07-31-14 09:03 PM
432 ... 45678 ...
tools
  1. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I stepped back, looked, and came to the same conclusion...THERE'S NO FULL TOUCH FLAGSHIP! That's pretty major to be missing from the picture. If BlackBerry had one they went all out on then the Passport would be fine to develop because they would have something to fall back on. Instead, they have nothing. The Classic and Passport are both extremely niche, the Z3 I feel is still a bit pricey, and it definitely doesn't count as a flagship.

    You're right, the Passport isn't meant to bring back 30% of the market share. It could do the opposite. I'm not saying that BlackBerry needs one device to save the company, but the Passport could be the one device to ruin the company. So has BlackBerry given up on market share? Just make devices that a very very very very select amount of people will buy? Is that the company's plan? I'm not saying they need a cookie cutter flagship like the rest of them. They still need an all touch that will wow (they have yet to do that with BB10...both have been busts). They have had 3 chances to pump one out and have failed each time. This time they put all their cookies in one jar it seems, the Passport. A super well done flagship full touch would have boosted the company's image more than an awkward looking device, and actually might have sold.

    Who says their won't be one in calendar Q1 of 2015? Why does it have to launch NOW, when the Z30 has been out for less than a year? Yes, the Z30 is not on par spec for spec, but it is a less than 1 year old phone. The hysteria that the passport is it, and we will never see an a new all touch device just has to stop.
    07-19-14 09:41 PM
  2. ajst222's Avatar
    Who says their won't be one in calendar Q1 of 2015? Why does it have to launch NOW, when the Z30 has been out for less than a year? Yes, the Z30 is not on par spec for spec, but it is a less than 1 year old phone. The hysteria that the passport is it, and we will never see an a new all touch device just has to stop.
    If there was one planned (and if it was supposed to be SUPER high end, like it needs to me), don't you think they would have at least made some sort of announcement?
    07-19-14 09:42 PM
  3. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Not a bad feature to have, but until folks demonstrate an appreciation for a feature, a manufacturer probably won't feel pressed to add it.

    Besides, I do believe there are ways to play YouTube videos in the background on both Android and iOS 7 if one really wants to.
    People don't use the feature because they don't think it exists. When I show my friends how my browser keeps chugging away with the youtube video playing when I have it minimized, or when I have another tab open and it is the one in focus and youtube is in the background, they all ask me how I "did that". Then they ask me why they can't do that with their iPhone. People have just come to expect that their phone is good, but it's not ever going to be like Windows on the desktop. I love being able to download torrents on my phone in the background while I do other things, etc, etc. Multitasking is a nice thing. As I said in my other post, more options are better than less. Your belittling of BB10 multitasking makes me scratch my head. If iOS functioned in the exact same way, would you be saying the same thing?
    spyeagle and spikesolie like this.
    07-19-14 09:47 PM
  4. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Safari will stop playing the video. This is most likely because Safari is treating youtube for what it is, a video player. If you switch apps, you are no longer watching the video, so why have it open? Yes there is the argument for listening to music on youtube and that is understandable (for those who actually use youtube to listen to music).

    I personally have no problems with it because I never use youtube to listen to music. I have Spotify, Pandora, and the music that is on my device storage.
    If you open spotify or pandora, start playing music, hit the home button and open Candy crush, what will happen?
    07-19-14 09:49 PM
  5. zocster's Avatar
    Good to see folks are chatting nicely here, keep up the positive discussion!

    Sent from pin:2AD743B7 via Tapatalk Pro
    southlander likes this.
    07-19-14 09:51 PM
  6. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    If there was one planned (and if it was supposed to be SUPER high end, like it needs to me), don't you think they would have at least made some sort of announcement?
    No.

