09-29-14 10:20 PM
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  1. mikeo007's Avatar
    1. it's 100% true I was trying to find a link for it but I saw it in New York Times and a few other journals a long time ago.
    That article and others like it are 100% false. They've all been disputed and found to be wrong. The studies are published by analytics companies who specialize in SURPRISE: advertising your app for you.

    Here's some actual info from developers, you know, the ones who actually make and sell the apps?
    I Am an Apple App Store Zombie | News & Opinion | PCMag.com
    2. People like me have the Android version of SnapChat and the BlackBerry version for Snap2Chat?

    Why?
    BlackBerry Native
    Snap2Chat has push notifications, it has a better feel and more customizable (making up words I know) BlackBerry Features
    vs
    Android APK
    Snapchat has more features like reply with text

    I did buy Snap2Chat and love it.

    3. small population but those small 3rd party devs won't even get seen in Google Play vs 1000s of Apps in App World once it's cleaned up.
    What part don't you get? People like you are the MINORITY. Crackberry forum users are not a representative population. Developers can easily tell you this. I'm a developer, and I'M telling you this.
    06-18-14 10:38 AM
  2. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    10.3 needs to improve the overall performance of .apk apps A LOT if they want this deal to pay out!

    Posted on CB 10 and typed on the best Keyboard ever
    The problem is Google Services but 3rd party devs can take advantage of that which surprisingly they haven't so far. Nemory seems to be the only one.
    06-18-14 10:39 AM
  3. WZFoster's Avatar
    This is probably designed more to help the transition from BB7 to BB10 devices. When someone needs to pick between taking an iPhone and a BB10, this should help them lean towards BB10. I believe this move is designed to help maintain the current user base more than it is to build the user base.

    Posted via CB10
    Skyforever and anon(6038817) like this.
    06-18-14 10:40 AM
  4. mikeo007's Avatar
    Well that's the kicker. Not seeing proof of any "good fish" isn't because the fish aren't there, but because there doesn't seem to be very many "good fishermen" going after them. Native apps aren't better for BB10 simply for "being native". They still need to be well developed apps from talented developers with the experience to build them. Which has always been the root of the problem for BB10 development. Any talented developer who sails into that tiny area to fish, could reel in huge rewards.
    But who in their right mind would go for the small fish only?
    A high quality app is a high quality app, regardless of platform.
    If I make the best app, and make it an Android app, I can now go after the Android crowd and the BB crowd. I'm the best app on BB so I get all those customers, and I'm among the best on Android, so I get a huge boost there. There's no advantage to being a native dev.
    06-18-14 10:41 AM
  5. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    That article and others like it are 100% false. They've all been disputed and found to be wrong. The studies are published by analytics companies who specialize in SURPRISE: advertising your app for you.

    Here's some actual info from developers, you know, the ones who actually make and sell the apps?
    I Am an Apple App Store Zombie | News & Opinion | PCMag.com


    What part don't you get? People like you are the MINORITY. Crackberry forum users are not a representative population. Developers can easily tell you this. I'm a developer, and I'M telling you this.
    no offence but I looked at your apps and they wouldn't appeal to the normal consumer anyways. Nemory seems to be the only person in that field who knows how to play.

    Try putting your apps in Google Play and see how many downloads you get

    Let's put your theory in a real world scenario here...

    Docushortcut is the only thing I would actually use geared towards productivity, but there 1000s of apps already like it on Android.

    Actually lets make this more fun. Make a 1$ app in BlackBerry World and also make it free in Google Play, now lets see how many downloads you will get.
    06-18-14 10:42 AM
  6. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    This is probably designed more to help the transition from BB7 to BB10 devices. When someone needs to pick between taking an iPhone and a BB10, this should help them lean towards BB10. I believe this move is designed to help maintain the current user base more than it is to build the user base.

    Posted via CB10
    Bingo. You are spot on with this analysis.

