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  1. southlander's Avatar
    John Chen has never stated he is proud of BlackBerry 10 OS.
    I wouldn't expect him to make any definitive statements yet. I do recall however, an interview where he said BlackBerry 10 was a platform that would last them for many years. Something like that anyway.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    04-22-15 04:21 AM
  2. southlander's Avatar
    And good luck getting access to Google Play in that scenario, which defeats the whole purpose. People need to give up the Android dream. There are Android OEM's that do Android FAR better than BlackBerry ever could, and THEY MAKE NO MONEY! Sigh...
    The companies making "no money" on Android are not selling to the same customer demographic BlackBerry targets.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Loc22 likes this.
    04-22-15 04:29 AM
  3. southlander's Avatar
    Well said. Thank you.

    In terms of HW sales, I read somewhere that in BB's peak when they were # 1, they shipped 11 million devices. Obviously the smartphone world has changed and the market is much bigger. But the question is, if HW sales of 11 million were considered good back in 2007, why not today, putting aside how that translates into overall market share? And is this where Chen came up with his magical 10 million devices #?
    I think at blackberrys peak they were moving something like 14 million handsets a year.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    04-22-15 04:47 AM
  4. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    I think at blackberrys peak they were moving something like 14 million handsets a year.
    A quarter!
    In Q4/10 they shipped more devices than BB10 smartphones were shipped since launch in 2013!
    04-22-15 04:54 AM
  5. southlander's Avatar
    A quarter!
    In Q4/10 they shipped more devices than BB10 smartphones were shipped since launch in 2013!
    Ah yes. You're right. Per quarter. Sorry.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    04-22-15 05:01 AM
  6. TheAuthority's Avatar
    It's not my style to get into pissing matches with other members here. Believe whatever you want to. We'll see who's right by the end of the fiscal year.
    I'm gonna start a topic with a list of all the seers, the members on this site who have been predicting BlackBerry's demise in some short time (two quarters to two years) for the past five years. I'll put you in the "by the end of the fiscal year" column. But don't feel too bad. You'll be in the company of plenty of know-nothing analysts and tech bloggers, many of who themselves are MIA, obsolete and/or irrelevant as ever.
    04-22-15 06:29 AM
  7. birdman_38's Avatar
    I'm gonna start a topic with a list of all the seers, the members on this site who have been predicting BlackBerry's demise in some short time (two quarters to two years) for the past five years. I'll put you in the "by the end of the fiscal year" column.
    I've never said BlackBerry itself would be bankrupt (although they were headed there in 2013). I am saying that it's difficult for a mobile OS with 0.1% market share after 26 months to gain traction. The current model is not working.

    I predict they'll either:
    1. Adopt Android with Google services and put minimal resources into BB10.
    2. Licence or sell BB10 and pkb patents to Samsung on the condition they maintain the user base.
    3. Discontinue BB10 and instead offer Samsung Android devices to enterprise.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    04-22-15 08:40 AM
  8. ubizmo's Avatar
    I'm gonna start a topic with a list of all the seers, the members on this site who have been predicting BlackBerry's demise in some short time (two quarters to two years) for the past five years. I'll put you in the "by the end of the fiscal year" column. But don't feel too bad. You'll be in the company of plenty of know-nothing analysts and tech bloggers, many of who themselves are MIA, obsolete and/or irrelevant as ever.
    No one in this thread, as far as I can see, is predicting the demise of BlackBerry. There is, however, a case to be made that BlackBerry will survive as a profitable company that either doesn't make handsets at all or only makes very limited quantities of devices for direct order by regulated industries and government agencies. That is not the same as the demise of BlackBerry.

    This is a rumor thread about BlackBerry releasing an Android device. No one knows whether it will happen, but some of us think it might not be a bad idea for them to try, even if they continue making small production runs of BB10 devices. This thread started, I believe, before Chen announced the coming launch of the "BlackBerry Experience" to all other platforms. Now that this has been announced, I think the rumor has a little less steam, but you never know. If the BlackBerry Experience brings the distinctive BB10 user experience to Android (which seems to be the whole point), it's less clear that BlackBerry would have any good reason to build an actual Android device.
    MarsupilamiX and techvisor like this.
    04-22-15 08:43 AM
  9. ubizmo's Avatar
    I've never said BlackBerry itself would be bankrupt (although they were headed there in 2013). I am saying that it's difficult for a mobile OS with 0.1% market share after 26 months to gain traction. The current model is not working.

