09-29-14 11:20 PM
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  1. khehl's Avatar
    Doomsday for native devs
    if they clean up BlackBerry World it will actually be better for 3rd party developers since the majority of BB10 users are downloading APKs already..

    If BlackBerry World was cleaned up maybe people can actually look around in it without caution.
    06-18-14 10:55 AM
  2. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Any native devs out there feel like they've just been punched in the face by BlackBerry? I know I would.
    Why would they? It's not like anything has really changed. Technically, the Amazon app store has always been available for BB10. The Android runtime has always been a part of BB10 from its inception. And nothing has been taken away from the ability to develop native apps. A developer of BB10 native apps still has the advantage that their apps would perform and integrate better with a BB10 device than an Android app would, should they decide to put forth the effort to develop one. Nothing has really changed at all, except that BBRY is now comfortable enough with the Android Runtime that they feel they can stamp the Amazon Appstore logo on their marketing material.
    m1kr0, flyingsolid and BryanVilla like this.
    06-18-14 10:59 AM
  3. khehl's Avatar
    Why would they? It's not like anything has really changed. Technically, the Amazon app store has always been available for BB10. The Android runtime has always been a part of BB10 from its inception. And nothing has been taken away from the ability to develop native apps. A developer of BB10 native apps still has the advantage that their apps would perform and integrate better with a BB10 device than an Android app would, should they decide to put forth the effort to develop one. Nothing has really changed at all, except that BBRY is now comfortable enough with the Android Runtime that they feel they can stamp the Amazon Appstore logo on their marketing material.
    People are making a big need for no reason..

    I'm not sure what everyone is complaining about everyone already uses APKs, BlackBerry world is still going to be there it just needs to be cleaned up so people like me will actually use it.

    Lets help make BlackBerry World Better Campaign
    https://beta.webapps.blackberry.com/...w/23253#113330
    06-18-14 11:02 AM
  4. mikeo007's Avatar
    Why would they? It's not like anything has really changed. Technically, the Amazon app store has always been available for BB10. The Android runtime has always been a part of BB10 from its inception. And nothing has been taken away from the ability to develop native apps. A developer of BB10 native apps still has the advantage that their apps would perform and integrate better with a BB10 device than an Android app would, should they decide to put forth the effort to develop one. Nothing has really changed at all, except that BBRY is now comfortable enough with the Android Runtime that they feel they can stamp the Amazon Appstore logo on their marketing material.
    A massive new chunk of competition has been introduced. Competition that native devs never had in mind when developing for the platform. Native devs are now tiny fish in a massive sea. Sure, it's been there for months, but this is now pitting it directly against Blackberry world as an officially supported source of apps. It's a slap in the face, punch in the kidney, bullet to the knee for native devs.
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-18-14 11:05 AM
  5. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    A massive new chunk of competition has been introduced. Competition that native devs never had in mind when developing for the platform. Native devs are now tiny fish in a massive sea. Sure, it's been there for months, but this is now pitting it directly against Blackberry world as an officially supported source of apps. It's a slap in the face, punch in the kidney, bullet to the knee for native devs.
    I dunno about that. The competition has always been there. It's just being declared as official. Besides... Native developers have a huge advantage. Native developers have exclusive access to a very tiny part of that massive sea, but that tiny part is where all the best fish are. They've just got to fish it, and can do so without the waters getting overcrowded or spoiled.
    06-18-14 11:09 AM
  6. TBone4eva's Avatar
    Why would they? It's not like anything has really changed. Technically, the Amazon app store has always been available for BB10. The Android runtime has always been a part of BB10 from its inception. And nothing has been taken away from the ability to develop native apps. A developer of BB10 native apps still has the advantage that their apps would perform and integrate better with a BB10 device than an Android app would, should they decide to put forth the effort to develop one. Nothing has really changed at all, except that BBRY is now comfortable enough with the Android Runtime that they feel they can stamp the Amazon Appstore logo on their marketing material.
    Uh, a lot has changed. Read the actual press release. It sounds like BBW at least how we know it is going away.

