07-23-15 05:38 AM
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  1. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Where in the world do you get those crazy ideas?

    You couldn't be more wrong... and real world market demographics are proving such ideas wrong every day of the week.
    No, regarding user desire for PKB devices, it's not "market demographics" that illustrate anything... but there are plenty of people on internet discussion forums that couldn't statistical analysis their way out of a paper bag that draw spurious conclusions with flawed "causation equals correlation" misinterpretation of sales figures of full touch devices. A=B therefore B=cantelope kind of reasoning. It's stupid, but it's all over the place.
    06-18-15 10:05 AM
  2. jay64's Avatar
    Hmmmm no auto denial from Chen.......hmmmmm
    06-18-15 01:39 PM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    No, regarding user desire for PKB devices, it's not "market demographics" that illustrate anything... but there are plenty of people on internet discussion forums that couldn't statistical analysis their way out of a paper bag that draw spurious conclusions with flawed "causation equals correlation" misinterpretation of sales figures of full touch devices. A=B therefore B=cantelope kind of reasoning. It's stupid, but it's all over the place.
    There is an obvious link between highly competitive markets, and the need to conquer a niche in said market, if you lack the scale or profits to be a mass manufacturer.

    If nobody, in one of the most competitive markets of our time, decides to go after the keyboard niche, you can be sure that there is a causal link between the viability of said niche and the lack of manufacturers making keyboard phones.
    06-18-15 01:44 PM
  4. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    There is an obvious link between highly competitive markets, and the need to conquer a niche in said market, if you lack the scale or profits to be a mass manufacturer.

    If nobody, in one of the most competitive markets of our time, decides to go after the keyboard niche, you can be sure that there is a causal link between the viability of said niche and the lack of manufacturers making keyboard phones.
    Exactly!

    PKB market is virtually non existent... as is the viability of those who chase it.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    06-18-15 02:01 PM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Their goal is only 10 million units. If they made a higher spec Classic, a good thin and light Slider and a good higher spec all touch they might have made it.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    06-18-15 02:52 PM
  6. notafanofyou's Avatar
    was the phone any good? was the qwerty keyboard as good as a blackberry one? Maybe it failed because it wasn't a very good android phone to begin with. There hasn't been a flagship level android device with a qwerty as of yet right?
    You are wasting your time with the BlackBerry can't do anything right crowd. These people will say nothing but FUD. They have a vested interest it seems in posting nothing but FUD often with demented arguments that make no sense. Have a laugh but don't waste your time.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 03:43 PM
  7. clickitykeys's Avatar
    PKB market is virtually non existent... as is the viability of those who chase it.
    Wow! The bolded part is so mind-numbingly idiotic that one can forgive the moderators for shielding their eyes and brains from it.

    Q10/10.3.1.2582
    06-18-15 03:57 PM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    You are wasting your time with the BlackBerry can't do anything right crowd. These people will say nothing but FUD. They have a vested interest it seems in posting nothing but FUD often with demented arguments that make no sense. Have a laugh but don't waste your time.

    Posted via CB10
    I think all the "can't do anything right crowd" was saying is there any evidence that people want a Keyboard Device - BB10 or Android... Sounds like a good question any manufacture should ask themselves. If there are a couple million of those users out there and they are willing to buy a premium device and a manufacture can make a profit on those devices... they by all means make it.

    If they are a dying bred... then maybe it isn't a format to pursue
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    06-18-15 04:03 PM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    How many units of the Q10, Q5, Classic and Passport have been sold? Forget the legacy phones. They are no longer being made. Then spread this market over the entire world. The market exists but maybe in such shallow pools as to make the exploitation uneconomic.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 04:25 PM
  10. vegetto_456's Avatar
    The Motorola Photon was it. It was marketed heavily. Motorala at that time 2011-2012 made 2 models of the Photon...one was PKB and the other was not. I have a Blackberry Passport....that keyboard is special because it's a capacitive touch Keyboard and yet is also physical keys. The keyboards prior to this that Blackberry made were the same as any other PKB. PKBs in general were not that popular since 2007-08...after that it was all Bar phones with touch screens and they all looked the same...the only way you could tell them apart was by looking up specs.

    Well people that were to lazy to look up specs and just wanted a working smartphone bought Apple. But as far as Android...no matter what Flavor..most wanted touch. It's not so much the PKB or no PKB that's an issue because Blackberry makes both....Z30 =very good device, classic= good device and the Passport which mixes both worlds= good device. It's not the OS that makes or breaks it either...because the OS is just as smooth if not Smoother than IOS. It's about whatsapp, snapchat,facebook,twitter,instagram and pintrest. Most people want those. They want 1 touch transfer of music and files and they want video of and every variety streaming . And most importantly, they want a dummyproof ecosystem managing it for them so they don't have to and are willing to sacrifice every facet of their privacy to get it......hence apple and samsung . Blackberry offers them in one form or another...but it's just tad more effort to get em. Most people don't like any kind of effort...especially the younger gen. They want 1 touch do it for me so I don't have to worry about it type apps!! Just look at how many people use facebook but don't have a clue about adjusting their privacy settings....people are lazy man. But long story short....its been tried with Android several times with "good or flagship " models and most who used droids didn't want the PKB...at least here in the States.

    ℘ℴƽℯđ √ ƽ ℘ƽƽ℘ℴř
    I stopped reading your post after the bolded part. Really? Blackberry QWERTY keyboards are just like any other PKB on the market? Blackberry phones may not do everything right but QWERTY keyboard is one area they are the KING. Do you know how much work went into sculpting the keyboards so that they are just perfect for typing?

    I have seen regular qwerty keyboard phones and they are not even in the same league as blackberry. Even the Bold 9000 keyboard is crazy good by todays standards. No other keyboard has the design and ergonomics and tactile feel of a berry. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you post stuff like that?
    06-18-15 04:42 PM
  11. RyanGermann's Avatar
    There is an obvious link between highly competitive markets, and the need to conquer a niche in said market, if you lack the scale or profits to be a mass manufacturer.

    If nobody, in one of the most competitive markets of our time, decides to go after the keyboard niche, you can be sure that there is a causal link between the viability of said niche and the lack of manufacturers making keyboard phones.
    The invention of the iPhone itself contradicts you: to that point, touchscreens and powerful "full Internet browsers" on handheld devices were uncommon: Apple took a risk (the original iPhone was by no means a sure thing) and succeeded. "causal link" my aunt fanny's fanny... but you know what I think of your reasoning ability.
    06-18-15 04:44 PM
  12. bicyclexpress's Avatar
    I don't mean to cut off any conversation or take this on a tangent, but as much as I am not a fan of BlackBerry going android, I am super excited that this means that BlackBerry is committed to the hardware game in some shape or fashion.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 04:52 PM
  13. vegetto_456's Avatar
    For people whose main concern is that BlackBerry will be just one of many OEM vendors for android phones, you have to realize that despite the lacklustre sales, their name still carries a LOT of good will and brand strength. People may not have liked BBOS but they cannot deny how good the PKB experience was.

    HTC name doesn't carry that weight. Samsung does have brand recognition and LG necessarily doesn't have the security cloud that BBRY does. BBRY has that one advantage going into the android arena, their reputation from before and their continued unchallenged dominance in security.

    There are countless other OEMs with no pedigree or clout in terms of branding aside from a few like Xiaomi or maybe Hwawei. But even then, they were never a household name before.

    So BBRY might try to sell the idea that with berry droids You can have your cake and eat it too. PKB and flagship android phone experience need not be mutually exclusive. I for one think this is one of those things that will resonate with customers, who are otherwise unwilling to jump ship to a regular BB10 phone, as they are too heavily invested in the android ecosystem.
    KR2013 and Maksimfa like this.
    06-18-15 04:52 PM
  14. fishlove73's Avatar
    I'm getting so tired of this conversation. Please BB, just go Android so we can end the speculation. Make it look and behave like BB10. Give us the hub, etc, and we can all be happy.
    Ah, no.

    ℘ℴƽℯđ √ ƽ ℘ƽƽ℘ℴř
    06-18-15 07:38 PM
  15. fishlove73's Avatar
    I stopped reading your post after the bolded part. Really? Blackberry QWERTY keyboards are just like any other PKB on the market? Blackberry phones may not do everything right but QWERTY keyboard is one area they are the KING. Do you know how much work went into sculpting the keyboards so that they are just perfect for typing?

    I have seen regular qwerty keyboard phones and they are not even in the same league as blackberry. Even the Bold 9000 keyboard is crazy good by todays standards. No other keyboard has the design and ergonomics and tactile feel of a berry. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you post stuff like that?
    Because I own a Passport that I love and have had just about every kind of smartphone made since 2006. There was nothing special about the curve keyboard. Even though it was a super nice device. I'm OK with my PKB on my Passport. But if they also made a passport that was all touch...I probably would have purchase that instead.

    ℘ℴƽℯđ √ ƽ ℘ƽƽ℘ℴř
    06-18-15 07:47 PM
  16. fishlove73's Avatar
    For people whose main concern is that BlackBerry will be just one of many OEM vendors for android phones, you have to realize that despite the lacklustre sales, their name still carries a LOT of good will and brand strength. People may not have liked BBOS but they cannot deny how good the PKB experience was.

    HTC name doesn't carry that weight. Samsung does have brand recognition and LG necessarily doesn't have the security cloud that BBRY does. BBRY has that one advantage going into the android arena, their reputation from before and their continued unchallenged dominance in security.

    There are countless other OEMs with no pedigree or clout in terms of branding aside from a few like Xiaomi or maybe Hwawei. But even then, they were never a household name before.

    So BBRY might try to sell the idea that with berry droids You can have your cake and eat it too. PKB and flagship android phone experience need not be mutually exclusive. I for one think this is one of those things that will resonate with customers, who are otherwise unwilling to jump ship to a regular BB10 phone, as they are too heavily invested in the android ecosystem.
    And did you also know that Samsung supplies chip sets for BlackBerry, Apple and other Droid manufacturers?

    ℘ℴƽℯđ √ ƽ ℘ƽƽ℘ℴř
    06-18-15 07:49 PM
  17. vegetto_456's Avatar
    And did you also know that Samsung supplies chip sets for BlackBerry, Apple and other Droid manufacturers?

    ℘ℴƽ†ℯđ √ ƽ ℘ƽƽ℘ℴř†
    Of course but what does that have to do with anything?
    06-18-15 08:43 PM
  18. ArcPlug's Avatar

    It's also pretty interesting, because it meant that all of those manufacturers willingly gave the scraps to BlackBerry. They basically gifted BlackBerry some 0.5% marketshare and never tried to get those customers with an Android keyboard phone.
    You're assuming (wrongly I would say) that everybody on the planet that would prefer a PKB is a BlackBerry customer. Do you think that maybe there are a lot of people who would prefer PKB but don't want a BlackBerry? I don't know and wouldn't even venture to guess whether a PKB android phone will sell well, but your logic is flawed at best and I would assume BlackBerry has done some research if they're actually going to be going through with this.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-15 08:57 PM
  19. Maksimfa's Avatar
    1/ no... i'll leave
    2/I left Android for Android
    3/ most BlackBerry users know exactly what OS they are running.. that's why they use it..

    Posted via my awesome Classic
    Get out beyonds CB and look at the actual users of BlackBerries. I was just at a real estate conference in NYC, about 10% of the people that I talked to, had BlackBerries. Those devices were either issued to them, or they bought because of the keyboard. They have no clue what operating system they were running.

    Keep in mind, going from BB OS 7 to Android is the same as moving from BB OS 7 to BB OS 10. Both are still completely different experiences.

    Quite a few It folks in the financial services industry like BB, but the employees want apps, so they go to other systems. Now BB does not have to lose the sale, they can offer a Leap in both Android and BB OS
    06-19-15 02:16 AM
  20. Maksimfa's Avatar
    For people whose main concern is that BlackBerry will be just one of many OEM vendors for android phones, you have to realize that despite the lacklustre sales, their name still carries a LOT of good will and brand strength. People may not have liked BBOS but they cannot deny how good the PKB experience was.

    HTC name doesn't carry that weight. Samsung does have brand recognition and LG necessarily doesn't have the security cloud that BBRY does. BBRY has that one advantage going into the android arena, their reputation from before and their continued unchallenged dominance in security.

    There are countless other OEMs with no pedigree or clout in terms of branding aside from a few like Xiaomi or maybe Hwawei. But even then, they were never a household name before.

    So BBRY might try to sell the idea that with berry droids You can have your cake and eat it too. PKB and flagship android phone experience need not be mutually exclusive. I for one think this is one of those things that will resonate with customers, who are otherwise unwilling to jump ship to a regular BB10 phone, as they are too heavily invested in the android ecosystem.
    This....

    A BlackBerry Passport, running Android would easily appease the magazines, and well, they carry lots of clout too.

    I will add. My wife recently switched to the BB Z30... from her Note 2. She likes the BlackBerry but hates 2 things..

    1. The navigation apps are far worse to Google Maps/Nav.
    2. No native gmail app.

    She couldn't care less for enterprise grade security, but she LOVES the swipe keyboard and bbm video.
    06-19-15 02:19 AM
  21. trsbbs's Avatar
    I stopped reading your post after the bolded part. Really? Blackberry QWERTY keyboards are just like any other PKB on the market? Blackberry phones may not do everything right but QWERTY keyboard is one area they are the KING. Do you know how much work went into sculpting the keyboards so that they are just perfect for typing?

    I have seen regular qwerty keyboard phones and they are not even in the same league as blackberry. Even the Bold 9000 keyboard is crazy good by todays standards. No other keyboard has the design and ergonomics and tactile feel of a berry. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you post stuff like that?
    Tell this to the folks with the unfixed double click issue.

    Via my HTC One M9...
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    06-19-15 08:24 AM
  22. trsbbs's Avatar
    Get out beyonds CB and look at the actual users of BlackBerries. I was just at a real estate conference in NYC, about 10% of the people that I talked to, had BlackBerries. Those devices were either issued to them, or they bought because of the keyboard. They have no clue what operating system they were running.

    Keep in mind, going from BB OS 7 to Android is the same as moving from BB OS 7 to BB OS 10. Both are still completely different experiences.

    Quite a few It folks in the financial services industry like BB, but the employees want apps, so they go to other systems. Now BB does not have to lose the sale, they can offer a Leap in both Android and BB OS
    So many things wrong here..
    I work for one of the largest financial services company in the U. S. and no one wants a BB. . Period. Not one person wants a PKB. Not one complained when we switched to IPhones. .

    Via my HTC One M9...
    06-19-15 08:28 AM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You're assuming (wrongly I would say) that everybody on the planet that would prefer a PKB is a BlackBerry customer. Do you think that maybe there are a lot of people who would prefer PKB but don't want a BlackBerry? I don't know and wouldn't even venture to guess whether a PKB android phone will sell well, but your logic is flawed at best and I would assume BlackBerry has done some research if they're actually going to be going through with this.

    Posted via CB10
    I work for a market research firm. We have our own numbers concerning the keyboard market.
    The estimates I know of, state that around 1% of the market would genuinely be interested in keyboard phones.

    Now, you might think that BlackBerry has numbers to justify their moves, but given their whole product portfolio I doubt that they know what they are doing.
    Even within the BB10 world, touchscreen phones outsold keyboard phones in absolute numbers.

    Anyhow, the much greater indication of why a keyboard Android is very probably a very stupid idea (as a saviour device. To have it in the portfolio as well alongside of a touchscreen alternative, is something else) is that not a single Android manufacturer is bothering with them.
    You'd think that a Sony or HTC would make keyboard phones, if they'd get a competitive advantage through doing so (especially since both aren't/weren't in good shape). But not a single one, even though lots of the manufacturers don't even make profits, ever did that in the last few years.

    There must be some obvious reasons for that (like the market being too small to be worth catering to), don't you think?
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 06-24-15 at 01:56 AM.
    06-19-15 09:08 AM
  24. Mausje75's Avatar
    Get out beyonds CB and look at the actual users of BlackBerries. I was just at a real estate conference in NYC, about 10% of the people that I talked to, had BlackBerries. Those devices were either issued to them, or they bought because of the keyboard. They have no clue what operating system they were running.
    And that was 10% of how many people?? This doesn't mean that the rest of the BlackBerry users worldwide are the same


    2. No native gmail app.
    Why need a Gmail app? .. make a Gmail account in the hub and vola... there is Gmail...
    I don't even have a Yahoo app.. But it's perfectly running through the Hub... and I have 2 accounts...

    Posted via my awesome Classic
    06-19-15 09:28 AM
  25. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    The invention of the iPhone itself contradicts you: to that point, touchscreens and powerful "full Internet browsers" on handheld devices were uncommon: Apple took a risk (the original iPhone was by no means a sure thing) and succeeded. "causal link" my aunt fanny's fanny... but you know what I think of your reasoning ability.
    No, the invention of the iPhone actually makes my argument even stronger.

    You are comparing a new innovation like the iPhone (more the OS than the touchscreen form factor itself though), to an old innovation like the Nokia Communicator.

    One had a keyboard in 1996 and revolutionised the smartphone world, the other one had a capacitive touchscreen that allowed you, combined with the OS, to not need a toolbelt, trackpad or stylus to navigate your phone (this was the innovativion, not the phone itself) and revolutionised the smartphone world again in 2007.

    Fast forward a few years coming from 1996, the first BlackBerry phones start to appear. They revolutionised the way emails were delivered ( nothing else though).
    Then came the iPhone.

    There is a chronological order here.
    Just like we had with the VHS and the DvD (or the horse with cart and then later the Truck).
    One invention/innovation (in case of the Communicator and the iPhone, I'd say that both words are correct) leads to another one.
    And, when enough time passed, what once was considered revolutionary and innovative, is simply dead and buried, because the market wanted something better.

    The keyboard (at least our interpretations. If we would talk about a touchscreen, which can change its shape to emulate keyboards and provide tactile feedback, then we would have an even newer innovation, giving us the best of both worlds) outlived its usefulness. Just like the VHS, the musket or the daughty warrior.

    Nobody made something like an iPhone until Apple did it.
    Keyboard phones however, were neither new when BlackBerry made their first phone, nor would they be considered innovative today.
    Just like the revolver became the better musket, the touchscreen became the better keyboard.

    Arguing that the iPhone contradicts one of the most important principles of our economy, (namely that we march from one innovation/invention to the other) is comedic at best and clueless at worst.
    There is a term for things like the keyboard phone, the musket, or the horse with the cart: they are called obsolete.

    And you know what made the keyboard phone obsolete?
    The iPhone.
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 06-19-15 at 10:10 AM.
    06-19-15 09:29 AM
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