09-29-13 11:18 PM
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  1. RADEoN1337's Avatar
    What I think they do is trim up the company to reduce costs, manufacturer less hardware to avoid a stockpile, and don't compete against android and iPhone. Less units sold means a smaller workforce. They're eating the first inventory, and next run will be substantially less. Now they have to learn how to be profitable again, and then can make out.

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-13 12:48 AM
  2. GiggleGoddess's Avatar
    Thanks for posting! This seems like positive news

    ~Posted via CB10 on my Sleek and Sexy Z10~
    09-28-13 01:04 AM
  3. SK122387's Avatar
    The announcement of the Z30 was little more than a whisper.

    Is that a normal way to launch a flagship device?

    If BlackBerry hadn't done as backwards stuff like this before, I'd be surprised. But they have, so I've come to see that obscure marketing/announcements/launches are par for the course.

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-13 05:59 AM
  4. NYC10065's Avatar
    The problem is, without popular apps, BBRY won't need to exit the consumer market, they'll simply be pushed out.

    Much of the strength in BBRY over the past few years has been in Southeast Asia (Indonesia in particular) and Africa (South Africa, Nigeria, etc). Those are largely consumer markets where the broad emerging consumer class was seeking a cheap form of communications (BBM) with just a few frills (Facebook, camera, perhaps Twitter and a few other apps). That has changed with the arrival of lower cost Android devices which offer cheap communications using small amounts of data (Whatsapp) similar in pricing to BBM and a vast array of consumer options.

    When you have the company saying they want to focus on the "prosumer" and the MD for Europe and the Middle East saying that they aren't abandoning the "consumer" market because that represents 80% of their sales, you are left wondering what the strategy really is.

    With a dwindling number of subscribers, last reported at 60 million and change, and anemic overall smartphone sales (3.7M in a quarter which would have been a day's worth of sales for Apple during the iPhone 5S/5C launch weekend), you can just imagine what is happening. If the MD's figure is correct, the potential so-called "pro-sumer" market is around 12M (20% of the approximately 60M reported subscriber base). Even if you grow that base by 100 or 200 percent, you're looking at no more than 36M users.
    Last edited by NYC10065; 09-28-13 at 10:36 AM.
    randall2580 likes this.
    09-28-13 09:01 AM
  5. xiaohuaxing's Avatar
    Incidentally, assuming Blackberry does continue to manufacture smartphones in 2014, exactly what niche are they going to fill that can't already be filled by the market leaders in the smartphone segment? What applications are developers going to create that those developers won't create for mobile operating systems with much larger market share?
    I hear you, but I still think some of the scenarios they've brought up in the past are still great ideas.

    For example, doctors in hospitals with phones that can automatically retrieve patient info or test results, plus with BBM (do they still use pagers like in Greys Anatomy? lol). I'm sure other phones are capable of one day doing that, but so far nobody has, and nobody will be able to focus on it like BB. iPhone doesn't have NFC, and Androids don't have close to the reputation for security that BB does. Even if one of those makers were to try to implement this, it will be just add-on apps, it would never be the core focus and having a large non-professional market share is not going to help that much. If BB seriously decides to go that way, they can integrate it into their system because they don't need to worry about selling this to Joe Schmoe. That's just one example where security is paramount, another is police forces. There are some cool thing to be done, none of them will make BB like Apple or Google but that's why they call it niche...
    09-28-13 03:25 PM
  6. playbookster's Avatar
    And look at that, selling directly to the consumer. So much for pulling out of the consumer market eh?
    09-28-13 05:33 PM
  7. cgk's Avatar
    And look at that, selling directly to the consumer. So much for pulling out of the consumer market eh?
    Trying to flog off inventory carriers will not take from your website isn't *quite* the same thing as having a focus.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-28-13 05:47 PM
  8. playbookster's Avatar
    Trying to flog off inventory carriers will not take from your website isn't *quite* the same thing as having a focus.
    There is more proof they are not leaving the consumer market than there is saying they are.
    09-28-13 05:49 PM
  9. heymaggie's Avatar
    If you see a soft launch of a flagship device i.e. with no real launch event, no ads, no carrier push then that means they are probably leaving the consumer market. Once you let your consumer users migrate to another platform then you've probably lost them for good. Every day, thousands of Blackberry users stroll into a carrier store to see what kind of upgrade they are eligible for. If you're not willing to show them your flagship hardware at the point of sale then you're done.
    09-28-13 06:01 PM
  10. cgk's Avatar
    There is more proof they are not leaving the consumer market than there is saying they are.
    Yes because you are going to let the cat out of the bag before you have sold off almost a billion in inventory.

    Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk 4
    09-28-13 06:02 PM
  11. hsianloon's Avatar
    No one wants to carry two phones these days..sure blackberry is imagined to the "perfect business man phone" but fails at many other things.

    It's all about all in one these days. Notice the cheap cameras and stand alone mp3s dying out? One function devices are going the way of the dodo. Look at z1 and Lumia 1050s photo qualities, they're vastly as good if not better than the below 250 dollar cameras you find at shops

    From my smokin' Barbeque10
    09-28-13 06:58 PM
  12. M65c02's Avatar
    That financial "reporting" at the end is pretty poor calibre: Most valuations actually put BBRY as worth much more. $4.7B is the value of the offer on the table from Fairfax's group, not necessarily the actual value . . .
    No, the financial reporting clearly states what many have known and openly stated since June--and hypothesized much, much earlier. The reporting is fine, although it had been very aggressive in the Spring, it is the actual BB financial results that are of the very poorest caliber. As per the $4.7B being low, quite to the contrary. This figure is almost exactly as I've seen experts (and some good novices) value prior to, and now even appears high after, September's certified results. Given these super ugly results, the share price is/was clearly being supported by the prospects of an (over-valued) offer to buy BB. Without more or a withdrawal by Fairfax (w/o replacement), BB shares will had south fast. [Note: I thought that everyone that had drunk the Kool Aid was gone. Consider being careful about obscure and/or out-of-date evaluations most likely composed with a conflict of interest to justify holding BB stock on a dream. Translation: Anything above $4.5B is based on pure speculation ... but, you never know, people win the lottery every day too.]

    I agree that most accounts put BlackBerry higher than that, but in reality you are only ad valuable as what people are willing to pay for you... for BlackBerry that is $4.7B
    I think that you better check, or recheck, your sources for conflicts of interest and/or use of the proper/current financial statements. If a sale doesn't occur soon, or Fairfax falls through, BB will dive to $7+ upon that news and, soon after, be crushed to $5 before you wink twice. There simply is no available free cash flows being generated for aggregated operations....so we're left with patents, some diminishing service fees, asset liquidation, and pure speculation. Having said that, a tech company, the Carlyle Group, of a sloppy hedge fund--I suppose--could still show interest but I really think a lot of boys were waiting for October and a price of $7-8.

    $4.7 billion is indeed the offer on the table. Unfortunately the current market cap is more than $0.5 billion less. BBRY isn't Motorola, there isn't going to be any bidding war over its patents. If a higher offer comes, I don't see it exceeding $10/share.
    Yes, Yes, Yes, tough to get this old dog over $10 and, from my position, $9 is questionable but a few pennies more might be squeezed for the shareholders. The longer this process extends past October, however, surely the more likely BB's value drops. We'll just wait and see if someone else wants to jump in by mid-October....but expect BB operations to be nearly dormant--mostly dumping inventory--until 2014.

    I think "prosumer" is a code word for "we're going to pull out of the smartphone manufacturing business at the end of 2013 but we don't want to totally kill our pre-holiday 2013 sales by formally saying that". Incidentally, assuming Blackberry does continue to manufacture smartphones in 2014, exactly what niche are they going to fill that can't already be filled by the market leaders in the smartphone segment? What applications are developers going to create that those developers won't create for mobile operating systems with much larger market share?
    Almost too painful to comment on, so I won't. The truth sometimes hurts the ones we love most.

    People can't seem to grasp this concept. They've got a stockpile of these things. They're worth $0 if they're sitting in a warehouse, destined for a landfill. The majority of potential buyers would flee if BB stated "these are our last consumer devices, after that, we're out". . . ...
    Stock maybe destined for a charitable organization, GA, or liquidator. Right on all counts.

    I don't believe a damn thing they say anymore
    If that's a motion, I second it.

