07-31-14 09:03 PM
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  1. ajst222's Avatar
    Yes, forget everyone who cares more about typing accuracy than watching netflix on their phones. Lets just all only make all-touch devices. I'm sure that would save BB...

    I'm not a fan of the Passport because I'd rather have a full keyboard, but the Passport has generated more buzz for BB than any "me too" all-touch that looks the same as 99% of the other phones out there would do. So if it gets them in the papers, I say it's working. It's just weird enough to get attention, which I feel is a good thing. Yet another glass slab isn't going to do anything. It'll still have the BlackBerry name attached to it which means people will automatically attribute it to being "uncool" and "unpopular" which is enough for most people to avoid it. They need something different enough that will draw their attention more than that aspect of the brand, and the Passport seems to be working so far...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    The reason why full touch phones for BlackBerry haven't taken off is because they haven't gotten them right. Both have been overpriced. The Z10 had awful battery life, along with an adequate camera and speakers. The Z30 had a less than adequate screen and didn't have much in the way of an updated processor. The argument of whether those are really "needed" for the Z30 (because I know I'll get those) are beside the point. People will THINK that they need them, and that's one reason why they're turned away.

    I'm not saying another cookie cutter smartphone. They really need to go all out in every aspect they can to send the message that it ain't you granddaddy's BlackBerry. That will create a cooler image for BlackBerry much faster than some weird niche phone.

    You're saying that a full touch flagship won't sell, what about the Passport? That will have an even SMALLER market, by a lot. Who would want that? That physical keyboard market is already small enough and then you would have to make an even smaller fraction for those who would want a device of that odd form factor.
    lift and Melinium like this.
    07-19-14 07:45 PM
  2. ajst222's Avatar
    So keep it simple like they've done the past 3 high end devices? The most successful companies have at one point or the other faced make or break situation and trying to err on the side of caution usually doesn't provide much in terms of make..

    Posted via CB10
    The other high end devices have been busts (see my previous post)
    07-19-14 07:47 PM
  3. MmmHmm's Avatar
    Safari will stop playing the video. This is most likely because Safari is treating youtube for what it is, a video player. If you switch apps, you are no longer watching the video, so why have it open? Yes there is the argument for listening to music on youtube and that is understandable (for those who actually use youtube to listen to music).

    I personally have no problems with it because I never use youtube to listen to music. I have Spotify, Pandora, and the music that is on my device storage.
    On the iphone, if you start a video on YouTube in Safari and then leave the app, the video will pause. If you want to continue listening to the sound only, swipe up from the bottom bezel and tap the play button in the control center. The sound will start back up again and you can do anything you want on the iphone while listening to the video. Text, email, whatever, all while the sound plays. It is a common myth on crackberry that ios won't multitask in this way. The official YouTube app, unlike the browser, is written by google to not allow this, but youtube in the browser works fine.
    ajst222, JeepBB and laketrout73 like this.
    07-19-14 07:51 PM
  4. ajst222's Avatar
    100% disagree.

    Step back for a moment. The competatively priced, all-touch Z3 is currently launching in emerging markets around the globe. The Passport -- a touch & keyboard hybrid with new formfactor & keyboard layout -- is launching in September. The Classic -- a touch & keyboard hybrid with the traditional Berry footprint -- is launching next year.

    The Passport is not intendened to take back 30% of the marketshare in one fell swoop.

    This is a ground game: continue to become competative in all-touch, intoduce an innovative qwerty, launch a more traditional qwerty, and then probably launch an updated high-end touch (or maybe 2). These things are in the pipeline in this order for good reasons. This is a business model for growth: This is not a "one Super Bowl add must save us" device.
    I stepped back, looked, and came to the same conclusion...THERE'S NO FULL TOUCH FLAGSHIP! That's pretty major to be missing from the picture. If BlackBerry had one they went all out on then the Passport would be fine to develop because they would have something to fall back on. Instead, they have nothing. The Classic and Passport are both extremely niche, the Z3 I feel is still a bit pricey, and it definitely doesn't count as a flagship.

