12-21-11 08:52 PM
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  1. JPMorgan_'s Avatar
    And the latest article on RIM, published today a Businessweek


    RIMs Botched PlayBook Debut Seen Keeping Acquirers on Sidelines

    RIM’s Botched PlayBook Debut Seen Keeping Acquirers on Sidelines - Businessweek
    12-19-11 12:41 AM
  2. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Makes sense. RIM could get a lot cheaper yet.
    12-19-11 06:33 AM
  3. NJPhilliesPhan's Avatar
    I am a little concerned what this all means for owners of the playbook. Will we ever get the missing standard features. Sounds like they can't get them to work on QNX and investors are starting to notice. I just wish that RIM would be honest about its issues with QNX.
    12-19-11 06:46 AM
  4. HybridGT's Avatar
    I am a little concerned what this all means for owners of the playbook. Will we ever get the missing standard features. Sounds like they can't get them to work on QNX and investors are starting to notice. I just wish that RIM would be honest about its issues with QNX.
    No company is honest these days
    bquinney likes this.
    12-19-11 06:47 AM
  5. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I am a little concerned what this all means for owners of the playbook. Will we ever get the missing standard features. Sounds like they can't get them to work on QNX and investors are starting to notice. I just wish that RIM would be honest about its issues with QNX.

    Well internal builds have BBM

    They displayed and allowed the public to see Working PIM in Toronto at the innovations forum, showing RIM expanding BB Bridge to a whole new level of phone/tablet integration

    do I think PlayBook 1 owners will get BBM? I would bet not until 2013 at the soonest, if ever
    12-19-11 07:04 AM
  6. howarmat's Avatar
    Well internal builds have BBM

    They displayed and allowed the public to see Working PIM in Toronto at the innovations forum, showing RIM expanding BB Bridge to a whole new level of phone/tablet integration

    do I think PlayBook 1 owners will get BBM? I would bet not until 2013 at the soonest, if ever
    im guessing they are still wanting BBM to remain a "paid" feature via LTE/4g/3g hardware only then?
    12-19-11 07:12 AM
  7. Pilchard's Avatar
    I am a little concerned what this all means for owners of the playbook. Will we ever get the missing standard features. Sounds like they can't get them to work on QNX and investors are starting to notice. I just wish that RIM would be honest about its issues with QNX.
    We will get them, just really, really late. Current estimate of Feb 2012, make that April 2012 by the time they are working properly if we are lucky.
    12-19-11 07:18 AM
  8. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    im guessing they are still wanting BBM to remain a "paid" feature via LTE/4g/3g hardware only then?
    It's not a matter of wanting,
    It's a matter of management and politics I would assume.
    Who owns management for the PIN infrastructure for the Wifi PlayBook? there is no RIM.BlackBerry.net BIS, does RIM reduce its margins creating one and managing one? how do carriers react to RIM giving free BIS to end users but charging them for BIS?

    does RIM give up 1Billion dollar revenue stream for the sake of a few 100,000 PlayBooks?

    beyond that, how do multiple device owners manage their contact lists? BBID? is the syncing infrastructure in place for BBID, what level of backwards compatibility does BBID have with existing BlackBerry's
    What do changes to the PIN management system mean for BES admins?
    What do they mean to FIPS certification?

    that's a lot of what's for a companion device.
    CDM76 likes this.
    12-19-11 07:38 AM
  9. howarmat's Avatar
    i agree it would be hard to do and you are right it would be alot of money to cater to 100-200k people. I cant say i really expected it to ever be on the wifi device BUT i thought if they were going to give it push email like a normal BB i figured that would come.

