02-07-14 08:49 PM
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  1. Carjackd's Avatar
    Thor lacked. the charisma that is required by CEO IMO. Maybe a lot of what he had to say was lost in translation. Let's face it...listen I love my z30 and previously my z10 and would never go back to a physical keyboard, but personally I think his biggest mistake was release the z10 before the q10. Blackberry success has always been with business clientele and the qwerty physical keyboard has always been popular within the business community. BlackBerry was losing market share and mostly market share in an area where they have dominated amongst business customers.

    Thor made a lot of mistakes and don't get me wrong...he was handed a mess..but he made some crucial errors.

    Nevertheless, although we haven't heard a ton from Mr. Chen...what we have heard is where Thor should have been focusing on two years ago when he took over the helm.

    Posted Via my Kick @ss BlackBerry Z30
    Mecca EL and Blacklatino like this.
    02-03-14 01:46 AM
  2. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Okay so we might all as well just give up and have android run the whole world and have no choice as consumers. Would that appease you and the rest of the flamers in here?
    iOS has a niche and will continue to be a greatly lucrative and influential product for Apple. Mac survived with a much more meager 5% marketshare didn't it?

    As long as consumers are willing to pay huge premiums for Apple products, Apple products will still be around. And, as a (part) Android user, I must say that developers still treat Android worse than iOS.



    I'd like to add that BB10 is not the end-be-all of alternative OSes many on here make it out to be. There are really still a number of smartphone OS choices out there. If BB10 goes under, there's still Firefox and Ubuntu and Sailfish if you hate Microsoft. And there will be more alternative OSes to choose from in the future.

    There's no real reason to root for Blackberry extra hard even if one supports alternative OSes. Blackberry is neither the most innovative or cost efficient company. There will be more promising, talented startups in the future with a brighter chance of capturing marketshare and energy may be better spent supporting them.
    Last edited by sentimentGX4; 02-03-14 at 02:04 AM.
    bbq10l and aniym like this.
    02-03-14 01:50 AM
  3. ray689's Avatar
    samething already happen when Windows rule PC industry...

    so isnt it is the samething when people in CB calling iPhone user a sheep, iphone is a toy?.....i never say people in here wrong to choose BB , we are talking about BB10 prospect in consumer market
    I didn't say those people should be saying those things either.

    Posted via CB10
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-03-14 01:50 AM
  4. garnok's Avatar
    Thor lacked. the charisma that is required by CEO IMO. Maybe a lot of what he had to say was lost in translation. Let's face it...listen I love my z30 and previously my z10 and would never go back to a physical keyboard, but personally I think his biggest mistake was release the z10 before the q10. Blackberry success has always been with business clientele and the qwerty physical keyboard has always been popular within the business community. BlackBerry was losing market share and mostly market share in an area where they have dominated amongst business customers.

    Thor made a lot of mistakes and don't get me wrong...he was handed a mess..but he made some crucial errors.

    Nevertheless, although we haven't heard a ton from Mr. Chen...what we have heard is where Thor should have been focusing on two years ago when he took over the helm.

    Posted Via my Kick @ss BlackBerry Z30
    you can say Thor lacked because you already know what happen to BB when thor incharge and left BB. before he left BB and before BB10 first quarter result, people say almost samething when JC in charge.. that TH he is the right guy, hammer of thor, he will be the next steve job, thor should lead BB commercial because people love him (CB thread), he is BB saviour after the co CEO make a mess etc
    milo53 likes this.
    02-03-14 02:03 AM
  5. ray689's Avatar
    iOS has a niche and will continue to be a greatly lucrative and influential product for Apple. Mac survived with a much more meager 5% marketshare didn't it?

    As long as consumers are willing to pay huge premiums for Apple products, Apple products will still be around. And, as a (part) Android user, I must say that developers still treat Android worse than iOS.



    I'd like to add that BB10 is not the end-be-all of alternative OSes many on here make it out to be. There are really still a number of smartphone OS choices out there. If BB10 goes under, there's still Firefox and Ubuntu and Sailfish if you hate Microsoft. And there will be more alternative OSes to choose from in the future.

