04-14-17 12:47 PM
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  1. Deckard79's Avatar
    Kevin did a checklist long before BB10 launched of what BlackBerry had to do to make the launch of BB10 a success....

    Was BB10 stable at launch.... NO
    Were the key apps available at launch.... NO (Kevin bet a car that Instagram would be there, he gave someone a matchbox car).
    Was the Z10 an impressive pieces of hardware.... NO (it was OK, but battery was too small due to BB10's crazy power consumption)
    Was the Z10 priced to sell... NO (BlackBerry wanted all the profit they could get, didn't even consider any special launch incentives)
    Marketing.... At the launch at least they did do a lot of ads here in the US. Now after a few months it all dried up... but by then they didn't have any hope in the consumer market anyway.

    BlackBerry missed on most every point that Kevin had made. And sadly once that launch was seen as a failure... that was it. Developers stayed away, Carriers moved away, Enterprise Customers for the most part went with plan "Apple", and even BlackBerry's #1 fan moved on.
    This sums it up.

    Posted via CB10
    06-08-16 09:58 AM
  2. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Android market is over saturated and there are not any features of BBOS or BB10 that will change the Android market. Chen screwed up again. Drop the Android and go back to BB10 and update the ART and do some advertising.
    Or just drop phone hardware altogether, which is the more likely scenario.
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-08-16 10:22 AM
  3. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Android market is over saturated and there are not any features of BBOS or BB10 that will change the Android market. Chen screwed up again. Drop the Android and go back to BB10 and update the ART and do some advertising.
    There is no way to sell phones, in any kind of volume, that use Android apps where the phone can not gain entry to the Google store . Hacks do not count.

    Chen was counting on Amazon but when their Fire was DOA so was BB10. I want BlackBerry to make a new phone. The device is far more important than the OS. A Bold style phone worked under BBOS and BB10. It should work under Android too.

    Personally, I would buy a Android all touch for the keyboard , Hub and other BlackBerry software features. Too bad that the device is unlikely to have a removable battery. That is a major fail unless they up the size .
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 06-08-16 at 11:07 AM.
    06-08-16 10:44 AM
  4. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    That's the timetravel game - however we got here, in 2016 BB10 is a market failure which cost billions and has been ineffectively shutdown internally. The only question for BBRY is can they make android a go - there is no will or infrastructure to go back to BB10.
    BlackBerry cannot rely on Android to do anything for them. Only Samsung makes any money on Android and even that is small. At least BlackBerry had a secure phone system.
    06-08-16 10:55 AM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Or just drop phone hardware altogether, which is the more likely scenario.
    If they want to do hardware, Android isn't going to help them. I bet that the Priv sold less than BB10 phones during the last quarter.
    06-08-16 10:56 AM
  6. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    If they want to do hardware, Android isn't going to help them. I bet that the Priv sold less than BB10 phones during the last quarter.
    You have to factor in the ridiculous price as well though, carrier subsidised and direct. I think it was like Limony Snicket: a series of unfortunate events that combined killed it. Some were BlackBerry's fault, some not.

    We'll see if they've learned some of the lessons with the next two attempts.

    Posted via CB10
    06-08-16 11:11 AM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    BlackBerry cannot rely on Android to do anything for them. Only Samsung makes any money on Android and even that is small. At least BlackBerry had a secure phone system.
    Switch is more about stemming the losses . BB10 could not be profitable. They need to sell fewer phones with Android to break even. They can partner with other OEMs and sell the only good PKB.
    06-08-16 11:43 AM
  8. kvndoom's Avatar
    Android market is over saturated and there are not any features of BBOS or BB10 that will change the Android market. Chen screwed up again. Drop the Android and go back to BB10 and update the ART and do some advertising.
    Google! You WILL let us use the runtime! "No" is NOT AN ANSWER!!

    Wow, it really is that easy, isn't it? I can't believe nobody has thought of or done this before! Not like Google has any say over how its intellectual property is used.

    It's amazing that anyone still thinks BB10 phones could ever sell in enough volume to save hardware. That 0.2% statistic doesn't lie. And now the cell phone market is reaching its period of slowing growth, which will be followed by stagnation, and then ultimately shrinkage. The time for anyone to make a splash has passed.

    BB10 has failed, along with Windows Phone, Firefox OS, and all the others who couldn't gain ground versus IOS and Android. A few more will try, and they will fail miserably, solidifying the definition of insanity. The war is long over..
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-08-16 11:44 AM
  9. kvndoom's Avatar
    If they want to do hardware, Android isn't going to help them. I bet that the Priv sold less than BB10 phones during the last quarter.
    I'm sure you're right, but if they were selling BB10 phones for $700 last quarter, they'd have been lucky to move 50 of them.
    06-08-16 11:47 AM
  10. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Google! You WILL let us use the runtime! "No" is NOT AN ANSWER!!

