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  1. Fabiann8686's Avatar
    Hello guys,

    I read many posts here regarding people concerns about BlackBerry devices future, and I really wanted to share this story because it might clarify some points. I was very hesitant to share it but found out that I should after that confusing loop regarding the future of BlackBerry devices. Please keep in your mind that English isn’t my native language.
    I’m not going to share any names or private details, but only some important information.
    I work with KDDI company in japan and love BlackBerry phones very much. I’m using BlackBerry phone since 2005 and during my latest trip to China few weeks ago, I had a lunch meeting with two executives from TCL and one from Oppo. We spent about an hour of chat regarding some stories, and one of them was about BlackBerry, that we spent most of our time talking about. I asked many questions and the two men from TCL answered most of my questions and added great details as well. I’m going to summarize the most important points that elaborated after this lunch, which many people here might like to hear about.

    - The relation between TCL and BlackBerry isn’t good at all. TCL is having problems with BlackBerry regarding the licensing contract items and paid fees of software update. BlackBerry ended the support of some apps and will end further apps if TCL isn’t going to pay the new bill.
    - Blackberry is now seeking other companies to license its brand to, but didn’t any so far.
    - BlackBerry Mobile is a semi-independent department and now is suffering from lack of resources from TCL.
    - Two licensees ditched the deal with BlackBerry. One in India and one in Indonesia because of the very poor sales and high licensing fees.
    - TCL found itself in a difficult situation because they used to make and sell thousands of devices to those Indian and Indonesian companies, but not any longer.
    - The management in TCL decided to not renew the deal with BlackBerry after the end of its term in two years.
    - In the beginning of 2019, BlackBerry requested to rise the fee rate on every sold branded device, but TCL denied that. BlackBerry claimed software development is requiring more resources, and they needed to adjust the fee rate accordingly.
    - Number of sold devices (as I barely remember) in 2017 was: 660K/ in 2018: 320K or 350K (not exactly sure)/ in the first six month in 2019 only 87K (confident)... Majority of sold devices were in North America.
    - TCL is losing money with every BlackBerry device they sold, and the management is no longer interested in putting more money in that department.
    - The software support is two years, but Pie isn’t guarantee for Key2, because BlackBerry is still requesting a high price for this. TCL is most likely not going to pay for that if they decided not to release any new device.
    - Key3 fate isn’t confirmed yet. People in BlackBerry mobile want to release this device and it is going to be very similar to the Key2 (prototype exist), but the management in TCL didn’t give it the green light yet.
    - If they approve the release of Key3, expect it to be in limited quantity and with a higher price tag and should be the last device during the agreement period. Pie will come to Key2 as well.
    - TCL management asked BlackBerry to license the keyboard and design only because they intended to release it as Palm Pre 3 instead of Key3 and can sell it for a price tag around $350 without Blackberry brand and software, but BlackBerry hasn’t approved that.
    - TCL was developing a very unique device with a hidden slide keyboard inside the phone body but failed to perfect the prototype. They asked for BlackBerry expertise to master it, but BlackBerry told them that the team who developed this keyboard is no longer working with the company and requested a huge amount of money to achieve the prototype with their current team. (not sure which team the speaker meant, and I didn’t want to insist on get clarification for every answer). He said that we wish to release such a unique device with a premium price tag as out last one, but its future doesn’t look bright enough and might be cancelled.
    - BlackBerry Mobile size is now very smaller compared to two years ago. All employees in Germany, France, and UK are laid off. US team is very tiny with only 6 employees who are working with Verizon Enterprise, and they are facing big difficulties in the very scarce devices supply to Verizon.
    - TCL used the remaining repair phone parts to make few units of the RED Key2, so expect almost no spare parts of Key2 in the future.
    - They no longer ship any devices to North America due to the high cost of operation and keep selling few new devices in China and Europe until a new management decision to be made about the future of BlackBerry Mobile.

    I hope I was able to clarify some complicated points recently, and I don’t guaranty that this information is all correct, but this is what I heard and got answers for.
    08-12-19 04:13 AM
  2. Ben xfg's Avatar
    Wow. Thanks for this. @conite @RK_BB

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Ben xfg; 08-12-19 at 07:12 AM.
    RK_BB likes this.
    08-12-19 06:47 AM
  3. CrackPriv's Avatar
    Hello guys,

    I read many posts here regarding people concerns about BlackBerry devices future, and I really wanted to share this story because it might clarify some points. I was very hesitant to share it but found out that I should after that confusing loop regarding the future of BlackBerry devices. Please keep in your mind that English isn’t my native language.
    I’m not going to share any names or private details, but only some important information.
    I work with KDDI company in japan and love BlackBerry phones very much. I’m using BlackBerry phone since 2005 and during my latest trip to China few weeks ago, I had a lunch meeting with two executives from TCL and one from Oppo. We spent about an hour of chat regarding some stories, and one of them was about BlackBerry, that we spent most of our time talking about. I asked many questions and the two men from TCL answered most of my questions and added great details as well. I’m going to summarize the most important points that elaborated after this lunch, which many people here might like to hear about.

    -The relation between TCL and BlackBerry isn’t good at all. TCL is having problems with BlackBerry regarding the licensing contract items and paid fees of software update. BlackBerry ended the support of some apps and will end further apps if TCL isn’t going to pay the new bill.
    -Blackberry is now seeking other companies to license its brand to, but didn’t any so far.
    -BlackBerry Mobile is a semi-independent department and now is suffering from lack of resources from TCL.
    -Two licensees ditched the deal with BlackBerry. One in India and one in Indonesia because of the very poor sales and high licensing fees.
    -TCL found itself in a difficult situation because they used to make and sell thousands of devices to those Indian and Indonesian companies, but not any longer.
    -The management in TCL decided to not renew the deal with BlackBerry after the end of its term in two years.
    -In the beginning of 2019, BlackBerry requested to rise the fee rate on every sold branded device, but TCL denied that. BlackBerry claimed software development is requiring more resources, and they needed to adjust the fee rate accordingly.
    -Number of sold devices (as I barely remember) in 2017 was: 660K/ in 2018: 320K or 350K (not exactly sure)/ in the first six month in 2019 only 87K (confident)... Majority of sold devices were in North America.
    -TCL is losing money with every BlackBerry device they sold, and the management is no longer interested in putting more money in that department.
    -The software support is two years, but Pie isn’t guarantee for Key2, because BlackBerry is still requesting a high price for this. TCL is most likely not going to pay for that if they decided not to release any new device.
    -Key3 fate isn’t confirmed yet. People in BlackBerry mobile want to release this device and it is going to be very similar to the Key2 (prototype exist), but the management in TCL didn’t give it the green light yet.
    -If they approve the release of Key3, expect it to be in limited quantity and with a higher price tag and should be the last device during the agreement period. Pie will come to Key2 as well.
    -TCL management asked BlackBerry to license the keyboard and design only because they intended to release it as Palm Pre 3 instead of Key3 and can sell it for a price tag around $350 without Blackberry brand and software, but BlackBerry hasn’t approved that.
    -TCL was developing a very unique device with a hidden slide keyboard inside the phone body but failed to perfect the prototype. They asked for BlackBerry expertise to master it, but BlackBerry told them that the team who developed this keyboard is no longer working with the company and requested a huge amount of money to achieve the prototype with their current team. (not sure which team the speaker meant, and I didn’t want to insist on get clarification for every answer). He said that we wish to release such a unique device with a premium price tag as out last one, but its future doesn’t look bright enough and might be cancelled.
    -BlackBerry Mobile size is now very smaller compared to two years ago. All employees in Germany, France, and UK are laid off. US team is very tiny with only 6 employees who are working with Verizon Enterprise, and they are facing big difficulties in the very scarce devices supply to Verizon.
    -TCL used the remaining repair phone parts to make few units of the RED Key2, so expect almost no spare parts of Key2 in the future.
    -They no longer ship any devices to North America due to the high cost of operation and keep selling few new devices in China and Europe until a new management decision to be made about the future of BlackBerry Mobile.

    I hope I was able to clarify some complicated points recently, and I don’t guaranty that this information is all correct, but this is what I heard and got answers for.
    Thank you !
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    08-12-19 06:49 AM
  4. moosbb's Avatar
    Merci for the share ! Much appreciated!
    08-12-19 07:08 AM
  5. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    Looks like a "random blogger" had provided some of this information weeks earlier.
    08-12-19 07:17 AM
  6. thurask's Avatar
    Disappointed but not surprised.
    08-12-19 07:20 AM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I’ve speculated about the Palm strategy from my simple opinions and simple business experience. It makes sense for a variety of reasons.

    This information seems credible but keep in mind like everything we do here, it’s a bunch of words and opinions unless it can be truly verified. No offense to OP since it could be difficult to verify due to privacy and other issues.

