12-07-13 03:36 AM
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  1. vrud's Avatar
    You clearly have a misunderstanding of how BES works... ALL data is routed THROUGH BlackBerry servers (The NOC). Without the NOC, BES useless.
    This thing I don't understand.
    Why the messages must go through NOC?
    I would guess, Device encrypts the message, BES decrypts and passes to Email server.
    What is NOC supposed to do?
    12-05-13 01:01 PM
  2. m1a1mg's Avatar
    You do know that they wouldn't be using Blackberry's servers, they would be using their own so they are in control of any reliability. It would be so nice if people understood the situation before posting.
    This is the very definition of irony.

    Let's see of we see a re-appearance.
    12-05-13 01:53 PM
  3. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    This thing I don't understand.
    Why the messages must go through NOC?
    I would guess, Device encrypts the message, BES decrypts and passes to Email server.
    What is NOC supposed to do?
    Secure encrypted traffic is routed through the BB infrastructure from Device, to NOC, to BES. BES talks to the infrastructure not only for licensing but also general connectivity. There is literally CONSTANT communication between BES and NOC. This is how it has always been designed.
    12-05-13 01:58 PM
  4. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    How a device connects to the BDS.pdf

    Take alook at the attached.

    This is from page 15 of the BDS Technical overview PDF.
    anon1727506 and vrud like this.
    12-05-13 02:04 PM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You clearly have a misunderstanding of how BES works... ALL data is routed THROUGH BlackBerry servers (The NOC). Without the NOC, BES useless.
    Really?

    http://docs.blackberry.com/en/admin/...verview_en.pdf

    Page 18,

    You can send and receive email without using the NOC. Governments use their own secured mail servers to handle email and they use secure VPN connections for communications. The NOC can be down and you would still have communication.

    Oh, by the way. Look at the other data flows, almost all BES10 functions can work WITHOUT the NOC. I know this stuff is new and people have to learn the new stuff, but at least you could check before slamming someone wrongly.

    Thanks
    12-05-13 02:41 PM
  6. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Using internal network is fine or VPN. Not only that but that is only part of the traffic. The vast majority do NOT do this. In which case all data is routed through BES (specifically BDS). Also I have been using BES10 (BDS 6 at the time) and Bb10 for a year now. None of this is new. Also the discovery service is BlackBerry run, tour licenses are on BlackBerry servers, your SRP MUST be in contact with BlackBerry servers for your BES to function. Also every notification BlackBerry sends out regarding a NOC regional outage affects BES10 users.

    Posted via CB10
    anon1727506 and m1a1mg like this.
    12-05-13 03:27 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Yup. One of the many fine legacies of being part of the British Empire is an ability to spell words properly.
    Actually, it's the Brits who aren't using the correct spellings.

    English came to America in the 16th and 17th Centuries, and was essentially identical to what was spoken in England. The reign of Louis XIV of France during the late 17th Century was hugely influential in Europe, and during the late 1680s, England was essentially governed by Louis XIV, with the British king being virtually appointed by him and in great debt to him. So powerful, successful, rich, and influential was Louis that all things French became extremely fashionable in England (London especially), and during this period, even the written language was altered to be "more French". This is where all of those extra letters come from.

    Americans didn't take anything out; destitute England added them in, wanting to be more like the wealthy, powerful French of the day.
    12-05-13 03:29 PM
  8. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Also in the same guide you posted take a look at registering a device for activation. And any activation related to IOS and Android, and any non WiFi / VPN activation for BB10. All this requires the BlackBerry network. Also try setting up a BES10 when your SRP is invalid or cannot be verified. Also set up new devices when your license server isn't able to talk to the infrastructure. None of it works. To be in a compliant state for licenses you need to have them available, have them linked to that hardware (P or v) and be able to TALK to the BlackBerry network.

    Posted via CB10
    m1a1mg and web99 like this.
    12-05-13 03:36 PM
  9. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Also check out the installation guide pages 18 on. Even devices using your work WiFi connect to the infrastructure.