    Wow, it really is that easy, isn't it? I can't believe nobody has thought of or done this before! Not like Google has any say over how its intellectual property is used.

    It's amazing that anyone still thinks BB10 phones could ever sell in enough volume to save hardware. That 0.2% statistic doesn't lie. And now the cell phone market is reaching its period of slowing growth, which will be followed by stagnation, and then ultimately shrinkage. The time for anyone to make a splash has passed.

    BB10 has failed, along with Windows Phone, Firefox OS, and all the others who couldn't gain ground versus IOS and Android. A few more will try, and they will fail miserably, solidifying the definition of insanity. The war is long over..
    If they don't make an Android device, they can use the ART. Plain and simple.

    What is amazing is that anyone thinks that making Android hardware will ever make them money.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    06-08-16 02:33 PM
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    A lot of people forget that they have already spent the money developing and releasing the OS, any development work now won't be in the billions. So now it is just updates and managing the cost of BB10 hardware.
    06-08-16 02:35 PM
  12. Bbnivende's Avatar
    If they don't make an Android device, they can use the ART. Plain and simple.

    What is amazing is that anyone thinks that making Android hardware will ever make them money.
    Irrelevant if you can not use the Google store. I am sure that BlackBerry has done the math.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    06-08-16 03:02 PM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    A lot of people forget that they have already spent the money developing and releasing the OS, any development work now won't be in the billions. So now it is just updates and managing the cost of BB10 hardware.
    From what I "understood" creating a new runtime would be a pretty large task... look what it took BlackBerry just to update the PRIV to MM. A move to 64Bit OS to take full advantage of today's hardware would have been a major undertaking. And now in order to keep up BlackBerry needs to be working on 3D touch features.... An OS is never really finished, at least not till it's EOL.

    We don't know if Development, Licensing, Drivers, Support and whatever it takes to negotiate, build and sell devcies.... would have cost $100 million or $1 billion a year... what we know is that Chen didn't see a future in it.
    06-08-16 03:36 PM
  14. cgk's Avatar
    If they don't make an Android device, they can use the ART. Plain and simple.

    What is amazing is that anyone thinks that making Android hardware will ever make them money.
    Oh I don't think that - hardware is toast, it's just that bb10 died before the hardware division.
    JeepBB and Witmen like this.
    06-08-16 03:40 PM
  15. kvndoom's Avatar
    If they don't make an Android device, they can use the ART. Plain and simple.

    What is amazing is that anyone thinks that making BB10 hardware will ever make them money.
    Works both ways.
    06-08-16 04:59 PM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    "BB can't make money with Android!"

    "BB can't make money with BB10!"

    "No, BB can't make money with Android!"

    "but they can't make money with BB10!"

    Hmmmm....
    JeepBB and Witmen like this.
    06-08-16 05:53 PM
  17. Asvertus's Avatar
    There are many here they might would buy another BlackBerry....

    The problem is BlackBerry is not providing a compelling enough reason for many of us to do so. I think the two new phones are not really meant for fans...
    And they will fail too.

    Posted from my Z30 (10.3.2.2876) #ILoveBB10Apps #ILoveBB10 #LoveHelloGames #NoMansSky
    06-08-16 06:24 PM
  18. kvndoom's Avatar
    "BB can't make money with Android!"

    "BB can't make money with BB10!"

    "No, BB can't make money with Android!"

    "but they can't make money with BB10!"

    Hmmmm....
    Heh, been a while since my algebra days, but I guess taking the intersection of all those sets comes out to more or less be "Blackberry can't make money with phones". 🤐
    06-08-16 06:44 PM
  19. jope28's Avatar
    Heh, been a while since my algebra days, but I guess taking the intersection of all those sets comes out to more or less be "Blackberry can't make money with phones". 🤐
    That's what many of us are thinking, while hoping our thoughts are wrong.

     Passport/SQW100-3 .2876 CB10 
    Last edited by jope28; 06-08-16 at 07:18 PM.
    06-08-16 07:01 PM
  20. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    From what I "understood" creating a new runtime would be a pretty large task... look what it took BlackBerry just to update the PRIV to MM. A move to 64Bit OS to take full advantage of today's hardware would have been a major undertaking. And now in order to keep up BlackBerry needs to be working on 3D touch features.... An OS is never really finished, at least not till it's EOL.

