04-12-15 02:41 PM
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  1. trsbbs's Avatar
    BlackBerry Messenger helps uncover a Brazilian corruption scandal

    Very interesting. What do you think?

    HTC One M9 & BlackBerry Z10 via Verizon
    04-06-15 03:53 PM
  2. trsbbs's Avatar
    Ouch!

    "Brazilian law enforcement's access to the chats raises concerns about BBM's confidentiality, especially in light of BlackBerry's tendencies..."



    HTC One M9 & BlackBerry Z10 via Verizon
    kbz1960 and Rjinswand like this.
    04-06-15 03:54 PM
  3. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    BlackBerry/RIM has always complied with legal documents when presented. If they took the time to research what they needed they would have known. My thoughts are the same as always. BBM is NOT secure unless attached to BES with established encryption keys.
    04-06-15 04:16 PM
  4. playpen007's Avatar
    BlackBerry BBM is very secured that is why these crooks used to BBM each other, but it is not really secure when it comes to deal with the Government. No matter what, the Government can force the company to give them access anyway. This is how I understand! It is secure if people use it to do business that do not break the law, but it is unsecured if people use it to do evil things.
    04-06-15 04:24 PM
  5. Jose Casiano's Avatar
    BlackBerry BBM is very secured that is why these crooks used to BBM each other, but it is not really secure when it comes to deal with the Government. No matter what, the Government can force the company to give them access anyway. This is how I understand! It is secure if people use it to do business that do not break the law, but it is unsecured if people use it to do evil things.
    yeah but I'm guessing that they were not using the BBM Secure which does end to end encryption Because Blackberry wouldn't have any access to the information. Isn't that the difference between the regular BBM and BBM Secure.? This news doesn't bother me BB has always attempted to secure the information the most as possible and even at times denied the government. But it seems that the government must have had some good information for Blackberry to comply. so I don't mind I guess.
    04-06-15 04:38 PM
  6. Nitalia's Avatar
    BlackBerry BBM is very secured that is why these crooks used to BBM each other, but it is not really secure when it comes to deal with the Government. No matter what, the Government can force the company to give them access anyway. This is how I understand! It is secure if people use it to do business that do not break the law, but it is unsecured if people use it to do evil things.
    Then it is not secure.. it is even one or the other. BBM is not encrypted like most people think
    04-06-15 05:07 PM
  7. tchocky77's Avatar
    Then it is not secure.. it is even one or the other. BBM is not encrypted like most people think
    Exactly!

    This is (one of) the advantage(s) of iMessage, Whatsapp, Google Hangouts, Telegram and others over BBM.

    Apple can't tell the Feds what your iMessages say even if they wanted to.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    04-06-15 09:15 PM
  8. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    Exactly!

    This is (one of) the advantage(s) of iMessage, Whatsapp, Google Hangouts, Telegram and others over BBM.

    Apple can't tell the Feds what your iMessages say even if they wanted to.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    That's not true. It's what apple says but it's not true. Apple holds the decription keys or there would be no way to restore encrypted files (example: icloud) to a new Apple device.

    Posted via CB10
    04-06-15 09:32 PM
  9. TheBigHarvCombo's Avatar
    Exactly!

    This is (one of) the advantage(s) of iMessage, Whatsapp, Google Hangouts, Telegram and others over BBM.

    Apple can't tell the Feds what your iMessages say even if they wanted to.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    You guys ever heard of this Edward Snowden guy? Check him out. The feds can get any info they want.

    Posted via CB10
    maddie1128 and medic22003 like this.
    04-06-15 09:44 PM
  10. ssbtech's Avatar
    That's not true. It's what apple says but it's not true. Apple holds the decription keys or there would be no way to restore encrypted files (example: icloud) to a new Apple device.
    Apple holds the public keys that encrypt the messages. The private keys that decrypt the message are stored on the device.
    04-06-15 10:50 PM
  11. mvpcrossxover's Avatar
    All these companies still operate under the government's laws. They have to handle over data regardless.

    Nobody is secure. Unless you setup your server and run through there.

    Posted via CB10
    04-06-15 11:23 PM
  12. hoonigan99's Avatar
    Regardless of what other companies say, if a government is trying to get info on a case ALL companies will be legally required to allow access.

    This is a fact of the world we live in, we can secure our data from malicious activity but we cannot hide from the government, if they have reason to investigate you, they will, and they will get everything they demand.

    The solution is simple, don't be a criminal and you won't have to worry.

    BB for Life
    04-06-15 11:50 PM
  13. The Aficionado's Avatar
    Does BlackBerry hold the keys for Bbm protected? I don't think these guys were using Bbm protected on a bes which is what u'd need for real security

    Posted via CB10
    04-06-15 11:54 PM
  14. heading4tomorrow's Avatar
    You guys ever heard of this Edward Snowden guy? Check him out. The feds can get any info they want.

    Posted via CB10

    This is not correct. "Feds" (whoever you are referring to) cannot get data that is transferred over totally randomized encrypted keys, unless the software vendor provided a backdoor to "feds"

    If a messenger works as a packet data and encrypts each message as a single file and decrypts at other end, all "feds" and your ISP sees is random data. BBM is not encrypted, and even BES service encryption is done by a remote computer and then sent to you. There is a reason BB died and opened data to everyone. BES was too difficult to crack or hack into, additionally RIM always protected their user's data. Not anymore, ever since BBRY, it's nothing but completely open to whoever asks to see whatever you do on your phone.

    Just don't fool yourself thinking you can go chat about stealing a car over BBM and it's secure.
    04-07-15 12:24 AM
  15. BCITMike's Avatar
    Exactly!

    This is (one of) the advantage(s) of iMessage, Whatsapp, Google Hangouts, Telegram and others over BBM.

