04-05-14 12:20 PM
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  1. lnichols's Avatar
    And how is any of that a selling point for a non-BES, consumer phone?

    "Oh, sure, I may not have a tablet or smartwatch or fitness band, and I might not be able to run my favorite apps, or have to use 3rd party versions that can be broken at any time, but, darn it, I've got a cryptographic kernel, and so clearly this is the best phone for me!" - said no one ever.

    No one is arguing that BES-connected phones are the most secure phones generally available, but that means NOTHING to the average consumer, and, honestly, only means anything to a handful of hardcore BB fans. If that weren't true, then why would Android be selling more than 100 times as many phones per quarter as BB sells BB10? Not to mention iOS selling 20 times as many, and WinPhone selling 3 times as many.
    You said they weren't secure without BES. That is incorrect. Now whether it is a selling point or not is a totally different argument from what I was replying to.

    Posted via CB10
    04-03-14 08:56 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    You said they weren't secure without BES. That is incorrect. Now whether it is a selling point or not is a totally different argument from what I was replying to.
    Does the crypto kernel make non-BES email more secure? Does it make BBM secure? Does it make the on-board storage more secure if the end-user doesn't specifically enable encryption?

    That's the point of this thread: non-BES phones aren't secure in any way that's meaningful to consumers, most of whom barely care about security at all. So anyone touting security as a solution to the problem of consumer sales is delusional, because non-BES BB10 phones are not more secure in any way that's meaningful to consumers than any other modern smartphone. Plus, BB10 uses outdated browser security that has known exploits - the only company of the Big 4 to do so.
    04-03-14 09:06 PM
  3. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I'd buy a new Bold 9900 from the new production run as a secondary phone, and keep my Q10 as my primary. I really loved my 9900 and the only reason I had to change it was because it was 3 years old and a few keys were giving out and malfunctioning already.

    Posted via CB10
    "You can never go home again".

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    04-03-14 10:08 PM
  4. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    "You can never go home again".

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    Yes you can lol, and it feels good

    Edit: for example:

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25570039

    #believeinfilm
    04-04-14 03:44 AM
  5. Bookshelf's Avatar
    This is another production run of the existing Bold.
    He didn't specify if that's the 9900 or 9930. This time the Bolds will be sold at a profit.
    (In the past they were sold at a loss.) That's because this time there's zero development cost and solid demand.
    The idea appears to be to hang on to user's existing keyboard- trackpad users until the Q20 come out.
    04-04-14 06:53 PM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    Does the crypto kernel make non-BES email more secure? Does it make BBM secure? Does it make the on-board storage more secure if the end-user doesn't specifically enable encryption?

    That's the point of this thread: non-BES phones aren't secure in any way that's meaningful to consumers, most of whom barely care about security at all. So anyone touting security as a solution to the problem of consumer sales is delusional, because non-BES BB10 phones are not more secure in any way that's meaningful to consumers than any other modern smartphone. Plus, BB10 uses outdated browser security that has known exploits - the only company of the Big 4 to do so.
    Yes it makes it more secure if you are using FIPS VPN concentrator to access corporate email in lieu of a BES. BBM is encrytped with the kernel. No encryption is secure is you don't use it. You can change the argument from the one I highlighted, still won't make that argument correct.
    04-04-14 07:16 PM
  7. johnnyuk's Avatar
    This is another production run of the existing Bold.
    He didn't specify if that's the 9900 or 9930. This time the Bolds will be sold at a profit.
    (In the past they were sold at a loss.) That's because this time there's zero development cost and solid demand.
    The idea appears to be to hang on to user's existing keyboard- trackpad users until the Q20 come out.
    Not forgetting they are aimed at keeping Enterprise BBOS users with BlackBerry until they are ready, allowed or willing to move to BES10/12. I'm not sure we'll see many carriers selling these 99xx handsets to consumers, especially with how quickly carriers are reducing or dropping BlackBerrys from their consumer product line up.

    Perhaps in the area of the world where BBOS marketshare is still high enough there would be a better case for selling them to consumers if carriers were willing. But the longer BBOS 7 phones continue to be purchased the more I feel that those sales do more harm than good to BlackBerry's image as a relevant modern mobile platform proposition either in consumer land or Enterprise - BIS and BES service revenue aside.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1
    04-04-14 07:26 PM
  8. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    Makes me wonder how many carriers in developing markets like Indonesia and Nigeria are keen to keep their BIS infra running when fewer and fewer customers use it. I don't see BIS plans on offer with many East Asian carriers when the majority of users can just use plain GSM/WCDMA/LTE data without requiring special BBRY infra.

