10-04-13 01:17 PM
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  1. Jeremy Bivens's Avatar
    That's a poor comparison, because the overall size of the market is so much different. BBRY didn't lose customers as much as its growth simply didn't match the market. But now, that market growth has slowed. Could what happened to BBRY happen to Apple? Sure it could. But it would happen a lot slower, because market growth is flattening. Also, 2013 hasn't had a 2007 iPhone-like device to trigger wholesale market changes, and there's no sign of one coming. Remember, without the iPhone, BlackBerry's primary competition would have been Android devices with physical keyboards, trackpads and a BBOS like interface; I'm not saying BBRY would have won that battle, but it would have been a lot closer than what we've seen.
    Actually, in a generalist sense, the comparison was pretty accurate. The size of the market holds no bearing in the comparison I made. In summary, all I said was, what the BlackBerry was in its prime, the iPhone is during its prime. I made no reference to any company taking Apple's spot, when, nor how long it would take, so that pretty much negates the rest of your post.
    09-19-13 10:33 AM
  2. rigwrecker's Avatar
    Keep in mind that Apple is in the same situation BlackBerry was n years ago: a solid foundation and consumer support. BlackBerry was reluctant to change bc they had a solid class of users that they didn't want to disrupt. Same with Apple. According to the numbers, iPhone users r happy with size, OS, etc. That puts u in a corner competitively bc u have to decide between innovating and possibly losing your core users, or becoming complacent and letting the world pass u by and getting side swiped by innovation.

    Red or green pill situation.

    Posted via CB10
    It may not have been the best comparison, but it was similar. I disagree though, about the reasoning, in the beginning anyways. I think the Jim/Mike Dynamic Duo, were doing the Ostrich or had blinders on if you will, not fully because of the loyal subscriber base. They just were totally naive to the level that a mobile phone market could get to. When they did finally pull their collective heads out of the sand, the damage was done and they were playing catch up. The BB Storm says it all (or didn't, as it were).
    meh, 20/20 hindsight...
    09-19-13 10:35 AM
  3. jh07's Avatar
    What numbers? BlackBerry probably went down 1.47% today on the account of WSJ yesterday rumors .
    I don't think that the article was bashing Apple. Everyone (analyst) are just speculating.
    Just in case you didn't know, BlackBerry is the most bashed and trashed company out there right now.

    Just




    Posted via CB10
    I realize how BlackBerry is bashed and the users. Back in 07 everyone thought my BlackBerry was cool, now it's you live in the dark ages, until I show them the phone. Most people that don't have BlackBerrys already don't have a clue what's available to them. BlackBerry sucks at marketing.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-13 10:37 AM
  4. clmazda's Avatar
    That's a great article!

    Posted via CB10 with my Z10
    09-19-13 10:40 AM
  5. Jeremy Bivens's Avatar
    It may not have been the best comparison, but it was similar. I disagree though, about the reasoning, in the beginning anyways. I think the Jim/Mike Dynamic Duo, were doing the Ostrich or had blinders on if you will, not fully because of the loyal subscriber base. They just were totally naive to the level that a mobile phone market could get to. When they did finally pull their collective heads out of the sand, the damage was done and they were playing catch up. The BB Storm says it all (or didn't, as it were).
    meh, 20/20 hindsight...
    I can agree with you here. I think there are many reasons to BlackBerry's fall. One being their stubbornness to keep up, another being too loyal to legacy fans. For all I know, they probably couldn't think of anything to change! Its easy to underestimate the market esp. during BlackBerry's prime. There wasn't much competition and what BlackBerry was doing was working. They certainly had the cash flow to try something new, though. Overall, they rode the gravy train til it stopped.


    Posted via CB10
    09-19-13 11:06 AM
  6. jh07's Avatar
    I can agree with you here. I think there are many reasons to BlackBerry's fall. One being their stubbornness to keep up, another being too loyal to legacy fans. For all I know, they probably couldn't think of anything to change! Its easy to underestimate the market esp. during BlackBerry's prime. There wasn't much competition and what BlackBerry was doing was working. They certainly had the cash flow to try something new, though. Overall, they rode the gravy train til it stopped.