    Like you mentioned, there is no RIM BIS servers....so the native email will be activesync/pop/imap and not push enabled via BIS is your thinking or they going to work something out. I know you have seen these in action, atleast more than 99% of the people on here but not sure what all you saw either
    12-19-11 08:00 AM
  10. kbz1960's Avatar
    It not just the playbook aren't the new phones going to need the missings features even more than the playbook? Agree on the wifi only device.
    12-19-11 08:17 AM
  11. Rickroller's Avatar
    “You both need to swallow the bitter pill and come out of denial fast,” he wrote.
    To bad that will not happen..I think their (co-ceo's) ego's are just too big to admit failure.
    12-19-11 09:06 AM
  12. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    It not just the playbook aren't the new phones going to need the missings features even more than the playbook? Agree on the wifi only device.
    The phones wont suffer the adminstation issues that the PlayBook suffered

    The phones ARE primary devices registered to BIS/BES with all push services,
    The Issues in the past were BIS/BES could have a single PIN registered to the service, to prevent duplication of secured messaging, ONLY the intended device could get the information, by moving to a BBID system RIM risks the ability to have hidden receivers tied to messaging,
    RIM HAS changed BES with Mobile Fusion to allow multiple PIN's registered to a BES account (not sure about BIS updates) which allows for emails to be pushed via BES, and it is widely assumed ActiveSync will cover the needs of PlayBook users.

    Much of the UI and back end for these features are developed, but the implementation over Wifi without BIS/BES is the challenge for RIM
    12-19-11 09:11 AM
  13. loneweasel's Avatar
    That's why BB10's delay is so devastating. It's such a transparent lie. If QNX work were progressing on schedule there is no reason they couldn't have put out a phone based on existing or soon to be existing chips. To blame the delay on an imaginary chipset, on which by the way they are hanging the entire future of the company, they must be so arrogant to think we are all idiots.
    12-19-11 09:17 AM
  14. kbz1960's Avatar
    The phones wont suffer the adminstation issues that the PlayBook suffered

    The phones ARE primary devices registered to BIS/BES with all push services,
    The Issues in the past were BIS/BES could have a single PIN registered to the service, to prevent duplication of secured messaging, ONLY the intended device could get the information, by moving to a BBID system RIM risks the ability to have hidden receivers tied to messaging,
    RIM HAS changed BES with Mobile Fusion to allow multiple PIN's registered to a BES account (not sure about BIS updates) which allows for emails to be pushed via BES, and it is widely assumed ActiveSync will cover the needs of PlayBook users.

    Much of the UI and back end for these features are developed, but the implementation over Wifi without BIS/BES is the challenge for RIM
    I need to quote more often. Agree with that. I was responding to njphilly about the missing features such as spell check, word substitution etc. The only so far that I remember hearing will be missing from the Feb update is native bbm on the playbook.
    12-19-11 09:20 AM
  15. the_sleuth's Avatar
    If RIM is going to espouse cloud-like features, then BBM and PIM features should be available to all users. BBM could be a premium paid app or subscription for PB wi-fi users.
    kbz1960 and Superfly_FR like this.
    12-19-11 09:21 AM
  16. menaknow's Avatar
    I honestly do not think BBM will come to the playbook, and it would be a good move. Honestly, one of the biggest items that keeps users on a Blackberry is BBM. iTunes makes it hard to move someones entire musical library.

    If someone can just use the playbook to keep in contact with their BBM users, why bother having a Blackberry? Plus with the PB being wifi, you also are not always connected. You just gotten rid of the ability to reach someone regardless.
    12-19-11 09:32 AM
  17. menaknow's Avatar
    If RIM is going to espouse cloud-like features, then BBM and PIM features should be available to all users. BBM could be a premium paid app or subscription for PB wi-fi users.
    PIM yes, and it has to be free feature available.

    BBM, I agree it might have to be a subscription service for it to be available on the PB wifi users.
    12-19-11 09:35 AM
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    That's why BB10's delay is so devastating. It's such a transparent lie. If QNX work were progressing on schedule there is no reason they couldn't have put out a phone based on existing or soon to be existing chips. To blame the delay on an imaginary chipset, on which by the way they are hanging the entire future of the company, they must be so arrogant to think we are all idiots.
    And you clearly know all the ins and outs of North American carrier relationships,
    potential Risk vs Reward for pitting 1 carrier against the other, and the average life span of a device as well as sell through numbers for LTE vs Non LTE at same price points.