    I predict they'll either:
    1. Adopt Android with Google services and put minimal resources into BB10.
    2. Licence or sell BB10 and pkb patents to Samsung on the condition they maintain the user base.
    3. Discontinue BB10 and instead offer Samsung Android devices to enterprise.
    Our posts crossed.

    There's also:

    4. Maintain BB10 and continue production of Leap-caliber fleet phones, while generating software/service revenue from BlackBerry Experience sales or subscriptions (I think the subscription approach would fail, but what do I know?).
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    04-22-15 08:46 AM
  10. birdman_38's Avatar
    I wouldn't expect him to make any definitive statements yet. I do recall however, an interview where he said BlackBerry 10 was a platform that would last them for many years. Something like that anyway.
    Long lasting? Sure.
    Sustainable? Not exactly.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    04-22-15 08:54 AM
  11. TheAuthority's Avatar
    On and on the bs in this "rumor" thread ...
    So we've transitioned from BlackBerry's demise to the demise of BlackBerry 10. Not gonna happen. I'll still be using fully supported BlackBerry 10 for many years to come. I'll obtain new replacement handsets (yes they'll continue to be available) whenever it becomes necessary or desirable. Enjoy your pointless, go-nowhere-as-usual rumor thread.
    04-23-15 11:11 AM
  12. southlander's Avatar
    On and on the bs in this "rumor" thread ...
    So we've transitioned from BlackBerry's demise to the demise of BlackBerry 10. Not gonna happen. I'll still be using fully supported BlackBerry 10 for many years to come. I'll obtain new replacement handsets (yes they'll continue to be available) whenever it becomes necessary or desirable. Enjoy your pointless, go-nowhere-as-usual rumor thread.
    The original rumor was that BlackBerry might switch to Android. No one knows what that would mean if it happened. Could mean BB 10 dies at some point. Hopefully not. Or it could mean a dual strategy keeping bb10 for highly secure environments like DoD. Who knows. And of course rumors are just that.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    ubizmo and MarsupilamiX like this.
    04-23-15 03:26 PM
  13. Loc22's Avatar
    I don't foresee this. The reason is because I think it doesn't make business sense for BlackBerry to switch to Android. The reasons are as follows ;

    1. Firstly they have spent millions to develop the BlackBerry 10 OS to throw it away would be throwing millions down for drain.

    2. BlackBerry manufacturing an Android phone is going into a crowded market with very slim margins. They will also be entering a market that competes based on hardware spec's an area where BlackBerry is weakest. This is also entering a red ocean strategy where they have to enter a crowded market to kill or get killed.

    3. Yes, by releasing an Android device will give BlackBerry smartphones instant access to all Android apps which is a big thing in today's smartphone industry. However the BlackBerry name is no longer viable because those who know BlackBerry will no longer look at buying one because they still have a preconception that they still have to spend extra for BIS, or that BlackBerry is too old and no longer in fashion.

    For those who have not heard of BlackBerry would not want to buy it because the market discourages it by saying it is lousy, old, outdated & simply not making it available for them to buy it. Due to this reason I believe that going android will make no difference to BlackBerry but just loosing more money when it can least afford it.

    I'm of the opinion that it is money spent wisely should BlackBerry focus it's efforts & resources in making the OS 10 better & also marketing the products & services to the world. I believe what JC is doing is creating a new market for BlackBerry, One where the competition has yet to enter so that BlackBerry will once again take the lead. The device portion of the business will no longer take centre stage but a supporting role in big picture of the BlackBerry Story.

    Posted via CB10
    Smokeaire likes this.
    04-24-15 11:07 AM
  14. birdman_38's Avatar
    I don't foresee this. The reason is because I think it doesn't make business sense for BlackBerry to switch to Android. The reasons are as follows ;

    1. Firstly they have spent millions to develop the BlackBerry 10 OS to throw it away would be throwing millions down for drain.

    2. BlackBerry manufacturing an Android phone is going into a crowded market with very slim margins. They will also be entering a market that competes based on hardware spec's an area where BlackBerry is weakest. This is also entering a red ocean strategy where they have to enter a crowded market to kill or get killed.

    3. Yes, by releasing an Android device will give BlackBerry smartphones instant access to all Android apps which is a big thing in today's smartphone industry. However the BlackBerry name is no longer viable because those who know BlackBerry will no longer look at buying one because they still have a preconception that they still have to spend extra for BIS, or that BlackBerry is too old and no longer in fashion.