    Posted via CB10
    They lost investors a lot of money. June 08 $145 a share end of December 08 $ 40. Not exact numbers but close. I don't think it's been above $90 since that.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-13 11:19 AM
  7. rigwrecker's Avatar
    My $0.02 regarding the segregated release, is that the U.S. (mostly, sorry... this is just the way I see it) has been a forerunner in bashing the BB brand. Ok. Given, The Z10 was the first BB10 OS phone and there really wasn't a phone release prior to that with any wow factor. So here is where it's up in the air whether it's good/bad for the brand it's self.

    ? - Release late in the U.S. to gain traction elsewhere, in Pro BB regions, before the real heavy criticism starts in the (historically) U.S.
    ? - The U.S. is such a huge market that if numbers don't come in, well... a product is generally going to be marginal. Unless you can rally the rest of the world (not going to happen) behind your product.

    Idk who is in charge of release date demographics for the Z30, but I think BB should just lay it all an the line, open the flood gates and release the damn phone everywhere. That being said, I would imagine the $900M in previous BB10 phone inventory has got something to do with it as well.
    As far as the Z10 & Q10 go... GREAT phones, I have 3 X Z10's and 1 X Q10, but..... FIRE SALE! Out with the old, in with the new...

    just my opinion.
    Last edited by rigwrecker; 09-19-13 at 11:44 AM.
    09-19-13 11:31 AM
  8. epyon52328's Avatar
    Apple coming out with another iPhone isn't big news. BlackBerry coming out with a design Apple doesn't have and gives some what of a choice between the Z30 and S4 is huge. But unfortunately the way BlackBerry advertises its devices most people aren't going to know about it. BlackBerry is its own worst enemy. Dam shame.

    Posted via CB10
    It's not just that it's the media as well. In the states if you turn on CNN or Fox News you see reports on the new iphone. You don't see that for BlackBerry, Windows, or even most Android phones. And of course all the reporters are issued BlackBerry's but use iphone's in their personal life, so which one gets the free press?

    Sent from my Q10
    09-19-13 11:35 AM
  9. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Actually, in a generalist sense, the comparison was pretty accurate. The size of the market holds no bearing in the comparison I made. In summary, all I said was, what the BlackBerry was in its prime, the iPhone is during its prime. I made no reference to any company taking Apple's spot, when, nor how long it would take, so that pretty much negates the rest of your post.
    On the contrary, the capacity for market growth always matters. In 2007, the capacity for market growth was huge. Today, it's less so, and that places everything in a different light. It doesn't mean things will turn out any differently, but you can't make that specific comparison without considering each entity's position relative to others.

    It's not just that it's the media as well. In the states if you turn on CNN or Fox News you see reports on the new iphone. You don't see that for BlackBerry, Windows, or even most Android phones. And of course all the reporters are issued BlackBerry's but use iphone's in their personal life, so which one gets the free press?

    Sent from my Q10
    They cover the Galaxy, which is the best-selling Android phone. They don't cover Windows Phone or BBRY as much because each have relatively low marketshare. It's not as though each has a quarter of the market yet two are being ignored; the media goes where the eyeballs are.
    09-19-13 11:49 AM
  10. jh07's Avatar
    My $0.02 regarding the segregated release, is that the U.S. (mostly, sorry... this is just the way I see it) has been a forerunner in bashing the BB brand. Ok. Given, The Z10 was the first BB10 OS phone and there really wasn't a phone release prior to that with any wow factor. So here is where it's up in the air whether it's good/bad for the brand it's self.

    ? - Release late in the U.S. to gain traction elsewhere, in Pro BB regions, before the real heavy criticism starts in the (historically) U.S.
    ? - The U.S. is such a huge market that if numbers don't come in, well... a product is generally going to be marginal. Unless you can rally the rest of the world (not going to happen) behind your product.

    Idk who is in charge of release date demographics for the Z30, but I think BB should just lay it all an the line, open the flood gates and release the damn phone everywhere. That being said, I don't know how much the $900M in previous BB10 phone inventory has to do with it.
    As far as the Z10 & Q10 go... GREAT phones, I have 3 X Z10's and 1 X Q10, but..... FIRE SALE! Out with the old, in with the new...

    just my opinion.
    First the $900 million is probably going to get written off as a loss, so stock pricing is going to go down. Not good for investors who might want to keep BlackBerry as a whole. I know that's what I'd like to see, current management isn't doing much, unless I'm missing something. Zero marketing almost . Some of the articles I read, investors would do better buying pieces of the company.

