07-07-15 07:23 AM
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  1. kojita's Avatar
    Not switching, but running on BB10 with full functionnality (picture Blackerrry10 OS powered by Google services or something like that), so not dual OS but almost. I like it.
    03-05-15 04:17 AM
  2. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    weird image this morning reading this ...
    TIZEN10

    lol & salt it ... a lot. Still IMHO, way more chances to happen than Android alone (says much about the probability, uh?)
    03-05-15 04:32 AM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    No, I don't like Android either, which is why I said above that it wasn't about me.

    For BB though, I still believe a secure Android might be an escape route from BB10 for all the reasons mentioned above by others.

    Is success guaranteed, or even likely? No, but the alternative of continuing with BB10 isn't working out too well so far.
    I am not even disagreeing with you.
    Remember the good old days of the BB10 launch and how people whined that they wanted more BBOS and nothing else?
    I talked a lot about the possible potential behind BB10 and why the transition to a new OS was necessary, why clamouring to BBOS actually brought BlackBerry into the position they were in 2012/13 and some other stuff.

    I am still a 100% of that opinion. The transition to a new OS was necessary. Something radically different to BBOS.
    Back then I thought that BB10 could have been a saviour for BlackBerry. And I even still believe that. With better management and a better product portfolio, BB10 might have been what I imagined it to become (the 3rd force in the market).

    Today however, with all of the knowledge and hindsight I have, accepting the incompetent management...
    I have to admit that BlackBerry probably should have adopted a hardened/secured Android version sometimes in 2010 already (or even before. But that's too much alternative universe talk).

    I might have never bought a Z10 and the Passport probably would have never been conceived, but BlackBerry as a company wouldn't have suffered that much.
    The only thing I wonder... Are the execs at BlackBerry really able to swallow their pride and admit defeat?
    Do they really have the guts to adopt Android in 2015?
    And... Does it actually make sense, or is it too late already?
    JeepBB, Maxxxpower and Bsbudd like this.
    03-05-15 04:34 AM
  4. Rohtakite's Avatar
    Lol

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-05-15 05:05 AM
  5. JeepBB's Avatar
    I am not even disagreeing with you.
    Remember the good old days of the BB10 launch and how people whined that they wanted more BBOS and nothing else?
    I talked a lot about the possible potential behind BB10 and why the transition to a new OS was necessary, why clamouring to BBOS actually brought BlackBerry into the position they were in 2012/13 and some other stuff.

    I am still a 100% of that opinion. The transition to a new OS was necessary. Something radically different to BBOS.
    Back then I thought that BB10 could have been a saviour for BlackBerry. And I even still believe that. With better management and a better product portfolio, BB10 might have been what I imagined it to become (the 3rd force in the market).

    Today however, with all of the knowledge and hindsight I have, accepting the incompetent management...
    I have to admit that BlackBerry probably should have adopted a hardened/secured Android version sometimes in 2010 already (or even before. But that's too much alternative universe talk).

    I might have never bought a Z10 and the Passport probably would have never been conceived, but BlackBerry as a company wouldn't have suffered that much.
    The only thing I wonder... Are the execs at BlackBerry really able to swallow their pride and admit defeat?
    Do they really have the guts to adopt Android in 2015?
    And... Does it actually make sense, or is it too late already?
    At the risk of this becoming a "love in", I agree with this.

    BB couldn't continue with BBOS. It needed replacement.

    IMO, BB10 had a genuine chance of being that replacement, but BB blew it because they were too late and (more importantly) didn't bring along the bulk of their existing users. My recollection of the complaints on CB forums at the time is *not* that BB10 was "too different", but that so much BBOS functionality had been discarded from BB10. So much in fact that BB10 felt like a downgrade to many here. The fact that much of that functionality has returned in later versions of BB10 kind of proves that there was no good reason for those omissions.

    Having lost a significant amount of goodwill from existing BBOS users, BB10 pretty much started from scratch in having to build a user base and has never really recovered. And, IMO, never will.

    So much for the past. It can't be changed.

    The future? ... I think it probably *is* too late for even a secure BB Android to succeed. BB are already too late in that Boeing already are in that market, which is always going to be small. But, sticking with BB10 is hardly a proven road to success either.