    No one wants to carry two phones these days..sure blackberry is imagined to the "perfect business man phone" but fails at many other things.
    Wrong on the second (right on the first) point, some non-owners may hold the perception of OS10 phones being a "perfect business man's phone" but GONG. Sorry, the truth is the Z was an absolute dismal failure (for a business man requiring a tool) upon delivery in March and is still short of the reliability so required here in September. ... But I may understand your point also to mean that the OS10 certainly does not have the frills to compete (at all) with the 1.5+B IOS and Droid phone consumers, so we'll simply relegate it to the smaller 50mm potential business person's phone market. Either way, the OS10 phones today fail to meet the expectations of any conceivable target market that would keep it in business. (BTW, it never ceases to amaze me how many people, here, are complimentary/supportive of the OS10 phones while stating that they also own an Apple or Droid--worse write their comment on CB from their Apple.) So, to the thread's title, BB has little choice but to play a game until its sale is consummated, then I wouldn't hold my breath for any new phones.
    Last edited by M65c02; 09-30-13 at 07:01 AM.
    Air Force One, mset and JeepBB like this.
    09-28-13 08:01 PM
  13. kevinnugent's Avatar
    They didn't say they were leaving the consumer market, they said they were going to move to prosumer. Professional consumer. The public will have access to their devices but they won't be made on the same scale as they are today. BlackBerry is returning to where they began.

    Posted via CB10
    Great. Everyone needs beepers these days. Maybe they could make buggy whips too!
    09-28-13 08:05 PM
  14. M65c02's Avatar
    Great. Everyone needs beepers these days. Maybe they could make buggy whips too!
    Kevin, I'm sure that you are somewhat of an acquired taste but I've come to enjoy your quick wit.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    09-28-13 10:20 PM
  15. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Kevin, I'm sure that you are somewhat of an acquired taste but I've come to enjoy your quick wit.
    Some people say they enjoy half of what I say. I guess that makes me a half wit.
    TGR1 and kbz1960 like this.
    09-28-13 10:22 PM
  16. Blacklatino's Avatar
    I don't believe a damn thing they say anymore

    Sent from my Note 2 using the CB Forums app
    I make it a habit of taking everything with a grain of salt. No need to be concerned at the moment, everyone is talking- except BlackBerry. At this point, nothing to say or to dispute.
    09-29-13 12:11 AM
  17. NYC10065's Avatar
    They didn't say they were leaving the consumer market, they said they were going to move to prosumer. Professional consumer. The public will have access to their devices but they won't be made on the same scale as they are today. BlackBerry is returning to where they began.

    Posted via CB10
    Since BB10 was supposed to be about the "consumer", what is their product for the "prosumer"?

    As a consumer product, the Z10 failed miserably so now they're launching a big Z10 in the form of the Z30. Is that their "prosumer" device? I don't quite understand what they're getting at because the rhetoric and the reality don't seem to match. I frankly don't know a single business executive running around with a phablet. In the past year, most of my clients are using iPhone, a small number Android and a tiny handful BB (mostly BBOS).