    They have to get a larger percentage in the US, the way their numbers are, the overseas market isn't enough.

    Your 100% correct, let all the dam phones out. People who may want to switch to BlackBerry, might not want to wait for the Z30 to be released in the US. They see the darn S4 all over and all the apps that are readily available, I would imagine a lot are going for the S4. I just find it hard to believe that they can't give even a month when it's going to get to the carriers, something. All of us BlackBerry users knew about the Z30 for a while, but of course we got are Z and Q cause we needed it, just like were going to need that Z30. We're a impatient group, but we're not going anywhere.
    Doesn't make any sense why there not selling out their inventory, they had the same issue with the PlayBook, wrote them off as a loss, then had a FIRE SALE. They went like hotcakes, especially when it was said it's being upgraded to 10.
    I went to a Tmobile store to get a new sim card for my 9900 that I was setting up for my mother. I asked the girl why they don't advertise BlackBerrys, were ignored. True or not, but she said her district manager stated that if BlackBerry wasn't going to spend money on a

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-13 12:18 PM
  11. jh07's Avatar
    Pre posted. If blackberry wasn't going to spend money in advertising their own products, why should we? They have the iPhone and Samsung to sell and both of them spend money on advertising.
    Just my opinion, that BlackBerry is still their own worst enemy.
    Imagine if Apple gave up and let the Newton be their last tablet.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-13 12:23 PM
  12. Tina2488's Avatar
    Finally, a change for a while. Bashing Apple and not Blackebrry? Good to hear!
    09-19-13 12:32 PM
  13. BerryWizard's Avatar
    No plans apple wants to diversify? They came out with a smaller ipad because everyone else was, they came out with a cheaper phone cause everyone else was. Of course they want to expand they want to do it on their own terms though I guess

    Sent From Q10/HTC One
    "Cheaper phone "

    ??
    What cheap phone are you talking about bros?
    The 5c (color) ?
    That is 90 $ less than the 5s for an iPhone 5 of last year specs and a cheap colored plastic cover ... they ain't nothing cheap on the price of the 5c.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-13 12:40 PM
  14. jh07's Avatar
    It's not just that it's the media as well. In the states if you turn on CNN or Fox News you see reports on the new iphone. You don't see that for BlackBerry, Windows, or even most Android phones. And of course all the reporters are issued BlackBerry's but use iphone's in their personal life, so which one gets the free press?

    Sent from my Q10
    Yeah the media is horrible. Remember maybe a few months ago, the media was making a big deal how Apple has a way to remotely see where your iPhone is and wipe it out. No mention of course that BlackBerry has had that for years.
    Do you think that the networks are stopping BlackBerry from buying air time for commercials? Heck, maybe they are, cause as far as Florida, if I seen 10 commercials since January that's a lot. No I'm not glued to every station all the time.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-13 12:50 PM
  15. Rudee66's Avatar
    BBRY's Z30 gives consumers what they want
    No it doesn't. What consumers clearly want is larger screens on their Android, Windows and iOs devices. As far as Blackberry goes, consumers have blinders on, and for good reasons. They don't want to risk signing up on a 2 year contract when they don't even know if the company will be around in the near future. The vast majority of consumers are not even looking at Blackberry as an option. Choosing a Blackberry device is an unpopular choice, and no impressionable kid these days buying a mobile phone wants to be part of the unpopular crowd. They want to fit it. There is so little interest in Blackberry devices these days, that a putting a larger screen on a Blackberry device is akin to putting lipstick on pig. The new Z30 will just add to a future inventory write down, similar to the most recent one announced today.

    BlackBerry Ltd poised for writedown as inventory of unsold smartphones swells to almost $1-billion | Financial Post
    09-19-13 04:01 PM
  16. Bobert_123's Avatar
    No it doesn't. What consumers clearly want is larger screens on their Android, Windows and iOs devices. As far as Blackberry goes, consumers have blinders on, and for good reasons. They don't want to risk signing up on a 2 year contract when they don't even know if the company will be around in the near future. The vast majority of consumers are not even looking at Blackberry as an option. Choosing a Blackberry device is an unpopular choice, and no impressionable kid these days buying a mobile phone wants to be part of the unpopular crowd. They want to fit it. There is so little interest in Blackberry devices these days, that a putting a larger screen on a Blackberry device is akin to putting lipstick on pig. The new Z30 will just add to a future inventory write down, similar to the most recent one announced today.