    BlackBerry Enterprise Service 10 uses the outbound-initiated port 3101 to send and receive data for BlackBerry 10 devices and work space-enabled iOS and Android devices. For iOS and Android devices that are not work space-enabled, BlackBerry Enterprise Service 10 sends and receives only activation and management data through the outbound-initiated port 3101. All other data, such as messaging data and data from third-party applications, is not routed through port 3101. Consult the documentation or support resources for your organization's messaging software and third-party applications to determine the ports that you must open.


    Outbound ports: Work space-enabled devices on a work Wi-Fi network Work space-enabled iOS and Android devices that use your company?s Wi-Fi network use the following outbound ports to connect to the BlackBerry Infrastructure and external services. Configure your company firewall to allow outgoing and incoming connections over these ports.



    Do I need to continue?

    Posted via CB10
    12-05-13 03:47 PM
  10. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Do I need to continue?
    That horse should be dead by now. But you just never know around here.
    12-05-13 03:55 PM
  11. vrud's Avatar
    Informative posts, thanks!
    So, from business perspective it is preferable to use VPN to minimize dependency on NOC for post-activation messaging.
    However, to activate new devices they still need a connection.

    I wonder how other MDM providers solve the activation problem if there's no connection to the MDM supplier to verify the licensing.
    I remember my Windows gave a 30 days grace period before it must be activated (either through phone or online).
    12-05-13 04:04 PM
  12. BCITMike's Avatar
    Heh ... Just be grateful we can't afford to send in gunboats anymore...

    This post is brought to you by the letter "U". Something else that didn't survive the swim across the Atlantic. :P

    JBB
    Stopped into Canada and never made it's way south.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-05-13 04:12 PM
  13. axeman1000's Avatar
    "We'll give people the option to use iPhones and iPads as well as BlackBerry, as we move into the first part of next year," he said.

    Excellent. So they will set up ipads in the lunch rooms for games and such, iphones for people to play candy crush in tanks and fighter planes as space is of utmost importance, and then BlackBerry for the true secure communications. Anything else would be foolish.

    BlackBerry forever, haters never!
    12-05-13 04:14 PM
  14. BCITMike's Avatar
    They just want to add additional support for ios and android is still neglected.

    BlackBerry being in the top.

    They will know it when their internals will start flashing in instagram and snapchats.

    I only wish they don't jailbreak the ios.

    Best of luck to aussie defense.



    Posted via CB10
    Too late.

    Posted via CB10
    12-05-13 04:15 PM
  15. 93Aero's Avatar
    Heh ... Just be grateful we can't afford to send in gunboats anymore...

    This post is brought to you by the letter "U". Something else that didn't survive the swim across the Atlantic. :P

    JBB
    Hey the department I retired from still spells 'Covnty' with a V.

    Coat of Arms and all are on the sides of the cruisers.

    Posted via CB10
    Attachment 227336
    Last edited by 93Aero; 12-05-13 at 04:26 PM.
    JeepBB likes this.
    12-05-13 04:15 PM
  16. 93Aero's Avatar
    Lol, now thats funny.
    It's spray butter now! Lol


    Posted via CB10
    12-05-13 04:23 PM
  17. JeepBB's Avatar
    Stopped into Canada and never made it's way south.

    Posted via CB10
    I used to work with some Canucks.

    They (IIRC) were of the opinion that Canadian English had become "generational" in that the older you were, the more likely you would be to use English English. Younger guys would often follow American English spellings. I'm not sure if that is generally true of Canada.

    Either way, I'll stick with my random placing of extra "u" in words... Mostly for the Scrabble... I'm such a poor player that I need every point I can get!

    So, what was this thread about again? LOL

    (Sorry Kevin)
    12-05-13 04:40 PM
  18. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Hey the department I retired from still spells 'Covnty' with a V.

    Coat of Arms and all are on the sides of the cruisers.

    Posted via CB10
    Attachment 227336
    I grew up in PG!

    Posted via CB10
    93Aero likes this.
    12-05-13 04:44 PM
  19. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Informative posts, thanks!
    So, from business perspective it is preferable to use VPN to minimize dependency on NOC for post-activation messaging.
    However, to activate new devices they still need a connection.