    You're right, the Passport isn't meant to bring back 30% of the market share. It could do the opposite. I'm not saying that BlackBerry needs one device to save the company, but the Passport could be the one device to ruin the company. So has BlackBerry given up on market share? Just make devices that a very very very very select amount of people will buy? Is that the company's plan? I'm not saying they need a cookie cutter flagship like the rest of them. They still need an all touch that will wow (they have yet to do that with BB10...both have been busts). They have had 3 chances to pump one out and have failed each time. This time they put all their cookies in one jar it seems, the Passport. A super well done flagship full touch would have boosted the company's image more than an awkward looking device, and actually might have sold.
    lift and menshawy like this.
    07-19-14 07:59 PM
  5. lift's Avatar
    The reason why full touch phones for BlackBerry haven't taken off is because they haven't gotten them right. Both have been overpriced. The Z10 had awful battery life, along with an adequate camera and speakers. The Z30 had a less than adequate screen and didn't have much in the way of an updated processor. The argument of whether those are really "needed" for the Z30 (because I know I'll get those) are beside the point. People will THINK that they need them, and that's one reason why they're turned away.

    I'm not saying another cookie cutter smartphone. They really need to go all out in every aspect they can to send the message that it ain't you granddaddy's BlackBerry. That will create a cooler image for BlackBerry much faster than some weird niche phone.

    You're saying that a full touch flagship won't sell, what about the Passport? That will have an even SMALLER market, by a lot. Who would want that? That physical keyboard market is already small enough and then you would have to make an even smaller fraction for those who would want a device of that odd form factor.
    Really good points. I really agree with you. The physical keyboard market is getting smaller every year. BlackBerry makes a really good all touch keyboard. Why don't the diehard physical keyboard people help BlackBerry by buying their all touch devices? Get used to the all touch keyboard and move on just like the other 99.8% of the population has. If BlackBerry totally fails that is what you are going to have to do anyway.
    ajst222 likes this.
    07-19-14 08:02 PM
  6. ajst222's Avatar
    Really good points. I really agree with you. The physical keyboard market is getting smaller every year. BlackBerry makes a really good all touch keyboard. Why don't the diehard physical keyboard people help BlackBerry by buying their all touch devices? Get used to the all touch keyboard and move on just like the other 99.8% of the population has. If BlackBerry totally fails that is what you are going to have to do anyway.
    The last sentence is very well said, though I'm not saying BlackBerry fans should buy their full touch devices just to help the company (though it sounds like an idea some of those crazed fanboys would come up with) . BlackBerry should make their own Typos, and ideally get out of the handset business and focus on that along with BBM, BES, etc
    07-19-14 08:07 PM
  7. lift's Avatar
    I stepped back, looked, and came to the same conclusion...THERE'S NO FULL TOUCH FLAGSHIP! That's pretty major to be missing from the picture. If BlackBerry had one they went all out on then the Passport would be fine to develop because they would have something to fall back on. Instead, they have nothing. The Classic and Passport are both extremely niche, the Z3 I feel is still a bit pricey, and it definitely doesn't count as a flagship.