    There's no real reason to root for Blackberry extra hard even if one supports alternative OSes. Blackberry is neither the most innovative or cost efficient company. There will be more promising, talented startups in the future with a brighter chance of capturing marketshare and energy may be better spent supporting them.
    I'm glad there are others but what do you think is being said about those OS' by these same people? Like I said, I want choice....that only leads to innovation and competition. Unfortunately, if BlackBerry isn't able to make it, I can't see those competitors making much headway. After all, people are now convinced that they can't accomplish anything without apps. How long would it take for those you mentioned to catch up?

    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-03-14 02:42 AM
  6. LoganSix's Avatar
    samething already happen when Windows rule PC industry...

    so isnt it is the samething when people in CB calling iPhone user a sheep, iphone is a toy?.....i never say people in here wrong to choose BB , we are talking about BB10 prospect in consumer market
    The PC example is why you should not give up on BlackBerry. Monopolies cause lack of innovation.

    Do you realize that all of the US market is smaller than 10% of the Asian market? That there will be a billion new smart phone users upgrading from regular phones in the next decade?

    Just because Android is in the lead now, doesn't mean they will be in the future.

    Posted via CB10
    grover5, Mecca EL and ital1 like this.
    02-03-14 07:02 AM
  7. wincyUt's Avatar
    no **** sherlock.

    releaasing a low budget phone for emerging markets tells otherwise, and just because the company is re focusing on enterprise does not mean consumers will never be able to buy a BlackBerry again.

    man some people need to get their facts right and stop taking what they want to hear out of things and leaving other info behind.

    BlackBerry is rebuilding, they are focusing their efforts more on what they are strong at and what brings n more profits so they can stabilize while they rebuild before they can think about making another push in the consumer market
    Lmao!!! The last time I checked, the "emerging markets" are humans/people called CONSUMERS. What's your point? As long as BlackBerry continues to sell phones anywhere on this planet EARTH, John Chen's word stands correct.
    Carjackd, Mecca EL, ital1 and 1 others like this.
    02-03-14 07:39 AM
  8. Thesmartmale's Avatar
    every time BB release BB10 people in here always say it will be a game changer....from

    Z10 total failure in term of sales

    Q10 people say it will boost BB sales because most BB users like keyboard in the end the sales still low

    Q5 BB BB biggest hope for emerging market...in the end it is overprice phone and sales are still lo (if its not dropping)

    Z30 huge improvement from Z10 but most people, carrier, store already lose faith with BB it only sell in limited store, and it looks like they dont produce as many as other BB10 product.

    BB Jakarta will not help...they losing their marketshare in emerging market to android (the new trend) , they only have 0.6% marketshare in india, and in indonesia their number drop significantly....lose to samsung (3 times BB sales number) and andromax. other vendor already offering cheap android phone from $50 - $200 with a good enough hardware specs.

    for example lenovo S820 price around $200 it have 5.25 inch , 1080p screen, quad core processor, 8gb storage 8mp camera, gorilla glass and it is available NOW ...not another 3-4 months. when jakarta comes to the market expect cheaper, better specs phone from many android vendors overshadow BB jakarta launch
    Z10 was not that much of a failure in the gulf, even though BlackBerry threw the left overs to us.

    What is the point of your post though?

    Posted via CB10
    02-03-14 08:40 AM
  9. garnok's Avatar
    The PC example is why you should not give up on BlackBerry. Monopolies cause lack of innovation.

    Do you realize that all of the US market is smaller than 10% of the Asian market? That there will be a billion new smart phone users upgrading from regular phones in the next decade?

    Just because Android is in the lead now, doesn't mean they will be in the future.

    Posted via CB10
    but the different in smartphone market there are other choices iOS and WP not a total domination of android..

    problem is BB have less than 1% in 3 largest population in the world China, US, India...in indonesia (4th largest) they have around 10% - 15% but the number keep dropping rapidly ...it is not just happen in the US, its already happen around the world

    even BB themselves know they are losing marketshare everywhere, including their strong market :
    "The increase in competition encountered by the Company in international markets is due to the recent entry into those markets of global competitors offering high end devices that compete with the Company’s BlackBerry 10 devices, as well as other competitors targeting those markets with lower end Android-based devices that compete with the Company’s lower cost devices. The decline can also be attributed to consumer preferences for devices with access to the broadest number of applications, such as those available in the iOS and Android environments"
    Last edited by garnok; 02-03-14 at 09:19 AM.
    02-03-14 09:01 AM
  10. birdman_38's Avatar
    Of course, if it were up to Blackberry, it would never leave the consumer market. It has been heavily dependent on it for a long time; however, it has been forced out by most merchants in the developed world as well as many merchants in the developing world. Blackberry has been relegated to the Indonesian consumer market, pretty much the Mexico of China.
    Talk like this just grinds my gears. If there's no effective sales and marketing strategy in place, the product is not going to move. That applies to all products in all stores, not just mobile.