    This is to stop the bleeding, not gain customers.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    anon(5818411) and koebi90 like this.
    06-18-14 10:42 AM
  7. mikeo007's Avatar
    no offence but I looked at your apps and they wouldn't appeal to the normal consumer anyways. Nemory seems to be the only person in that field who knows how to play.

    Try putting your apps in Google Play and see how many downloads you get

    Let's put your theory in a real world scenario here...
    I've pulled most of my apps due to upkeep issues. But regardless, every app makes the market.
    My BB world apps are exclusive to BB because they use BB only features. I have no interest in putting them on the Android store. I'm part of a bigger group for Android and iOS apps, I have no need to self publish.

    My apps aren't the concern here anyway, I have no vested interest in BB World. It was only a hobby, and one that's been mostly a waste of time. Lets look at devs that have actually invested substantially in BB development, I'm not the only dev saying this. Look at Toysoft, filearchivehaven, and many of the other dedicated BB developers. They're all miffed by recent changes.
    sentimentGX4 and arvind1983 like this.
    06-18-14 10:48 AM
  8. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    I've pulled most of my apps due to upkeep issues. But regardless, every app makes the market.
    My BB world apps are exclusive to BB because they use BB only features. I have no interest in putting them on the Android store. I'm part of a bigger group for Android and iOS apps, I have no need to self publish.


    Anyway, I'm not the only dev saying this. Hell, look at Toysoft, filearchivehaven, and many of the other dedicated BB developers. They're all miffed by recent changes.
    to be honest I don't think they have anything to fear IF BlackBerry World cleans it up to only having 1000s of apps by getting rid of ports, non functional and "App for ..."

    Only time will tell but try to help them fix BlackBerry world instead of complaining

    You guys also need to gear your app focus on google services type apps, utility and productivity apps. The sweetest thing about that is you can completely copy any one of those popular apps and make it for BB10.
    06-18-14 10:51 AM
  9. Iggy City's Avatar
    Native BB10 utility apps will always be in demand.

    For example, I don't expect to see an LED app on Amazon that works with BB10.
    anon(5818411) likes this.
    06-18-14 10:52 AM
  10. krackerjack69's Avatar
    I seriously am not sure how I feel about this! lol
    I have been reading a lot of positive and negative comments on this announcement.
    Will we have the same security from malaware and viruses from amazon store android apps? What exactly is BB giving up in order to have or get access to amazon store?
    The positive might be the decline of bashing from the tech bloggers and other news groups about lack of apps etc..
    Things that make you go hmmmm
    06-18-14 10:53 AM
  11. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Why wouldn't they? Until recently, if you wanted to run an Android app, you had to go through the side-loading process. This was fine for the enthusiasts and power users, but the average person wouldn't bother.

    BlackBerry World was still the easiest way to get apps.

    With 10.2.1, you could install APKs, but you still had to seek them out or install the Amazon Appstore or Snap yourself.

    BlackBerry World was still the easiest way to get apps.

    Now that the Amazon Appstore will ship with BB10 phones, BlackBerry World will no longer stand out as the easiest way to get apps.

    There is no reason, no incentive for developers to continue native app development for BB10.

    Just do the math.

    Develop a native BB10 app, and your potential customers are limited only to those who own a BB10 device. That's a very small market share.

    Develop an Android app and publish it in Google Play and Amazon Appstore and you have a far greater reach and customer base - INCLUDING BB10 owners!

    Why even bother with native BB10 apps at this point unless you are developing specifically for enterprise use or another niche area?