    Apple never announces anything until the day of. Their are unofficial leaks, but never anything formal. With that said, there have been various rumours of the Z50 coming. I believe we will see it next year. The passport and Q20 (aka Classic) were already in the pipeline after the Z30, so it does not surprise me in the least that we are seeing these devices launch now with no mention of another future device to steal their thunder.
    07-19-14 09:56 PM
  7. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Because it doesn't appear there will be a "Z50" or whatever it might be called. That's where the worry is. And even if there was, launching it that late would be bad news. All there is on the market now is the aging Z30 which a lot didn't find to be competitive to begin with.
    Ageing? The phone is less than 1 year old. The Z30 did not sell well for a myriad of reasons. Blaming it on specs alone is not something I agree with. I'd put horrific marketing (or lack-thereof) and the fact the company was up for sale when it launched as two of the biggest factors.
    07-19-14 09:59 PM
  8. glamrlama's Avatar
    Running back? Some of us never left! BB10 is awesome and can not imagine not having a BB10 device.
    07-19-14 10:00 PM
  9. ajst222's Avatar
    No.

    Apple never announces anything until the day of. Their are unofficial leaks, but never anything formal. With that said, there have been various rumours of the Z50 coming. I believe we will see it next year. The passport and Q20 (aka Classic) were already in the pipeline after the Z30, so it does not surprise me in the least that we are seeing these devices launch now with no mention of another future device to steal their thunder.
    First off, BlackBerry is not Apple. Second off, BlackBerry already announced 2 of their upcoming phones, so that just ruins your Apple comparison argument. Third off, a Z50 was rumored far before the Passport (Windermere) and the Classic (Q20) were rumored and leaked.
    JeepBB likes this.
    07-19-14 10:00 PM
  10. sin-co's Avatar
    The negative reaction, if there is any, will mostly be directed towards the decision to remove numbers and punctuation from the primary physical keyboard along with the three-row versus traditional four-row keyboard layout as a potential secondary contender. The form-factor of the BlackBerry Passport is not terrible but if it deviates from the physical dimensions (length and width) of a paper passport the name will be ridiculed much as was the BlackBerry "PlayBook" sports metaphor for a "professional-grade" tablet as it was initially touted.
    I was skeptical to the missing numbers as well, until I saw the leak video of the passport. The numbers and punctuation keys will be there when you want them. They will glow under the letters and the keypad is the trackpad.
    I now have a different view of the passport and like it.
    Can someone share the link to the leak video?
    07-19-14 10:00 PM
  11. ajst222's Avatar
    Ageing? The phone is less than 1 year old. The Z30 did not sell well for a myriad of reasons. Blaming it on specs alone is not something I agree with. I'd put horrific marketing (or lack-thereof) and the fact the company was up for sale when it launched as two of the biggest factors.
    Yes...aging. It means continually getting older. I didn't say it was "old" yet, though it kind of was dated on arrival as far as specs go. Whether people think you really need the specs is beside the argument though because it was one of the reasons the Z30 didn't sell. It was a very bland un-"wow"ing phone.
    07-19-14 10:02 PM
  12. vrud's Avatar
    Why does it have to launch NOW, when the Z30 has been out for less than a year?
    "I want it now" syndrome.
    There are numerous studies on delayed gratification and most conclude that age is a significant factor. In other words, the younger you are, the more difficult it is to resist.
    BlackBerry started playing with consumer market targeting younger population, so expect a lot of "I want the best specs phone now" messages.
    I saw a lot of resistance to the idea of sticking to an older piece of electronics or another appliance on these forums.
    07-19-14 10:05 PM
  13. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Just wait...now suddenly everyone will start saying how inconvenient it is that you have to use the BROWSER!
    It's interesting you mention that. If you think to back in the day, PC based applications existed in the form of thick clients installed locally. As the world evolved, things shifted to browser based apps with less and less thick client components being installed locally. This was a good thing. And frankly, we cannot get there soon enough in the mobile phone arena. Why we need locally installed apps for websites when a robust browser based app can do the job is beyond me. I look at online banking apps as a prime example. Companies pour money into developing iOS and Android apps when all they need to do is make a really good browser based site that does everything an app would do.
    07-19-14 10:09 PM
  14. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    First off, BlackBerry is not Apple. Second off, BlackBerry already announced 2 of their upcoming phones, so that just ruins your Apple comparison argument. Third off, a Z50 was rumored far before the Passport (Windermere) and the Classic (Q20) were rumored and leaked.
    They announced them 3 months before release. And I believe they did it more to calm the Q10 anger (no belt) and also show the keyboard lover something cool to look forward to. So expect a Z50 announcement in January of 2015.
    07-19-14 10:14 PM
  15. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    Because it doesn't appear there will be a "Z50" or whatever it might be called. That's where the worry is. And even if there was, launching it that late would be bad news. All there is on the market now is the aging Z30 which a lot didn't find to be competitive to begin with.
    There will always be new devices on the roadmap. Whether it will come out of the production line is another story. Z10 and Z30 failed. Q10 failed for reason of adaptation from OS7 to OS10 by majority of BB customers. Passport and Classic essentially are the last attempt on BlackBerry part to decide if they have any reasons to stay in hardware business. I doubt this decision to issue these two phones is base on John Chan throwing a dart at the board. The numbers do not lie. Majority are still hanging on to the OS 7 and many are reluctant to let go of their keyboard devices. These new phones are mean to get OS7 customers to transition to OS10 and bring back some former clients from another platform as well. These are the target customers of BlackBerry not the Z10, Z30, Q10 owners, not the Androids or the Iphones. If BlackBerry cannot convince majority of these core customers to come back. There is no future for BlackBerry handset business. The company might just be exiting out and join forces with Window to focus on enterprise services. This is the situation BlackBerry is grapple with. The future of BlackBerry hardware business is that dire. We can debate about the aesthetics or specs til death at this point. Passport and Classics simply has to convince the core customers to cross over and come back.
    07-19-14 10:14 PM
  16. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    It's interesting you mention that. If you think to back in the day, PC based applications existed in the form of thick clients installed locally. As the world evolved, things shifted to browser based apps with less and less thick client components being installed locally. This was a good thing. And frankly, we cannot get there soon enough in the mobile phone arena. Why we need locally installed apps for websites when a robust browser based app can do the job is beyond me. I look at online banking apps as a prime example. Companies pour money into developing iOS and Android apps when all they need to do is make a really good browser based site that does everything an app would do.
    In some cases, a mobile app would have better functionality with mobility in mind though. I can bank via the browser, but an app gives me deposit features I really don't/can't do on a laptop.