    Quit blaming the retailers.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-03-14 09:03 AM
  11. garnok's Avatar
    Z10 was not that much of a failure in the gulf, even though BlackBerry threw the left overs to us.

    What is the point of your post though?

    Posted via CB10
    Z10 is a total failure in term of sales...BB need to write down Z10 inventory, and BB get a massive loss with Z10, drop their price and it still not help BB10 sales number

    you could read my post carefully than you know my point.
    techvisor likes this.
    02-03-14 09:03 AM
  12. LoganSix's Avatar
    [QUOTE=garnok;9953406]but the different in smartphone market there are other choices iOS and WP not a total domination of android..

    problem is BB have less than 1% in 3 largest population in the world China, US, India...in indonesia (4th largest) they have around 10% - 15% but the number keep dropping rapidly ...it is not just happen in the US, its already happen around the world

    even BB themselves know they are losing marketshare everywhere, including their strong market :[QUOTE]

    How much market share did Android have 10 years ago? How much market share did Motorola have 15 years ago?

    Things change. Do you know how much 1% of 4 billion is? You don't have to be number 1 to still be in the game.


    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL and ital1 like this.
    02-03-14 09:29 AM
  13. anon1727506's Avatar
    Lmao!!! The last time I checked, the "emerging markets" are humans/people called CONSUMERS. What's your point? As long as BlackBerry continues to sell phones anywhere on this planet EARTH, John Chen's word stands correct.
    Is there even one "emerging market" where the BB10 lineup has sold better than the legacy devices it is replacing?

    BlackBerries were popular because they had "cheap" data plans for email and BBM. BB10 has up to now done away with BIS Plans and the HUGE advantage that BlackBerry once had. People could buy a used BlackBerry fairly cheap and they could afford the lower monthly BIS BlackBerry Data Plan. But now BlackBerry is on an equal planing field when it comes to the monthly data plans....

    Markets like China and India are quickly moving toward a point where sub-$150 smartphones are the majority of shipments, bringing a solid computing experience to the hands of many.”
    1 billion smartphones shipped worldwide in 2013 | PCWorld

    It is impossible for BlackBerry to compete on pricing alone in these markets, yet their devices don't have a key feature that separates them from the pack anymore. There is a difference in a company saying they will sell to consumers, and consumers buying their products. Pricing has been an issues, but it is not the core reason that people stayed away from the platform.
    look_alive likes this.
    02-03-14 09:29 AM
  14. garnok's Avatar
    [QUOTE=LoganSix;9953494][QUOTE=garnok;9953406]but the different in smartphone market there are other choices iOS and WP not a total domination of android..

    problem is BB have less than 1% in 3 largest population in the world China, US, India...in indonesia (4th largest) they have around 10% - 15% but the number keep dropping rapidly ...it is not just happen in the US, its already happen around the world

    even BB themselves know they are losing marketshare everywhere, including their strong market :

    How much market share did Android have 10 years ago? How much market share did Motorola have 15 years ago?

    Things change. Do you know how much 1% of 4 billion is? You don't have to be number 1 to still be in the game.


    Posted via CB10
    BB from last report still have 1.7% marketshare....but the numbers are keep dropping..every quarter.

    you dont have to be number one but if you are in the bottom position it is very hard, because BB not selling their phone themselves, there are carriers, distributors, store...if you only have small marketshare expect your product only sitting behind the store, lack of support, lack of sales push, and zero leverage

    things can change...sure..but what make BB10 stand out against other competitors, attract large number of buyers ? In the past android, Nokia, apple, BBOS have something to make people buy their product...if they dont have it dont expect people buy their product years to come....
    02-03-14 09:57 AM
  15. LoganSix's Avatar
    [QUOTE=garnok;9953617][QUOTE=LoganSix;9953494]
    but the different in smartphone market there are other choices iOS and WP not a total domination of android..