    Tough call. I'm glad I'm not Chen! LOL
    Maxxxpower and MarsupilamiX like this.
    03-05-15 05:18 AM
  6. Bilaal's Avatar
    Isn't a slider phone an all touch as well? One doesn't have to slide the pkb out to make full use of the phone.
    Yes, you would think so, but people seriously consider having a a physical keyboard smartphone "a step back" and those people are the types that purchase Samsung and Apple devices, BlackBerry would surely want their attention with a device like this. Just my two cents.
    03-05-15 05:35 AM
  7. Mr.mister's Avatar
    How can BlackBerry survive the android market when just their name = hate. People just hate the name BlackBerry. It's like BlackBerry went to their house, murder their parents, and burn the house. So how can they survive with android. How can they differentiate, if what they differentiate is the keyboard and it's a step back. People actually don't care about privacy and security. And it's shows in the sales.

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 06:25 AM
  8. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I might have never bought a Z10 and the Passport probably would have never been conceived, but BlackBerry as a company wouldn't have suffered that much.
    The only thing I wonder... Are the execs at BlackBerry really able to swallow their pride and admit defeat?
    Do they really have the guts to adopt Android in 2015?
    And... Does it actually make sense, or is it too late already?
    There was a simple choice: break apart for a penny or rebuild based on DNA.
    The later has been made; was it the easiest ? Probably not: since then, BlackBerry has been mostly in troubles.
    Adaptation and risky choices - against all odds with "RIM/Blackberry is dead already / falling knife" song aired on every single tech/financial media - have so far (with a human cost I cannot forget though) resulted in a break even situation and a niche strategy most would describe as pertinent, cash positive and possibly viable on the long haul.

    We're entering a new era of stabilization and - moreover - rationalization of mobile (connected) world. There have been such a deviance in usage, so many - unmonitored - security/privacy/productivity/cost issues that I pretend the next big thing is to ensure mobile devices are used accordingly with defined rules and usage, even for the mid/low sized companies.
    This extension to small companies is the next big thing IMHO. In France, these "small" companies are half of the pie (in terms of workforce) and is an unexplored market.
    For these, entering for the first time rationalization or even managed devices, BB10 core apps are fairly enough to raise their efficiency by a wide magnitude without injecting complexity and huge costs.

    Today, I don't even think about BB10, I'm just considering its security and consistency.
    - When I saw the Elite OS 10.3 preview webinar, I couldn't refrain a WOW. It was Blend : This was the event.
    - After testing BES10 in the cloud for several months (year), I couldn't wait (Diego, are you there ? ). Now we 'have' (yet to be released) BES12 in the Cloud and built-in offerings like BBM under steroids (protected, meetings).
    For the first time in years, I can now see vision/promises turned into delivery.
    And they added the platform agnostic
    ... Jesus.

    It's only a battle, in a specific area and one would be a fanatic, fool or dreamer to pretend they'll win the war ...
    But finally, isn't this battle (Enterprises) enough to make BlackBerry one of the most atypical and unexpected comeback in their industry ?
    They don't have to "strike back" nor become an "Empire" again (ok, I've been using both sometimes, hit me).
    They just need *above all* to find their best position, one they can conquest from. IMHO, they did.

    So, after 4 years of survival - beating 99,9% of 2010 estimations, forecasts or financial analysis - and finally seeing the halo of the light, BlackBerry should consider ditching their strategy, bin 6 years of R&D and acquisitions ?
    Yeah, anyone can definitely call me fool, fanatic, dreamer or whatever rosy filter he wants.
    I had a feeling, mostly guts driven. Today, I never felt it was so close from truth.

    Stay on defined path, execute, deliver and finally ... SELL LIKE H3|| !

    P.S: I've fired "I support BlackBerry and I buy shares" back in sept 2011.
    You might see pretty soon - God willing - a "I support BlackBerry, I founded a company" thread.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 03-05-15 at 07:36 AM.
    03-05-15 06:55 AM
  9. birdman_38's Avatar
    How can BlackBerry survive the Android market when just their name = hate. People just hate the name BlackBerry. It's like BlackBerry went to their house, murdered their parents, and burned the house. So how can they survive with Android?
    The existing brand damage would be a factor. But they have a much better chance of survival with an OS that has 80% market share compared to one that has 1% and shrinking.