    Same goes for, say, a department store app. Probably easier to create a special app that enhances on-site sales than a browser client aimed at people shopping online.
    07-19-14 10:18 PM
  17. gokulesh's Avatar
    Passport sure evokes some powerful emotions.

    The thread started out about some blog. And is turning into full touch versus passport discussion.

    If nothing else this tells me BlackBerry is on the right path. For them to have produced a device that gets so much emotional response from fans and non-fans is sight to behold. Can't remember last time a BlackBerry device was able to do this.




    Posted via CB10
    menshawy, spikesolie and ghundiraj like this.
    07-19-14 10:21 PM
  18. WorkStation 0's Avatar
    It's interesting you mention that. If you think to back in the day, PC based applications existed in the form of thick clients installed locally. As the world evolved, things shifted to browser based apps with less and less thick client components being installed locally. This was a good thing. And frankly, we cannot get there soon enough in the mobile phone arena. Why we need locally installed apps for websites when a robust browser based app can do the job is beyond me. I look at online banking apps as a prime example. Companies pour money into developing iOS and Android apps when all they need to do is make a really good browser based site that does everything an app would do.
    I totally disagree.

    I bank with USAA. The experience of using the mobile application is far more convenient than a browser. I launch the app, PIN log in and done.

    I think you are missing the point.

    Browsers are great for web surfing. But what if you aren't surfing? What if you just want to check your balance?
    07-19-14 10:30 PM
  19. lift's Avatar
    Passport sure evokes some powerful emotions.

    The thread started out about some blog. And is turning into full touch versus passport discussion.