    So are we to understand then that the Z30 is consistent with BBRY's new stated objective of going after the "prosumer"?
    Last edited by NYC10065; 09-29-13 at 04:57 PM.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    09-29-13 08:58 AM
  18. TGR1's Avatar
    So are we to understand then that the Z30 is consistent with BBRY's new stated objective of going after the "prosumer"?
    Well, it is possible that BBRY is using this soft launch of the Z30 to evaluate which way to go if they intend to severely prune their product line. If despite the pathetic support of the launch it sells relatively well, that may be the BlackBerry of the future, much like the flagship Androids.
    09-29-13 09:07 AM
  19. NYC10065's Avatar
    Well, it is possible that BBRY is using this soft launch of the Z30 to evaluate which way to go if they intend to severely prune their product line. If despite the pathetic support of the launch it sells relatively well, that may be the BlackBerry of the future, much like the flagship Androids.
    You may have hit on something there because the Z30 launch was a complete joke and the lack of marketing support since its big reveal has been pathetic. It seems to me at least that the brain trust at BBRY almost felt it was too late to stop the Z30 so decided to just launch it whether or not it fit any strategic rationale.
    09-29-13 09:14 AM
  20. M65c02's Avatar
    Well, it is possible that BBRY is using this soft launch of the Z30 to evaluate which way to go if they intend to severely prune their product line. If despite the pathetic support of the launch it sells relatively well, that may be the BlackBerry of the future, much like the flagship Androids.
    You may have hit on something there because the Z30 launch was a complete joke and the lack of marketing support since its big reveal has been pathetic. It seems to me at least that the brain trust at BBRY almost felt it was too late to stop the Z30 so decided to just launch it whether or not it fit any strategic rationale.
    Now I'm convinced that there is still some Kool Aid being passed in the crowd. Okay, maybe only semantics: It is the purchaser of BB, however, that will use the sales statistics for the Z30 to evaluate whether it should continue production or, more likely, spend the effort to sell off excess inventory. BB mostly ceased to operate as the company we knew (no later than) when it announced its intention to sell (ahh, strategic alternatives) then definitely ratcheted back to idle when the Fairfax interest became formal with a "letter of intent." Virtually all employees of BB today are simply positioning themselves to serve their immediate best interests in light of such sale--whether to Fairfax or some other entity.

    Mr/Ms. New York City was pointing out, in a nice manner, that TGR may have hit on something--but I think NYC may have meant hit on his head. NYC... then corrects by stating what is very likely close to the truth. The Z10 and Z30 were designed to emulate the Samsung tandem and the cogs for such had been set in motion with a batch of the Z30's cast early this summer. This was about the time management knew definitively what everyone else strongly suspected, that BB had to seek a purchaser to have any hope of survival in the next year. These Z30s were released in haste--and, indeed, w/even less marketing than the Z10--just a few days before the pre-release of financials that itself was governed by the imminent Fairfax announcement--all to come prior to release of the formal financials this past week. This allowed for some Z30 sales but, perhaps more so, this timing helps to cover some tracks--if the Fairfax deal doesn't fly--regarding still some very ugly accounting to come. Of course no significant expenditures or change in direction will occur prior to a formal close to the BB sale. (The quicker this happens the better the chance of seeing OS10 survive--in some form--and maybe even BB produce another phone.)
    09-29-13 12:02 PM
  21. Zirak's Avatar
    I personally am waiting until they get a bit cheaper. If I could snap up a couple of bb10 devices, unlocked, from BlackBerry for $200 each then I would be all over it. Another pair of playbooks would be nice too.

    Posted via CB10
    09-29-13 03:13 PM
  22. lnichols's Avatar
    Typical BlackBerry failure in messaging. Of course they waited until all the media ran with that story line and allowed the stock to tank for Watsa before issuing a half *** correction.

    Posted via CB10
    09-29-13 04:26 PM
  23. Solar 77's Avatar
    The fact that the company had to clarify their plans moving forward is the problem. Whenever they have a press release or something, people are just like "so what now?" instead of "oh there".

    Posted via CB10
    09-29-13 06:19 PM
  24. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    The problem is, without popular apps, BBRY won't need to exit the consumer market, they'll simply be pushed out.

    With a dwindling number of subscribers, last reported at 60 million and change, and anemic overall smartphone sales.
    BlackBerry 10 smartphones use standard data plans unlike the BIS/BES data plans with BlackBerry 7 smartphones. There are no subscribers with standard data plans so subscriber numbers become irrelevant if those subscribers either switch to BlackBerry 10 or they are replaced by new BlackBerry 10 users.

    Posted via CB10 from the BlackBerry Z10
    09-29-13 07:32 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    BlackBerry 10 smartphones use standard data plans unlike the BIS/BES data plans with BlackBerry 7 smartphones. There are no subscribers with standard data plans so subscriber numbers become irrelevant if those subscribers either switch to BlackBerry 10 or they are replaced by new BlackBerry 10 users.

    Posted via CB10 from the BlackBerry Z10
    The problem is that BBOS users aren't switching to BB10 or being replaced by new BB10 users. BlackBerry financial release on Friday confirmed this. BlackBerry knows how many people switch to or use their products just like iOS and Google know, they simply have stopped reporting that information because it is embarrassing.

    Posted via CB10
    09-29-13 08:02 PM
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