    For those who have not heard of BlackBerry would not want to buy it because the market discourages it by saying it is lousy, old, outdated & simply not making it available for them to buy it. Due to this reason I believe that going android will make no difference to BlackBerry but just loosing more money when it can least afford it.

    I'm of the opinion that it is money spent wisely should BlackBerry focus it's efforts & resources in making the OS 10 better & also marketing the products & services to the world. I believe what JC is doing is creating a new market for BlackBerry, One where the competition has yet to enter so that BlackBerry will once again take the lead. The device portion of the business will no longer take centre stage but a supporting role in big picture of the BlackBerry Story.
    One could counter all your points with a single sentence...

    It would be designed for enterprise.
    04-24-15 11:51 AM
  15. The Commander's Avatar
    If u guys want android get an android phone!!!! Shut up about BlackBerry going for android!!!! Cause it will never happen!!!!!!!!!!!!! Aaaaarrrrrrrggghhh!!!!!

    Posted via CB10
    Smokeaire likes this.
    04-24-15 12:00 PM
  16. southlander's Avatar
    1. Firstly they have spent millions to develop the BlackBerry 10 OS to throw it away would be throwing millions down for drain.
    Being wrong is bad. Staying wrong is worse. Heard this said before about holding losing stocks. But I think it applies to anything where a bad choice is made and one sticks with it because of the invested cost, forgoing recovering that cost and more by changing course.
    04-24-15 02:44 PM
  17. Loc22's Avatar
    Being wrong is bad. Staying wrong is worse. Heard this said before about holding losing stocks. But I think it applies to anything where a bad choice is made and one sticks with it because of the invested cost, forgoing recovering that cost and more by changing course.
    Well perhaps I need to rephrase that. I think it is a very good choice that BlackBerry has made to stick to BlackBerry 10 as this makes business sense. It creates a niche that will allow them to compete on even footing with the rest.

    Perhaps BlackBerry can spend more doing marketing. Don't focus too much on revenue from BlackBerry World first. Then it may make BlackBerry World more attractive to developers.

    How you may ask. If it does up to me, I would tell all developers that whatever apps they have on BlackBerry World, they will earn everything They charge. With a condition that those apps must allow at least 3 weeks free trial to the user's before charging them. Let them do this for the next 12 months.

    Develop a compiler for developers who develop for Android to automatically convert their apps as native to BlackBerry.

    In this way I'm sure it will make it attractive for android developers to develop for 2 platforms & we will see a steady increase in BlackBerry native apps.

    Posted via CB10
    04-24-15 02:59 PM
  18. pkcable's Avatar
    04-24-15 04:35 PM
  19. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Well perhaps I need to rephrase that. I think it is a very good choice that BlackBerry has made to stick to BlackBerry 10 as this makes business sense. It creates a niche that will allow them to compete on even footing with the rest.

    Posted via CB10
    Do you honestly believe that BlackBerry competes on even footing with anyone, or will in the future?

    The sentence is a joke, sorry.
    BlackBerry didn't compete since the 9900 with anyone. Well with Windows for the 3rd place, and where did that end again? (with 0.4% marketshare)

    Don't fool yourself, neither the OS (apps) nor the devices (form-factor, prices and specs) have been competing successfully.
    They lose every single time, as long as ultra regulated industries or government agencies are not concerned.

    The distance between the players in the market is already too big and the market too saturated.
    The current paradigm won't change much, which means that the barriers of entry for a new OS are simply too big, as long as regulations won't step in and make the access to Google Services lawfully mandatory for Android runtimes.

    The market is simply too advanced, for a player with 0.4% marketshare (which looks like it will get to 0.1-0.2% this year).
    Maxxxpower, ccbs and techvisor like this.
    04-25-15 01:27 PM
  20. Loc22's Avatar
    Do you honestly believe that BlackBerry competes on even footing with anyone, or will in the future?

    The sentence is a joke, sorry.
    BlackBerry didn't compete since the 9900 with anyone. Well with Windows for the 3rd place, and where did that end again? (with 0.4% marketshare)

    Don't fool yourself, neither the OS (apps) nor the devices (form-factor, prices and specs) have been competing successfully.
    They lose every single time, as long as ultra regulated industries or government agencies are not concerned.

    The distance between the players in the market is already too big and the market too saturated.
    The current paradigm won't change much, which means that the barriers of entry for a new OS are simply too big, as long as regulations won't step in and make the access to Google Services lawfully mandatory for Android runtimes.