    All of which I bet RIM took heavily into account when discussing this delay internally
    undone likes this.
    12-19-11 09:36 AM
  19. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    If RIM is going to espouse cloud-like features, then BBM and PIM features should be available to all users. BBM could be a premium paid app or subscription for PB wi-fi users.
    I'm interested in your take on how it is technically feesable to do a premium paid app for BBM

    HOW does a NON BlackBerry user get BBM on a Wifi device?
    What do you think RIM needs to do to make it happen?
    and what implications do you see from your thought process?
    12-19-11 09:39 AM
  20. undone's Avatar
    That's why BB10's delay is so devastating. It's such a transparent lie. If QNX work were progressing on schedule there is no reason they couldn't have put out a phone based on existing or soon to be existing chips. To blame the delay on an imaginary chipset, on which by the way they are hanging the entire future of the company, they must be so arrogant to think we are all idiots.
    The Telco's (like Verizon) are pushing their 4G networks and wont support another OLD 3G device. RIM wants to have a device with decent battery life, the single chip which SHOULD have been available NOW isn't. Look to manufacturing issues with Qualcomm (think its a snapdragon chip). Notice the Iphone 5 isn't out? I would hazard a guess that it will use that same chip. Now if it had not flooded and the manufacturing chain wasn't disrupted, yea I would agree with you cause the dynamic Duo is good at messing up a wet dream.
    12-19-11 09:40 AM
  21. loneweasel's Avatar
    And you clearly know all the ins and outs of North American carrier relationships,
    potential Risk vs Reward for pitting 1 carrier against the other, and the average life span of a device as well as sell through numbers for LTE vs Non LTE at same price points.

    All of which I bet RIM took heavily into account when discussing this delay internally
    Yeah, no, no benefit of the doubt for this company from me. Not after their history of lies/obfuscation/over promise and under deliver.
    12-19-11 09:40 AM
  22. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Yeah, no, no benefit of the doubt for this company from me. Not after their history of lies/obfuscation/over promise and under deliver.
    I can agree with not giving them blind faith but to look at a single point of an argument and ignore all the surrounding factors to draw a conclusion is no better than Jimbo has been blasting his mouth off without actually knowing what is happening in his own company

    Hopefully RIM has a PR firm in 2012 that carries a tranquilizer gun for anytime Jimbo walks to the mic
    12-19-11 09:46 AM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    I can agree with not giving them blind faith but to look at a single point of an argument and ignore all the surrounding factors to draw a conclusion is no better than Jimbo has been blasting his mouth off without actually knowing what is happening in his own company

    Hopefully RIM has a PR firm in 2012 that carries a tranquilizer gun for anytime Jimbo walks to the mic
    Thanks for that image, made me lol.

    The Telco's (like Verizon) are pushing their 4G networks and wont support another OLD 3G device. RIM wants to have a device with decent battery life, the single chip which SHOULD have been available NOW isn't. Look to manufacturing issues with Qualcomm (think its a snapdragon chip). Notice the Iphone 5 isn't out? I would hazard a guess that it will use that same chip. Now if it had not flooded and the manufacturing chain wasn't disrupted, yea I would agree with you cause the dynamic Duo is good at messing up a wet dream.
    Well I don't care what verizon is pushing. Even though I'm not with them I'm hoping once a bunch move to 4g that will make my 3g less crowded. So I hope my carrier will still be selling 3g phones in the future.
    12-19-11 10:00 AM
  24. menaknow's Avatar
    Well I don't care what verizon is pushing. Even though I'm not with them I'm hoping once a bunch move to 4g that will make my 3g less crowded. So I hope my carrier will still be selling 3g phones in the future.
    Unfortunately, LTE (which is what I am assuming you are referring to as 4G) is build on top of the 3G backbone. So no luck with the less crowded hopes...
    12-19-11 10:10 AM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    Unfortunately, LTE (which is what I am assuming you are referring to as 4G) is build on top of the 3G backbone. So no luck with the less crowded hopes...
    Well dang it. There goes my fantasy now LOL.
    12-19-11 10:50 AM
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