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    Short term, I agree. But let's look at the long term. Let's say the Amazon store closes the app gap and helps BB sell more phones to consumers. BB now gets to a point where they are making money in HW, and enterprise SW. Let's say BB even gets back into third spot in the race. Now we're talking. They can go back to devs and offer them incentives to build native BB apps. They can pay them, allow them to keep all profits, etc, etc. It's all about leverage. Right now BB has none as they are not selling BB10 devioces. If the # of handset sales increases dramatically over time then they have a hammer they can use to get native apps and eventually get rid of the android run time and kill the partnership with amazon. It's all baby steps. Rome wasn't built in a day. It will take time to build the BB10 eco system. Just like it took iOS and Android time. The difference is they had the luxury of it whereas BB does not, hence this announcement with Amazon.
    Skyforever and arvind1983 like this.
    06-18-14 10:54 AM
  12. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    Short term, I agree. But let's look at the long term. Let's say the Amazon store closes the app gap and helps BB sell more phones to consumers. BB now gets to a point where they are making money in HW, and enterprise SW. Let's say BB even gets back into third spot in the race. Now we're talking. They can go back to devs and offer them incentives to build native BB apps. They can pay them, allow them to keep all profits, etc, etc. It's all about leverage. Right now BB has none as they are not selling BB10 devioces. If the # of handset sales increases dramatically over time then they have a hammer they can use to get native apps and eventually get rid of the android run time and kill the partnership with amazon. It's all baby steps. Rome wasn't built in a day. It will take time to build the BB10 eco system. Just like it took iOS and Android time. The difference is they had the luxury of it whereas BB does not, hence this announcement with Amazon.
    during the short term fix they should fix up BlackBerry World so it it's corrupt like it currently is. Make people want to go in it except for people like me that try their hardest not to even go in BlackBerry World. I choose Snap and Beta Zone over it any day haha

    I can't even find any of the quality apps because there is a bunch of garbage like: ports that are never updated, "App for ..." and non functional apps
    06-18-14 10:55 AM
  13. mikeo007's Avatar
    to be honest I don't think they have anything to fear IF BlackBerry World cleans it up to only having 1000s of apps by getting rid of ports, non functional and "App for ..."

    Only time will tell but try to help them fix BlackBerry world instead of complaining
    See my earlier comment (pasted below to save you time).
    There's still NO incentive for people to develop native apps. The good native utility apps will continue to sit in BB World, raking in 10's of dollars for their developers, which isn't enough for anyone to live on.

    Why limit yourself to a tiny number of people, when you could make the best app not only on that platform, but also market it to hundreds of millions on a bigger platform.

    But who in their right mind would go for the small fish only?
    A high quality app is a high quality app, regardless of platform.
    If I make the best app, and make it an Android app, I can now go after the Android crowd and the BB crowd. I'm the best app on BB so I get all those customers, and I'm among the best on Android, so I get a huge boost there. There's no advantage to being a native dev.
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-18-14 10:56 AM
  14. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    See my earlier comment (pasted below to save you time).
    There's still NO incentive for people to develop native apps. The good native utility apps will continue to sit in BB World, raking in 10's of dollars for their developers, which isn't enough for anyone to live on.

    Why limit yourself to a tiny number of people, when you could make the best app not only on that platform, but also market it to hundreds of millions on a bigger platform.
    Like I said above lets put this into a real life scenerio

    no offence but I looked at your apps and they wouldn't appeal to the normal consumer anyways. Nemory seems to be the only person in that field who knows how to play.

    Try putting your apps in Google Play and see how many downloads you get

    Let's put your theory in a real world scenario here...

    Docushortcut is the only thing I would actually use geared towards productivity, but there 1000s of apps already like it on Android.

    Actually lets make this more fun. Make a 1$ app in BlackBerry World and also make it free in Google Play, now lets see how many downloads you will get.
    06-18-14 11:00 AM
  15. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    See my earlier comment (pasted below to save you time).
    .
    Anyways lts agree to disagree we have completely 2 different point and there is nothing that will change both of our minds.
    06-18-14 11:01 AM
  16. mikeo007's Avatar
    Like I said above lets put this into a real life scenerio
    So you're still missing the point. It wouldn't be a one or the other, it would be both. If I didn't limit myself to a single market, I'm always going to get more customers. I can do that easily right now with an Android app, not a native one.

    Besides, I already said not interested, nor possible. There are already real life scenarios out there.

