02-07-14 07:49 PM
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  1. amjass12's Avatar
    Okay so we might all as well just give up and have android run the whole world and have no choice as consumers. Would that appease you and the rest of the flamers in here?

    Posted via CB10
    Lol.how is he a flamer if he is merely stating a fact?


    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB and afl777 like this.
    02-06-14 10:08 AM
  2. trsbbs's Avatar
    Nah BIS meant slow speeds too and an exclusive BlackBerry plan. They did not want that anymore. They wanted customers to not have to subscribe to a different plan just so they could use BlackBerry 10.
    The fellow is right. BlackBerry could not get bb10 to work with the NOC. Factoid.

    CB10 via Verizon Z10. 10.2.1.1925
    02-06-14 10:41 AM
  3. Omnitech's Avatar
    Yet billions of people use their products worldwide without worry. You're in the minority.

    Yes, stupid people are in the majority.

    We already know this.
    ray689 likes this.
    02-06-14 06:03 PM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    The fellow is right. BlackBerry could not get bb10 to work with the NOC. Factoid.

    Ah yes, on the Internet, everyone's an expert.

    Fact #1: BB10 already works with the RIM/Blackberry NOC. If it didn't there would be no BBM, no PIN messages and no BES. Thanks for playing.



    The BlackBerry OS 10 development team couldn't figure out how to implement support for BIS.

    Show your proof of this please.

    I have a feeling I'll be waiting a long time for that.
    02-06-14 06:06 PM
  5. ray689's Avatar
    Yet billions of people use their products worldwide without worry. You're in the minority.
    The fact that people are blinded and don't care doesn't make what he said is not true.

    Posted via CB10
    02-06-14 08:09 PM
  6. amjass12's Avatar
    The fact that people are blinded and don't care doesn't make what he said is not true.

    Posted via CB10
    Here we go with the people are too stupid and blinded comments because they don't use a blackberry.



    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB and milo53 like this.
    02-07-14 02:52 AM
  7. amjass12's Avatar
    Yes, stupid people are in the majority.

    We already know this.
    You are stupid for making that comment.

    Btw, entertain us all. What is it you do exactly that means you need government level security on your phone?


    Posted via CB10
    02-07-14 02:56 AM
  8. Omnitech's Avatar
    You are stupid for making that comment.

    Am I now? Many famous philosophers have stated essentially the same thing. Not worried what you think.



    What is it you do exactly that means you need government level security on your phone?

    I don't recall anyone here saying anything about "government level security".

    If you don't care about all the ridiculous intrusions that Google commits in violation of citizen's privacy in the name of massive profits, thats your perogative. So it is mine to scorn people who do. Because in the end, it is those people who ultimately end up causing us all to live in a police-state, sooner or later.

    First they came ... - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    No, Google is not the government. But they work hand-in-hand, and they set the stage, culturally-speaking, for the sheep to be led to their own slaughter, eventually.

    Americans are notably cavalier about this sort of thing because most of the ones born in the country have no memories of living under a totalitarian regime, and along with that, they tend to worship large corporations. Much of the rest of the world has a little more astute perspective.
    ray689 and clickitykeys like this.
    02-07-14 04:06 AM
  9. tre10's Avatar
    Some people aren't blind to Google's antics. They just consider it the cost of convenience.

    Google is very convenient for a lot of people

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    02-07-14 04:39 AM
  10. afl777's Avatar
    I wonder how things will work out. If its true that support is ending for OS5 and OS6 and the Jakarta is a cheap phone being brought out for emerging markets....there is a huge consumer base of OS4 and OS6 in Africa. They can't move onto BB10 even if they wanted to because they can't afford go buy the phones. A brand new phone for many is a second hand Pearl or 8520. These phones then aren't replaced every year or two like we do....they have to last years. Many haven't got a PC so can't use Link or DTM.

    And for many of these people in small villages they haven't even got wifi. They can have BIS on an older Blackberry and function. But if these older phones lose support many won't go onto BB10 because they just can't afford them. If they do find the money to run a more expensive data package they will but on second hand androids that they could get for the UK equivalent of 20.

    And this isn't against Blackberry, or 'flaming' of trolling or whatever some on each thread are only too happy to post to anyone who even seems to not joyessly praising BB. This is gained over two years of talking to Nigerians, Kenyians etc on help pages. When it becomes widesread knowledge that support has stopped they will be distraught.