    I wonder how other MDM providers solve the activation problem if there's no connection to the MDM supplier to verify the licensing.
    I remember my Windows gave a 30 days grace period before it must be activated (either through phone or online).
    Actually I am 99.9999% certain without the NOC even VPN and WiFi would fail. You still need to be able to talk to the NOC. BES Needs NOC, period.

    You can use ActiveSync internally without NOC, but no BES

    Posted via CB10
    m1a1mg and vrud like this.
    12-05-13 04:47 PM
  20. 93Aero's Avatar
    I grew up in PG!

    Posted via CB10
    Lol, I see yeah only true natives call it PG. I've worked all six stations
    Hyattsville
    Beltsville
    Bowie
    Clinton
    Landover
    Oxon Hill, was that you on the Beltway who wouldn't move to the right, lol.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by 93Aero; 12-05-13 at 09:16 PM.
    12-05-13 04:58 PM
  21. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Actually I am 99.9999% certain without the NOC even VPN and WiFi would fail. You still need to be able to talk to the NOC. BES Needs NOC, period.

    You can use ActiveSync internally without NOC, but no BES

    Posted via CB10
    I'll add the. 001. Without NOC no BlackBerry can be activated for email, BBM and other services. They can be used as a dumbphone though.
    12-05-13 06:10 PM
  22. David Murray1's Avatar
    We use different spellings to give our language nuance. Americans have no patience for subtleties which explains why they are so blunt and unsophisticated.
    12-05-13 06:19 PM
  23. Mr.G_under's Avatar
    Mate))) bloody hell...What's that with DoD?

    I am Caribbean born and live in Australia and it seems to be that not any Australia company cares about security. I honestly met a guy yesterday on the train platform who told me that his company was moving to iFens after being so proud that he was holding a BB. I said to him, "I guess you guys don't care too much about security, do You?" He laughed..."yeah...we should..."

    I worked at Parliament of Victoria and it disgusted me that the IT Director decommissioned BES with blackberry devices to bring iFen. You would think that the IT departments at the government sights would care about security, but they do not give two farts about data.
    12-05-13 06:24 PM
  24. vrud's Avatar
    I'll add the. 001. Without NOC no BlackBerry can be activated for email, BBM and other services. They can be used as a dumbphone though.
    Wouldn't it be more than 100% then?

    Anyways, by a dumbphone you mean any other smartphone on the market such as droids or iphones, right?
    Is my understanding correct that when NOC is down, you would still be able to operate personal email accounts, browse internet and connect to enterprise servers if VPN is installed from the personal side of the balance?
    I hope VPN doesn't need BES or NOC, it should be direct communication like IMAP, POP3 protocols, no?
    Last edited by vrud; 12-05-13 at 09:29 PM. Reason: removed white space
    12-05-13 06:41 PM
  25. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Also check out the installation guide pages 18 on. Even devices using your work WiFi connect to the infrastructure.


    BlackBerry Enterprise Service 10 uses the outbound-initiated port 3101 to send and receive data for BlackBerry 10 devices and work space-enabled iOS and Android devices. For iOS and Android devices that are not work space-enabled, BlackBerry Enterprise Service 10 sends and receives only activation and management data through the outbound-initiated port 3101. All other data, such as messaging data and data from third-party applications, is not routed through port 3101. Consult the documentation or support resources for your organization's messaging software and third-party applications to determine the ports that you must open.


    Outbound ports: Work space-enabled devices on a work Wi-Fi network Work space-enabled iOS and Android devices that use your company?s Wi-Fi network use the following outbound ports to connect to the BlackBerry Infrastructure and external services. Configure your company firewall to allow outgoing and incoming connections over these ports.



    Do I need to continue?

    Posted via CB10
    Yes. Please explain how emails and apps and policies can be pushed without NOC as shown in the diagrams? You seem to be confused about the standard implementation of BES and one that would be used by governments and military.
    12-05-13 08:46 PM
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