    You're right, the Passport isn't meant to bring back 30% of the market share. It could do the opposite. I'm not saying that BlackBerry needs one device to save the company, but the Passport could be the one device to ruin the company. So has BlackBerry given up on market share? Just make devices that a very very very very select amount of people will buy? Is that the company's plan? I'm not saying they need a cookie cutter flagship like the rest of them. They still need an all touch that will wow (they have yet to do that with BB10...both have been busts). They have had 3 chances to pump one out and have failed each time. This time they put all their cookies in one jar it seems, the Passport. A super well done flagship full touch would have boosted the company's image more than an awkward looking device, and actually might have sold.
    Again, more great points. Glad I am not alone here.
    ajst222 likes this.
    07-19-14 08:10 PM
  8. lift's Avatar
    The last sentence is very well said, though I'm not saying BlackBerry fans should buy their full touch devices just to help the company (though it sounds like an idea some of those crazed fanboys would come up with) . BlackBerry should make their own Typos, and ideally get out of the handset business and focus on that along with BBM, BES, etc
    Why not? Maybe the diehard BlackBerry qwerty fans should buy the all touch devices to help the company. There are a ton of people here that claim they want BlackBerry to succeed, then help them do just that. Buy an all touch device, get used to it and show it off to your friends. The physical keyboard BlackBerry phones are not going to convince your friends to buy a BlackBerry.
    Again, where are you qwerty fans going to go if BlackBerry fails? There is nowhere to go.
    07-19-14 08:14 PM
  9. lift's Avatar
    Oh, if you are wondering if I put my money where my mouth is, I own 6 BlackBerry all touch phones. 3 Verizon Z30's and 3 STL100-3 Z10's. I show my phones off to my friends and family all the time. Some say they didn't know BlackBerry made all touch phones. More people need to buy the all touch phones and get them out there to help BlackBerry in the long term.
    07-19-14 08:18 PM
  10. evodevo69's Avatar
    People are forgetting that JC said himself that BlackBerry aims to sell about 10million devices to be profitable on handsets - they aren't aiming big anymore nor are they aiming for the consumer market.

    Reading the interview with the senior VP of marketing and combining this with all the events they've been hosting on IoT, BES, and JC's blog posts all point to one conclusion - they're focusing on enterprise.

    They're not stupid - even if BlackBerry released the highest spec'd all-touch device it still wouldn't sell, if they priced it cheap - people would think it's a cheap BlackBerry and it wouldn't sell either.

    They only markets that matter right now, are the emerging markets. Unfortunately in mature markets like NA, BlackBerry is as good as dead at the moment - except in enterprise.

    That's where the Passport and Classic come in.

    Do you honestly want to be an instagraming attention ***** iPhone user? Or a dork who roots their phone adding custom ROMs thinking this is flexibility on android phones?

    Or do you want to be that guy with the suit on holding his Passport?

    I don't really care if BlackBerry will ever become cool again - i only care if they continue to make handsets b/c any BlackBerry user knows how awesome the OS is, how well built the phones are, and just how productive the phones can be. And any weaknesses like android apps and voice assistant are going to be addressed with the new run time and Maluba.

    Think about it - running android apps even better than they run now?

    A voice assistant that is going to be even smarter and better than both siri and Google voice?

    That combined with bb10 OS is going to be one kick-*** combination and I don't care if the masses will recognize this. I just want to be able to use it and if that means BlackBerry only focuses on a small market and can make instead of lose money from it, then so be it.

    In the early days when BlackBerry was new, it was the corporate user that gave it prestige while the masses were dinking around with their flip phones b/c they didn't have important enough roles in society to require email and bbm and qwerty keyboards.

    Then as soon as the teenieboppers and joe the plumber started using them, they lost their prestige factor and it was EASY for apple to become that cool must have device b/c it was new and it met their needs (ie. Lifestyle vs productivity).

    The masses don't need the efficiency of bb10, nor the accuracy of the qwerty, nor the trackpad, and they won't need the Passport. But some of us do.





    Posted via CB10 Right on Cue
    Last edited by evodevo69; 07-19-14 at 08:40 PM.
    07-19-14 08:20 PM
  11. lift's Avatar
    People are forgetting that JC said himself that BlackBerry aims to sell about 10million devices to be profitable on handsets - they aren't aiming big anymore nor are they aiming for the consumer market.

    Reading the interview with the senior VP of marketing and combining this with all the events they've been hosting on IoT, BES, and JC's blog posts all point to one conclusion - they're focusing on enterprise.

    They're not stupid - even if BlackBerry released the highest spec'd all-touch device it still wouldn't sell, if they priced it cheap - people would think it's a cheap BlackBerry and it wouldn't sell either.

    They only markets that matter right now, are the emerging markets. Unfortunately in mature markets like NA, BlackBerry is as good as dead at the moment - except in enterprise.

    That's where the Passport and Classic come in.

    Do you honestly want to be an instagraming attention ***** iPhone user? Or a dork who roots their phone adding custom ROMs thinking this is flexibility on android phones?