    But of course Blackberry police their help page, they see these people....and I'm sure someone will comment on here that there only a few people in this situation....but not so. This situation covers much of a massive continent, and its to be hoped that the moves BB make now work out.
    02-07-14 04:40 AM
  11. amjass12's Avatar
    Am I now? Many famous philosophers have stated essentially the same thing. Not worried what you think.

    Privacy Policy ? Policies & Principles ? Google

    there is nothing here i do not agree to. I have nothing to hide. if you use facebook (or any other site), have you ever noticed that adverts are tailored to things that youve recently been viewing. there is so much more people know about you than u think from sources other than google
    (both on and off the internet). you may as well go and live in a hole in the ground and not subscribe to an electricity provider.

    Im just saying... imo its abit extreme what your saying, and most people have nothing to hide when they take out an email account.. or download an app from google play. much of the free world is driven by consumerism. may i suggest cuba as an alternative. i have been there and it is rather nice i must say!



    I don't recall anyone here saying anything about "government level security".

    If you don't care about all the ridiculous intrusions that Google commits in violation of citizen's privacy in the name of massive profits, thats your perogative. So it is mine to scorn people who do. Because in the end, it is those people who ultimately end up causing us all to live in a police-state, sooner or later.

    First they came ... - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    No, Google is not the government. But they work hand-in-hand, and they set the stage, culturally-speaking, for the sheep to be led to their own slaughter, eventually.

    Americans are notably cavalier about this sort of thing because most of the ones born in the country have no memories of living under a totalitarian regime, and along with that, they tend to worship large corporations. Much of the rest of the world has a little more astute perspective.
    02-07-14 05:20 AM
  12. ray689's Avatar
    Here we go with the people are too stupid and blinded comments because they don't use a blackberry.



    Posted via CB10
    When did I say this? I have better things to do than have a discussion with someone who doesn't want to acknowledge what is happening right under their nose (and yes you fall into the majority).
    Again this has nothing to do with a phone, its a big picture thing man. I'm sure one day when you do some research and look back in history you will realize that maybe the majority should have woken up to what is happening to their privacy and liberty....even if you and the rest believe there is no reason to care (as history repeats itself right in front of you).
    Don't worry, one day you'll understand (the hard way).


    Posted via CB10
    02-07-14 06:22 AM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    Some people aren't blind to Google's antics. They just consider it the cost of convenience.

    Google is very convenient for a lot of people

    That's a better argument but my response to that is: the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. It does not come for free.

    And there's that famous Ben Franklin quote that really annoys MarsupilamiX if I repeat it, so I will only obliquely refer to it.
    ray689 likes this.
    02-07-14 06:54 AM
  14. Omnitech's Avatar
    I wonder how things will work out. If its true that support is ending for OS5 and OS6 and the Jakarta is a cheap phone being brought out for emerging markets....there is a huge consumer base of OS4 and OS6 in Africa.

    I don't think it's as huge as you think. Even in SA, which was historically one of the strongest markets for Blackberry, they are now #2 or #3. It is NOT POSSIBLE to go into the gutter to compete with white-box bottom-rung-cheap Android devices, which is what the average non-wealthy person in a developing country is going to buy, if anything. Most of the peasantry is lucky to have some rice to eat every day, much less worry about a smartphone and wireless service.



    They can't move onto BB10 even if they wanted to because they can't afford go buy the phones.

    Then let them buy some bottom-rung generic thing from some unknown Chinese company that will go out of business in a year. Blackberry CANNOT attempt to compete with that junk, there is no profit in it.



    Many haven't got a PC so can't use Link or DTM.

    I don't know what you are trying to say there but Android doesn't even have anything like Link or DTM so it's a moot point.

    My understanding is that carriers in many developing countries today are also offering very aggressively priced Android plans that are just as cheap as BIS plans, and don't require all the proprietary junk that BIS requires. The price advantage a lot of people seem to keep crowing about seems not to be the big deal so many claim it to be, anyway.
    02-07-14 07:02 AM
  15. Omnitech's Avatar
    amjass12 wrote:

    there is nothing here i do not agree to. I have nothing to hide. [...]

    And here is why that is a bad argument:

    Why 'I Have Nothing to Hide' Is the Wrong Way to Think About Surveillance | Wired Opinion | Wired.com
    https://chronicle.com/article/Why-Pr...ven-if/127461/
    https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-s...something-fear


    Also - please do not post your comments inside of the quoted text you are quoting from another poster.