    "BlackBerry and Amazon will be working with the BlackBerry application developer community to help them migrate their apps to the Amazon Appstore in preparation for the 10.3 launch, where they will benefit from the store's powerful promotional tools that enable maximum discoverability and profitability. This will include Appstore Developer Select, which provides enhanced merchandising, as well as Amazon Coins incentives, the Developer Promotions Console, which enables real-time pricing adjustments and specials, and the popular Free App of the Day program."

    So, BBW and the Amazon app store are going to be one in the same. Else, why would BB10 apps be migrated to Amazon. This is really weird to me. It really makes me wonder if Amazon is going to get BB10.


    Posted via CB10
    06-18-14 11:10 AM
  7. tek1255's Avatar
    So, is amazon app world like snap? The majority of the apps I get from snap are so laggy they have zero functionality. It's sad because when I got snap I was excited. Everyone was talking about Netflix and stuff and even that doesn't work very well. Just makes my phone overly hot and starts locking up. So, is this really going to help the app situation or its just going to put a number out there of apps but they really don't work.


    Posted via CB10
    bbq10l likes this.
    06-18-14 11:12 AM
  8. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Why would they? It's not like anything has really changed. Technically, the Amazon app store has always been available for BB10. The Android runtime has always been a part of BB10 from its inception. And nothing has been taken away from the ability to develop native apps. A developer of BB10 native apps still has the advantage that their apps would perform and integrate better with a BB10 device than an Android app would, should they decide to put forth the effort to develop one. Nothing has really changed at all, except that BBRY is now comfortable enough with the Android Runtime that they feel they can stamp the Amazon Appstore logo on their marketing material.
    Why wouldn't they? Until recently, if you wanted to run an Android app, you had to go through the side-loading process. This was fine for the enthusiasts and power users, but the average person wouldn't bother.

    BlackBerry World was still the easiest way to get apps.

    With 10.2.1, you could install APKs, but you still had to seek them out or install the Amazon Appstore or Snap yourself.

    BlackBerry World was still the easiest way to get apps.

    Now that the Amazon Appstore will ship with BB10 phones, BlackBerry World will no longer stand out as the easiest way to get apps.

    There is no reason, no incentive for developers to continue native app development for BB10.

    Just do the math.

    Develop a native BB10 app, and your potential customers are limited only to those who own a BB10 device. That's a very small market share.

    Develop an Android app and publish it in Google Play and Amazon Appstore and you have a far greater reach and customer base - INCLUDING BB10 owners!

    Why even bother with native BB10 apps at this point unless you are developing specifically for enterprise use or another niche area?

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    Witmen, JeepBB and techvisor like this.
    06-18-14 11:13 AM
  9. TBone4eva's Avatar
    So, is amazon app world like snap? The majority of the apps I get from snap are so laggy they have zero functionality. It's sad because when I got snap I was excited. Everyone was talking about Netflix and stuff and even that doesn't work very well. Just makes my phone overly hot and starts locking up. So, is this really going to help the app situation or its just going to put a number out there of apps but they really don't work.


    Posted via CB10
    Well, that's why they are going to wait until 10.3 launches as the 4.3 runtime will be more compatible with Android apps.

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-14 11:14 AM
  10. anon1727506's Avatar
    I have the Amazon store App installed on my Z10 and I do not get updates for Android Apps. And you are right, BBM is not even available on the store offerings.

    However, I have 1 Mobile and this application always provide updates for those installed Android Apps.

    I just went to the Amazon store App and it prompted me to update. I will wait till 10.3 is out in a few months.

    BlackBerry has signed a deal it says will bring some 200,000 Android apps to BlackBerry users before the end of the year.
    There are about 1.2 Million Apps in Google Play... granted many are duplicate junk that maybe Amazon filters out. But there are still a number of developers that are not interested in Amazon, so you will not find their apps. 1Mobile and the other dozen or so 3rd Party Android Apps stores just copies APKs without anyone's permission and post them - which is why Google is pushing developers to use Google Services.