    If nothing else this tells me BlackBerry is on the right path. For them to have produced a device that gets so much emotional response from fans and non-fans is sight to behold. Can't remember last time a BlackBerry device was able to do this.




    Posted via CB10
    The emotional response BlackBerry is getting from many of it's fans is not a good response. Many of us fans are worried that this device is heading the company in the wrong direction and possibly to failure. Also, if BlackBerry is focused just on enterprise and they think enterprise is only comprised of people who want QWERTY devices, then I am also very worried that they will not be producing anymore high end all touch devices. The Z3 is all touch but is low end for emerging markets. Where are the leaks or announcements of any high end all touch devices? That is very worrisome.
    07-19-14 10:34 PM
  20. lift's Avatar
    Good to see folks are chatting nicely here, keep up the positive discussion!

    Sent from pin:2AD743B7 via Tapatalk Pro
    We are trying to be good boy's and girl's.
    zocster likes this.
    07-19-14 10:37 PM
  21. boeingrules's Avatar
    To be honest, he has a point in that you shouldn't buy a phone just for the sake of nostalgia. I made this mistake when I bought my Z10. I just heard from some of my friends that it was a good phone, and then I bought it without any further research. I came from a curve, which I think might be even better than my Z10, and which I have very fond memories of.

    To be honest, I do regret buying my Z10. It was such a traumatizing experience that I won't be buying another BlackBerry until they actually release a stellar device. Which the Z10 is not.

    Posted via CB10
    07-19-14 10:40 PM
  22. lift's Avatar
    To be honest, he has a point in that you shouldn't buy a phone just for the sake of nostalgia. I made this mistake when I bought my Z10. I just heard from some of my friends that it was a good phone, and then I bought it without any further research. I came from a curve, which I think might be even better than my Z10, and which I have very fond memories of.

    To be honest, I do regret buying my Z10. It was such a traumatizing experience that I won't be buying another BlackBerry until they actually release a stellar device. Which the Z10 is not.

    Posted via CB10
    May I ask what is so horribly wrong with the Z10? Other than a poor battery (which many other phones suffer from). I use a Z10 and a Z30 and I love them both.
    spikesolie likes this.
    07-19-14 10:48 PM
  23. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    May I ask what is so horribly wrong with the Z10? Other than a poor battery (which many other phones suffer from). I use a Z10 and a Z30 and I love them both.
    Not to answer for him, but personally, nothing too wrong with the hardware, IMHO. Problem being, hardware doesn't move devices, IMHO.
    07-19-14 10:51 PM
  24. slagman5's Avatar
    The reason why full touch phones for BlackBerry haven't taken off is because they haven't gotten them right. Both have been overpriced. The Z10 had awful battery life, along with an adequate camera and speakers. The Z30 had a less than adequate screen and didn't have much in the way of an updated processor. The argument of whether those are really "needed" for the Z30 (because I know I'll get those) are beside the point. People will THINK that they need them, and that's one reason why they're turned away.

    I'm not saying another cookie cutter smartphone. They really need to go all out in every aspect they can to send the message that it ain't you granddaddy's BlackBerry. That will create a cooler image for BlackBerry much faster than some weird niche phone.

    You're saying that a full touch flagship won't sell, what about the Passport? That will have an even SMALLER market, by a lot. Who would want that? That physical keyboard market is already small enough and then you would have to make an even smaller fraction for those who would want a device of that odd form factor.
    Poor battery life and inadequate camera? The HTC One M8 has a 5mp camera, and like 90% of the Android and iphones out there have terrible battery lives...

    So again, it's nothing about the phones, it's simply the negative stigma of the brand and the need for people now to feel like they are "cool" or "belong" that causes the low sales.

    I can tell you personally, I talk to people all of the time about cell phones, among my group of friends I'm the tech geek. So they often come to me for advice when it comes to anything tech. Do you know how many times people have asked me about my phone to the point where after I showed it to them they say straight up that they would much prefer the physical keyboard like mine, but then they end up buying a Samsung or a iPhone, and do you know what 100% of them said was the reason? "Because the salesperson said this was the cool/popular phone to have." Seriously, not a single one have changed their mind about keyboards to get the latest Samsung or iPhone had a single "technical" reason about any "must-have" feature or anything. It's ALWAYS "This is the phone to have to be cool" is literally what they admit to me...