    Here's one right from these forums (warning: it doesn't support your theory):

    http://forums.crackberry.com/develop...ndroid-843473/

    I'm not going to re-write my apps to prove what's already been proven.
    I'm not going to start charging $1 for an app that I've had for free from the beginning.
    Last edited by mikeo007; 06-18-14 at 11:32 AM.
    06-18-14 11:03 AM
  17. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    But who in their right mind would go for the small fish only?
    A high quality app is a high quality app, regardless of platform.
    If I make the best app, and make it an Android app, I can now go after the Android crowd and the BB crowd. I'm the best app on BB so I get all those customers, and I'm among the best on Android, so I get a huge boost there. There's no advantage to being a native dev.
    That's just it though... The question was as to whether it was a punch in the face to native devs. If a native developer makes the best option for BB10 devices, then BB10 users will use it. But I think there may be a disparity in what we consider a Native Developer.

    I wouldn't classify anybody who has the wherewithal to develop for multiple platforms and thus having the option to choose between native BB10 or Android as a Native Developer. At least, not in the loose manner that the term is used in this thread, as on this forum I read it as those who are developing apps for BB10 who unfortunately don't currently have the knowledge/resources/ability to give them the option to develop Android apps. If a Native Developer (in the sense that that's their only option) develops a quality/better app for BB10 than any similar Android app, then they will still reap the same rewards as before this recent announcement. The fact that they're missing out on a much larger demographic is not due to the recent announcement, nothing has changed for them. They're simply limited because they chose to develop for BB10 exclusively.
    06-18-14 11:03 AM
  18. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    See my earlier comment (pasted below to save you time).
    There's still NO incentive for people to develop native apps. The good native utility apps will continue to sit in BB World, raking in 10's of dollars for their developers, which isn't enough for anyone to live on.

    Why limit yourself to a tiny number of people, when you could make the best app not only on that platform, but also market it to hundreds of millions on a bigger platform.
    There will be incentive if BB gives you enough of one either through monetary compensation (assuming they can get back to a point where they have $$$ to throw around) or by removing Android support (and this can only be done if they sell enough devices which is what Amazon/Android is supposed to help them do).
    06-18-14 11:06 AM
  19. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Most intelligent comment on this thread to date. What has killed BB10 to this point is lack of development. The lack of development is due to several reasons...one major reason is the BB10's ability to run Android apps, therefore creating lazy dev's and very few native apps. This move just furthers this problem. BB needs to limit money on moves like this and spend it on attracting dev's that will create solid big name apps.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
    Lack of development is a symptom and not the cause of BB10's issues. The cause is lack of phone sales. Providing access to hundreds of thousands of apps should help to boost phone sales. This is all coming together, slowly but surely. With the improvements to the base OS, as well as Android runtime improvements, they are poised to really market BB10 heavily when 10.3.1 drops with the classic, windermere and Z50.
    06-18-14 11:09 AM
  20. cgk's Avatar
    I think people are missing the point - this is a signal BBRY doesn't care about native development beyond a very strong and narrow focus on enterprise app development for large orgs - there is nothing in here that says to me that they care at all if this leads to a minor increase or decrease in native app development. If people still want to do native app development for consumer focused apps, the infrastructure is still there but nothing says that BBRY actually cares anymore.
    JeepBB, techvisor and kevinnugent like this.
    06-18-14 11:09 AM
  21. mikeo007's Avatar
    That's just it though... The question was as to whether it was a punch in the face to native devs. If a native developer makes the best option for BB10 devices, then BB10 users will use it. But I think there may be a disparity in what we consider a Native Developer.