    problem is BB have less than 1% in 3 largest population in the world China, US, India...in indonesia (4th largest) they have around 10% - 15% but the number keep dropping rapidly ...it is not just happen in the US, its already happen around the world

    even BB themselves know they are losing marketshare everywhere, including their strong market :

    BB from last report still have 1.7% marketshare....but the numbers are keep dropping..every quarter.

    you dont have to be number one but if you are in the bottom position it is very hard, because BB not selling their phone themselves, there are carriers, distributors, store...if you only have small marketshare expect your product only sitting behind the store, lack of support, lack of sales push, and zero leverage

    things can change...sure..but what make BB10 stand out against other competitors, attract large number of buyers ? In the past android,motorola, Nokia, apple, BBOS have something to make people buy their product...if they dont have it dont expect people buy their product years to come....
    The balance sheet has been fixed. Chen needs to fix the device offerings and marketing. The phone business is turning into the automobile business model.

    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-03-14 10:02 AM
  16. garnok's Avatar
    [QUOTE=LoganSix;9953637][QUOTE=garnok;9953617]

    The balance sheet has been fixed. Chen needs to fix the device offerings and marketing. The phone business is turning into the automobile business model.

    Posted via CB10
    can you explain what do you mean with phone business turning to automobile business model? and their balance sheet has been fixed ? do you mean chen made the company more effective and efficient with their money?
    02-03-14 10:13 AM
  17. LoganSix's Avatar
    [QUOTE=garnok;9953701][QUOTE=LoganSix;9953637]

    can you explain what do you mean with phone business turning to automobile business model? and their balance sheet has been fixed ? do you mean chen made the company more effective and efficient with their money?
    TH did the necessary cuts to jobs, buildings and etc... to "right size" the company. Before TH, RIM bought QNX, TAT, Paratek and other companies to start the transition to a different platform. The only fix left to do is marketing and providing the eight devices for each market. The deal with Foxconn is the start of those fixes as well as Chen cleaning house at the top.

    Toyota and GM battle out at the top, but there is plenty of room for other companies, even companies with small but very stable market shares.

    Posted via CB10
    Carjackd and Mecca EL like this.
    02-03-14 10:20 AM
  18. garnok's Avatar
    [QUOTE=LoganSix;9953728][QUOTE=garnok;9953701]

    TH did the necessary cuts to jobs, buildings and etc... to "right size" the company. Before TH, RIM bought QNX, TAT, Paratek and other companies to start the transition to a different platform. The only fix left to do is marketing and providing the eight devices for each market. The deal with Foxconn is the start of those fixes as well as Chen cleaning house at the top.

    Toyota and GM battle out at the top, but there is plenty of room for other companies, even companies with small but very stable market shares.

    Posted via CB10
    i agree with first statement sure...BB slim down their numbers, and make it more cost effective..but my opinion is their consumer market product, it dragged them down..if they want to be more effective they should leave it. focus on what people wants from BB MDM Solution, BBM, their in car platform (lot less competitors and can improve BB market position, just like iPod and iPhone change apple)

    second statement i disagree..automotive business and smartphone business is different, in Car it is about the brand, product (hardware), pricingand the after sales in smartphone people they want to buy phone with great brand, hardware specs, after sales, pricing, ecosystem, apps....
    02-03-14 10:34 AM
  19. LoganSix's Avatar
    [QUOTE=garnok;9953787][QUOTE=LoganSix;9953728]

    i agree with first statement sure...BB slim down their numbers, and make it more cost effective..but my opinion is their consumer market product, it dragged them down..if they want to be more effective they should leave it. focus on what people wants from BB MDM Solution, BBM, their in car platform (lot less competitors and can improve BB market position, just like iPod and iPhone change apple)

    second statement i disagree..automotive business and smartphone business is different, in Car it is about the brand, product (hardware), pricingand the after sales in smartphone people they want to buy phone with great brand, hardware specs, after sales, pricing, ecosystem, apps....
    They should leave a market to be more effective? Goes against what I learned in business school. Business consumer and private consumer are overlapping markets. You don't leave the market with so few differences.

    Car buyers look for brand, features, price and reputation and phone buyers look for brand, features, price and reputation.