    Will be interesting to see what Amazon required for this official permission. We already know the Video and Music Stores are closing...
    06-18-14 11:14 AM
  11. TBone4eva's Avatar
    There are about 1.2 Million Apps in Google Play... granted many are duplicate junk that maybe Amazon filters out. But there are still a number of developers that are not interested in Amazon, so you will not find their apps. 1Mobile and the other dozen or so 3rd Party Android Apps stores just copies APKs without anyone's permission and post them - which is why Google is pushing developers to use Google Services.

    Will be interesting to see what Amazon required for this official permission. We already know the Video and Music Stores are closing...
    Having access to Amazon's content sounds like a win to me.

    Posted via CB10
    web99 likes this.
    06-18-14 11:19 AM
  12. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    There are about 1.2 Million Apps in Google Play... granted many are duplicate junk that maybe Amazon filters out. But there are still a number of developers that are not interested in Amazon, so you will not find their apps. 1Mobile and the other dozen or so 3rd Party Android Apps stores just copies APKs without anyone's permission and post them - which is why Google is pushing developers to use Google Services.

    Will be interesting to see what Amazon required for this official permission. We already know the Video and Music Stores are closing...
    Now that Amazon is on the verge of launching its own smartphone I'm pretty sure devs are taking a second look at supporting the Amazon Appstore. That's millions of potential customers in addition to millions of existing BB10 owners.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    06-18-14 11:19 AM
  13. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Uh, a lot has changed. Read the actual press release. It sounds like BBW at least how we know it is going away.

    "BlackBerry and Amazon will be working with the BlackBerry application developer community to help them migrate their apps to the Amazon Appstore in preparation for the 10.3 launch, where they will benefit from the store's powerful promotional tools that enable maximum discoverability and profitability. This will include Appstore Developer Select, which provides enhanced merchandising, as well as Amazon Coins incentives, the Developer Promotions Console, which enables real-time pricing adjustments and specials, and the popular Free App of the Day program."

    So, BBW and the Amazon app store are going to be one in the same.
    That doesn't show at all how it affects Native Development. All that affects is the distribution point of apps. If the change only includes Android apps, then native devs still have BBW from which to distribute their apps, and nothing has changed. If by some outside change native apps also go to the Amazon store, then the native devs gain better marketing for their app's distribution. There's no downside for native devs. Especially given that BB10 users would probably always prefer a native app than an Android app if the choice were presented to them. Assuming of course that the native app is a well developed app, as it won't be deemed a better option just because it's native.
    06-18-14 11:19 AM
  14. mikeo007's Avatar
    I dunno about that. The competition has always been there. It's just being declared as official. Besides... Native developers have a huge advantage. Native developers have exclusive access to a very tiny part of that massive sea, but that tiny part is where all the best fish are. They've just got to fish it, and can do so without the waters getting overcrowded or spoiled.
    Making something official (ie. preloading it, which I assume they'll do with the Amazon store) is a large change from just having it available to those in the know.

    Also, I don't think your analogy is justified. I'd like to see any sort of proof that there are ANY "good fish" in this tiny part of the sea that native devs supposedly have access to.

    Developers basically make money one of two ways. Either selling in bulk to the larger market, or selling their services to a larger company. Making great apps for a tiny fraction of the population and selling them yourself will never be a sustainable way to make money. You're not going to be able to charge $60 for an app in BB world that is a hair better than dozens of free or $1 apps in the Amazon store. It's not sustainable.
    06-18-14 11:21 AM
  15. khehl's Avatar
    Making something official (ie. preloading it, which I assume they'll do with the Amazon store) is a large change from just having it available to those in the know.

    Also, I don't think your analogy is justified. I'd like to see any sort of proof that there are ANY "good fish" in this tiny part of the sea that native devs supposedly have access to.