    Or do you want to be that guy with the suit on holding his Passport?

    Posted via CB10 Right on Cue
    I don't want to be any of those things. (Especially the android or iphone folks). I want to be the business man wearing a suit and using an awesome all touch BlackBerry. My Z10's and Z30's are business phones. So what is wrong with continuing to improve on the all touch market. It's still enterprise. All the new BlackBerry's share the same business oriented OS. Lot's of companies are switching to iphone and android and they are all touch. You can still be enterprise focused and produce great all touch phones.
    ajst222 and menshawy like this.
    07-19-14 08:29 PM
  12. lift's Avatar
    This myth that only QWERTY phones are enterprise phones is just that. A myth. Lot's of company's are moving away from BlackBerry and they are not going to other QWERTY phones. There are none. So BlackBerry needs to stop the physical key crap that is hurting their reputation and keep on developing the great on screen keypads they have now.
    ajst222 and menshawy like this.
    07-19-14 08:34 PM
  13. vietnamesetan's Avatar
    A article written by an *****

    Posted via CB10
    07-19-14 08:38 PM
  14. spikesolie's Avatar
    Not a bad feature to have, but until folks demonstrate an appreciation for a feature, a manufacturer probably won't feel pressed to add it.

    Besides, I do believe there are ways to play YouTube videos in the background on both Android and iOS 7 if one really wants to.
    Well that's ironic since apple advertises "multitasking " as a feature. At least they did idk about now so that's also imo wrong to say people don't want to multi task

    Posted via CB10
    07-19-14 08:45 PM
  15. evodevo69's Avatar
    This myth that only QWERTY phones are enterprise phones is just that. A myth. Lot's of company's are moving away from BlackBerry and they are not going to other QWERTY phones. There are none. So BlackBerry needs to stop the physical key crap that is hurting their reputation and keep on developing the great on screen keypads they have now.
    I don't disagree - my point is that BlackBerry IS enterprise and within this segment there IS a need for the qwerty.

    What reputation? The mass market reputation? They're done with that. Dead. BlackBerry can make a Z50 or Z100 and it wouldn't matter to the mass market.

    My point is - is that the Classic and Passport will only help them, not hurt them.

    And I also recognize there are those users who prefer all touch - I also agree you can be productive with all-touch (only if it's a BlackBerry phone tho ), and trust me - they're going to come out with a new all touch in 2015.



    Posted via CB10 Right on Cue
    lift and wincyUt like this.
    07-19-14 08:45 PM
  16. spikesolie's Avatar
    Really good points. I really agree with you. The physical keyboard market is getting smaller every year. BlackBerry makes a really good all touch keyboard. Why don't the diehard physical keyboard people help BlackBerry by buying their all touch devices? Get used to the all touch keyboard and move on just like the other 99.8% of the population has. If BlackBerry totally fails that is what you are going to have to do anyway.
    Narrow way of life to live. Why do the diehard have to adjust to something they do not like to help BlackBerry? Are they getting paid!? The reason they are diehard keyboard fans is because they love keyboards and they have their reasons for that. Do not be narrow-minded.

    From a z10 user who couldn't type an apology letter on a qwerty if his life depended on it

    Posted via CB10
    lift and wincyUt like this.
    07-19-14 08:48 PM
  17. lift's Avatar
    Narrow way of life to live. Why do the diehard have to adjust to something they do not like to help BlackBerry? Are they getting paid!? The reason they are diehard keyboard fans is because they love keyboards and they have their reasons for that. Do not be narrow-minded.