    BlackBerry Ltd poised for writedown as inventory of unsold smartphones swells to almost $1-billion | Financial Post
    So your suggesting BlackBerry NOT try to give consumers choice? You DON'T want BlackBerry releasing new devices because it could result in a write down? Thank god your not in charge at BB because we probably would have never have gotten a touch screen because consumers "only want it from android ios, and wp".
    Last edited by Bobert_123; 09-19-13 at 05:28 PM.
    09-19-13 04:56 PM
  17. Rudee66's Avatar
    So your suggesting BlackBerry NOT try to give consumers choice?
    I'm suggesting it's too little too late. If Blackberry wanted to give consumers what they wanted, they would of done it 5 years ago when it would of made a difference. They've lost their audience. It's akin to a live band at the local pub playing their favorite hit song on the last set of the night, five minutes before closing time. It doesn't matter how good they play the song, when most of the audience has left.
    09-19-13 05:15 PM
  18. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    getting a Z30 as soon as its out!! .. Looks like an awesome phone .. and especially with os 10.2!!
    09-19-13 05:57 PM
  19. DS1331's Avatar
    I'm suggesting it's too little too late. If Blackberry wanted to give consumers what they wanted, they would of done it 5 years ago when it would of made a difference. They've lost their audience. It's akin to a live band at the local pub playing their favorite hit song on the last set of the night, five minutes before closing time. It doesn't matter how good they play the song, when most of the audience has left.
    Any more "akin"s??? You seem to love them

    Sent From Q10/HTC One
    09-19-13 05:58 PM
  20. AfroZepher's Avatar
    At the end of the day Apple has enough clout (or magical marketing pixi fog dust) to go against the trend and still do amazing numbers. . . the comparison between BB's lateness to the touchscreen game and iOS sticking to a smaller screen size is an interesting one but one that neglects the fact that iPhone has an almost a cult like hold on consumers in a market that they helped mature. . . the "clikity-clack" CrackBerry Kool-aid wasn't as potent as the iSheep flavor is now and as such the Z30 will still do a tiny fraction in sales compared to the new iPhone. . .
    09-20-13 01:07 PM
  21. bpmg4u's Avatar
    It's too bad Apple is so darn stubborn. If they were to really incorporate things that users ask for they would be unbeatable.

    Ios + 4.5-5 inch screen + removable battery + NFC + real multitasking + better email/communication abilities = best smartphone ever made!
    I think your list is a "wish-list" for what would make the fruit-phone-a-day "even better" ... right? So here goes with "more:"

    ... + HDMI out + SDHC + Hub + Notification LED + easy disassemble (iPs are 'glued shut') + NON-proprietary connector/s + 1000s of LOCAL decently-paid (ie. NON-slave) employees + ber-secure O/S + Private, Secure GLOBAL Network + ...

    Anyone else want to add <I could go all day> ... ?
    09-20-13 02:24 PM
  22. M65c02's Avatar
    . . . there are many reasons to BlackBerry's fall. One being their stubbornness to keep up, another being too loyal to legacy fans. For all I know, they probably couldn't think of anything to change! Its easy to underestimate the market esp. during BlackBerry's prime. There wasn't much competition and what BlackBerry was doing was working. They certainly had the cash flow to try something new, though. Overall, they rode the gravy train til it stopped.
    Read the Bold

    On the contrary, the capacity for market growth always matters. In 2007, the capacity for market growth was huge. Today, it's less so, and that places everything in a different light. It doesn't mean things will turn out any differently, but you can't make that specific comparison without considering each entity's position relative to others.
    They cover the Galaxy, which is the best-selling Android phone. They don't cover Windows Phone or BBRY as much because each have relatively low marketshare. It's not as though each has a quarter of the market yet two are being ignored; the media goes where the eyeballs are.
    Plain, simple and clear! logic!