    Android has over 1.1 billion active devices. BlackBerry has 40 million. Yet BlackBerry has bigger worldwide carrier distribution than most Android manufacturers. The possibility of greater success with Android is very good.
    03-05-15 07:20 AM
  10. AluminiumRims's Avatar
    I think this rumor is more of subversion technique by the media. Remember infamous "leaked" Elop memo about Symbian. The memo was not only intended for scaring off new Symbian customers but also causing disbelief within the company. This in order to make the workers within Nokia to accept defeat and they must adopt Windows Phone otherwise they will die.

    Today, we know better and it looks more and more that Meego could have helped Nokia to survive without Microsoft. Now we see the same thing with Blackberry and they must adopt Android otherwise they will die. This is a way remove competitors of US operating systems. Hopefully Blackberry will not fall into the same trap.
    03-05-15 07:21 AM
  11. Uzi's Avatar
    I think this rumor is more of subversion technique by the media. Remember infamous "leaked" Elop memo about Symbian. The memo was not only intended for scaring off new Symbian customers but also causing disbelief within the company. This in order to make the workers within Nokia to accept defeat and they must adopt Windows Phone otherwise they will die.

    Today, we know better and it looks more and more that Meego could have helped Nokia to survive without Microsoft. Now we see the same thing with Blackberry and they must adopt Android otherwise they will die. This is a way remove competitors of US operating systems. Hopefully Blackberry will not fall into the same trap.
    You have good point

    Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on 4G Altel network
    Superfly_FR and MarsupilamiX like this.
    03-05-15 07:39 AM
  12. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    The existing brand damage would be a factor. But they have a much better chance of survival with an OS that has 80% market share compared to one that has 1% and shrinking.

    Android has over 1.1 billion active devices. BlackBerry has 40 million. Yet BlackBerry has bigger worldwide carrier distribution than most Android manufacturers. The possibility of greater success with Android is very good.
    Let's talk about it in - maybe - 2 years from now.
    While it makes sense in the consumers area, BlackBerry simply can't afford it right now. It's a matter of marketing power, i.e costs. Therefore their rightsizing of the company.
    The big twos are spending (while they are more in loyalty than conquest programs) roughly $1Billion per year to sustain their position.

    Q: "Show me the money"
    Answer (if any) would be the #1 no go here.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 03-05-15 at 08:19 AM.
    03-05-15 07:40 AM
  13. birdman_38's Avatar
    Let's talk about it in - maybe - 2 years from now.
    While it makes sense in the consumers area, BlackBerry simply can't afford it right now. It's a matter of marketing power, i.e costs. Therefore their rightsizing of the company.
    The big twos are spending (while they are more in loyalty than conquest programs) roughly $1Billion per year to sustain their position.

    Q: "Show me the money"
    Answer (if any) would be the #1 no go here.
    Right. So it's better to try to sustain an operating system whose market share is shrinking into oblivion, which carriers are losing interest in, and which native developers are leaving...for two more years. Makes sense.
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-05-15 08:25 AM
  14. tonyrenier's Avatar
    BlackBerry running Android is a sure step to obscurity. Won't happen. Enterprize, Government need security. What did Sony do after their hack? Bought a bunch of BlackBerrys.
    03-05-15 08:28 AM
  15. sati01's Avatar
    Let's talk about it in - maybe - 2 years from now.
    While it makes sense in the consumers area, BlackBerry simply can't afford it right now. It's a matter of marketing power, i.e costs. Therefore their rightsizing of the company.
    The big twos are spending (while they are more in loyalty than conquest programs) roughly $1Billion per year to sustain their position.

    "Show me the money" answer would be the #1 no go here.
    The Passport, Classic and "slider" are all niche devices. The Leap is almost 50% more expensive than the z3. The volume will fall sharply probably closer to 1 million phones per quarter. The core apps are being migrated to Android and iOS. If they really want to continue with hardware, it's the best time to switch to Android.

