07-07-15 06:23 AM
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  1. The Big Picture's Avatar
    The screen displaying the OS on that not yet announced new slider at MWC 2015 definitely looks different.

    The phone, search and camera icons are more distanced from the screen.

    The slider looks to me to be either a different BB10 layout or a new BB10/android OS.

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 04:38 PM
  2. birdman_38's Avatar
    I challenge JeepBB, birdman_38, scalemaster34 and the other lead candidates for the "everything is awful in every way, all the time, under every circumstance" club presidency to actually see if there's a single solitary thing they like.
    There's lots of things I like. I'm using a Passport as my daily driver and enjoy the wide view. I appreciate the features BlackBerry has put into their software updates to make BB10 competitive.

    Just because I believe BlackBerry should explore a switch to Android to keep their handset division sustainable plus perhaps double their unit sales, it doesn't mean I think what you inferred. But it's not about me.
    Elite1 and RubberChicken76 like this.
    03-05-15 05:09 PM
  3. Bilaal's Avatar
    This may sound like a really good question or a really bad one, but can BlackBerry afford to transition to Android? Didn't they reject Android in the first place because it would have cost them $6 billion or so? After all the money poured into BB10, I can agree with Superfly here that BB10 is attractive to an enterprise for work purposes but the consumer isn't bothered about it. The OS is top notch for the most part, but I'm sure John Chen knows they can only push the "productive" image for these devices for so long. Eventually, people will get bored and want normal, consumer features like apps for starters, then they will look elsewhere, even then, I just think they should (and they probably can) heavily improve on the run time with the power of QNX and let the OS mature along with this 'Chen era' BlackBerry. Let's not forget, his work is still undergoing.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    03-05-15 05:18 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Cool. You know, that's the first time I've ever see you say you actually like anything. Made me wonder why you even came here.

    Next up - I challenge JeepBB, birdman_38, scalemaster34 and the other lead candidates for the "everything is awful in every way, all the time, under every circumstance" club presidency to actually see if there's a single solitary thing they like.
    Fallacy: Ad Hominem

    Description of Ad Hominem

    Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

    An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, their circumstances, or their actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

    Person A makes claim X.
    Person B makes an attack on person A.
    Therefore A's claim is false.

    The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

    Example of Ad Hominem

    Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
    Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
    Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
    Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."

    ---

    Instead of worrying about me or my motivations, how about refuting my actual positions and arguments with facts?
    03-05-15 05:21 PM
  5. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    There's lots of things I like. I'm using a Passport as my daily driver and enjoy the wide view. I appreciate the features BlackBerry has put into their software updates to make BB10 competitive.

    Just because I believe BlackBerry should explore a switch to Android to keep their handset division sustainable plus perhaps double their unit sales, it doesn't mean I think what you inferred. But it's not about me.
    Two arguments: 1) One of BB's biggest differentiators now is their own operating system. They have some opportunity to appeal to users who don't want to submit to Google and Apple. 2) Chen has said repeatedly that he wants BlackBerry to be a full security solution, and that means everything from the corporate network all the way through to the user's device, and using someone else's OS compromises that.

    The only way I see this working is if they produce phones under a different brand. Otherwise it could prove confusing for customers.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    03-05-15 05:21 PM
  6. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    There's lots of things I like. I'm using a Passport as my daily driver and enjoy the wide view. I appreciate the features BlackBerry has put into their software updates to make BB10 competitive.
    Excellent! Thank you!

    You're up, Scalemaster34
    03-05-15 05:31 PM
  7. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Instead of worrying about me or my motivations, how about refuting my actual positions and arguments with facts?
    I actually agree with a lot of your points.

    I just found it weird that the only reason you ever seemed to show up on a site called CrackBerry.com was to complain, discredit, pick apart or otherwise talk about the terribleness of everything.

    Seemed like a lot of effort (and frankly, a more sophisticated level of trollism) for someone who liked BlackBerry so little to spend so much time here talking about how everything BlackBerry did was terrible in every way.
    LuvULongTime likes this.
    03-05-15 05:33 PM
  8. stuart445's Avatar
    They could only do this if they removed the Android Runtime from BB10 - the OHA prevents members from making phones with forks of Android (and that's what BB10 with the Android Runtime is considered by the OHA), and you don't get Google Play and Google Services Framework without being an OHA member.