    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL and ital1 like this.
    02-03-14 10:50 AM
  20. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I
    BB10 has up to now done away with BIS Plans and the HUGE advantage that BlackBerry once had.
    The fact that Androids are growing so quickly in these markets and BBOS is declining suggests that BIS has less and less appeal even in those markets. I'm of the belief that BIS absolutely served its purpose in another time, but the time has passed by. Even if BlackBerry 10 devices used BIS, I doubt most people would know or care anymore. It's time for BlackBerry to come up with some other differentiators. It's not enough to have an OS that addresses many of the shortcomings of the older platform, they need something unique besides the keyboard.
    02-03-14 10:53 AM
  21. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    As far as I'm concerned I just want Chen to keep talking...the more this guy talks..the better this company does. They drop 5 billion on paper...Chen says a few words and everything is Kool & the Gang. It's like it's no biggie..."Keep Moving". When Thor took over a lot of people thought he was the savior of this company but I never bought into it. Just by opening his mouth and muttering a few words....Chen has done more for this company in three months than anyone has done in three year. I've bought into Chen.

    Posted Via my Kick @ss BlackBerry Z30
    I'm certainly not a fan of Chen, considering his history but I genuinely believe he's a good fit as CEO of BlackBerry.
    One man cannot save a company, that takes a talented team with vision, I believe Chen is putting that team in place.

    May the tide turn for BlackBerry.
    Carjackd likes this.
    02-03-14 11:17 AM
  22. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    .Chen has done more for this company in three months than anyone has done in three year. I've bought into Chen.
    I've not bought into him yet. I'll reserve judgement for when they are 12, 18 months and 24 months into his tenure. As much as it's fun to bash Thorsten, Mike and Jim, a lot of the things we're seeing now were started under tenures before John Chen. He's getting credit for coming up with things that actually began under Thorsten.
    02-03-14 11:22 AM
  23. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    I've not bought into him yet. I'll reserve judgement for when they are 12, 18 months and 24 months into his tenure. As much as it's fun to bash Thorsten, Mike and Jim, a lot of the things we're seeing now were started under tenures before John Chen. He's getting credit for coming up with things that actually began under Thorsten.
    Yes, he is and that's not fair. In the same way Thorsten is based for the failures of Mike and Jim.

    At the end of the day, mistakes were made and we can blame whom ever but that doesn't help BlackBerry.
    02-03-14 11:25 AM
  24. trsbbs's Avatar
    To me, at least, the message from JC BlackBerry is mixed and confused.

    I hope they are able to get their act together as far as what they are and are not going to do.

    Mixed messages from BlackBerry should and must be a thing of the past.

    CB10 via Verizon Z10. 10.2.1.1925
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-03-14 11:26 AM
  25. wincyUt's Avatar
    Is there even one "emerging market" where the BB10 lineup has sold better than the legacy devices it is replacing?

    BlackBerries were popular because they had "cheap" data plans for email and BBM. BB10 has up to now done away with BIS Plans and the HUGE advantage that BlackBerry once had. People could buy a used BlackBerry fairly cheap and they could afford the lower monthly BIS BlackBerry Data Plan. But now BlackBerry is on an equal planing field when it comes to the monthly data plans....

    1 billion smartphones shipped worldwide in 2013 | PCWorld

    It is impossible for BlackBerry to compete on pricing alone in these markets, yet their devices don't have a key feature that separates them from the pack anymore. There is a difference in a company saying they will sell to consumers, and consumers buying their products. Pricing has been an issues, but it is not the core reason that people stayed away from the platform.
    You maybe right with your prognostics, but you have to always remember that the outcomes change as the dynamics/variables change. The only absolute in life is death and, maybe, taxes
    But the point I was responding to, was that the word CONSUMERS has no limitations or correlations to specific physical location. In other words, a consumer is a consumer whether he or she is in the USA or the remotest jungle of Borneo. So lets assume that Foxconn can successfully sell lots of "BB10" phones in the emerging markets, then John Chen stands correct that BlackBerry has not abandoned the consumer market. An example is Caterpillar, a US company, makes most of its revenue from the developing and emerging markets.
    The bottom line is PROFITS.
    ital1 likes this.
    02-03-14 11:27 AM
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