and BB10 has not been embraced by consumers/prosumers/enterprise.
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-03-13 06:45 AM
  22. kbz1960's Avatar
    I still think the dumbest move they made was the name change to BlackBerry. They should have kept RIM and dropped bb or changed to something totally different.
    12-03-13 07:02 AM
  23. m1a1mg's Avatar
    And what you said didn't make sense. I'm not arguing the state of BlackBerry. I'm pointing out the need of some to post bad news every chance they get during the downward trend. We all know it will get worse before and if it gets better. Some folks consistently seek out articles daily to continue to hammer home the downward message. You know this though. Your avatar might fit you better than you realized.

    Posted via CB10
    I think I'm quite open to suggestion. It's you, and people like Dave, who attack the message. CGK posts a lot of stuff. A lot may be negative, but a lot of what is going on with BB is negative right now. It's not bashing if it's simply the truth. That's what I meant, and that's what I stand by.
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-03-13 07:03 AM
  24. David Murray1's Avatar
    Ouch. Still love my Bold 9900, didn't like the Z10 though.
    12-03-13 07:07 AM
  25. gkComment's Avatar
    Why are you being so incredibly negative? Companies and products go up and down in the market place. Apple computers is a case in point. I am new to BB10 and find it an excellent operating system. Back in 2004, I felt the same for Apple products...the market and analysts were incredibly negative on their products...seems like a repeat. I am comming from an Iphone 4s and moving to a Z30...the BB10 operating system better meets my needs and thats after only 10 months in the market. Yep they will struggle to gain market share, but they are updating their OS at a very fast pace and quite frankly have introduced an OS on a mobile platform that is probably the most efficient in terms of the UI that I have seen. Innovation always rests with the underdog - the choice is extinction which is a pretty good motivator.
    12-03-13 07:12 AM
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