    On another note, without carrier-level BIS or BES plans, that OS7 "smartphone" becomes a dumbphone. That's the main reason why I switched to more sane platforms
    04-05-14 02:16 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Makes me wonder how many carriers in developing markets like Indonesia and Nigeria are keen to keep their BIS infra running when fewer and fewer customers use it. I don't see BIS plans on offer with many East Asian carriers when the majority of users can just use plain GSM/WCDMA/LTE data without requiring special BBRY infra.

    On another note, without carrier-level BIS or BES plans, that OS7 "smartphone" becomes a dumbphone. That's the main reason why I switched to more sane platforms
    Go try using an iphone or BB10 or android on 2G networks next to a BIS device and then come back.

    Also a BBOS device does not become a dumb phone without BIS, many people use it without BIS.

    Browser still works and if it doesn't you have Opera Browser, Logicmail for email, and many many apps still work because you can choose the connection, BIS or Direct carrier connection.


    #believeinfilm
    04-05-14 03:25 AM
  10. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    I really appreciate Johnny's thoughtful response.

    The part of Chen's plan that troubles me, is the notion that enterprise and prosumers are seeking phones with physical keyboards. I think that a cheaper phone like a Z3 running LTE might find more traction. Can they not make a BIS variant for certain markets ?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    You bet I wanted a BlackBerry 10 smartphone with a physical keyboard so I bought a BlackBerry Q5 months after buying a BlackBerry Z10.

    Posted via CB10 on BlackBerry Q5
    04-05-14 08:42 AM
  11. WES51's Avatar
    Even in the developed word, there is plenty of places out of town (actually in town as well), where signal stregth is low and compression comes pretty handy in speeding things up.

    So I don't understand all this bashing.

    It works great for me. I'm not seeking anything faster either than my 9900.
    04-05-14 09:35 AM
  12. johnnyuk's Avatar
    Even in the developed word, there is plenty of places out of town (actually in town as well), where signal stregth is low and compression comes pretty handy in speeding things up.

    So I don't understand all this bashing.

    It works great for me. I'm not seeking anything faster either than my 9900.
    I know it helps right now today in areas with only a 2G signal, but BlackBerry have to plan for tomorrow and not live for today as they have been doing for too long.

    NOC compression is an ever decreasing 'advantage' as each day ticks by. More and more data transmitted by smartphones is already compressed, the phones have the power to compress and decompress on the fly themselves instead of during transit.

    In the UK the 4G rollout will drastically improve signal strength outside of urban areas compared to the 3G roll out of a decade ago because the carrier's have to cover 98% of the UK this time, not the laughable 80% the Government 'forced' them to cover for 3G.

    Going forward BIS is a yester-decade solution to a yester-decade problem. BlackBerry are right to embrace modern technology and move on. Carrier pressure to ditch BIS and stop having to pay BlackBerry for something they don't have to pay any other phone manufacturer for keeps BlackBerry aware they have to evolve their business and modernise.

    Where BlackBerry are going wrong so far is the execution of this transition and modernisation. 80% of BBOS users don't upgrade to either kind of BlackBerry phone, BBOS or BB10. That's a problem they have to fix fast.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1
    Troy Tiscareno and kbz1960 like this.
    04-05-14 10:04 AM
  13. Bbnivende's Avatar
    You bet I wanted a BlackBerry 10 smartphone with a physical keyboard so I bought a BlackBerry Q5 months after buying a BlackBerry Z10.

    Posted via CB10 on BlackBerry Q5
    Amongst everyone I know, no one is interested in purchasing a physical keyboard phone . They need to have successful Z models in order to survive and thrive.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    johnnyuk likes this.
    04-05-14 10:36 AM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Yes it makes it more secure if you are using FIPS VPN concentrator to access corporate email in lieu of a BES.
    Which is something most CONSUMERS do, right? Or is this irrelevant to consumers? That's the point I'm making.

    I started by acknowledging that BB10 is well-suited for the Enterprise, which will use BES with it. But it simply offers very little to the consumer that they can't get elsewhere, and elsewhere, they get a much better ecosystem along with the deal.
    johnnyuk likes this.
    04-05-14 12:08 PM
  15. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    But it simply offers very little to the consumer that they can't get elsewhere, and elsewhere, they get a much better ecosystem along with the deal.
    The devil is in the wording, my friend. :-) Without meaning to, you made it sound like BlackBerry 10 is "not secure", which is incorrect. I know it, you know and most people know it. But it came across initially like you felt it was some 'easy to hack into platform'. It isn't. Neither are the other platforms despite the rhetoric around here.

    More accurately (as you point out later), consumers don't care about security and all platforms (iPhone, Android, Windows Phone and BlackBerry 10) are good enough so bragging security to this audience is irrelevant because they won't care.
    04-05-14 12:20 PM
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