07-23-15 05:38 AM
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  1. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    So many things wrong here..
    I work for one of the largest financial services company in the U. S. and no one wants a BB. . Period. Not one person wants a PKB. Not one complained when we switched to IPhones. .

    Via my HTC One M9...
    Exactly!

    Not sure where some people are looking. I guess the phrase "... can't see the forest for the trees... " comes to mind.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX and Coachbulldog like this.
    06-19-15 10:37 AM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    No, the invention of the iPhone actually makes my argument even stronger.

    You are comparing a new innovation like the iPhone (more the OS than the touchscreen form factor itself though), to an old innovation like the Nokia Communicator.

    One had a keyboard in 1996 and revolutionised the smartphone world, the other one had a capacitive touchscreen that allowed you, combined with the OS, to not need a toolbelt, trackpad or stylus to navigate your phone (this was the innovativion, not the phone itself) and revolutionised the smartphone world again in 2007.

    Fast forward a few years coming from 1996, the first BlackBerry phones start to appear. They revolutionised the way emails were delivered ( nothing else though).
    Then came the iPhone.

    There is a chronological order here.
    Just like we had with the VHS and the DvD (or the horse with cart and then later the Truck).
    One invention/innovation (in case of the Communicator and the iPhone, I'd say that both words are correct) leads to another one.
    And, when enough time passed, what once was considered revolutionary and innovative, is simply dead and buried, because the market wanted something better.

    The keyboard (at least our interpretations. If we would talk about a touchscreen, which can change its shape to emulate keyboards and provide tactile feedback, then we would have an even newer innovation, giving us the best of both worlds) outlived its usefulness. Just like the VHS, the musket or the daughty warrior.

    Nobody made something like an iPhone until Apple did it.
    Keyboard phones however, were neither new when BlackBerry made their first phone, nor would they be considered innovative today.
    Just like the revolver became the better musket, the touchscreen became the better keyboard.

    Arguing that the iPhone contradicts one of the most important principles of our economy, (namely that we march from one innovation/invention to the other) is comedic at best and clueless at worst.
    There is a term for things like the keyboard phone, the musket, or the horse with the cart: they are called obsolete.

    And you know what made the keyboard phone obsolete?
    The iPhone.
    There is a movement back to physical controls for items like car radio knobs. Tablets have not replaced Laptops. There is a market for a good top spec PKB phone. People who want a PKB are willing to pay extra. Maybe the PKB smartphone will be sold in limited numbers at a higher price. They should have moved the Classic up market not down market. BlackBerry currently makes the only good portrait PKB phone but if Samsung made a really good PKB phone (no square screen) then perhaps BlackBerry would be in serious trouble. Samsung does not build a phone that will only sell in limited quantities.

    I do think that the Slider will have more appeal than the Passport. I wish it could have been smaller though.

    A relative of mine, has a company smartphone. He is on it constantly because he is in charge of pricing their goods and the prices change constantly . He moved from a 9900 to a Z30 and he loves it. I thought he might miss the PKB but no, he has adapted.
    Forst and foremost , BlackBerry needs a better all touch.
    MarsupilamiX and stavwoz like this.
    06-19-15 10:46 AM
  3. Mausje75's Avatar
    So many things wrong here..
    I work for one of the largest financial services company in the U. S. and no one wants a BB. . Period. Not one person wants a PKB. Not one complained when we switched to IPhones. .

    Via my HTC One M9...
    You asked ALL of your colleagues??? But your company does not represent the world you know.. maybe you do think that.. But trust me it's not...

    There are a lot of people who switched from pkb to vbk... just wants to go back to pkb... I am one off them.. and no, I do not represent the rest off the world. Do your colleagues have a reason that they don't want a BlackBerry? And what "good" reason's do they haven ?

