05-19-14 03:43 PM
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  1. anon1727506's Avatar
    Blackberry is doing badly financially I agree. Again, its not dissimilar to where apple was with its desktop platform. They were considering shutting it down. Blackberry is not yet quite at that point with handsets (maybe a year or two off, if it got that bad). Apple also sold shares, including a load of non-voting shares to their competitions ceo, bill gates. They cut costs, sold everything that wasn't bolted down. They didn't get the money to develop the ipod and market it, out of thin air, they got it from honing what they were already doing.
    If it got that bad????


    It was Steve Jobs turned Apple around with the iMac (yes his buddy Bill helped him when he came back), turned it into a money maker. He then saw the demand that Napster created for music and he went and built a legal way to get music - iTunes. And not everyone wanted to burn CD's and carry have to carry a Walkman that would skip if you jogged to fast... so the iPod was born. Steve Jobs saw what consumers wanted and provided their needs.

    BlackBerry does not come close to anticipating the current needs, much less the future needs of users.... they can't even look at what made Apple and Samsung the industry leaders and copy it. Nor look at their own failures - HELLO PLAYBOOK, and try to avoid those.
    05-13-14 03:00 PM
  2. bakron1's Avatar
    If it got that bad????


    It was Steve Jobs turned Apple around with the iMac (yes his buddy Bill helped him when he came back), turned it into a money maker. He then saw the demand that Napster created for music and he went and built a legal way to get music - iTunes. And not everyone wanted to burn CD's and carry have to carry a Walkman that would skip if you jogged to fast... so the iPod was born. Steve Jobs saw what consumers wanted and provided their needs.

    BlackBerry does not come close to anticipating the current needs, much less the future needs of users.... they can't even look at what made Apple and Samsung the industry leaders and copy it. Nor look at their own failures - HELLO PLAYBOOK, and try to avoid those.
    I couldn't have said it better myself.



    Sent using the CB Forum App
    techvisor likes this.
    05-13-14 04:10 PM
  3. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Well what apple did first, was sell a load of its shares, and examine its direction. That included adding windows compatibility. Its not a dissimilar place to where blackberry is now. And that is what saved apples desktop, the ipod came well after that turn around.

    Apple is selling more ipads. There ipads are doing great. They are selling less iphones. 15% of market share versus once over 30%. Samsung had its first loss in profits. That means they are also selling less phones, though not as dramatic a drop as apples iphone. This is partly market saturation i agree, but its also the rise of the tablet/phablet, which is predicted to eclipse desktops and smart phones, and its also as you say, smaller manufacturers with cheaper products (primarily chinese android manus) (And brands as fashions to a limited degree, in apples case)

    Blackberry is doing badly financially I agree. Again, its not dissimilar to where apple was with its desktop platform. They were considering shutting it down. Blackberry is not yet quite at that point with handsets (maybe a year or two off, if it got that bad). Apple also sold shares, including a load of non-voting shares to their competitions ceo, bill gates. They cut costs, sold everything that wasn't bolted down. They didn't get the money to develop the ipod and market it, out of thin air, they got it from honing what they were already doing.

    We will see where it all leads. The z3, and the classic will probably be deciding influences, as well as changes to the bb os (hopefully they can get the apk runtime better, thats key IMO)

    Its not that I thought that we would have better OSs, like people thinking wed all have robots, its just that I seem to have better concept ideas than folks at apple or microsoft (lol! Yeah, I know how that sounds, its different running a business than just dreaming of what is viable). Google however is still shooting hoops with forward thinking, so I think maybe there is still hope for futuristic computing
    Samsung isn't selling less phones. Quite the contrary. They're selling more than they ever had before. Their revenue is consistently record breaking. All they missed was a projection of increased revenue created by analysts. Profits missed projections too. But when you break revenue and sales records yet profits don't increase, that doesn't mean they're selling less phones. All it means is that the company is actively spending money on new and future assets and acquisitions.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    techvisor and JeepBB like this.
    05-13-14 04:33 PM
  4. anon1727506's Avatar
    Samsung isn't selling less phones. Quite the contrary. They're selling more than they ever had before. Their revenue is consistently record breaking. All they missed was a projection of increased revenue created by analysts. Profits missed projections too. But when you break revenue and sales records yet profits don't increase, that doesn't mean they're selling less phones. All it means is that the company is actively spending money on new and future assets and acquisitions.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    And with what Samsung spends on marketing - $14 BILLION... not sure how they do make any profit.
    05-13-14 04:50 PM
  5. Jamie Brahm's Avatar
    Where are you getting "more phones every year"? I read it in a 2014 smart phone market analysis. Did you, by contrast just make yours up?

    Sorry to say it, but that makes no logical sense at all.

    You can probably get similar numbers from a quick google from what I quoted.

    Indeed with smart phone market pretty fully saturated at 1 in 5 people globally, 1.75 billion phones, I highly doubt any major market share holder is "selling more phones every year", samsung or apple. Device turn around is not fast enough to get even close to matching early adoption rates. Again, that just makes no logical sense that they would be selling more phones every year.

    Who are they selling to? everyone has one already - and thats about as many, per person as we will get in the market.

    You cannot beat the earlier adoption rates now that the market is saturated.

    Google for market shares, and number of phones sold per year, over the last five years - you'll see what i mean.

    Iphone has not only slumped, but its slumped relative to samsung and android. Their ipad is there current flagship - not surprising given tablets are the even more strongly adopted market, one that will outstrip phones and desktops - if I were apple, id be focusing there too, rather than on phones.

    Indeed with the emergence of more 6-7 inch mid tablets, the 5-5.5 smart phones start to seem fairly redundant, a poorer experience. I'm sure samsung and apple realize this, people are using these devices not really as phones, but as tablets. So you may as well go to the maximum size thats easily portable, and have even bigger ones at home and in the office - leave the whole pocketable phone thing to some other device.

    What you say, that they are selling "more phones every year", that would suggest that not only are apple and saumsung making smart phones, but they are also manufacturing first world consumers who want smart phones. lol!
    Last edited by Jamie Brahm; 05-13-14 at 09:25 PM.
    05-13-14 08:59 PM
  6. Jamie Brahm's Avatar
    Thats a pretty bad misrepresentation of the history of events there.

    That's not what turned the company from near dead, to living. That was fine tuning their desktop, adding windows compatibility, selling shares (and streamlining the desktop interface, this is when they added the "dock"). If we are to follow the example/metaphor completely BB is no where near that part (the ipod part)

    You might fixate on the notion of apple innovating the ipod, but thats not what _saved_ their company.

    What saved their company was the revision of their desktop os, adding greater windows compatibility, a review of what they were doing at a far more basic level - and selling shares and cost cutting.

    The actual saving part was far more roots level, than some market innovation (not that apple really innovates, it tends to borrow rather than invent).

    And that roots level is the exact phase that BB is in now (the hub, and the apk runtime are good parallels). If you look at what apple did, and what BB is currently doing, is highly comparable. BB is doing a return to roots, making sensible plays based on its passed sales, saving money, raising money, and increasing android capability and streamlining its OS.

    Its all quite familiar.

    Expecting development innovation and flair, in the phase that apple was doing the exact same sorts of things as BB is now, breaks the metaphor and probably isn't very realistic when BB is still losing money.

    They need to turn a profit on what they know and do well first, improve their current plays, exactly as apple did before it makes any sense for them to do what apple did at a much later point in the game.

    Reading your version of events, which not only glosses over, but ignores the part where apple saved itself and how, and represents that as the ipod, which came much later - your missing the part where they did root level things to increase their existing products market share and turn loss into profit. The exact place BB is trying to be right now.

    Even talking about the ipod is a distraction really, from the issue of how apple actually recovered from the brink, rather than how they later on turned their recovered and ongoing desktop profits into market domination (albiet probably fleeting, but thats the tech game)
    Last edited by Jamie Brahm; 05-14-14 at 02:28 AM.
    05-13-14 09:02 PM
  7. Jamie Brahm's Avatar
    Who are they selling this record number of phones to?

    Sure they have stolen market share from apple, but thats not at a rate that matches earlier smart phone adoption. Even the addition of device turn over to there increased market share can't really match the peak of adoption. Although I do suppose samsungs fortunes turned reasonably recently. Im still not sure it makes sense that samsungs number of phones sold, is more this year than last. Even if it was, its not sustainable, and thats logically obvious.

    I would assume their record breaking revenue, if thats so and this last quarter was a record revenue, is not from simply the handset market, and probably much more tablet focused like apple is these days (because thats the emerging market with high adoption, profit margins are higher, and phones are already saturated). Unless they were doing very poorly in the handset market a few years ago, which I suppose is _semi-plausible_ given apples loss of share. Has samsungs handset turn around been that rapid- enough to give them a temporary profit boost that they are still in?
    Last edited by Jamie Brahm; 05-14-14 at 02:21 AM.
    05-13-14 09:31 PM
  8. anon1727506's Avatar
    WOW
    WOW
    WOW

    I keep going back to....
    Completely serious. Ive been a techy for many years, Ive used a lot of platforms, and Ive seen companies come and go. I also know fashion pretty well, and I am a psych major as well as a computer networking graduate.

    BOT: The Z3 is official now, is it true it is now priced at 2,199,000 Indonesia rupiah (about $190)? I taught that at $149, BlackBerry would have a hard time competing with the devices in the $100 - $150 range based on the specs the devices in that market have.... If it has really jumped up to $190, I can't see the Z3 being able to do much to increase the number of BB10 devices sold in the coming quarters.
    05-14-14 08:33 AM
  9. Jamie Brahm's Avatar
    It does look like thats the price. Which makes it more of an affordable mid range phone, than a low range one.

    There are some bright features of the phone that i can see, based on what I have seen and specs.

    The not over the top resolution will make the 1.5gb of ram quite effective at adding to fluidity. And while they could have gone with a 1.5ghz processor, they haven't bothered with fairly redundant extra cores - the ram is more important anyway. The combination of that and the screen res (540 x 960 pixels), should not only make for a fluid enough experience, but a pretty darn long battery life, with 2500 mah in the package. Compare to th z30, for example, that has higher res, and higher cpu (and on the balance is probably less fluid due due to the spec differences), AND a lower battery mah. the z30 lasts about a day of use, so one can imagine the z3 is pretty killer on battery endurance.

    And thats a perfectly decent screen res for a visual experience too (IMO)

    The look of the device is very appealing. I saw an unboxing video, and I have to say, the shape, size, feel of the device, and fluidity of the interface, at least with casual use, made it look quite appealing. Just on a subjective level, it looks cool.

    So, my take out positives on the device, are that someone was smart in putting more emphasis on RAM than cpu, and not over pumping the screen res, but keeping it clean and tidy all the same. And big kudos to the device designers, because that thing is light, looks well designed, good hand fit, and well, looks slick. On pure slickness, if I was shallow, id rather own this device over any cheap looking android, or toy-like iphone, lol. Not that I am.

    I don't think you can really compare the spec of the low end phones that well with the z3 though.

    Of course, no mention of whether the ram is ddr3l, ddr2, ddr3, the mhz of the ram, whether its dual channel, bits etc, or whether the nand flash is "fast" (which is sort of a ultra basic ssd striping controller), comparative read write speed - because mobile phone people for probably niavety reasons pay no attention to these vital performance stats.

    Im curious about the ram, because 1.5gbs sounds like its two modules, and if so, it could be dual channel. Im of course curious about the storage, because it would be nice to think that mobile phone manufacturers are starting to at least use fast nand, like tablet manufacturers, instead of some stinky class four stuff. But its doubtful, the phone market just isnt as technically discerning as other tech markets.

    Im especially curious about the battery life. With power efficient chips and modules, and good OS optimization, that battery could have serious life in it. Which makes pretty good sense in indonesia (well elsewhere too of course). When the first reviews come in, it will be interesting to read about the experience. All depends on the implentation really, and well have to wait and see for the reality, rather than the on paper.

    So what specs to the price comparable devices in that market have? Do you think they offer similar high points to the z3?

    Do you think that people in indonesia are looking for specs in the same sort of way that markets in the US are?

    Actually I think that the z3 and classic is a pretty smart idea - there's a lot of legacy users out there, and they'd probably be the most happy to move up to bb10, because they are already BB users (and already use BB in enterprise). Essentially they will device turn over at some point, at it makes sense for BB to be encouraging that.

    And of course, if you can move the legacy device users to bb10, you shift the image. Seems like legacy users are a good go to, for selling new phones. At least if they could sell bb10 to the legacy users, they would be out of the red, and could then work from there.
    Last edited by Jamie Brahm; 05-14-14 at 09:47 AM.
    05-14-14 09:36 AM
  10. anon1727506's Avatar
    So what specs to the price comparable devices in that market have? Do you think they offer similar high points to the z3?

    Do you think that people in indonesia are looking for specs in the same sort of way that markets in the US are?
    One site I looked at Latest Mobile Phone & New Smartphone Price | Best & Top Cell Phones & Mobiles Prices | News & Reviews | Mobile57 has a number of devices in that market with their "retail" prices... lots of companies I've never heard of.

    Think the Z3 is competitive... but there are some devices that are Quad Core, or 4GB of RAM, or 312 PPI..... in the same price range.

    The one spec that does seem to be an issue the lack of dual SIMS.... seems to be a very common feature in that market and that price point.

    As some posters from the area have mentioned, this is a prepaid market where your minutes & data are only good on that carriers network. Out of network usage can be expensive.... so if you move around the country or even just around a town you need more than one "connection". It is not usual for some to own more than one device (one said he had five).
    Jamie Brahm likes this.
    05-14-14 11:04 AM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar

    Blackberry had a $3.1 billion revenue quarter, with a $84 million loss. Prior to that they made $94 million profit from $2.7 billion revenue. Before this last quarter, they were still making profits. And consider also that they are spending money on development, and have just released a phone. In development and manufacturing, the costs come before the profits. So we'd expect this last quarter to be poor - they spend money on developing the z3, and manufacturing it (and I believe they have the blackberry classic development on its way too). Indeed that explains why they had more revenue, but made no profit, or fits with it very well.
    Huh? The revenue and earnings you have here are 3 quarters behind the present time. Perhaps you are confusing BB's fiscal year with the calendar year? The last 4 quarters have seen losses, and the most recent quarter had less than $1B in revenue.

    Look at more recent quarters here: https://www.google.com/finance?q=NAS...j8PKav6QH2woFo
    Jamie Brahm likes this.
    05-16-14 07:52 PM
  12. Jamie Brahm's Avatar
    Ah, so the last four were loss, and the last quarter was the first profit in a while. I was fairly behind. Thanks for that. Be interesting to see where it goes from there.
    05-16-14 09:48 PM
  13. CHIP72's Avatar
    I suppose it's to be expected that sales of bb10 handsets is declining. The most recent one is of a previous generation. M8 and Galaxy S5 stealing all of the thunder

    Posted via CB10
    To be honest, I don't think there is much thunder that can be stolen from Blackberry at this point.
    JeepBB likes this.
    05-17-14 05:06 PM
  14. ankenn's Avatar
    We could debate the best OS for ever. But what is ignored is that the BBOS10 is rather like Apple OS in that for each company the device and the software are designed as a unit inhouse. There is as much design value in the BB OS as in the Apple OS only the Blackberry heroes are unknown whereas we all know Jobs and Ives etc. and which gives the Apply system some kind of attractive allure over the BBOS. If Blackberry could bring out into the open the design team and give them a media presence I'm certain that would give the BBOS an extra something in the market place of 'things with personality'. Android may do the business well enough but it is a real mess of menus and type faces and unintuitive settings screens. It is ugly and looks patchwork. Compare it to the slick beauty of Apple and Blackberry systems, there really is no contest, and no matter how much google tweaks it and buys extra software ANdroid will never have the 'personality possibilities of BB. This is where Blackberry should focus next. Get some marketing psychologists in on the game.
    05-19-14 03:43 PM
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