    When Chen says that BlackBerry makes money on hardware, I don't think he is including the development costs of BB10, and that's a lot of money.
    03-05-15 08:29 AM
  16. birdman_38's Avatar
    What did Sony do after their hack? Bought a bunch of BlackBerrys.
    That's incorrect. They activated a bunch of old legacy BlackBerrys they had in storage.
    03-05-15 08:37 AM
  17. sati01's Avatar
    weird image this morning reading this ...
    TIZEN10

    lol & salt it ... a lot. Still IMHO, way more chances to happen than Android alone (says much about the probability, uh?)
    I think Tizen is already outselling BlackBerry in the two markets where it was launched: India and Bangladesh.
    In its first month in India it got 1.4% of market share, in Bangladesh close to 8%.
    Tizen was designed for the low end segment, it runs great with low specs.
    JeepBB and sentimentGX4 like this.
    03-05-15 08:40 AM
  18. Pcmx's Avatar
    I thought 10.3.1 already is Android. Doesn't everybody know? That's why it looks different and took so long to be released
    03-05-15 08:52 AM
  19. NoleCPA's Avatar
    If they can take the best features of BB10 and put it on an android or ios phone, why not do the same thing with a BlackBerry phone? All the BlackBerry experience software would come pre-loaded. We would have access to google play but keep the best parts of BB10. I could go for it.

    Posted via CB10
    03-05-15 09:03 AM
  20. edwinsberry's Avatar
    There was a simple choice: break apart for a penny or rebuild based on DNA.
    The later has been made; was it the easiest ? Probably not: since then, BlackBerry has been mostly in troubles.
    Adaptation and risky choices - against all odds with "RIM/Blackberry is dead already / falling knife" song aired on every single tech/financial media - have so far (with a human cost I cannot forget though) resulted in a break even situation and a niche strategy most would describe as pertinent, cash positive and possibly viable on the long haul.

    We're entering a new era of stabilization and - moreover - rationalization of mobile (connected) world. There have been such a deviance in usage, so many - unmonitored - security/privacy/productivity/cost issues that I pretend the next big thing is to ensure mobile devices are used accordingly with defined rules and usage, even for the mid/low sized companies.
    This extension to small companies is the next big thing IMHO. In France, these "small" companies are half of the pie (in terms of workforce) and is an unexplored market.
    For these, entering for the first time rationalization or even managed devices, BB10 core apps are fairly enough to raise their efficiency by a wide magnitude without injecting complexity and huge costs.

    Today, I don't even think about BB10, I'm just considering its security and consistency.
    - When I saw the Elite OS 10.3 preview webinar, I couldn't refrain a WOW. It was Blend : This was the event.
    - After testing BES10 in the cloud for several months (year), I couldn't wait (Diego, are you there ? ). Now we 'have' (yet to be released) BES12 in the Cloud and built-in offerings like BBM under steroids (protected, meetings).
    For the first time in years, I can now see vision/promises turned into delivery.
    And they added the platform agnostic
    ... Jesus.

    It's only a battle, in a specific area and one would be a fanatic, fool or dreamer to pretend they'll win the war ...
    But finally, isn't this battle (Enterprises) enough to make BlackBerry one of the most atypical and unexpected comeback in their industry ?
    They don't have to "strike back" nor become an "Empire" again (ok, I've been using both sometimes, hit me).
    They just need *above all* to find their best position, one they can conquest from. IMHO, they did.

    So, after 4 years of survival - beating 99,9% of 2010 estimations, forecasts or financial analysis - and finally seeing the halo of the light, BlackBerry should consider ditching their strategy, bin 6 years of R&D and acquisitions ?
    Yeah, anyone can definitely call me fool, fanatic, dreamer or whatever rosy filter he wants.
    I had a feeling, mostly guts driven. Today, I never felt it was so close from truth.

    Stay on defined path, execute, deliver and finally ... SELL LIKE H3|| !

    P.S: I've fired "I support BlackBerry and I buy shares" back in sept 2011.
    You might see pretty soon - God willing - a "I support BlackBerry, I founded a company" thread.
    I think this post is spot on and makes more sense than anything I have read in months regarding the business strategy of BB. IMHO BB is looking for revenue streams wherever they may be found within the confines of their overall Enterprise strategy. Additionally BB seems to be flexible enough to go outside that if it makes sense but they seem to be careful about chasing their tail right now in terms of following every whim. BB is becoming a support company for business. In some ways not unlike IBM when it suffered comparable defeats. It had to get humble and find ways to survive albeit on a smaller scale.

    Follow the money, listen to the customers who have the money, give them what they need.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    03-05-15 09:31 AM
  21. anon(8865116)'s Avatar
    Honestly, I don't understand why google isn't more lax about using google play services. You know that you have one of the best collection of services so why not just allow other providers to use these services for a fee or something. I'm sure there is a reason but trying to prevent other OSs from becoming popular is not a good reason. In fact, it is why a lot of people hate apple products and why blackberry fell so far behind.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-05-15 09:57 AM
  22. KDB84's Avatar
    No.
    03-05-15 10:15 AM
  23. RyanGermann's Avatar
    What's crystal clear to me is that there's no way BB can make money selling 5-6M phones a year when they've got to make 8-12 hardware variants (not counting color options) between models and radios.
    If you sell 5-6 million of anything at a profit you make a profit.

    The assumption that you can't sell something at a profit i.e. you have set costs to make it and no matter what you have to sell it at some arbitrary price baffles me.

    Tiffany, Cartier, Hermes, Armani, Mercedes-Benz, Rolls Royce and notably Porsche and many more completely contradict the notion that ties cost to build a mobile smart phone device with some arbitrary "must cost $500" therefore be sold at a loss. It makes no sense. BlackBerry's errors were overproducing handsets and not having customers for them, having to "write down" the inventory and so on. That damaged market perception as well as the bottom line.

    BlackBerry can make devices at an all-in cost of $500 (including costs of distribution and marketing etc. that's all in, that means even selling at $501 means one dollar profit) and sell them for $700 to the small number of fans worldwide who WILL buy the device, these would not be cheap low-tier devices, these would be high quality devices.

    If there is any data that shows that to make a device of the quality of an S6 in low volume (fewer than 1 million units) it would cost $900, someone PLEASE present it. I believe a Galaxy S6 made in the volume of 70 million would cost around $200 per device to manufacture, but made in the quantity of 1 million would cost $350-400 to manufacture, not $800. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you can make 1 million devices for $400 each and sell them for $600 at retail, then I think there is profit to be made on low volume production runs.

    I agree with most of your other points except adopting Android in 2010: they would be exactly where HTC or LG is: struggling to get mind share faced with the onslaught of Apple and Samsung, so I don't think there is any scenario that would have played out differently except one: if instead of trying to adapt BBOS5 to a full touch user interface, they just bought QNX right then and there and started on BB10 instead of trying twice with the Storm devices and then adapting BBOS again to BBOS 7, which in the end wasn't a bad all-touch user experience, but that was based on the aging BBOS core that just couldn't provide the performance (and was based on too-modest hardware). Hindsight is 20-20, but I retrospectively still think adopting Android would have had a "sliding doors" type of situation ending up exactly where they are.

    Apple had a completely different R&D philosophy than BB at that point: they sought out third-party technologies like the capacitive multi-touch digitizer and thought long and hard and worked with component suppliers to craft a technology that could be cost-effectively manufactured for practical use in a consumer product.

    If BlackBerry, not Apple, had pursued capacitive touch screen on a mobile device, the smartphone world would be different, but whomever at Apple saw the potential of that technology (was it actually Steve Jobs) should get a lot of credit. I saw a video online showing capacitive touchscreen a-la Surface from a 2006 TED talk that got a standing ovation: someone in that audience got word to Apple to look into this technology I bet. In his biography of Jobs, Walter Isaacson said that Steve's sense of "urgency" was key to Jobs' / Apple's success... and I bet once Jobs got wind of this, he had the insight to move full speed ahead in that direction and the world changed.

    Ah, well... water under the bridge.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 03-05-15 at 11:08 AM.
    03-05-15 10:51 AM
  24. The Big Picture's Avatar
    Nokia tried running android. That failed. Sony is running android that's failing too.

    If BlackBerry is going to run any form of android it better be almost rebuilt from ground up featuring everything that's "blackberry" meaning security and privacy, which is completely polar opposite of android.

    Otherwise forget about it.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by The Big Picture; 03-05-15 at 11:15 AM.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    03-05-15 11:01 AM
  25. inurear's Avatar
    Did everybody in this thread forget that BlackBerry owns QNX?

    Also: The Swedish QT team are researching/cooking up something for blackberry, and I'm assuming it's not just a new look and feel - as their latest offering boasts cross-platform capabilities.
    03-05-15 11:04 AM
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