    Posted via my awesome Classic
    06-19-15 10:57 AM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    There is a movement back to physical controls for items like car radio knobs. Tablets have not replaced Laptops. There is a market for a good top spec PKB phone. People who want a PKB are willing to pay extra. Maybe the PKB smartphone will be sold in limited numbers at a higher price. They should have moved the Classic up market not down market. BlackBerry currently makes the only good portrait PKB phone but if Samsung made a really good PKB phone (no square screen) then perhaps BlackBerry would be in serious trouble. Samsung does not build a phone that will only sell in limited quantities.

    I do think that the Slider will have more appeal than the Passport. I wish it could have been smaller though.

    A relative of mine, has a company smartphone. He is on it constantly because he is in charge of pricing their goods and the prices change constantly . He moved from a 9900 to a Z30 and he loves it. I thought he might miss the PKB but no, he has adapted.
    Forst and foremost , BlackBerry needs a better all touch.
    Never did I say that the touchscreen as a whole, replaced the keyboard.
    I am also not a fan of tablets, because I don't see the point of an iPod touch with 10 inches. I use notebooks.
    I am solely talking about the smartphone realm.

    You shouldn't ask yourself why Samsung doesn't make such a phone.
    You should wonder why NOBODY makes such a phone, besides BlackBerry.

    I agree with you that there is a price inelastic part of the market (much less than 1%), who wants a PKB and nothing else. But those would be on BB10 already. No need to make the Android move.

    The Android move would be made to get buyers on board who value the ecosystem more than the keyboard, but might be interested in an ecosystem with keyboard.
    Given the fact that NOBODY bothers to make such a phone in the Android realm, I'd say that BlackBerry must have either had the ultimate epiphany on how to sell those devices, or that they have absolutely no clue if an Android keyboard phone would sell enough units. But BlackBerry must obviously believe that it can't be worse than BB10 sales.

    I agree with the slider being a far better option than the Passport, to make an Android keyboard phone.

    Your last paragraph is probably the standard experience for the vast majority of users, who once had a physical keyboard:
    there's not a lot to miss.
    06-19-15 11:07 AM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    It appears that the BlackBerry Android phone will be all touch for markets like Nigeria where there is a strong brand recognition. I am presuming that it will be forked.

    PS - I also think there is a market for a small sized PKB like the Q10 in the 1% inelastic segment. Android BlackBerry PKB's ? Sure, but only if it is fully Google compatible. To do so would be to be throwing all touch and even the Passport BB10 under the bus.

    If BlackBerry can manage a better Android experience plus enhanced security than offered by the leading Android suppliers then I hope they do.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 06-19-15 at 11:52 AM.
    MarsupilamiX and stavwoz like this.
    06-19-15 11:12 AM
  6. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    It appears that the BlackBerry Android phone will be all touch for markets like Nigeria.

    Posted via CB10
    I heard the rumour of a Z3 Android.
    It's DoA.
    I really can't say more about that.

    There isn't a single phone BlackBerry can produce that would be able to compete with local Android manufacturers in terms of price and performance.

    You know what I think about PKB phones, but an Android PKB phone for around 250$ would be a better option than a Z3.

    And at higher price points, Samsung, HTC and LG will totally destroy any perceived value of a lower end BlackDroid.

    I hope that I am wrong, but BlackBerry has to try to sell high margin devices. And thats means niche and high-end devices.
    06-19-15 11:38 AM
  7. early2bed's Avatar
    [QUOTE=Maksimfa;11728941Those devices were either issued to them, or they bought because of the keyboard. They have no clue what operating system they were running. [/QUOTE]

    Good point. For a lot of people it will simply boil down to "Does it have a keyboard?" and "Can I use apps" (Snapchat, Instagram, Netflix, their bank, whatever).

    Yes? Sold. They won't even know, much less care, that it runs Android.
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    06-19-15 11:38 AM
  8. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I heard the rumour of a Z3 Android.
    It's DoA.
    I really can't say more about that.

    There isn't a single phone BlackBerry can produce that would be able to compete with local Android manufacturers in terms of price and performance.

    You know what I think about PKB phones, but an Android PKB phone for around 250$ would be a better option than a Z3.

    And at higher price points, Samsung, HTC and LG will totally destroy any perceived value of a lower end BlackDroid.

    I hope that I am wrong, but BlackBerry has to try to sell high margin devices. And thats means niche and high-end devices.
    I agree that a high end BB10 strategy makes more sense than a Leap & mid range Classic strategy. Question, can they sell a AOSP BlackBerry PKB and keep run time on their BB10 models?

    Posted via CB10
    Allanon89 likes this.
    06-19-15 12:36 PM
  9. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    There is a movement back to physical controls for items like car radio knobs. Tablets have not replaced Laptops. There is a market for a good top spec PKB phone.
    Based on what? The market is showing quite the opposite. Infotainment systems are all the rage. Hands free UI's with large touchscreen displays are in high demand in the automotive industry. Laptop sales are consistently down while tablet sales are skyrocketing. And no PKB device sells as well as any full touch alternative.

    Penned via Tapatalk
    06-19-15 03:32 PM
  10. cathulu15's Avatar
    Give me physical controls over a crappy touch screen in a car. Touch screens in cars are total garbage!!! Waiting to see what BlackBerry comes up with.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-15 09:14 PM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Based on what? The market is showing quite the opposite. Infotainment systems are all the rage. Hands free UI's with large touchscreen displays are in high demand in the automotive industry. Laptop sales are consistently down while tablet sales are skyrocketing. And no PKB device sells as well as any full touch alternative.

    Penned via Tapatalk
    Not quite what I am saying. Will the BlackBerry become obsolete like the type writer or endure as a niche product appreciated for its intrinsic value like vinyl records.

    Posted via CB10
    06-20-15 12:07 AM
  12. fishlove73's Avatar
    Not quite what I am saying. Will the BlackBerry become obsolete like the type writer or endure as a niche product appreciated for its intrinsic value like vinyl records.

    Posted via CB10
    Bring what ever device you have to my Passport...we will do a head to head test...I'll text, email, call while I'm downloading a movie at the same time. I'll even throw in a couple of massive size doc's to boot with anything running in the background... And we can see what the "vinyl record" does. The Passport is the current flagship for BlackBerry at the moment. I wouldn't quite call it vinyl. And who needs snapchat when Whatsapp, BBM does the same plus a ton more? Redundancy with Apps on Androids are endless...and then on top of all that, it takes awhile to find one that does everything it is supposed to do.

    Sure..Android has 100,000,000,000 apps... but if divide those up in categories....you would have 50 categories. Take off 70% of those which are games and another 25% (unused) or useless and you have a lot less. Take off another % that don't work correctly and are frequently uninstalled / reinstalled etc...yep, using my S4 is still fresh on my mind...it flat out sucked. I'll keep my Passport even though it's "vinyl"because it does what I need it to do better for me.

    ρō┬Єđ bұ mұ Ů ρÚρōЯ┬. 10.3.2.840
    06-20-15 03:36 PM
  13. z3user's Avatar
    Android on Passport? Guess what...

    BlackBerry considering Android for upcoming handset-img_20150621_102109.png

     1 of the 40,000 korean BlackBerry user  3-10-Slider 
    06-20-15 08:22 PM
  14. z3user's Avatar
    Android on Passport? Guess what...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20150621_102109.png 
Views:	435 
Size:	167.2 KB 
ID:	358714

     1 of the 40,000 korean BlackBerry user  3-10-Slider 
    Just in case anyone doubts the source...
    https://mobile.twitter.com/WhiteShar...98225452974080
    It's from the 'dev's' twitter

     1 of the 40,000 korean BlackBerry user  3-10-Slider 
    Attached Thumbnails BlackBerry considering Android for upcoming handset-img_20150621_102721.png  
    06-20-15 08:28 PM
  15. clickitykeys's Avatar
    The Hub worship that has sprung up on this board over the past couple months has been hilarious.
    Why is it hilarious? Have you used the Hub? Do you think Android or iOS have anything remotely comparable?

    The Hub is revered for a reason. It works well.

    Q10/10.3.1.2582
    skibnik likes this.
    06-21-15 02:51 AM
  16. trsbbs's Avatar
    You asked ALL of your colleagues??? But your company does not represent the world you know.. maybe you do think that.. But trust me it's not...

    There are a lot of people who switched from pkb to vbk... just wants to go back to pkb... I am one off them.. and no, I do not represent the rest off the world. Do your colleagues have a reason that they don't want a BlackBerry? And what "good" reason's do they haven ?

    Posted via my awesome Classic
    Good Lord. Go back to school. .
    Im not even going to bother.

    Via my HTC One M9...
    06-21-15 06:23 AM
  17. trsbbs's Avatar
    Give me physical controls over a crappy touch screen in a car. Touch screens in cars are total garbage!!! Waiting to see what BlackBerry comes up with.

    Posted via CB10
    You should really trade in that 57 chevy you know....

    Via my HTC One M9...
    06-21-15 06:24 AM
  18. Mausje75's Avatar
    Good Lord. Go back to school. .
    Im not even going to bother.

    Via my HTC One M9...
    Why did you then??

    I don't know if they want a 39 year old back in their schools...
    BlackBerry considering Android for upcoming handset-gandalf-en-een-half.jpg

    Posted via my awesome Classic
    06-21-15 06:41 AM
  19. southlander's Avatar
    http://mobilesyrup.com/2015/06/12/wh...terrible-idea/

    Agree w/ pretty much everything below :



    Posted via CB10
    Yeah. I don't have high expectations for it being a great success. And yet it is inevitable that they'll try it.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    06-21-15 11:47 AM
  20. lnichols's Avatar
    You're assuming (wrongly I would say) that everybody on the planet that would prefer a PKB is a BlackBerry customer. Do you think that maybe there are a lot of people who would prefer PKB but don't want a BlackBerry? I don't know and wouldn't even venture to guess whether a PKB android phone will sell well, but your logic is flawed at best and I would assume BlackBerry has done some research if they're actually going to be going through with this.

    Posted via CB10
    Hmm. So did BlackBerry not do research from the PlayBook through to BB10 launch that set their direction with BB10? Your logic would dictate they did research on the Passport and Classic, and both appear to be having anemic sales, or they did not start doing research until this Android idea in which case the shareholders should be in Waterloo with pitchforks?!

    BlackBerry's research showed that the Z10 should have been the first phone launched, and they clearly planned to go with all touch for flagship devices with the Z30. The problem is they underestimated the specs the competition would bring to the table, were late to market but still released a device when the competition was about ready to change the market expectations, and they put up a for sale sign killing any chance of a resurrection. Chen came in didn't kill of the Passport and developed the Leap and Classic. Chen said the Classic was needed, but where are the sales to justify not bringing out a Z10/Z30 upgrade? The Classic should be selling like crazy right now based on Chen's "research", but I think we would be hearing about it if it were.

    Posted via Z30
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    06-21-15 08:26 PM
  21. fishlove73's Avatar
    Hmm. So did BlackBerry not do research from the PlayBook through to BB10 launch that set their direction with BB10? Your logic would dictate they did research on the Passport and Classic, and both appear to be having anemic sales, or they did not start doing research until this Android idea in which case the shareholders should be in Waterloo with pitchforks?!

    BlackBerry's research showed that the Z10 should have been the first phone launched, and they clearly planned to go with all touch for flagship devices with the Z30. The problem is they underestimated the specs the competition would bring to the table, were late to market but still released a device when the competition was about ready to change the market expectations, and they put up a for sale sign killing any chance of a resurrection. Chen came in didn't kill of the Passport and developed the Leap and Classic. Chen said the Classic was needed, but where are the sales to justify not bringing out a Z10/Z30 upgrade? The Classic should be selling like crazy right now based on Chen's "research", but I think we would be hearing about it if it were.

    Posted via Z30
    1) you don't know what Chen thinks or what his plan is. Pure speculation.
    2) June 23rd will be telling of sales figures....ATT sales should be included in this one. The last report devices were not losing money so there has been substantial progress made.
    3) Even the year and a half old z30 with less hardware runs better than Most new droids with the latest and greatest because the OS is good. Oh, I know... I'll get the " well, if the OS is so good why are not more people buying argument." My answer is there is not Marketing and sales/ support pushing it. The second part of my answer is teens and young adults want games and snapchat....with privacy be damned in a facebook generation. Say what you will, but at 42 I have yet to see all that many " young professionals" being more productive...at least where I'm at. They would rather be texting their BFF on the clock.....just an observation....you can take it, spin it and argue with it however you wish...I'm just telling you like it is.
    4) A free, junky OS, open software....is not going to "fix" Blackberry. More servers shutting down, celeb photos and people's private lives getting invaded will....along with a lot more marketing, knowledgeable salespeople.

    5) My Passport is smoking fast...IF I'm running BBworld apps or Android apps ....It is seriously a fast productive device....try one, see for yourself rather than just rely on blogs with all kinds of people talking about BB10 without actually experiencing it on a Passport...or even a z30. How many crap Android phones have there been the last 4 yrs....that list is a lengthy one. How many of those devices were bricked trying to remove bloatware? So picking on one device manufacturer consistently.....I just don't understand. At least BB10 you can play with leaked OS's without bricking. IF 90% of Android owners used Odin to get what they wanted.....they would throw their phones away.

    ρō┬Єđ bұ mұ Ů ρÚρōЯ┬. 10.3.2.840
    Andy_bb_king likes this.
    06-21-15 10:48 PM
  22. lnichols's Avatar
    1) you don't know what Chen thinks or what his plan is. Pure speculation.
    2) June 23rd will be telling of sales figures....ATT sales should be included in this one. The last report devices were not losing money so there has been substantial progress made.
    3) Even the year and a half old z30 with less hardware runs better than Most new droids with the latest and greatest because the OS is good. Oh, I know... I'll get the " well, if the OS is so good why are not more people buying argument." My answer is there is not Marketing and sales/ support pushing it. The second part of my answer is teens and young adults want games and snapchat....with privacy be damned in a facebook generation. Say what you will, but at 42 I have yet to see all that many " young professionals" being more productive...at least where I'm at. They would rather be texting their BFF on the clock.....just an observation....you can take it, spin it and argue with it however you wish...I'm just telling you like it is.
    4) A free, junky OS, open software....is not going to "fix" Blackberry. More servers shutting down, celeb photos and people's private lives getting invaded will....along with a lot more marketing, knowledgeable salespeople.

    5) My Passport is smoking fast...IF I'm running BBworld apps or Android apps ....It is seriously a fast productive device....try one, see for yourself rather than just rely on blogs with all kinds of people talking about BB10 without actually experiencing it on a Passport...or even a z30. How many crap Android phones have there been the last 4 yrs....that list is a lengthy one. How many of those devices were bricked trying to remove bloatware? So picking on one device manufacturer consistently.....I just don't understand. At least BB10 you can play with leaked OS's without bricking. IF 90% of Android owners used Odin to get what they wanted.....they would throw their phones away.

    ρō┬Єđ bұ mұ Ů ρÚρōЯ┬. 10.3.2.840
    1. His plan is SAAS. He has said it. Blackberry experience suite is the goal now.

    2. Perhaps you should look at comments after the call in interviews where Chen stated hardware is still not profitable once everything is factored in.

    3. I run a Z30. Great phone. Too bad they didn't build a US version and the company that built it for them ended the relationship at launch making it a dead end phone. Productivity is now in apps, not in the OS. Video, UCM, etc. Are all third party apps.

    4. Agreed. I don't want Android, and if I did I wouldn't rely on BlackBerry for it. Their track record with software is pretty poor which is why I find SAAS focus comical.

    5. OK great. I don't want any PKB device anymore. 9900 was one of the most unreliable BlackBerry devices I ever owned. Stuttering keys and other issues. I see BlackBerry still has these issues with Classic and Passport. I never have to worry about this with my Z30.