    Apple can't tell the Feds what your iMessages say even if they wanted to.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    That's not true at all. This is "trust me, we won't be bad". They control the key infrastructure and can do all kinds of things without the users' knowledge. Given how NSA has infiltrated their source code, bootloaders, debug tools, coding tools, iCloud, etc, I really doubt this is impossible for it to be done if it hasn't been done already.

    iMessage Privacy

    Quick answers

    What we are not saying: Apple reads your iMessages.
    What we are saying: Apple can read your iMessages if they choose to, or if they are required to do so by a government order.
    There in lies the problem with end to end encryption. Trusting the key infrastructure.
    04-07-15 12:34 AM
  16. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    Apple holds the public keys that encrypt the messages. The private keys that decrypt the message are stored on the device.
    And where do any private keys come from? If I can restore my data on a new phone, I get all my data back including messaging. How is this possible?

    Posted via CB10
    04-07-15 06:05 AM
  17. GoJaysGo's Avatar
    04-07-15 09:33 AM
  18. EchoTango's Avatar
    This is a bit of a confusing mess for most folks who depend on secure or at lease expect privacy when using these messaging tools. With this incident, it provides some incite into Blackberry's level of encryption but also seems to be open to governments when requested. Of course Apple weighs in to say "me to" and "see how easy Blackberry is to hack".

    It's clear from the events that the Brazilian police could not gain notional access to the BBM traffic and was required to request the Brazilian judiciary to issue a court order to provide the decrypted texts for these specific individuals. Blackberry (and I'm sure their local partners or agents) operates within the local laws and therefore was required to comply. If they refused or ignored the court order, then they could be held in contempt and subject to further legal action. This is vastly different to the previous incident with the Indian government where they wanted full access to all email/messaging traffic on a interactive basis. In my view the Brazilian situation is a proper use of the courts because it targets only the potential criminal activity, but the Indian situation casts a wide net to include all and anyone who uses electronic devices to communicate and smacks of Big Brother thinking.

    However, all of this in some ways shows how secure Blackberry is as the police could not decrypt the messages and needed to compel its decryption. It's not clear if Apple was involved but it might indicate that the police can readily read Apple (or Android) traffic without need of their assistance.
    Dmitry Kisselyov likes this.
    04-07-15 10:15 AM
  19. EchoTango's Avatar
    Don't rule out the possibility of disinformation to create a false sense of security. Further, the FBI is not the NSA, but has access to all their "tools" for snooping and decrypting. The FBI can say (with a straight face) they can't read encrypted traffic.....but they know who can !!!
    04-07-15 10:29 AM
  20. tchocky77's Avatar
    Don't rule out the possibility of disinformation to create a false sense of security. Further, the FBI is not the NSA, but has access to all their "tools" for snooping and decrypting. The FBI can say (with a straight face) they can't read encrypted traffic.....but they know who can !!!
    I take it for granted the NSA can read anything. What we know is that iMessage is end-to-end encrypted while non-BES BBM is not. And that blackberry has a well-documented history of cooperating with the authorities up to and including "descrambling" BBM'S. While Apple, as of iOS 8, cannot read your iMessages. Even if they wanted to.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    04-07-15 05:12 PM
  21. ssbtech's Avatar
    And where do any private keys come from? If I can restore my data on a new phone, I get all my data back including messaging. How is this possible?

    Posted via CB10
    Because you provide a password.

    That being said, Apple could theoretically encrypt outgoing messages with a new public key that can be decrypted by Apple. This still wouldn't decrypt old messages, however, only ones encrypted with the new key.
    04-07-15 05:48 PM
  22. LazyEvul's Avatar
    There in lies the problem with end to end encryption. Trusting the key infrastructure.
    Which is why any really good implementation makes sure the keys are dealt with on the device, combined with forward secrecy so that even if someone got their hands on one of the keys, they'd only be able to decrypt a single message.

    This is how WhatsApp works, and so does BBM Protected - although the latter requires an annual subscription, while the former is free. The free version of BBM is falling behind the times - every BBM message is encrypted with a single, global key that is known to BlackBerry. For a supposedly security-conscious company, they really need to step it up.
    04-07-15 06:13 PM
  23. nuff_said's Avatar
    I take it for granted the NSA can read anything. What we know is that iMessage is end-to-end encrypted while non-BES BBM is not. And that blackberry has a well-documented history of cooperating with the authorities up to and including "descrambling" BBM'S. While Apple, as of iOS 8, cannot read your iMessages. Even if they wanted to.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    So what would Apple's reply be to the Federal court should they be asked to hand over data for an investigation? We can't comply because since ios8 and you'll have to go about getting the information another way? Lol. Yeah right...that will fly.
    Fact of the matter is your iPhone running iOS 8 is no more secure than my BlackBerry (10 or BES). Should you choose to take at face value what Apple is telling you about iOS 8 feel free.

    They laugh at my because I'm different; I laugh at them because they're all the same. 
    04-07-15 06:16 PM
  24. LazyEvul's Avatar
    So what would Apple's reply be to the Federal court should they be asked to hand over data for an investigation? We can't comply because since ios8 and you'll have to go about getting the information another way? Lol. Yeah right...that will fly.
    It will fly, because they physically don't have access to the info, nor the keys to it. You can't ask for something they don't have. It'd be like asking BlackBerry to hand over the contents of a BES server.
    04-07-15 06:24 PM
  25. tchocky77's Avatar
    So what would Apple's reply be to the Federal court should they be asked to hand over data for an investigation? We can't comply...
    Exactly. They can't decrypt the messages.

    This is not a secret. The governments complaining about it has been pretty much everywhere lately.
    04-07-15 08:07 PM
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