    But hey, you obviously know something I don't know...

    All I know is that I haven't seen so much buzz around BB like we see now since the unveiling of the Passport... But hey, it must be coincidence and another glass slab would have gotten more attention magically...

    Edit: Also, don't get me wrong. I'm not diluted to think that just because I personally prefer a physical keyboard that it will magically revive BB or that it's what everyone else wants. Unlike some other people here apparently are, I don't use my own preferences as a standard for every one else... I recognize that the "cool" thing now is the all-touch phone. My point is that NOBODY even tries BB10 before they decide it is not for them. It could be the best phone or the worst phone, it won't matter if people don't even bother looking at it. It's because of the brand stigma. They need to get past that and get people's attention to push through that. And another "me too" all-touch will not get noticed at all. The Passport is odd enough that it has people intrigued, even people who talk crap about BB are intrigued by it. And keep in mind I am not at all interested in the Passport so I'm not just saying that because it was my preference...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    spyeagle and spikesolie like this.
    07-19-14 10:57 PM
  25. ajst222's Avatar
    Poor battery life and inadequate camera? The HTC One M8 has a 5mp camera, and like 90% of the Android and iphones out there have terrible battery lives...

    So again, it's nothing about the phones, it's simply the negative stigma of the brand and the need for people now to feel like they are "cool" or "belong" that causes the low sales.

    I can tell you personally, I talk to people all of the time about cell phones, among my group of friends I'm the tech geek. So they often come to me for advice when it comes to anything tech. Do you know how many times people have asked me about my phone to the point where after I showed it to them they say straight up that they would much prefer the physical keyboard like mine, but then they end up buying a Samsung or a iPhone, and do you know what 100% of them said was the reason? "Because the salesperson said this was the cool/popular phone to have." Seriously, not a single one have changed their mind about keyboards to get the latest Samsung or iPhone had a single "technical" reason about any "must-have" feature or anything. It's ALWAYS "This is the phone to have to be cool" is literally what they admit to me...

    But hey, you obviously know something I don't know...

    All I know is that I haven't seen so much buzz around BB like we see now since the unveiling of the Passport... But hey, it must be coincidence and another glass slab would have gotten more attention magically...

    Edit: Also, don't get me wrong. I'm not diluted to think that just because I personally prefer a physical keyboard that it will magically revive BB or that it's what everyone else wants. Unlike some other people here apparently are, I don't use my own preferences as a standard for every one else... I recognize that the "cool" thing now is the all-touch phone. My point is that NOBODY even tries BB10 before they decide it is not for them. It could be the best phone or the worst phone, it won't matter if people don't even bother looking at it. It's because of the brand stigma. They need to get past that and get people's attention to push through that. And another "me too" all-touch will not get noticed at all. The Passport is odd enough that it has people intrigued, even people who talk crap about BB are intrigued by it. And keep in mind I am not at all interested in the Passport so I'm not just saying that because it was my preference...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    The M8 (and M7) cameras are both better than the Z10/Z30's. The MP doesn't determine it all. As far as battery life goes, the Galaxy S4, LG G2, and the HTC One (more iffy) all got quite good battery life. That was the Z10's Android competition. The iPhone 5 also got quite good battery life, (though the 5s does not, but that doesn't matter for this discussion) and that was the Z10's iPhone competition.

    As far as everything you said after that, it was just regurgitation of what you said before which I addressed already.
    afhstingray likes this.
    07-19-14 11:10 PM
432 ... 45678 ...

Similar Threads

  1. BlackBerry Z10's Failure
    By bubbbab in forum BlackBerry Z10
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 08-17-14, 11:13 PM
  2. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-22-14, 11:10 PM
  3. BlackBerry and the security niche
    By DC364 in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-22-14, 12:55 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-22-14, 09:55 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD