04-12-15 02:41 PM
83 1234
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  1. nhanken's Avatar
    Exactly. They can't decrypt the messages.

    This is not a secret. The governments complaining about it has been pretty much everywhere lately.
    You actually believe everything that Apple and the US government tell you??

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 08:27 PM
  2. Q10Bold's Avatar
    You actually believe everything that Apple and the US government tell you??

    Posted via CB10
    At least they(Apple) are telling us they cant. But BlackBerry is showing us another side...

    Hmm it's the first time I say something 'good' about apple.

    Posted via Q10Bold
    Last edited by Q10Bold; 04-07-15 at 11:26 PM.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    04-07-15 08:48 PM
  3. Glenn Biddle's Avatar
    Yeah Apple is completely secure. That's why all the G8 leaders use Apple for all their official communications.
    Oh wait that's right non of them use All, they all use Blackberries.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Glenn Biddle; 04-07-15 at 10:56 PM.
    Kimberella likes this.
    04-07-15 10:45 PM
  4. LazyEvul's Avatar
    Yeah Apple is completely secure. That's why all the G8 leaders use Apple for all their official communications.
    Oh wait that's right non of them use All, they all use Blackberries.

    Posted via CB10
    No one is arguing that the iPhone is hackproof. But the fact is BBM's encryption, out of the box, is worse than that of iMessage (and WhatsApp, for that matter). Once you tack on things like BBM Protected or a BES, that might change, but those things cost money - both iMessage and WhatsApp are free services.
    04-07-15 11:00 PM
  5. Glenn Biddle's Avatar
    No one is arguing that the iPhone is hackproof. But the fact is BBM's encryption, out of the box, is worse than that of iMessage (and WhatsApp, for that matter). Once you tack on things like BBM Protected or a BES, that might change, but those things cost money - both iMessage and WhatsApp are free services.
    Well I guess the moral of the story is if you're going to be a criminal or someone who needs their privacy, don't be a cheap get BBM protected, for rest of us, who cares. I pity the agent who waists his time going through my mail.

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 11:12 PM
  6. Q10Bold's Avatar
    Well I guess the moral of the story is if you're going to be a criminal or someone who needs their privacy, don't be a cheap get BBM protected, for rest of us, who cares. I pity the agent who waists his time going through my mail.

    Posted via CB10
    How do you know that the criminals in the articel wasn't on BES, or BBM Protected? I hope they was using standard BBM, but who knows...

    Posted via Q10Bold
    04-07-15 11:29 PM
  7. Glenn Biddle's Avatar
    How do you know that the criminals in the articel wasn't on BES, or BBM Protected? I hope they was using standard BBM, but who knows...

    Posted via Q10Bold
    If you have any evidence please put up or shut up , as the saying goes

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 11:42 PM
  8. Q10Bold's Avatar
    If you have any evidence please put up or shut up , as the saying goes

    Posted via CB10
    Hey, why do you insult me?
    Stop be a child and troll please!
    Here is the articel:
    BlackBerry Messenger helps uncover a Brazilian corruption scandal
    And now, read it again and answer me(without your childish behavior):
    How do you know that the criminals on this articel wasn't on BES, or BBM Protected? I hope they was using standard BBM, but who knows...

    OR give me a proof they was using standard BBM without Protected or on BES...

    Because I dont have any proof they was on BES, Standard BBM or Protected...

    ....and now you hopefully know what I mean!
    ivaylo likes this.
    04-08-15 12:05 AM
  9. Glenn Biddle's Avatar
    Hey, why do you insult me?
    Stop be a child and troll please!
    Here is the articel:
    BlackBerry Messenger helps uncover a Brazilian corruption scandal
    And now, read it again and answer me(without your childish behavior):
    How do you know that the criminals on this articel wasn't on BES, or BBM Protected? I hope they was using standard BBM, but who knows...

    OR give me a proof they was using standard BBM without Protected or on BES...

    Because I dont have any proof they was on BES, Standard BBM or Protected...

    ....and now you hopefully know what I mean!
    So you just want to spread FUD through innuendo, there has never been any indication that BlackBerry Protected has ever been breached but yet you you want to insinuate that it has. I'm sorry if you feel insulted, I was only asking for you to back up your insinuations with evidence.

    Posted via CB10
    rthonpm and FairlightRacing like this.
    04-08-15 12:23 AM
  10. BCITMike's Avatar
    So what would Apple's reply be to the Federal court should they be asked to hand over data for an investigation? We can't comply because since ios8 and you'll have to go about getting the information another way? Lol. Yeah right...that will fly.
    Fact of the matter is your iPhone running iOS 8 is no more secure than my BlackBerry (10 or BES). Should you choose to take at face value what Apple is telling you about iOS 8 feel free.

    They laugh at my because I'm different; I laugh at them because they're all the same. 
    Because it is possible, I'm sure the NSA would step up and do it for them. The Snowden files reveal that they didn't need warrants or Apple's permission for years, they had iOS thoroughly hacked. The warrant is just cover if they want to go to Court and prosecute.
    04-08-15 03:34 AM
  11. BCITMike's Avatar
    Hey, why do you insult me?
    Stop be a child and troll please!
    Here is the articel:
    BlackBerry Messenger helps uncover a Brazilian corruption scandal
    And now, read it again and answer me(without your childish behavior):
    How do you know that the criminals on this articel wasn't on BES, or BBM Protected? I hope they was using standard BBM, but who knows...

    OR give me a proof they was using standard BBM without Protected or on BES...

    Because I dont have any proof they was on BES, Standard BBM or Protected...

    ....and now you hopefully know what I mean!
    It's really simple. When a regular BBM is sent, it is sent through BlackBerry servers where it is buffered until it can be delivered to the recipient. At the very least, it has to be on their servers until its delivered. The keys are created by BlackBerry, so they have them and can decrypt them. In an ongoing investigation, I'm sure its trivial to retain copies for legal proceedings with a few button presses. Whether BlackBerry keeps all records indefinitely or hours, who knows. But it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I have no problem with this as long as they take care of protecting it (ie, no iCloud/Sony-like hacks) and require a warrant before handing it over. *cough* Think of the children! *cough*

    To answer how we know its not BBM Protected:
    BBM Protected - Canada
    Messages between BBM Protected users are encrypted using a PGP like model. The sender and recipient have unique public/private encryption and signing keys.
    These keys are generated on the device, by the FIPS 140-2 certified cryptographic library, and are controlled by the enterprise.
    BBM and BlackBerry are not involved in brokering the key exchanges, so at no time are they stored within the BlackBerry infrastructure.
    FairlightRacing likes this.
    04-08-15 03:48 AM
  12. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Great article. Should convince the ones who promoted the "security" and "encryption" of BBM to better shut up...
    04-08-15 04:31 AM
  13. rthonpm's Avatar
    Consumer level BBM was never intended to have the same level of security as BES connected BBM. BlackBerry selling devices to consumers is no different than Microsoft selling a 'Home' version of Windows with group policy and Active Directory settings pulled out: it's not intended for the same audience.

    WhatsApp and iMessage are both much newer products without a burden of legacy support like BBM has to deal with. We'll likely see changes to BBM, but no messaging platform will ever be bulletproof.

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-15 05:25 AM
  14. nuff_said's Avatar
    Because it is possible, I'm sure the NSA would step up and do it for them. The Snowden files reveal that they didn't need warrants or Apple's permission for years, they had iOS thoroughly hacked. The warrant is just cover if they want to go to Court and prosecute.
    Snowden's information is groundbreaking as to what our governments have access to, and how they can obtain it. Unfortunately most people don't grasp the severity of where this is going. The standard response from most people on this board, and some in my circle of friends, is, "I have nothing to hide so why care?"
    I really feel for Snowden because he did something he expected to have more repercussions than it currently does, and all it cost him was his country, family, and freedom.
    Again I'm not gullible enough to believe Apple, Google, or even BlackBerry for that matter will not comply publicly, or behind close doors, their cooperation with governments. Anyone who believes these three players do not allow governments access to their servers on demand for matters of security are simply not aware of all the facts. For the everyday Joe using iMessage or BBM the government probably doesn't care to spy on you, but that doesn't mean it can't be done because you're running iOS8 or a BES server.

    They laugh at my because I'm different; I laugh at them because they're all the same. 
    04-08-15 07:57 AM
  15. Shanerredflag's Avatar
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-41182
    Appears a warrant was used...sorry if already shared.

    Classically Posted.
    Corbu and MarsupilamiX like this.
    04-08-15 08:27 AM
  16. Shanerredflag's Avatar
    Great article. Should convince the ones who promoted the "security" and "encryption" of BBM to better shut up...
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-41182 perhaps have a read, then follow own advice?

    Classically Posted.
    Corbu likes this.
    04-08-15 08:28 AM
  17. nhanken's Avatar
    Simple... if anyone is going to be doing any sort of things like this via electronic communications, it doesn't matter whether it's iMessage, WhatsApp, Viber, BBM or even BBM protected (unless you're the key holder)... just do yourself a favour and go into the middle of the Sahara desert or the Amazon rainforest and have both parties strip naked and do business there instead because that would give you a 99.999% hack proof just pray that the NSA is not spying on you with one of its satellites or robotic beasts.

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-15 09:05 AM
  18. BigAl_BB9900's Avatar
    I recently attended a Mobile Security / MDM seminar (in the UK), and the high level explanation we were given (I'm not a techie, so I don't know the technical ins and outs of this stuff) is that law enforcement can access/decrypt iMessage Encryption and similar from other providers (of course, when they have a warrant, etc), but the problem is that the decryption takes so much computing power that law enforcement are then limited to how many messages they can decrypt (as law enforcement only has a finite amount of tin to run the decryption processes).

    Does that make any sense to you chaps?

    [fyi - the question was asked by an attendee in reference to investigating financial fraud]
    04-08-15 09:22 AM
  19. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    Can't see any facts that would turn BBM secure. If it was secure no warrant could force them to cooperate. Why the heck are they even able to read/intercept chats? Because BBM is not secure.
    You're definitely one of the guys who should follow my advice.
    04-08-15 09:59 AM
  20. diegonei's Avatar
    BlackBerry Messenger helps uncover a Brazilian corruption scandal

    Very interesting. What do you think?

    HTC One M9 & BlackBerry Z10 via Verizon
    I think we're in for a hell of a hide. If you guys think the Petrobras mess is big, just wait till they start investigating BNDES. That's gonna stink like no one's business!

    And I hope they too have been using BBM. *does the anti-corruption happy dance*

    Ouch!

    "Brazilian law enforcement's access to the chats raises concerns about BBM's confidentiality, especially in light of BlackBerry's tendencies..."
    Bull****. BlackBerry is bound by law to help with investigations.

    The same happend at the time of the London Riots.

    Exactly!

    This is (one of) the advantage(s) of iMessage, Whatsapp, Google Hangouts, Telegram and others over BBM.

    Apple can't tell the Feds what your iMessages say even if they wanted to.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    MORE Bull****. All those companies would too be bound by law to help the investigation.

    It's perfectly encrypted (though it uses a key BlackBerry DOES have access to). Does it matter to us users? NO. Nobody can read our BBM messages. BlackBerry has better stuff to do than read them. And since none of us will get the law coming for our behinds, they won't bother.

    As for BBM being secure of not: BES/BES10/BES12 is what truely makes it hack-proof. We're NOT talking hacks here. Have you heard of BBM being hacked? Have you heard of Whatsapp/iMessages being hacked? MOOT POINT.

    WE'RE.
    NOT.
    TALKING.
    HACKS.
    HERE.

    If the law asks any of those services, they'd have to help too of themselves face legal prosecution.
    Last edited by diegonei; 04-08-15 at 10:48 AM.
    04-08-15 10:31 AM
  21. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    Because you provide a password.

    That being said, Apple could theoretically encrypt outgoing messages with a new public key that can be decrypted by Apple. This still wouldn't decrypt old messages, however, only ones encrypted with the new key.
    Your password isn't part of the key. If so, you change your password and all of your info is no longer accessible or icloud needs to convert everything and you must wait and download it all over again. That's simply not happening here. The keys aren't your password and they aren't hardware based. They're being produced by the server. Then passed to the hardware. If both iPhone and iPad have the same account, both have the same set of keys from the server. If you change hardware, the server again will give you the keys for icloud.

    For anyone to say apple doesn't have access to the same keys that it sends to its hardware is complete BS.

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-15 11:53 AM
  22. tchocky77's Avatar
    So you just want to spread FUD through innuendo, there has never been any indication that BlackBerry Protected has ever been breached but yet you you want to insinuate that it has. I'm sorry if you feel insulted, I was only asking for you to back up your insinuations with evidence.

    Posted via CB10
    Glenn. Its not FUD. It's a well documented fact that BBM is no longer the secure solution. And even if it were,...blackberry can just choose to read them for anyone that asks.

    Apple can't.

    WhatsApp can't.

    Those are facts, my man.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    04-08-15 12:28 PM
  23. Glenn Biddle's Avatar
    Glenn. Its not FUD. It's a well documented fact that BBM is no longer the secure solution. And even if it were,...blackberry can just choose to read them for anyone that asks.

    Apple can't.

    WhatsApp can't.

    Those are facts, my man.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Then show me some evidence that BBM Protected has been Breached, explain why all the leaders of the G8 chose BlackBerry phones as their choice for secure communications.

    Posted via CB10
    04-08-15 12:53 PM
  24. Cynycl's Avatar
    Then show me some evidence that BBM Protected has been Breached, explain why all the leaders of the G8 chose BlackBerry phones as their choice for secure communications.

    Posted via CB10
    You aren't even having the same conversation. It doesn't matter if it has been breached. The fact that BB has the info that the Government or "leaders of the G8" and anyone else wants to look at is the issue. BB has the info and will provide it to them.

    His point is that Apple and WhatsApp can't as they don't have the info to give the "leaders of the G8"

    BB retains this info and has it readily available for when Obama or Harper or some third world terrorist dictatorship comes a knocking. No need to breach your own vault when you have the combination.

    It it is breached, its been breached by your beloved G8 Leaders so the greasy lil pukes can spy on each other's communications.

    As for WhatsApp and Apple, I tend to believe the guvamit already has full access to every one and zero on the planet so nothing is secure. Your bubble wrap, force field BB security is also a fantasy. Governments are spying on each other all the time and their chosen BB device isn't preventing that.
    Last edited by Cynycl; 04-08-15 at 01:28 PM.
    04-08-15 01:05 PM
  25. nhanken's Avatar
    You need to get your "brain washed" dude if you think the US government cannot hack into iMessage or WhatsApp.

    Glenn. Its not FUD. It's a well documented fact that BBM is no longer the secure solution. And even if it were,...blackberry can just choose to read them for anyone that asks.

    Apple can't.

    WhatsApp can't.

    Those are facts, my man.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android


    Posted via CB10
    04-08-15 01:12 PM
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