    It makes it impossible to properly quote and link your words in a subsequent followup and is a big PITA to try to sort out what you wrote versus what the other person wrote. Thanks.
    clickitykeys and ray689 like this.
    02-07-14 07:11 AM
  16. afl777's Avatar
    I don't think it's as huge as you think. Even in SA, which was historically one of the strongest markets for Blackberry, they are now #2 or #3. It is NOT POSSIBLE to go into the gutter to compete with white-box bottom-rung-cheap Android devices, which is what the average non-wealthy person in a developing country is going to buy, if anything. Most of the peasantry is lucky to have some rice to eat every day, much less worry about a smartphone and wireless service.






    Then let them buy some bottom-rung generic thing from some unknown Chinese company that will go out of business in a year. Blackberry CANNOT attempt to compete with that junk, there is no profit in it.






    I don't know what you are trying to say there but Android doesn't even have anything like Link or DTM so it's a moot point.

    My understanding is that carriers in many developing countries today are also offering very aggressively priced Android plans that are just as cheap as BIS plans, and don't require all the proprietary junk that BIS requires. The price advantage a lot of people seem to keep crowing about seems not to be the big deal so many claim it to be, anyway.
    The point I'm getting at is tbat although these people are so very poor that they can't afford a PC, or have no access to wifi, it would be rather nice if tbey could still afford to be in touch with the rest of the world. If other options for them are not available then I would hope that the support for the phones they have xarries on for some considerable time.

    I would hate to think that anyone from any of these African communities will by chance find Crackberry and find this thread...."most of the peasentry"...

    And I would suggest you participate on the official Blackberry help page and see for yourself how many of these users there are. And to "let them buy some cheap generic thing" is surely losing customers.....customers who in their own words love Blackberry.
    02-07-14 07:14 AM
  17. tre10's Avatar
    That's a better argument but my response to that is: the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. It does not come for free.

    And there's that famous Ben Franklin quote that really annoys MarsupilamiX if I repeat it, so I will only obliquely refer to it.
    Fair point. However in the society we live in now people either don't have time or are too lazy to provide that vigilance. The more we want our phones to do for us the more that liberty goes out the window.

    As we clearly see around these forums and the interwebs in general, people seem ok with that. Whether it becomes the downfall of the right to privacy only time will tell.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    Pete The Penguin likes this.
    02-07-14 07:17 AM
  18. ray689's Avatar
    Fair point. However in the society we live in now people either don't have time or are too lazy to provide that vigilance. The more we want our phones to do for us the more that liberty goes out the window.

    As we clearly see around these forums and the interwebs in general, people seem ok with that. Whether it becomes the downfall of the right to privacy only time will tell.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    It has already become the downfall. People will see it when it's too late.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by ray689; 02-07-14 at 07:43 AM.
    02-07-14 07:23 AM
  19. tre10's Avatar
    I has already become the downfall. People will see it when it's too late.

    Posted via CB10
    Well when that happens you guys get yo say I told you so

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    Pete The Penguin likes this.
    02-07-14 07:26 AM
  20. Omnitech's Avatar
    And I would suggest you participate on the official Blackberry help page and see for yourself how many of these users there are.

    I have no need to go to help pages, I follow the market demographic/statistics on a regular basis.



    And to "let them buy some cheap generic hing" is surely losing customers.....customers who in their own words love Blackberry.

    So what? You cannot maintain a business without making enough profit to at least break-even. That product category is not even remotely practical to participate in for a company the size of Blackberry with a quality reputation to uphold, it would be business suicide for the company to attempt to do so.

    There is a reason Piaget does not make $10 watches and Porsche does not make $5000 cars. It is not because they really love to "lose customers". They are not setup to market to a super-low-end category that requires extremely aggressive cost-cutting that a company like Blackberry neither is in a position to do, nor would they want to. Unless they want to close their doors even faster than they are already in danger of doing.
    02-07-14 07:35 AM
  21. Omnitech's Avatar
    Well when that happens you guys get yo say I told you so

    Won't do any good, because we'll be in jail as political prisoners, and you will be working slave labor somewhere without any access to news outside of what the government feeds you.

    This could be fun, let's see how many layers deep we can get.
    ray689 likes this.
    02-07-14 07:39 AM
  22. afl777's Avatar
    I have no need to go to help pages, I follow the market demographic/statistics on a regular basis.






    So what? You cannot maintain a business without making enough profit to at least break-even. That product category is not even remotely practical to participate in for a company the size of Blackberry with a quality reputation to uphold, it would be business suicide for the company to attempt to do so.