    The market is simply too advanced, for a player with 0.4% marketshare (which looks like it will get to 0.1-0.2% this year).
    I'm sorry then you don't understand business.

    Posted via CB10
    04-26-15 02:27 AM
  21. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    Do you honestly believe that BlackBerry competes on even footing with anyone, or will in the future?

    The sentence is a joke, sorry.
    BlackBerry didn't compete since the 9900 with anyone. Well with Windows for the 3rd place, and where did that end again? (with 0.4% marketshare)

    Don't fool yourself, neither the OS (apps) nor the devices (form-factor, prices and specs) have been competing successfully.
    They lose every single time, as long as ultra regulated industries or government agencies are not concerned.

    The distance between the players in the market is already too big and the market too saturated.
    The current paradigm won't change much, which means that the barriers of entry for a new OS are simply too big, as long as regulations won't step in and make the access to Google Services lawfully mandatory for Android runtimes.

    The market is simply too advanced, for a player with 0.4% marketshare (which looks like it will get to 0.1-0.2% this year).
    In fact BB10 is a competitive OS in that it has the features and capabilities of the other modern OS's. The fact that it hasn't gained user adoption has been more a failure of execution than the OS product.

    And saying that the market is going to be what it has it has been shows a serious lack of forward thinking - and an inability to learn from history. There are always changes.

    10 years ago no could imagine BlackBerry being toppled. What could be better than a little keyboard in your hand that you could check your email with? Someone dared to dream something different though and the mobile phone market shifted drastically. Do you believe that can't happen again?

    Will BlackBerry be the company to do that? I don't know. I kind of doubt it - but I don't close my mind to the possibilities.

    Posted via CB10
    04-26-15 09:19 AM
  22. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I'm sorry then you don't understand business.

    Posted via CB10
    Maybe I do not understand business, but I understand markets.
    And that is my view as a paid market analyst.

    But your post was a great rebuttal!
    I feel like you addressed a lot of points, used quite a few arguments, didn't use an ad hominem and had a very informed view to share.

    But since I like your style:
    If you believe that BlackBerry has been competiting successfully with BB10 and that the their products are currently competitive, then you don't understand business

    And saying that the market is going to be what it has it has been shows a serious lack of forward thinking - and an inability to learn from history. There are always changes.

    10 years ago no could imagine BlackBerry being toppled. What could be better than a little keyboard in your hand that you could check your email with? Someone dared to dream something different though and the mobile phone market shifted drastically. Do you believe that can't happen again?

    Will BlackBerry be the company to do that? I don't know. I kind of doubt it - but I don't close my mind to the possibilities.

    Posted via CB10
    The smartphone market is done.
    What you are talking about, is a de facto new product category, and that's not what I mean.

    Just look at the PC market and you'll understand it.
    Nothing has majorly changed in the OS war, since Windows 95.
    Apple gained a lot of users with their ultrabooks (MacBook Air), but that's it (a lot, still isn't that much, when we talk about marketshare).

    No new successful OS launches for consumer products and most businesses also use one of the 3 standard operating systems.
    The ratio between MacOs, Windows and Linux has also been pretty much the same for years and, with the biggest change in the luxury sector, as players like Sony and IBM lost that space to Apple.

    Then came the tablet and people started to talk about the post PC era, even though nothing changed that much.
    Tablets were just huge smartphones, instead of smaller laptops, and thus were unable to fulfil the post-PC promise, as you still needed a PC.
    It wasn't the only reason obviously. That the form-factor simply isn't good enough for productive or hardware intensive work, might be another issue.

    The concept of a smartphone, just like the concept of a PC, is pretty much finalised.
    There are basically no market evolutions, that could change the smartphone itself in such a revolutionised way, that a new player can emerge, with a new and inferior OS, to capture a wide audience of the market.

    If there will be a change, it will be in a new product category, like wearables. Or the IoT.
    But the smartphone market itself is done.
    And this knowledge does not stem from a lack of forward thinking, it emerged out of forward thinking.

    The biggest changes you will see in the smartphone market will be smaller prices.
    That's the biggest revolution we will witness in the next few quarters, because that's how you can catch the remaining non-smartphone owners (mostly, they will switch when they have to anyhow).

    In fact BB10 is a competitive OS in that it has the features and capabilities of the other modern OS's. The fact that it hasn't gained user adoption has been more a failure of execution than the OS product.
    The OS lacks a few million features every other OS has and we call those apps.
    Not even talking about the update policy.
    BB10 needs a second OS to be useful, something no other OS needs.

    Yes, the foundation is finally there, something that was never the case under BBOS, but the foundation is so poor and badly made, that it might just crumble away under your feet.

    In the end, BB10 is the problem though.
    BlackBerry wasted years when developing it. They wasted endless amounts of money.
    Burned through thousands of employees.
    And could have just used the real Android OS instead wasting all these resources on BB10.

    Beat them, or join them. BB10 doesn't beat anything though (0.4% marketshare since its inception) so Android or WP seem to be logical choices.
    It should also be of note, that the enterprise sector will sooner or later leave BlackBerry all together, because there is no reason to go with a BlackBerry, if you are not in an ultra regulated industry (and that sector is not big enough for the smartphone manufacturer called BlackBerry).
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 04-26-15 at 10:35 AM.
    04-26-15 09:38 AM
  23. nt300's Avatar
    Never in my life have I heard more nonsense. BB10 rocks them all, and no BlackBerry will never go Android. That's simply ludicrous lol.

    Developing BB10 was the best thing the company has done in a long time. The issue was poor execution. Android (And iOS) is a dead end OS with Zero Expandability. BB10 is limitless. FACT.

    Apps may be an issue, but how many bloody apps you people need? There's Android Apps that temporarily supplement BB10.

    Slowly but surely BB10 will increase its market share. It's either that, or cater to a large niche. As soon as people realize BB10 is not BB7.

    Mass media bashing harmed BlackBerry's image, and it's a matter of time, this negativity gets squashed.
    BBRY going Android? LMFHO

    Sexy White Z30....
    04-27-15 12:35 AM
  24. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Developing BB10 was the best thing the company has done in a long time. The issue was poor execution. Android (And iOS) is a dead end OS with Zero Expandability. BB10 is limitless. FACT.
    I always wonder in what kind of "reality" people live to actually believe stuff like this...
    techvisor and notfanboy like this.
    04-27-15 01:10 AM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    Android (And iOS) is a dead end OS with Zero Expandability. BB10 is limitless. FACT.
    Please provide proof of this FACT. You say it all the time like it is gospel, but I see no reason why either are limited with one being based in the MACH kernel and the other in Linux.

    Apps may be an issue, but how many bloody apps you people need? There's Android Apps that temporarily supplement BB10.
    Android support requires unsupported, and side loaded apps like SNAP and Cobalt's Google Play services. Amazon's app store is garbage. If it weren't for SNAP this platform would be useless. Businesses won't allow these to be installed. Most Joe's off the street won't put this effort in to make the phone serviceable.

    Slowly but surely BB10 will increase its market share. It's either that, or cater to a large niche. As soon as people realize BB10 is not BB7.
    When will this start? Will making four or five different versions of the poor selling Passport or adding a white Classic swing the pendulum? They are only releasing devices now that will sell to a smaller niche of the niche. Most of BB10's base is all touch and we have nothing to buy with only a likely fat, gimmicky curved screen, device that may actually be the only form factor with even less of a niche then what they have touched already, and given their track record and how little they showed of it showing how far off it is, might never see the light of day.

    Mass media bashing harmed BlackBerry's image, and it's a matter of time, this negativity gets squashed.
    BBRY going Android? LMFHO
    BlackBerry harmed BlackBerry's image by doing with BBOS what they are now doing with BB10:

    - Releasing devices with ancient hardware and charging way more than that hardware is worth.

    - Putting zero effort into the BlackBerry brand image and allowing it to further decay all while thinking it is all that is needed to move devices.

    - Ignoring the end users and supposedly doing what businesses want (which I don't believe and think Chen is just saying he is doing what they want). They did this with BBOS and it just pushed people to iOS and Android and allowed both platforms to get a foothold into business. Until they view the people who actually are using the devices, the end user, as the customer, and try to make then happy and satisfied, then they will continue to be a failure.


    But feel free to ignore reality and hope for this turn around happens while BlackBerry continues to alienate the majority of the BB10 base (all touch), continues to leave the people that actually bought into their lies on products like the PlayBook, or buying into the all touch BlackBerry 10 platform which they appear to be pulling from their PlayBook on how to treat customers on, and making the BBM experience worse with every release and trying to further extort the base. Yes my Z30 is a great device, but BlackBerry changing it's focus and targets every quarter and ignoring those of us who put up with them through this infinite transition phase has me about done, especially with providing no hope for a device to buy in the future and every single thing I have listed above.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30
    04-27-15 07:25 AM
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