    We don't know if Development, Licensing, Drivers, Support and whatever it takes to negotiate, build and sell devcies.... would have cost $100 million or $1 billion a year... what we know is that Chen didn't see a future in it.
    What we DO know is that both Apple and Google claim to spend around a billion dollars a year developing their OSs and the accompanying developer support (programming environments, APIs, training materials, etc.). That's what the BB10 team is competing against, and there's no way they're going to be competitive spending only $100M a year - they'd continue to fall behind. And yet, Chen can't afford to spend $100M a year either...
    JeepBB, Dunt Dunt Dunt and TGR1 like this.
    06-08-16 10:29 PM
  21. gebco's Avatar

    We'll see if they've learned some of the lessons with the next two attempts.

    Posted via CB10
    That's been the ongoing storyline here on CB and with BlackBerry. The Z10 didn't do so great but the pkb lovers will buy up the Q10 in the millions. Q10 was overpriced so people will buy the Q5 or the Leap. Passport will be the saviour because it is unique.

    I love my BlackBerry devices. But BlackBerry hasn't learned. And they won't learn. Not when it comes to hardware. The next two devices will not save BlackBerry IMHO. IF BlackBerry continues to make phones, they will be a small niche player. If they don't, I hope we can eventually buy the hub, VKB etc on Google Play as these features really keep me with BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    06-08-16 11:13 PM
  22. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    What we DO know is that both Apple and Google claim to spend around a billion dollars a year developing their OSs and the accompanying developer support (programming environments, APIs, training materials, etc.). That's what the BB10 team is competing against, and there's no way they're going to be competitive spending only $100M a year - they'd continue to fall behind. And yet, Chen can't afford to spend $100M a year either...
    Well according to many on here - BBRY spent billions on BB10 so they should have been competeing.

    Now I think we can all be honest and say they didn't, in fact early BB10 looked like pre-alpha software that had been thrown together as a proof of concept and that surely didn't shout 'THIS COST US BILLIONS' did it ?

    And even 100 million employs a lot of people, i mean it's 100 people at a million each or 1000 at 100,000 each that seems like an awful lot of people for that amount of money.

    And lets not forget BBRY are supossedly pushing towards being software only - well that requires software engineers/developers, so I think that argument is moot as well.

    BBRY is well on it's way to becoming an umbrella to other companies that it picks up and then police's it's patents with a crack team of lawyers.
    06-09-16 02:29 AM
  23. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    That's been the ongoing storyline here on CB and with BlackBerry. The Z10 didn't do so great but the pkb lovers will buy up the Q10 in the millions. Q10 was overpriced so people will buy the Q5 or the Leap. Passport will be the saviour because it is unique.

    I love my BlackBerry devices. But BlackBerry hasn't learned. And they won't learn. Not when it comes to hardware. The next two devices will not save BlackBerry IMHO. IF BlackBerry continues to make phones, they will be a small niche player. If they don't, I hope we can eventually buy the hub, VKB etc on Google Play as these features really keep me with BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    I hear you on the past mistakes for sure. For me they'll have learned some lessons if they release decent spec'd devices (no corner cutting on front camera eg) and stick to a reasonable price. Oh, and no more dumb made up names like Priv or Leap, lol.

    Their best hope is to succeed as a small niche player, imho. Even if they do all of the above their sales in the consumer market will likely be negligible. People are holding onto their devices longer and everyone is feeling the pinch unfortunately.

    I'd add that I think they should add a Passport variant to the lineup of rumoured devices to complement the other two. It's just different enough that I think it would appeal to people who wouldn't go for the Rome.

    And yeah, if all else fails I hope they offer a BlackBerry productivity suite for other devices as I enjoy the Hub, keyboard, etc. Cheers.


    Posted via CB10
    06-09-16 07:03 AM
  24. jhimmel's Avatar
    "BB can't make money with Android!"
    "BB can't make money with BB10!"
    "No, BB can't make money with Android!"
    "but they can't make money with BB10!"
    Precisely. All true.
    06-09-16 07:22 AM
  25. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I hear you on the past mistakes for sure. For me they'll have learned some lessons if they release decent spec'd devices (no corner cutting on front camera eg) and stick to a reasonable price. Oh, and no more dumb made up names like Priv or Leap, lol.

    Their best hope is to succeed as a small niche player, imho. Even if they do all of the above their sales in the consumer market will likely be negligible. People are holding onto their devices longer and everyone is feeling the pinch unfortunately.

    I'd add that I think they should add a Passport variant to the lineup of rumoured devices to complement the other two. It's just different enough that I think it would appeal to people who wouldn't go for the Rome.

    And yeah, if all else fails I hope they offer a BlackBerry productivity suite for other devices as I enjoy the Hub, keyboard, etc. Cheers.


    Posted via CB10
    I think the Hamburg is as close to the Passport as you will see because Android does not support a square screen. A larger Passport mini tablet with cell phone capability running Android sounds good.

    Posted via CB10
    06-09-16 08:16 AM
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