07-07-15 06:23 AM
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  1. JeepBB's Avatar


    I think BlackBerry will sell a phone that runs both BB10 and Google's Android, with access to play store, using the QNX hypervisor.

    .
    Do the OHA rules allow for dual-booting?

    Genuine question, I realise Google won't allow forks, but does having two switchable OS's on the same platform get around it?
    Superfly_FR and MarsupilamiX like this.
    03-06-15 02:14 AM
  2. southlander's Avatar
    What did Sony do after their hack? Bought a bunch of BlackBerrys.
    Not exactly. Found some old ones and set them back up. Certainly BBOS devices. Not blackberry 10.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    03-06-15 02:34 AM
  3. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Not exactly. Found some old ones and set them back up. Certainly BBOS devices. Not blackberry 10.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    That's true, but that still doesn't keep it from being good publicity. And the hack itself has a lot of companies scrambling to patch vulnerabilities.

    BlackBerry is still the leader in Enterprise MDM.

    Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64
    03-06-15 02:53 AM
  4. anon(679606)'s Avatar
    & end users will root the device to regain real estate by deletion of the BlackBerry runtime they view as bloatware...
    they will make all android devices with a bb10 runtime
    03-06-15 03:24 AM
  5. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    An MDM and some apps make every smartphone secure enough for most corporate applications.
    BlackBerry does have an edge in terms of security, but the "good enough" model seems to have won.
    Where is the 'so far' ?
    No one would be happy with 'Armagedon' and I don't want it happens.
    Yet, even if we can discuss the approach, mobile devices are today (except for BlackBerry full solution) the weaker part of the security chain.
    Again "secure enough" is a language aberration, at least equal to '100% secure'. Social engineering (in short: gain personal informations that may lead to discover security IDs or/and password) are easier to perform on a device where personal and professional environments are merged is a good example: a weak / fake / harmful app or simply email can lead to breach in no time.
    IMHO, app containerisation is not enough, even if it's today's trend.
    Balance - or the likes - is.
    I'm currently leading a study for a personal project, I'll share the results with ya'll when done.



    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 03-06-15 at 09:39 AM.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-06-15 03:44 AM
  6. quikchip's Avatar
    Why in the world would anyone want a phone with two OSes? That'd mean you'd have to learn how to operate two different OSes, and constantly change from one to another during work and after work. Doesn't sound practical to me. Imagine giving a phone like that to an employee of yours who's come from iOS.
    If anything, I think Google sees how BlackBerry's QNX can be a useful tool when it comes time for Google to push their services onto IOT devices. I think both sides are at the early stages of making negotiations to exchange enterprise markets for app stores, then their partnership will either become deeper or Google will purchase BlackBerry.


    Posted via CB10
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    03-06-15 04:26 AM
  7. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Why in the world would anyone want a phone with two OSes? That'd mean you'd have to learn how to operate two different OSes, and constantly change from one to another during work and after work. Doesn't sound practical to me. Imagine giving a phone like that to an employee of yours who's come from iOS.
    Very relevant point. User experience at its worse shape.
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    03-06-15 06:05 AM
  8. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Why in the world would anyone want a phone with two OSes?
    Dunno. Same reason Mac users run Windows via Parallels or Bootcamp?
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-06-15 06:36 AM
  9. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    i really dislike android. I love some apps, especially the customization on reading apps... but the OS as a whole seems so clunky to me.
    Admittedly, my experience with Android skins and forks drove me nuts. The Galaxy Note I had before at work drove me nuts with TouchWiz. Found it so kludgy and annoying whenever I had to do anything. And the "Fire OS" fork on my Kindle Fire was a bit cleaner but suffered from random freezes, lags and slowdowns that made it utterly miserable.

    That said, Lollipop seems slicker and smoother and I wonder if someone (BlackBerry or otherwise) could make a good skin that replicated a nice UX (which Touchwiz did not have) in a performant way (which Fire OS did not have).
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-06-15 06:40 AM
  10. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I don't know about Troy, but brainstorming about these things kinda relaxes me
    The brainstorming part I like. The "everything is terrible about BlackBerry in every way, but yet I come here constantly to tell people about how everything is terrible" way of things, I don't get.
    LuvULongTime and grover5 like this.
    03-06-15 06:42 AM
  11. birdman_38's Avatar
    But one of the reasons that i use a Blackberry not an android device. Is due to level of privacy invasion that we see from Google services. Blackberry in their privacy policy maps out very clearly how they use your data. As i have said many times from a policy stand point they display a superior level of responsibility and desire in protecting your user data. of android then what comes to mind.
    Over one billion Android users worldwide don't care. Any company uses your data to their advantage.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-06-15 06:51 AM
  12. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Do the OHA rules allow for dual-booting?

    Genuine question, I realise Google won't allow forks, but does having two switchable OS's on the same platform get around it?
    What about a Balance Version, where the consumer side is Android, and business side is BB10?
    Would that work "on the fly"?
    Combine that with BlackBerry's virtual provisioned dual sim solution, and you just made BlackBerry interesting for BYOD and consumers again?

    Having 2 phone numbers in only one phone, and switching to the Android side when you go home after the job is done, should also be something you can easily sell to business people (and I don't just mean suits. Everybody who has a Job where communicating or working with one's smartphone is an integral part of it, falls in that category. Having 2 phones is kinda annoying, but only having one phone number for private and business isn't that much better. But what about one phone, with BB10 for business and the same phone also has Android for the after hours, while at the same time also offering 1 phone number per OS partition? SaaS and Hardware, enhancing sales of each other through halo effects. Also applicable in emerging markets)

    If something like that would even work, consumers might never experience BB10 though, as they don't have access to Balance...
    Maybe make Balance a consumer service for a reasonable one time fee?

    I am thinking pretty outside the box with that one...

    Over one billion Android users worldwide don't care. Any company uses your data to their advantage.
    With my "solution", you could please the privacy sensitive and tinfoil hat crowd as well *rotfl*
    03-06-15 07:12 AM
  13. quikchip's Avatar
    I think if Google don't hurry and allow Blackberry to use their app store and services, it'll bite them in the backside soon. If Blackberry is gaining traction in IOT and most importantly passenger cars, that could be a huge market for Google's mapping and music services.
    Majority of Google's ads are on their search engine, but once their maps are in cars, it'll open a whole new experience for drivers trying to not only find their destination, but recommended restaurants, stores, cafes, etc.
    It'd also be a massive boost for Google's music service.
    Blackberry (QNX) have been gaining a lot of traction lately in cars, for example Ford's Sync 3, so they do have a head start and have a lot to offer to Google.
    In regards to enterprise, I don't see how Google could benefit greatly by entering that market. Majority of their services are aimed towards consumers.
    03-06-15 07:20 AM
  14. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    What about a Balance Version, where the consumer side is Android, and business side is BB10?
    Would that work "on the fly"?
    Good idea. Imho, they should at least offer the existing Balance to any BB user, not just BES users. I'd use one part for private data and the other one to run Android Apps and wouldn't care about them trying to grab my data as it's stored secure in the other part of the OS.

    I think if Google don't hurry and allow Blackberry to use their app store and services, it'll bite them in the backside soon.
    I hope this is never going to happen. Not having Google on my phone is one of my top reasons for using a Blackberry.
    toneytone likes this.
    03-06-15 07:25 AM
  15. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    What about a Balance Version
    Yup, but it'll take time to make the user experience at least "similar", they have to rebrand the whole UI.

    Interesting article, slightly OT but not that much since it's clear that BlackBerry strategy is about "connected objects", not only smartphones.
    Samsung Galaxy S6, HTC One M9 will support MirrorLink as Android Auto alternative | PCWorld
    The point here is that there might be "similar" services and offerings made by Samsung (and others, including consortiums and alliances) to strengthen their independence V.S Google.
    Here, we're talking about Connected Car Consortium; I'll let you jump at the members page : Member List | MirrorLink
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    03-06-15 07:26 AM
  16. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    The brainstorming part I like. The "everything is terrible about BlackBerry in every way, but yet I come here constantly to tell people about how everything is terrible" way of things, I don't get.
    I don't think that I am negative... I am just not positive.
    This might sound like the same thing, but there's a difference. I don't try to sound negative or find negative things. It's just that, in the way I perceive things, it seems as though there aren't a lot of positives to talk about. I would need to be an optimist and force myself to be positive, to not sound pessimistic to you (even though I really don't think that I am that negative) and others.
    (lots of "I" in that paragraph. "I" usually try to avoid that. "I" hope you can pardon me)

    It really doesn't look good for the handset division...
    But there's absolutely no correlation between that, and me liking BB10 and a part of the BlackBerry handsets. Or that I'll buy that slider. Or that I, just like Troy, believe that BlackBerry the company, not the hardware manufacturer, will continue to exist and probably make a profit soon.
    You also can't deduct from my stance, if I want BlackBerry to fail, or prosper (I don't want them to fail obviously. At least not before they released the slider ).