    Think enterprise would buy BB10 phones with no Android Runtime, and thus, no access to apps?
    I think you're right I was just thinking of a way that Blackberry could keep BB10 as it's a good OS but it's pretty much a dead OS in the consumer market due to a bad birth due to mismanagement. The saying "A good team can make a bad product successful but a bad team cannot make a good product successful" is so true.

    These days the only way Blackberry can sell in decent numbers is if they have Android on it. It's a vicious circle the App developers won't create apps for BB10 due to the small amount of people that use it and people won't buy BB10 devices because the lack of Apps, it's and impossible cycle to get out of. Blackberry moving to Android is the only sensible thing left sadly.
    03-05-15 05:55 PM
  9. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I actually agree with a lot of your points.

    I just found it weird that the only reason you ever seemed to show up on a site called CrackBerry.com was to complain, discredit, pick apart or otherwise talk about the terribleness of everything.

    Seemed like a lot of effort (and frankly, a more sophisticated level of trollism) for someone who liked BlackBerry so little to spend so much time here talking about how everything BlackBerry did was terrible in every way.
    I don't know about Troy, but brainstorming about these things kinda relaxes me
    03-05-15 05:55 PM
  10. birdman_38's Avatar
    Two arguments: 1) One of BB's biggest differentiators now is their own operating system. They have some opportunity to appeal to users who don't want to submit to Google and Apple. 2) Chen has said repeatedly that he wants BlackBerry to be a full security solution, and that means everything from the corporate network all the way through to the user's device, and using someone else's OS compromises that.
    1) Enterprise customers don't want differentiation. They will support whatever solution meets their needs, including having easy access to the applications they require...often including their own company's titles that are not available on BlackBerry World.
    2) Security is a hard sell considering my previous point coupled with the fact BlackBerry is working to make other platforms more secure in enterprise. They're actually making their own handhelds less appealing in the process.
    Troy Tiscareno and sati01 like this.
    03-05-15 05:56 PM
  11. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    1) Enterprise customers don't want differentiation. They will support whatever solution meets their needs, including having easy access to the applications they require...often including their own company's titles that are not available on BlackBerry World.
    2) Security is a hard sell considering my previous point coupled with the fact BlackBerry is working to make other platforms more secure in enterprise. They're actually making their own handhelds less appealing in the process.
    1)
    That's my company right here.
    We have custom iOS/Android apps and use some standard business apps you won't find on BBW.

    2)
    An MDM and some apps make every smartphone secure enough for most corporate applications.
    BlackBerry does have an edge in terms of security, but the "good enough" model seems to have won.
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 03-05-15 at 06:16 PM.
    03-05-15 06:00 PM
  12. fab Z10's Avatar
    If this is true hate to say it but there will be no reason at all to keep using BlackBerry products .... and I had to start using iPhone ... don't see android as a real alternative. Will miss the hub, the gestures, blend, security, privacy and the whole BB experience. And obviously if I turn apple I won't waste any penny in these apps in case being offered for ios. The end of BlackBerry for me. Really sad.

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 06:09 PM
  13. Glenn Biddle's Avatar
    Fallacy: Ad Hominem

    Description of Ad Hominem

    Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

    An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, their circumstances, or their actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

    Person A makes claim X.
    Person B makes an attack on person A.
    Therefore A's claim is false.

    The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

    Example of Ad Hominem

    Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
    Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
    Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
    Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."

    ---

    Instead of worrying about me or my motivations, how about refuting my actual positions and arguments with facts?
    I already thought that you were a bit of a Cliff Claven but your really bringing it home here.

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 06:27 PM
  14. ponpiri's Avatar
    BlackDroid or GoogleBerry?
    Or Droid10? GoogleBerry is too close to dungberry lol
    03-05-15 07:04 PM
  15. trsbbs's Avatar
    It's odd that John Chen is all about discussing BlackBerry's commitment to multi-platform software and new hardware but doesn't mention BB10.
    He never does talk about BB10.

    BlackBerry hates America!
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    03-05-15 07:13 PM
  16. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    He never does talk about BB10.

    BlackBerry hates America!
    Actually, I don't want Scalemaster to speak next. I'd rather hear from you if there's a single solitary thing you like about BlackBerry. Sentiment GX4 is also nominated since he's another candidate for the "Everything is awful" presidency.
    03-05-15 07:42 PM
  17. birdman_38's Avatar
    Guys, let's keep the personal attacks to a minimum. I respect all of you and enjoy your perspective.
    Superfly_FR and southlander like this.
    03-05-15 08:36 PM
  18. The Big Picture's Avatar
    Two arguments: 1) One of BB's biggest differentiators now is their own operating system. They have some opportunity to appeal to users who don't want to submit to Google and Apple. 2) Chen has said repeatedly that he wants BlackBerry to be a full security solution, and that means everything from the corporate network all the way through to the user's device, and using someone else's OS compromises that.