    I'm not pushing for Android and will go to iOS the day after BlackBerry announce their first Android device. They don't have the talent or the resources to finish their own OS, much less customize Android and still develop their own. It is the beginning of the end for BB10 when that is announced and I've been neglected and abandoned by BlackBerry enough. Someone else can have my money and Waterloo can go down with the ship for all I care when that happens.

    Posted via Z30
    Coachbulldog likes this.
    06-22-15 07:57 AM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    1) you don't know what Chen thinks or what his plan is. Pure speculation.
    2) June 23rd will be telling of sales figures....ATT sales should be included in this one. The last report devices were not losing money so there has been substantial progress made.
    3) Even the year and a half old z30 with less hardware runs better than Most new droids with the latest and greatest because the OS is good. Oh, I know... I'll get the " well, if the OS is so good why are not more people buying argument." My answer is there is not Marketing and sales/ support pushing it. The second part of my answer is teens and young adults want games and snapchat....with privacy be damned in a facebook generation. Say what you will, but at 42 I have yet to see all that many " young professionals" being more productive...at least where I'm at. They would rather be texting their BFF on the clock.....just an observation....you can take it, spin it and argue with it however you wish...I'm just telling you like it is.
    4) A free, junky OS, open software....is not going to "fix" Blackberry. More servers shutting down, celeb photos and people's private lives getting invaded will....along with a lot more marketing, knowledgeable salespeople.

    5) My Passport is smoking fast...IF I'm running BBworld apps or Android apps ....It is seriously a fast productive device....try one, see for yourself rather than just rely on blogs with all kinds of people talking about BB10 without actually experiencing it on a Passport...or even a z30. How many crap Android phones have there been the last 4 yrs....that list is a lengthy one. How many of those devices were bricked trying to remove bloatware? So picking on one device manufacturer consistently.....I just don't understand. At least BB10 you can play with leaked OS's without bricking. IF 90% of Android owners used Odin to get what they wanted.....they would throw their phones away.

    ρō┬Єđ bұ mұ Ů ρÚρōЯ┬. 10.3.2.840
    I am sure that you get a lot of work done with your Passport, but it definitely never helped in keeping your bias in check.

    You are talking to people who had/have a Z30/Passport.

    And I don't use Android apps on my BlackBerry. That's why I also have an Android phone.

    I won't even bother to answer you seriously.
    Someone who thinks that BlackBerrys market share is mostly a marketing problem and that the app gap isn't real, shouldn't be taken seriously anyhow.
    Your point nr. 4 sadly isn't an argument. It neither makes sense semantically, nor rationally.

    I honestly wish you good luck with your irrational love for BlackBerry though. With a bias so strong, I'll find your reaction especially amusing when BlackBerry announces some pure Android phones.
    The thing that amuses me the most though, are BlackBerry users who have Android apps they use to close the app gap, while they are bashing Android.
    The hypocrisy is so hilarious.
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 06-22-15 at 10:04 AM.
    Bbnivende, Witmen and mornhavon like this.
    06-22-15 08:05 AM
  24. JasW's Avatar
    Even the year and a half old z30 with less hardware runs better than Most new droids with the latest and greatest because the OS is good. Oh, I know... I'll get the " well, if the OS is so good why are not more people buying argument." My answer is there is not Marketing and sales/ support pushing it.
    Shirley, you can't be serious. And I won't stop calling you Shirley.
    06-22-15 08:39 AM
  25. early2bed's Avatar
    This is developing into an unsustainable platform strategy. There are way too many operating systems and hardware types to support with what is undoubtedly shrinking engineering manpower. You have BB10 devices that are slabs, keyboards, trackpads, trackpad/keyboards, and pretty soon a slider. There is supposedly an Android device coming down the pike. Don't forget plenty of legacy BB10 devices that are still being used.

    Anyone who is a software developer will tell you that's a nightmare of configurations to develop, test, and maintain.
    southlander and Coachbulldog like this.
    06-22-15 08:54 AM
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