    I wouldn't classify anybody who has the wherewithal to develop for multiple platforms and thus having the option to choose between native BB10 or Android as a Native Developer. At least, not in the loose manner that the term is used in this thread, as on this forum I read it as those who are developing apps for BB10 who unfortunately don't currently have the knowledge/resources/ability to give them the option to develop Android apps. If a Native Developer (in the sense that that's their only option) develops a quality/better app for BB10 than any similar Android app, then they will still reap the same rewards as before this recent announcement. The fact that they're missing out on a much larger demographic is not due to the recent announcement, nothing has changed for them. They're simply limited because they chose to develop for BB10 exclusively.
    Even with all that being said, you still didn't address the problem of added competition.
    Here's a scenario: A developer has worked within the confines of the Blackberry native tools to create the best possible app that they can for the platform. That developer experienced moderate success being one of the "best" available in app world.
    In comes the official Android store, which is now positioned alongside the BB Store where my app is available. Whereas my competition was previously only a handful of people in the same boat as me, my users are now exposed to much larger development houses, with many more years of expertise already built into their apps (BB10 is still new remember, Android's been around for a while).

    So now many equivalent apps are available, except with the advantage that they had to do NOTHING to become my competition, and can instantly swoop in and take a portion of what used to be my pie.

    Here's a real world scenario:
    A small town courts some small businesses into opening up on their strip. The businesses have to adhere to the guidelines set out by the town, and are unable to open their businesses in any of the larger towns without first completely re-imagining them, and rebuilding them on their own dime. They can charge marginally higher prices because they're the only ones in town, and it's a tradeoff for their exclusivity on the strip.

    Then the city pays for and builds a Walmart, Home Depot, Old Navy and Best Buy on the same strip. You think the small business owners wouldn't be upset by this?
    06-18-14 11:12 AM
  22. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Even with all that being said, you still didn't address the problem of added competition.
    Here's a scenario: A developer has worked within the confines of the Blackberry native tools to create the best possible app that they can for the platform. That developer experienced moderate success being one of the "best" available in app world.
    In comes the official Android store, which is now positioned alongside the BB Store where my app is available. Whereas my competition was previously only a handful of people in the same boat as me, my users are now exposed to much larger development houses, with many more years of expertise already built into their apps (BB10 is still new remember, Android's been around for a while).

    So now many equivalent apps are available, except with the advantage that they had to do NOTHING to become my competition, and can instantly swoop in and take a portion of what used to be my pie.

    Here's a real world scenario:
    A small town courts some small businesses into opening up on their strip. The businesses have to adhere to the guidelines set out by the town, and are unable to open their businesses in any of the larger towns without first completely re-imagining them, and rebuilding them on their own dime. They can charge marginally higher prices because they're the only ones in town, and it's a tradeoff for their exclusivity on the strip.

    Then the city pays for and builds a Walmart, Home Depot, Old Navy and Best Buy on the same strip. You think the small business owners wouldn't be upset by this?
    Yeah, I get (and understand) what you're saying. But that would more accurately represent the disparity between Indie Development vs Commercial/Professional Development, and not so much about Native/Non-Native. Take two similar Indie apps, one Native and one Non, and the Native has the advantage over Non on BB10 devices (as well the same would apply to two similar Commercial/Professional apps).

    Sure, an Independent developer is going to have a severe disadvantage pitting apps against Commercial apps. But it's not like Blackberry surprised everybody with today's news. It's been years in the making, and BB has been pretty straightforward with their push towards Android app support and adoption. Everybody knew (or at least expected) that this day would eventually come.
    06-18-14 11:35 AM
  23. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    This is a double edged sword. There is no incentive to develop a native app for BlackBerry world now.

    Posted via CB10
    Where was the incentive ??

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3175
    techvisor likes this.
    06-18-14 11:36 AM
  24. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Where was the incentive ??

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3175
    Excellent question. And we are witnessing the answer play out in front of our eyes today.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    techvisor likes this.
    06-18-14 11:40 AM
  25. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    This is a double edged sword. There is no incentive to develop a native app for BlackBerry world now.

    Posted via CB10
    Agree. Probably would have been better off developing hardened Android devices at this point.

    Platform killed by terrible developer relations (opposite of Microsoft).

    I expect Tizen to overtake them in 2 years or so, maybe even less since Samsung is behind it.
    06-18-14 11:41 AM
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