    The only way I see this working is if they produce phones under a different brand. Otherwise it could prove confusing for customers.
    Agreed. It will be very confusing for end users. This will have a negative effect on sales.

    Anyone who buys BlackBerry now is expecting best in class security and a device and mdm which is approved by NATO, DoD and the G12.

    Having android in the mix is just going to confuse market perception

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 08:40 PM
  19. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Fallacy: Ad Hominem

    Description of Ad Hominem

    Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

    An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, their circumstances, or their actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

    Person A makes claim X.
    Person B makes an attack on person A.
    Therefore A's claim is false.

    The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

    Example of Ad Hominem

    Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
    Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
    Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
    Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."

    ---

    Instead of worrying about me or my motivations, how about refuting my actual positions and arguments with facts?
    Troy, Troy, YOU DON'T GET IT! No one is attacking you or the point you are making. All of them are valid and make great sense. Frankly, there are few BlackBerry fans here that disagree with most of what you say. We are all aware of the grim market realities.

    The issue is very simple. We are here because we are BlackBerry fans that own and use BlackBerry devices. You absolutely detest BlackBerry, have never owned one, yet you practically live on this forum. Why?????

    One day, I hope someone just like you comes into a forum you love, and absolutely kills it for you like you are doing for many of us. Then maybe you will FINALLY understand.

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 09:01 PM
  20. medic22003's Avatar
    All I will say is if they switch to android I'll get a windows phone or go back to a dumb one. I detest Google and android. I've said it before, that is why I went to bb10. I have about 6 android apps on my phone and all but 2 ask for almost no access to anything on my phone. One that does is my bank app and the other is my ins app. I'm going to delete them right now.

    Posted via CB10
    Plummerdc88 likes this.
    03-05-15 09:05 PM
  21. FSeverino's Avatar
    i really dislike android. I love some apps, especially the customization on reading apps... but the OS as a whole seems so clunky to me.
    03-05-15 10:05 PM
  22. Plummerdc88's Avatar
    I understand that this thread is rumor and speculation. And i agree with many saying it is worth Blackberry to investigate. And i can see how this may actual be a smart move for them. But one of the reasons that i use a Blackberry not an android device. Is due to level of privacy invasion that we see from Google services. Blackberry in their privacy policy maps out very clearly how they use your data. As i have said many times from a policy stand point they display a superior level of responsibility and desire in protecting your user data.

    With android, this goes out the window. I like android as an OS. in some iterations it offers very good user experience ( not so good in others). But the high level of Google integration has turned me off from Android completely.

    If Blackberry switches to Android. To keep me as a customer, it would have to be a very different version of android then what comes to mind.

    Either way, i hope they make whatever decision pays off best for them as a company
    03-05-15 10:55 PM
  23. sati01's Avatar
    I changed my mind, I think the rumor is not correct, BlackBerry is not switching to Android. It doesn't make sense.
    In the consumer market BlackBerry is dead and few people would buy an Android phone branded BlackBerry.
    In the enterprise market It doesn't make sense to pre-load BlackBerry enterprise apps and services because that's done automatically by BES or other EMM software in any Android phone, no matter the brand.
    So, BlackBerry can't add value on top of Android.

    I think BlackBerry will sell a phone that runs both BB10 and Google's Android, with access to play store, using the QNX hypervisor.
    This is a niche product for organizations with high security requirements that are currently forcing their users to carry two phones. Containerization is not secure enough for these companies because it depends on the security of the host operating system. Some vulnerabilities of the host OS could make vulnerable the container or the EMM rules. (?)
    With the hypervisor security depends exclusively on BlackBerry's software end to end, the hypervisor, BB10 and BES. With the hypervisor they can also install a pristine copy of Google's Android that pass the compatibility test and can run play store and Google's services. Both operating systems run totally isolated, in the same way that my VMs and your VMs run isolated in the cloud even if they happen to be deployed in the same physical machine.

    This is niche because the user experience suffers. The users is exposed to a phone that operates in disparate ways depending on the mode. For example, for work the gestures of BB10, for personal the Android home and back buttons.
    Other problem is the performance hit of the hypervisor, but top of the line hardware with big batteries should be enough to support virtualization.

    Another benefit of this solution is the ability to deactivate the Android OS when executing critical activities on the work side. With two separate phones the consumer phone still can be hacked and the GPS/microphone/camera of that phone can be activated despite the strong security of the work phone. With the hypervisor that can be solved in both directions.

    So, for less security requirements the current workspace solution is better on an iPhone or Android phone, it's more productive and less confusing.
    For higher security requirements the hypervisor is better, more secure which is the priority, but less productive because of the inconsistent user experience, and it's a little harder to switch between the modes.
    Last edited by sati01; 03-05-15 at 11:52 PM.
    Superfly_FR and Munx like this.
    03-05-15 11:37 PM
  24. The Big Picture's Avatar
    I changed my mind, I think the rumor is not correct, BlackBerry is not switching to Android. It doesn't make sense.
    In the consumer market BlackBerry is dead and few people would buy an Android phone branded BlackBerry.
    In the enterprise market It doesn't make sense to pre-load BlackBerry enterprise apps and services because that's done automatically by BES or other EMM software in any Android phone, no matter the brand.
    So, BlackBerry can't add value on top of Android.

    I think BlackBerry will sell a phone that runs both BB10 and Google's Android, with access to play store, using the QNX hypervisor.
    This is a niche product for organizations with high security requirements that are currently forcing their users to carry two phones. Containerization is not secure enough for these companies because it depends on the security of the host operating system. Some vulnerabilities of the host OS could make vulnerable the container or the EMM rules. (?)
    With the hypervisor security depends exclusively on BlackBerry's software end to end, the hypervisor, BB10 and BES. With the hypervisor they can also install a pristine copy of Google's Android that pass the compatibility test and can run play store and Google's services. Both operating systems run totally isolated, in the same way that my VMs and your VMs run isolated in the cloud even if they happen to be deployed in the same physical machine.

    This is niche because the user experience suffers. The users is exposed to a phone that operates in disparate ways depending on the mode. For example, for work the gestures of BB10, for personal the Android home and back buttons.
    Other problem is the performance hit of the hypervisor, but top of the line hardware with big batteries should be enough to support virtualization.

    Another benefit of this solution is the ability to deactivate the Android OS when executing critical activities on the work side. With two separate phones the consumer phone still can be hacked and the GPS/microphone/camera of that phone can be activated despite the strong security of the work phone. With the hypervisor that can be solved in both directions.

    So, for less security requirements the current workspace solution is better on an iPhone or Android phone, it's more productive and less confusing.
    For higher security requirements the hypervisor is better, more secure which is the priority, but less productive because of the inconsistent user experience, and it's a little harder to switch between the modes.
    Interesting idea and one that would make sense if only to have google play services officially supported in a BB10 phone.

    I don't see how BB10 and android can merge without totally negating the security and privacy aspects of BB10 and support Google play at the same time.

    Containing them as two separate OSES within one device seems to be the only way.

    I for one would only buy this "androidised" BlackBerry if the android OS doesn't have free reign on my data.

    But I have a feeling, that because it's google, if BlackBerry decides to go android, it's going to be a full featured google approved android so we won't be able to modify permissions and containerise anything.

    It will merely be an android with a blackberry 10 skin. If this happens then the sky has fallen for me.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by The Big Picture; 03-06-15 at 01:52 AM.
    03-06-15 01:41 AM
  25. The Big Picture's Avatar
    I understand that this thread is rumor and speculation. And i agree with many saying it is worth Blackberry to investigate. And i can see how this may actual be a smart move for them. But one of the reasons that i use a Blackberry not an android device. Is due to level of privacy invasion that we see from Google services. Blackberry in their privacy policy maps out very clearly how they use your data. As i have said many times from a policy stand point they display a superior level of responsibility and desire in protecting your user data.

    With android, this goes out the window. I like android as an OS. in some iterations it offers very good user experience ( not so good in others). But the high level of Google integration has turned me off from Android completely.

    If Blackberry switches to Android. To keep me as a customer, it would have to be a very different version of android then what comes to mind.

    Either way, i hope they make whatever decision pays off best for them as a company
    I echo your words mate.

    Posted via CB10
    Plummerdc88 likes this.
    03-06-15 01:53 AM
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