    Now, that's only me. No idea for the other people around me.
    But Birdman doesn't seem THAT bad
    JeepBB likes this.
    03-06-15 07:32 AM
  17. birdman_38's Avatar
    Do the OHA rules allow for dual-booting?

    Genuine question, I realise Google won't allow forks, but does having two switchable OS's on the same platform get around it?
    Doubt it. I recall this going down last summer:
    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/...droid-devices/
    Huawei planned to release a dual boot Android & Windows Phone then quickly changed their position.
    MarsupilamiX and JeepBB like this.
    03-06-15 07:40 AM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Yup, but it'll take time to make the user experience at least "similar", they have to rebrand the whole UI.

    Interesting article, slightly OT but not that much since it's clear that BlackBerry strategy is about "connected objects", not only smartphones.
    Samsung Galaxy S6, HTC One M9 will support MirrorLink as Android Auto alternative | PCWorld
    The point here is that there might be "similar" services and offerings made by Samsung (and others, including consortiums and alliances) to strengthen their independence V.S Google.
    Here, we're talking about Connected Car Consortium; I'll let you jump at the members page : Member List | MirrorLink
    Concerning the first paragraph:
    On parle de la meme chose, monsieur Superfly_FR?

    I would kill the BB10 Android runtime, would split the phone into 2 partitions, and would run one OS per partition, with Balance being the barrier and "switch".

    What you then would do, is to reskin Android on the consumer partition as well, to make a bit more similar to BB10? (I would have just taken Cyanogenmod or Vanilla Android to be honest)?

    Second paragraph:
    Big member list.
    I see BlackBerry on there.
    I don't know enough about that market and the possible implications to say something intelligent
    03-06-15 07:42 AM
  19. JeepBB's Avatar
    [QUOTE=MarsupilamiX;11437128]What about a Balance Version, where the consumer side is Android, and business side is BB10?
    Would that work "on the fly"?

    /QUOTE]

    It might work for me, but I can't speak for Google!

    I have a vague recollection that only one OS can be on an OHA device, and that it must boot into Android. IIRC, Google even specifies that the little green robot must be displayed and for how long during boot, but I'm not an Android guy so I may have misremembered.

    So, the Balance solution might not fly.

    Edit: Birdman's post seems to confirm that won't fly. Pity.
    MarsupilamiX and Superfly_FR like this.
    03-06-15 07:43 AM
  20. anon1727506's Avatar
    What about a Balance Version, where the consumer side is Android, and business side is BB10?
    Would that work "on the fly"?
    Combine that with BlackBerry's virtual provisioned dual sim solution, and you just made BlackBerry interesting for BYOD and consumers again?

    Having 2 phone numbers in only one phone, and switching to the Android side when you go home after the job is done, should also be something you can easily sell to business people (and I don't just mean suits. Everybody who has a Job where communicating or working with one's smartphone is an integral part of it, falls in that category. Having 2 phones is kinda annoying, but only having one phone number for private and business isn't that much better. But what about one phone, with BB10 for business and the same phone also has Android for the after hours, while at the same time also offering 1 phone number per OS partition? SaaS and Hardware, enhancing sales of each other through halo effects. Also applicable in emerging markets)

    If something like that would even work, consumers might never experience BB10 though, as they don't have access to Balance...
    Maybe make Balance a consumer service for a reasonable one time fee?

    I am thinking pretty outside the box with that one...



    With my "solution", you could please the privacy sensitive and tinfoil hat crowd as well *rotfl*
    I think someone else was talking about using QNX to be the base OS and then have it run both BB10 and Android... which in theory they could probably do. If that wasn't an issue with the Android Handset Alliance... But then what kind of performance and battery life would you have from such a device? How much R&D, Testing, Certifications..... would it take?

    I think what BlackBerry is working towards with the "BlackBerry Experience" is what we are going to get. Samsung might build some BlackBerry "inspired" devices for enterprise users - QWERTY Devices. But they'll be Android Devices with either just the "BlackBerry Experience" or a combination of KNOX and the "Experience". I see no reason to release these suites and also work on building some new dual booting system. A BlackBerry running pure Android, might be in the works as a way to showcase the "BlackBerry Experience" on Android devices....
    03-06-15 07:46 AM
  21. JeepBB's Avatar
    I think someone else was talking about using QNX to be the base OS and then have it run both BB10 and Android... which in theory they could probably do. If that wasn't an issue with the Android Handset Alliance... But then what kind of performance and battery life would you have from such a device? How much R&D, Testing, Certifications..... would it take?

    I think what BlackBerry is working towards with the "BlackBerry Experience" is what we are going to get. Samsung might build some BlackBerry "inspired" devices for enterprise users - QWERTY Devices. But they'll be Android Devices with either just the "BlackBerry Experience" or a combination of KNOX and the "Experience". I see no reason to release these suites and also work on building some new dual booting system. A BlackBerry running pure Android, might be in the works as a way to showcase the "BlackBerry Experience" on Android devices....
    Yes, I reckon your para 2 is the most likely outcome. It certainly fits with the recent Samsung/Blackberry announcements.
    03-06-15 07:51 AM
  22. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Doubt it. I recall this going down last summer:
    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/...droid-devices/
    Huawei planned to release a dual boot Android & Windows Phone then quickly changed their position.
    They had to fight 2 parties though. BlackBerry would only have to fight one.
    Maybe, just maybe, BlackBerry has some patents or software to at least have a tiny bit of leverage?

    BlackBerry could also just do the Samsung.
    Now, let me explain "doing the Samsung".
    I think everyone who's older than 20, and has an interest in smartphones/tech, should remember what happened back then when the OG iPhones and Galaxies launched.
    Samsung just ripped off the design, made boat loads of cash, and later paid some money because od law suits they lost. But, Samsung bought a lot of time with that move. Law suits take time. And only because you lose in one instance, doesn't mean that you can't make an appeal.

    Basically, what I am saying is that BlackBerry just could not give an eff, load the whole Google Service Suite alongside with Android and BB10 on their phones to dual boot, and pray that they either won't lose too much money in the law suits, or that it actually works out and they win the law suits or that they make enough money in the meantime and that "it was worth it".

    Yes, this sounds incredibly stupid, I know it. It probably is. But as I said, the brainstorming is kinda relaxing.

    Another idea I had... Isn't there an easy way out there to load Google services/markets on Cyanogenmod/alternative ROMs?
    Could there be a legal loop hole, if BlackBerry ships an Alternative Rom without Google Services, but also loads an easy accessible installation wizard onto their phones?


    I think someone else was talking about using QNX to be the base OS and then have it run both BB10 and Android... which in theory they could probably do. If that wasn't an issue with the Android Handset Alliance... But then what kind of performance and battery life would you have from such a device? How much R&D, Testing, Certifications..... would it take?

    I think what BlackBerry is working towards with the "BlackBerry Experience" is what we are going to get. Samsung might build some BlackBerry "inspired" devices for enterprise users - QWERTY Devices. But they'll be Android Devices with either just the "BlackBerry Experience" or a combination of KNOX and the "Experience". I see no reason to release these suites and also work on building some new dual booting system. A BlackBerry running pure Android, might be in the works as a way to showcase the "BlackBerry Experience" on Android devices....
    Now let me be creative and stop being so negative
    anon1727506 and LuvULongTime like this.
    03-06-15 07:57 AM
  23. menshawy's Avatar
    There is no smoke without fire.. The moment BlackBerry announced that they are bringing the Hub and other native BlackBerry 10 apps across platform, I immediately thought of the possibility of BlackBerry making fully-powered Android phones because they already coded the Hub and the other apps for Android.

    Ditching BlackBerry 10 however would be weird and sad
    03-06-15 08:02 AM
  24. ubizmo's Avatar
    Another idea I had... Isn't there an easy way out there to load Google services/markets on Cyanogenmod/alternative ROMs?
    There must be. I have, in addition to my Passport, a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod, and it comes pre-loaded with Google Play, Google Apps, etc.

    There's no little green robot at bootup either; no mention of Android at all, in fact.
    03-06-15 08:24 AM
  25. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    There must be. I have, in addition to my Passport, a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod, and it comes pre-loaded with Google Play, Google Apps, etc.

    There's no little green robot at bootup either; no mention of Android at all, in fact.
    Was pretty sure about that one.
    Thanks for confirming.

    Over one billion Android users worldwide don't care. Any company uses your data to their advantage.
    But app permissions help.
    ^
    iOS/BB10/rooted Android with xposed and xprivacy

    Having access to the Firefox Browser with Ghostery and Noscript/adblock does as well though (at least a little)
    ^
    Android/iOS/BlackBerry (not sure about BB10, I just assumed. Actually, does flash work on BB10, if you do the Android Firefox method? )
    03-06-15 08:33 AM
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