    I'm suggesting it's too little too late. If Blackberry wanted to give consumers what they wanted, they would of done it 5 years ago when it would of made a difference. They've lost their audience. It doesn't matter how good they play the song, when most of the audience has left.
    Or, I might add how good they play a new song if there's no audience to hear it. Still have to get it to be heard and the goodwill has long since run out--in relative terms of course.

    At the end of the day Apple has enough clout (or magical marketing pixi fog dust) to go against the trend and still do amazing numbers. . . the comparison between BB's lateness to the touchscreen game and iOS sticking to a smaller screen size is an interesting one but one that neglects the fact that iPhone has an almost cult like hold on consumers in a market that they helped mature. . . the "clikity-clack" CrackBerry Kool-aid wasn't as potent as the iSheep flavor is now and as such the Z30 will still do a tiny fraction in sales compared to the new iPhone. . .
    Now what isn't there to understand. Crystal Clear .... Apple has always had a cult following. The cult, as stated, has at times grown restless but Apple is into its 4th generation of followers extending from micro-computers, to desktops, laptops, ipods, smart phones, and Ipad product lines beginning with the original geek nomenclature termed shortly after their beginning circa 1972. Whew, a long time ago.

    I have no idea what BB is thinking by releasing the Z30 a week before quarterly results (actually I do know) ....And, I have no idea what BB is doing releasing their Z30, only 3 months after the Z10 has had the potential to become a player. (On intro, the Z10 was ridiculous, just a malfunctioning toy March through half of June--until 10.1 and 10.2 leaks could be installed) Unlike Apple, the base of BB10 users is too small to keep cannibalizing as a successive new foundations for launching new phones. No one stayed away from the Z10 because of its screen size. . . . Need a whole new approach BB, don't follow the Apple model, it's only applicable to Apple.

    WHAT IS THE TARGETED CONSUMER FOR BB .... other than conversion of a few legacy users to the Q's.???
    09-20-13 02:33 PM
  23. Bobert_123's Avatar
    Read the Bold



    Plain, simple and clear! logic!



    Or, I might add how good they play a new song if there's no audience to hear it. Still have to get it to be heard and the goodwill has long since run out--in relative terms of course.



    Now what isn't there to understand. Crystal Clear .... Apple has always had a cult following. The cult, as stated, has at times grown restless but Apple is into its 4th generation of followers extending from micro-computers, to desktops, laptops, ipods, smart phones, and Ipad product lines beginning with the original geek nomenclature termed shortly after their beginning circa 1972. Whew, a long time ago.

    I have no idea what BB is thinking by releasing the Z30 a week before quarterly results (actually I do know) ....And, I have no idea what BB is doing releasing their Z30, only 3 months after the Z10 has had the potential to become a player. (On intro, the Z10 was ridiculous, just a malfunctioning toy March through half of June--until 10.1 and 10.2 leaks could be installed) Unlike Apple, the base of BB10 users is too small to keep cannibalizing as a successive new foundations for launching new phones. No one stayed away from the Z10 because of its screen size. . . . Need a whole new approach BB, don't follow the Apple model, it's only applicable to Apple.

    WHAT IS THE TARGETED CONSUMER FOR BB .... other than conversion of a few legacy users to the Q's.???
    BlackBerry's targeted market is for people who want to get stuff done!! LOL

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Bobert_123; 09-20-13 at 04:10 PM.
    09-20-13 02:59 PM
  24. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    I'm actually wondering if they're chasing Android at all frankly. They might feel perfectly comfortable as a (relatively) low-volume premium player in the smartphone race, similar to how Mac is positioned against PC. There doesn't seem to be much indication that Apple plans to diversify, which is what they'd need to do if they want to battle the giant that is Android.

    Posted via CB10
    This. I don't think Apple is really trying to catch up with Google. They are doing nothing but reinforcing their own user experience, and Google has no choice but to port almost all of their services to iOS else they lose out too big. Apple is actually in quite a good place.

    Apple is not chasing BB. If the only thing that determined how good a phone was was the screen size, then HTC should have demolished Samsung because they were producing way bigger phones before Samsung even launched the Note Series.

    iPhones sell well because of the software, apps, and services. The Z30 will not sell well due to the lack of it.
    09-20-13 03:42 PM
  25. ankush77's Avatar
    pros and cons
    09-20-13 03:53 PM
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