    There is a reason Piaget does not make $10 watches and Porsche does not make $5000 cars. It is not because they really love to "lose customers". They are not setup to market to a super-low-end category that requires extremely aggressive cost-cutting that a company like Blackberry neither is in a position to do, nor would they want to. Unless they want to close their doors even faster than they are already in danger of doing.
    That you don't go onto help pages explains a lot. Maybe best that you stay with your statistics and I stay hitting the ground where where a different story unfolds and we agree to differ...
    02-07-14 07:41 AM
  23. amjass12's Avatar
    amjass12 wrote:




    And here is why that is a bad argument:

    Why 'I Have Nothing to Hide' Is the Wrong Way to Think About Surveillance | Wired Opinion | Wired.com
    https://chronicle.com/article/Why-Pr...ven-if/127461/
    https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-s...something-fear


    Also - please do not post your comments inside of the quoted text you are quoting from another poster.

    It makes it impossible to properly quote and link your words in a subsequent followup and is a big PITA to try to sort out what you wrote versus what the other person wrote. Thanks.
    Sorry but it's not a bad argument. I pulled this quote from the article.

    For instance, did you know that it is a federal crime to be in possession of a lobster under a certain size? It doesn?t matter if you bought it at a grocery store, if someone else gave it to you, if it?s dead or alive, if you found it after it died of natural causes, or even if you killed it while acting in self defense. You can go to jail because of a lobster.

    Argument over. It's not that I feel I'm right. It's that I will not debate with someone posting links with this stuff in it.

    And I'm sorry I quoted inside the quote. I didn't realise I did until I actually submitted the post. But then I forgave myself as I'm part of the stupid majority.

    Posted via CB10
    02-07-14 07:44 AM
  24. ray689's Avatar
    Well when that happens you guys get yo say I told you so

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    It's not a matter of being the one who is right but rather trying to inform and educate a vast and naive portion of the population...like the guy who says "so what, I have nothing to hide". That's possibly the most naive comment I have seen. Which again, I tell those people...look back in history, do some research and see that it is repeating itself. Only difference is, now technology has made it easier for those who gather data and monitor to do so.


    Posted via CB10
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-07-14 07:48 AM
  25. Omnitech's Avatar
    That you don't go onto help pages explains a lot.

    It explains nothing.

    First of all, I am one of the most prolific posters on the largest Blackberry-centric website in the world. "Don't go onto help pages". ROFL

    The POINT was - I do not NEED to spend time on a forum to KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE use a company's products. Period. Spin it however you want, you are wasting your time.



    Maybe best that you stay with your statistics and I stay hitting the ground where where a different story unfolds and we agree to differ...

    Of course we disagree, but it is not because I do not know how many people in a particular region of the world use some company's products.

    If you had tried to argue that you knew more about HOW people in a particular region used a particular company's products, or what their OPINION of the products was - that would have been at least potentially credible. Rather than attempting to claim that a person cannot possibly know how many people use a company's product if they are not personally talking to each and every one of them constantly.

    It's a nice fantasy to have to dream about covering the entire continent and every citizen with a Blackberry smartphone. The reality is much different than that. You cannot compete at sub $100 price point in the Smartphone market today unless you are one of the following types of businesses:

    1. You have a ridiculously threadbare, low-cost company that has virtually no engineering to speak of, no customer-support to speak of, no marketing to speak of, does not produce much in the way of documentation or certifications, has no unique technology and primarily builds generic devices based on reference designs, quality control is poor, etc etc. These are known as "white box manufacturers" in the industry.
    2. You are a HUGE company like Samsung which has massive economy of scale and which is nearly vertically-integrated. This means (to take the example of Samsung), you are the largest manufacturer of computer memory in the world, you are the largest producer of flat panel displays in the world, you are one of the largest producers of mobile SOC/CPUs in the world, and you produce such high numbers of products you are able to buy raw materials and components at prices that virtually no other competitor can get, and you get the privilege of special treatment and production allocations that no one else other than you can negotiate.



    Blackberry does not fit either of those models. They have a high cost structure. Unless you think it would be a good idea to fire all the people in Canada and replace them with a tiny skeleton crew in Vietnam or Sri Lanka, give up their engineering and support activities and so on in order to get their costs down low enough to eke a small profit out of $100 devices that tons of "white box" companies are already doing (and most of those companies will go out of business in a few years)

    That business is not a business that Blackberry wants or needs to be in.

    Even the new "Jakarta" phone runs the risk of undermining the BlackBerry brand due to unknown design aspects and quality/reliability. And once your brand gets a poor quality perception amongst the masses, you're dead - no amount of improvement will save you when the whole world perceives your product as poor quality. They will not bother to even think about you any more. BlackBerry is already on the verge of that tipping-point.

    .
    02-07-14 08:04 AM
129 ... 3456

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