    Personally though, seems very reasonable..
    skinnymike1 likes this.
    08-12-19 07:33 AM
  8. Winnertrack's Avatar
    It sounds possible even without evidence. It is sad that BB is not more interested to keep the brand alive, otherwise we have the choose of two upcoming pkb devices (Titan and Pro1).
    Let´s see what is coming...
    And Paulelmar18, yes you told us already and especially one guy was very hard to say that you are not right
    CrackPriv and ThomasWillNot like this.
    08-12-19 07:56 AM
  9. the_boon's Avatar
    The smoke starts to clear up...

    Two points got my attention:

    -TCL management asked BlackBerry to license the keyboard and design only because they intended to release it as Palm Pre 3 instead of Key3 and can sell it for a price tag around $350 without Blackberry brand and software, but BlackBerry hasn’t approved that.

    This would be very interesting indeed.

    -TCL used the remaining repair phone parts to make few units of the RED Key2, so expect almost no spare parts of Key2 in the future.

    Again, I have a hard time believing that because the alternate characters on the Red Edition's PKB didn't paint themselves white, and the spacebar didn't magically become more firm.

    Well, it still looks like we might be getting a KEY3 at this point but then what comes after?

    TCL will make new Palm devices with PKB without using any of BB's patents? They have gained some knowledge though while making the KEY devices so they can put that to good use. Just don't make it blatant like Unihertz.
    skinnymike1 and ThomasWillNot like this.
    08-12-19 07:59 AM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The smoke starts to clear up...

    Two points got my attention:

    -TCL management asked BlackBerry to license the keyboard and design only because they intended to release it as Palm Pre 3 instead of Key3 and can sell it for a price tag around $350 without Blackberry brand and software, but BlackBerry hasn’t approved that.

    This would be very interesting indeed.

    -TCL used the remaining repair phone parts to make few units of the RED Key2, so expect almost no spare parts of Key2 in the future.

    Again, I have a hard time believing that because the alternate characters on the Red Edition's PKB didn't paint themselves white, and the spacebar didn't magically become more firm.

    Well, it still looks like we might be getting a KEY3 at this point but then what comes after?

    TCL will make new Palm devices with PKB without using any of BB's patents? They have gained some knowledge though while making the KEY devices so they can put that to good use. Just don't make it blatant like Unihertz.
    Doesn’t matter any what they’ve learned. Either pay for patent features or don’t incorporate. Although some pointed out that Palm brand purchase didn’t include any IP, there’s plenty of PKB non patented and publicly owned technologies available. Palm Treo, Centro and Pre devices weren’t bad for their period in time.
    skinnymike1 likes this.
    08-12-19 08:05 AM
  11. the_boon's Avatar
    Doesn’t matter any what they’ve learned. Either pay for patent features or don’t incorporate. Although some pointed out that Palm brand purchase didn’t include any IP, there’s plenty of PKB non patented and publicly owned technologies available. Palm Treo, Centro and Pre devices weren’t bad for their period in time.
    I think it's blatantly copying the frets design and capacitive touch that gets under BB ltd's skin.

    I doubt simply having sculpted keys and quality clickiness would get them in trouble, and those two are probably the most important basics for a PKB. Well, that, and overall form factor.

    Besides, no other BB prior to the KEYs has had this particular key shape, so not sure what TCL would be infringing should they port that over to a Palm.
    skinnymike1 and ThomasWillNot like this.
    08-12-19 08:11 AM
  12. conite's Avatar
    Cross our fingers for this part:

    "Key3 fate isn’t confirmed yet. People in BlackBerry mobile want to release this device and it is going to be very similar to the Key2 (prototype exist), but the management in TCL didn’t give it the green light yet.

    -If they approve the release of Key3, expect it to be in limited quantity and with a higher price tag and should be the last device during the agreement period. Pie will come to Key2 as well. "

    I'm not shocked that Pie on the KEY² is contingent on the eventual release of the KEY³.

    Nor am I shocked that BlackBerry Limited will only do what they are paid to do. Sucks for TCL (and us), but that's what they signed up for.
    Last edited by conite; 08-12-19 at 08:43 AM.
    skinnymike1 and ThomasWillNot like this.
    08-12-19 08:27 AM
  13. Ben xfg's Avatar
    -TCL used the remaining repair phone parts to make few units of the RED Key2, so expect almost no spare parts of Key2 in the future.

    Again, I have a hard time believing that because the alternate characters on the Red Edition's PKB didn't paint themselves white, and the spacebar didn't magically become more firm.
    That, and the appearance of a few black Key2's with recent build date...

    Posted via CB10
    the_boon and Bbnivende like this.
    08-12-19 08:28 AM
  14. DallinCrump's Avatar
    None of this comes as a shock to me. The explanations fit the evidence too well to be made up. It's sad, from the perspective of a BlackBerry fan, but I still have hope that either TCL will decide to renew its investment in licensing the BlackBerry brand and tech, or another company will decide to give it a try. Microsoft, perhaps? They've developed a good partnership with Samsung to integrate Microsoft products and services on Samsung devices. Maybe they're looking to expand that strategy?
    08-12-19 08:44 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    None of this comes as a shock to me. The explanations fit the evidence too well to be made up. It's sad, from the perspective of a BlackBerry fan, but I still have hope that either TCL will decide to renew its investment in licensing the BlackBerry brand and tech, or another company will decide to give it a try. Microsoft, perhaps? They've developed a good partnership with Samsung to integrate Microsoft products and services on Samsung devices. Maybe they're looking to expand that strategy?
    I'd be happy with a TCL/Alcatel product running Android One and a BlackBerry keyboard. Nokia or Motorola would be great too.

    No branding, no BlackBerry Android.
    Gene Fells likes this.
    08-12-19 09:03 AM
  16. Winnertrack's Avatar
    100% agreed!
    08-12-19 09:06 AM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    None of this comes as a shock to me. The explanations fit the evidence too well to be made up. It's sad, from the perspective of a BlackBerry fan, but I still have hope that either TCL will decide to renew its investment in licensing the BlackBerry brand and tech, or another company will decide to give it a try. Microsoft, perhaps? They've developed a good partnership with Samsung to integrate Microsoft products and services on Samsung devices. Maybe they're looking to expand that strategy?
    What would Microsoft or Samsung need from BlackBerry?

    What in these number would cause anyone to want to pick up the BlackBerry brand?

    Bottom line what here would show BlackBerry would considered someone new... I expect they are mothballing Android Secure development and the outside use of the Brand. They'd be open to licencing IP...
    08-12-19 09:18 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Looks like a "random blogger" had provided some of this information weeks earlier.
    Your source also said "a KEY³ with a keyboard should come".

    So, everything with a grain of salt of course.

    If 75% of this, or your source's, information is absolutely correct, the trouble is in determining which 75% it is.

    I don't think any of us thought the situation was all rainbows.

    My main objection to your report was the fact that TCL's lack of response to it seemed to convince you that it must be entirely accurate. I think accuracy and a response from TCL are mutually exclusive and non-informative in and of itself.
    Last edited by conite; 08-12-19 at 10:03 AM.
    08-12-19 09:23 AM
  19. the_boon's Avatar

    What in these number would cause anyone to want to pick up the BlackBerry brand?
    Exactly...

    The brand name is toxic, the BBAndroid is irrelevant, but the PKB itself may still have a chance
    08-12-19 09:23 AM
  20. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    Your source also said "a KEY³ with a keyboard should come".

    So, everything with a grain of salt of course.

    If 75% of this, or your source's, information is absolutely correct, the trouble is in determining which 75% it is.

    I don't think any of us thought the situation was all rainbows.

    My main objection to your report was the fact that TCL's lack of response to it seemed to convince you that it must be entirely accurate. I think accuracy and a lack of response from TCL are mutually exclusive and non-informative in and of itself.
    And I stand by that statement as well. It does not contradict the statement of the OP. Wait and see.
    08-12-19 09:32 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    And I stand by that statement as well. It does not contradict the statement of the OP. Wait and see.
    At the very least, it seems the decision hasn't been made yet. It would appear that a lot of things have to be worked out with BlackBerry Limited first - in TCL's favour no less.
    Last edited by conite; 08-12-19 at 10:56 AM.
    08-12-19 09:42 AM
  22. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Why is it that no one is shocked over 87k in sales over the last six months and 350 K over the previous year.

    Were not CB regulars thinking of 1,000,000 per year?

    It seems to me that BlackBerry Ltd should give up on their OS and just licence keyboard tech and possibly the root of trust hardening ( the process they have originating from a cubicle in Waterloo).

    Mind you at 87 K sales in 2019, TCL could increase their profits since they lose on each device.


    The proposed Palm pre 3 at $350 seems to be a slightly upgraded LE given the price.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 08-12-19 at 11:45 AM.
    08-12-19 11:29 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Why is it that no one is shocked over 87k in sales over the last six months and 350 K over the previous year.
    Numbers in particular are hard to verify, and have to be taken with a bucket of salt.
    08-12-19 11:51 AM
  24. falbo's Avatar
    Hello guys,

    I read many posts here regarding people concerns about BlackBerry devices future, and I really wanted to share this story because it might clarify some points. I was very hesitant to share it but found out that I should after that confusing loop regarding the future of BlackBerry devices. Please keep in your mind that English isn’t my native language.
    I’m not going to share any names or private details, but only some important information.
    I work with KDDI company in japan and love BlackBerry phones very much. I’m using BlackBerry phone since 2005 and during my latest trip to China few weeks ago, I had a lunch meeting with two executives from TCL and one from Oppo. We spent about an hour of chat regarding some stories, and one of them was about BlackBerry, that we spent most of our time talking about. I asked many questions and the two men from TCL answered most of my questions and added great details as well. I’m going to summarize the most important points that elaborated after this lunch, which many people here might like to hear about.

    -The relation between TCL and BlackBerry isn’t good at all. TCL is having problems with BlackBerry regarding the licensing contract items and paid fees of software update. BlackBerry ended the support of some apps and will end further apps if TCL isn’t going to pay the new bill.
    -Blackberry is now seeking other companies to license its brand to, but didn’t any so far.
    -BlackBerry Mobile is a semi-independent department and now is suffering from lack of resources from TCL.
    -Two licensees ditched the deal with BlackBerry. One in India and one in Indonesia because of the very poor sales and high licensing fees.
    -TCL found itself in a difficult situation because they used to make and sell thousands of devices to those Indian and Indonesian companies, but not any longer.
    -The management in TCL decided to not renew the deal with BlackBerry after the end of its term in two years.
    -In the beginning of 2019, BlackBerry requested to rise the fee rate on every sold branded device, but TCL denied that. BlackBerry claimed software development is requiring more resources, and they needed to adjust the fee rate accordingly.
    -Number of sold devices (as I barely remember) in 2017 was: 660K/ in 2018: 320K or 350K (not exactly sure)/ in the first six month in 2019 only 87K (confident)... Majority of sold devices were in North America.
    -TCL is losing money with every BlackBerry device they sold, and the management is no longer interested in putting more money in that department.
    -The software support is two years, but Pie isn’t guarantee for Key2, because BlackBerry is still requesting a high price for this. TCL is most likely not going to pay for that if they decided not to release any new device.
    -Key3 fate isn’t confirmed yet. People in BlackBerry mobile want to release this device and it is going to be very similar to the Key2 (prototype exist), but the management in TCL didn’t give it the green light yet.
    -If they approve the release of Key3, expect it to be in limited quantity and with a higher price tag and should be the last device during the agreement period. Pie will come to Key2 as well.
    -TCL management asked BlackBerry to license the keyboard and design only because they intended to release it as Palm Pre 3 instead of Key3 and can sell it for a price tag around $350 without Blackberry brand and software, but BlackBerry hasn’t approved that.
    -TCL was developing a very unique device with a hidden slide keyboard inside the phone body but failed to perfect the prototype. They asked for BlackBerry expertise to master it, but BlackBerry told them that the team who developed this keyboard is no longer working with the company and requested a huge amount of money to achieve the prototype with their current team. (not sure which team the speaker meant, and I didn’t want to insist on get clarification for every answer). He said that we wish to release such a unique device with a premium price tag as out last one, but its future doesn’t look bright enough and might be cancelled.
    -BlackBerry Mobile size is now very smaller compared to two years ago. All employees in Germany, France, and UK are laid off. US team is very tiny with only 6 employees who are working with Verizon Enterprise, and they are facing big difficulties in the very scarce devices supply to Verizon.
    -TCL used the remaining repair phone parts to make few units of the RED Key2, so expect almost no spare parts of Key2 in the future.
    -They no longer ship any devices to North America due to the high cost of operation and keep selling few new devices in China and Europe until a new management decision to be made about the future of BlackBerry Mobile.

    I hope I was able to clarify some complicated points recently, and I don’t guaranty that this information is all correct, but this is what I heard and got answers for.
    I'm curious, you state that you have been using blackberry phones from 2005 but have only joined crackberry today according to your profile, were have you been? Lol.
    08-12-19 12:14 PM
  25. RK_BB's Avatar
    I'm curious, you state that you have been using blackberry phones from 2005 but have only joined crackberry today according to your profile, were have you been? Lol.
    I met BlackBerry owners that don't even know what CrackBerry is...
    08-12-19 12:47 PM
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