    Developers basically make money one of two ways. Either selling in bulk to the larger market, or selling their services to a larger company. Making great apps for a tiny fraction of the population and selling them yourself will never be a sustainable way to make money. You're not going to be able to charge $60 for an app in BB world that is a hair better than dozens of free or $1 apps in the Amazon store. It's not sustainable.
    If they play it right and clean out the App World it can be better for 3rd party devs why?

    1. over 50% of apps in Apple App Store and Google Play never get downloaded or even seen. If BlackBerry World has 1000s of apps this will make it much easier for people to see.

    2. people will always prefer native over APKs

    3. Look at all the BlackBerry die hards that will buy any native app to BlackBerry, That is enough of an incentive to small 3rd Party devs.


    We haven't and will never see Big Developers making apps for BB10 there isn't enough market for it.
    06-18-14 11:24 AM
  16. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Why wouldn't they? Until recently, if you wanted to run an Android app, you had to go through the side-loading process. This was fine for the enthusiasts and power users, but the average person wouldn't bother.

    BlackBerry World was still the easiest way to get apps.

    With 10.2.1, you could install APKs, but you still had to seek them out or install the Amazon Appstore or Snap yourself.

    BlackBerry World was still the easiest way to get apps.

    Now that the Amazon Appstore will ship with BB10 phones, BlackBerry World will no longer stand out as the easiest way to get apps.

    There is no reason, no incentive for developers to continue native app development for BB10.

    Just do the math.

    Develop a native BB10 app, and your potential customers are limited only to those who own a BB10 device. That's a very small market share.

    Develop an Android app and publish it in Google Play and Amazon Appstore and you have a far greater reach and customer base - INCLUDING BB10 owners!

    Why even bother with native BB10 apps at this point unless you are developing specifically for enterprise use or another niche area?

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    All that becomes moot with one simple point...

    The only reason BB10 owners even attempt to install an Android app (regardless whether they had to sideload it or from an app store), is because there isn't a native option, or any existing native option just doesn't pass muster. If a native developer produces a quality app, BB10 users would quite likely opt for that instead of an Android alternative.
    06-18-14 11:25 AM
  17. mikeo007's Avatar
    If they play it right and clean out the App World it can be better for 3rd party devs why?

    1. over 50% of apps in Apple App Store and Google Play never get downloaded or even seen. If BlackBerry World has 1000s of apps this will make it much easier for people to see.
    That's a BS number with zero basis in fact.

    2. people will always prefer native over APKs
    People will prefer POPULAR apps, regardless of type. People want Instagram, not "almost instagram"

    3. Look at all the BlackBerry die hards that will buy any native app to BlackBerry, That is enough of an incentive to small 3rd Party devs.
    Do you have any idea how small that population actually is? You're literally talking about a tiny subsection of an already minuscule user base.
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-18-14 11:28 AM
  18. khehl's Avatar
    All that becomes moot with one simple point...

    The only reason BB10 owners even attempt to install an Android app (regardless whether they had to sideload it or from an app store), is because there isn't a native option, or any existing native option just doesn't pass muster. If a native developer produces a quality app, BB10 users would quite likely opt for that instead of an Android alternative.
    exactly everyone will always choose native over APKs. People like me have the Android version of SnapChat and the BlackBerry version for Snap2Chat?

    Why?
    BlackBerry Native
    Snap2Chat has push notifications, it has a better feel and more customizable (making up words I know) BlackBerry Features
    vs
    Android APK
    Snapchat has more features like reply with text

    I did buy Snap2Chat and love it.
    06-18-14 11:29 AM
  19. Emaderton3's Avatar
    All that becomes moot with one simple point...

    The only reason BB10 owners even attempt to install an Android app (regardless whether they had to sideload it or from an app store), is because there isn't a native option, or any existing native option just doesn't pass muster. If a native developer produces a quality app, BB10 users would quite likely opt for that instead of an Android alternative.
    But where is the incentive to develop the native app if you can get away with your Android one? They aren't going to know if a BlackBerry user is downloading it.

    And will an Android developer bother testing their app on the BlackBerry runtime to see if ot works right? And even on a Q10?

    Posted via CB10
    06-18-14 11:32 AM
  20. khehl's Avatar
    1. That's a BS number with zero basis in fact.


    2. People will prefer POPULAR apps, regardless of type. People want Instagram, not "almost instagram"


    3. Do you have any idea how small that population actually is?
    1. it's 100% true I was trying to find a link for it but I saw it in New York Times and a few other journals a long time ago.

    2. People like me have the Android version of SnapChat and the BlackBerry version for Snap2Chat?

    Why?
    BlackBerry Native
    Snap2Chat has push notifications, it has a better feel and more customizable (making up words I know) BlackBerry Features
    vs
    Android APK
    Snapchat has more features like reply with text

    I did buy Snap2Chat and love it.

    3. small population but those small 3rd party devs won't even get seen in Google Play vs 1000s of Apps in App World once it's cleaned up.
    06-18-14 11:32 AM
  21. NYC10065's Avatar
    Ok, so what did Amazon get in return? It has to be more than just BlackBerry users. It would be really nice if this Amazon phone was powered by BB10.
    Amazon is first and foremost a shopping portal. They don't make their money with hardware. Their philosophy basically boils down to making the products that they sell accessible to as many consumers as possible. For example, Kindles are sold at a very low margin or even at a loss so that consumers can access their video and book libraries as well as to allow consumers to make purchases on Amazon. Their phones are being developed much in the same way. To Amazon, hardware is a tool for consumers to access Amazon content (video, music, books) and products from amazon.com/.ca/.co.uk etc.

    So this move should be seen as being nothing more than a low cost way for Amazon to expand (even by a tiny number) the audience for its content/products. I would guess that Amazon is probably being paid by BBRY for this in addition to giving Amazon access to mobile users who have not been part of their grasp so far.
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-18-14 11:33 AM
  22. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Also, I don't think your analogy is justified. I'd like to see any sort of proof that there are ANY "good fish" in this tiny part of the sea that native devs supposedly have access to.
    Well that's the kicker. Not seeing proof of any "good fish" isn't because the fish aren't there, but because there doesn't seem to be very many "good fishermen" going after them. Native apps aren't better for BB10 simply for "being native". They still need to be well developed apps from talented developers with the experience to build them. Which has always been the root of the problem for BB10 development. Any talented developer who sails into that tiny area to fish, could reel in huge rewards.
    MERCDROID likes this.
    06-18-14 11:33 AM
  23. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Predicting a big headache for Amazon there.

    Anyway, RIP native development, we hardly knew ye.
    Native development was already dead. It's that whole chicken/egg thing we have all been talking about. If anything, long term this will help native development assuming the closed app gap helps BB sell more phones. If BB can sell more phones then they can go to native devs with hard stats (ie this many BB phones downloaded your app from Amazon, if you create a native version and upload to BB world you will benefit so much more, specifically in these ways...). The status quo was not going anywhere. Peak, flow and hub are not selling phones. Even if BB releases a 1080p octacore phone for $200 off contract it won't set the world on fire. They need apps out of the gate. This may not be the best solution but it is a good start IMO.
    06-18-14 11:33 AM
  24. khehl's Avatar
    And let's not kind ourselves, here. People will not be dropping their iPhone or Androids and flocking to BB10 over this announcement.
    Exactly right, that's why I don't think this announcement is good or bad really. It takes people on CrackBerry to overreact about everything and people like you just complain without trying to make it better, every single announcement.

    Look at what happened with the Foxconn announcement, people freaked for the longest time

    Everyone knew there was never Big Developers coming and for BlackBerry to be Competitive with other OS' needed some other App Store.

    I'm not phased by this at all, but I will definitely try to help improve the Corrupted BlackBerry World
    06-18-14 11:34 AM
  25. koebi90's Avatar
    10.3 needs to improve the overall performance of .apk apps A LOT if they want this deal to pay out!

    Posted on CB 10 and typed on the best Keyboard ever
    06-18-14 11:37 AM
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