    From a z10 user who couldn't type an apology letter on a qwerty if his life depended on it

    Posted via CB10
    Why would anyone think I LIVE a narrow life because of my opinions about smartphones. Come on. I didn't mean to come across as narrow minded though. I know there a still many people that love physical keypads. I had a slider phone for many years. I liked the physical keys. I went from that to the Z10. The all touch keypad on the Z10 is just awesome. It took a while to get used to it. I love the flicking, the predictive text and the auto correct. Now, I can never go back to a physical keyboard. I even tried a Q10 on 2 separate occasions. I bought a Q10, used it for a few days and sold it. Then some time later on I did the same thing again just to make sure I was happy with the onscreen keypad. I now know I can never go back to a keypad again. I think some people have just never really given the onscreen keypad a chance. They just don't want to and they don't know what they are missing in my opinion.
    07-19-14 09:01 PM
  18. ajst222's Avatar
    I don't want to be any of those things. (Especially the android or iphone folks). I want to be the business man wearing a suit and using an awesome all touch BlackBerry. My Z10's and Z30's are business phones. So what is wrong with continuing to improve on the all touch market. It's still enterprise. All the new BlackBerry's share the same business oriented OS. Lot's of companies are switching to iphone and android and they are all touch. You can still be enterprise focused and produce great all touch phones.
    Completely agree, yet BlackBerry keeps pushing out physical keyboard phones aimed at the business market and are still losing. The world has evolved to full touch, and in fact, when talking about full touch phones, we don't usually use that term...we just say "phones". That's how far we are past the evolution of physical keyboard phones where we don't even have to describe the form factor. There's one, and that's where it's at.
    lift and menshawy like this.
    07-19-14 09:09 PM
  19. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    Why would anyone think I LIVE a narrow life because of my opinions about smartphones. Come on. I didn't mean to come across as narrow minded though. I know there a still many people that love physical keypads. I had a slider phone for many years. I liked the physical keys. I went from that to the Z10. The all touch keypad on the Z10 is just awesome. It took a while to get used to it. I love the flicking, the predictive text and the auto correct. Now, I can never go back to a physical keyboard. I even tried a Q10 on 2 separate occasions. I bought a Q10, used it for a few days and sold it. Then some time later on I did the same thing again just to make sure I was happy with the onscreen keypad. I now know I can never go back to a keypad again. I think some people have just never really given the onscreen keypad a chance. They just don't want to and they don't know what they are missing in my opinion.
    What if BlackBerry tell you that Passport is not for the consumers market? It's main purpose is to attract the enterprise clients. Should the demand far exceed the company expectation somehow spill over to the consumer's market, it's ready to produce more to meet the demand. If it fail at least the company does not have to deal with another write down like the previous BB10 devices.
    wincyUt likes this.
    07-19-14 09:20 PM
  20. spikesolie's Avatar
    Why would anyone think I LIVE a narrow life because of my opinions about smartphones. Come on. I didn't mean to come across as narrow minded though. I know there a still many people that love physical keypads. I had a slider phone for many years. I liked the physical keys. I went from that to the Z10. The all touch keypad on the Z10 is just awesome. It took a while to get used to it. I love the flicking, the predictive text and the auto correct. Now, I can never go back to a physical keyboard. I even tried a Q10 on 2 separate occasions. I bought a Q10, used it for a few days and sold it. Then some time later on I did the same thing again just to make sure I was happy with the onscreen keypad. I now know I can never go back to a keypad again. I think some people have just never really given the onscreen keypad a chance. They just don't want to and they don't know what they are missing in my opinion.
    What if I tell you that there are people that have switched from qwerty to say the iPhone and missed the keyboard so much they came back?

    Posted via CB10
    07-19-14 09:28 PM
  21. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I don't think that some people understand why playing music videos in the background is not high on most folks multitasking bucket lists LOL.
    Maybe some folks have youtube playlists that they like listening to while they do other things on their devices? I know I like to do this on occasion. Whether the songs on their playlist(s) happen to be videos or just audio tracks is irrelevant if they just want to *listen* to the song(s).

    Your argument that this feature is not needed is like Blackberry saying that keyboards are fine as nobody wants to type on glass. LOL. And imagine if desktop Windows couldn't do something so basic?

    At the end of the day I'm glad BB10 is as robust as it is that I can multi-task away to my hearts content. Having the option to do it is never a bad thing, yet you are waving your hand at it like it's useless.

    Not surprised Troy liked your post either. LOL.
    spyeagle likes this.
    07-19-14 09:30 PM
  22. ajst222's Avatar
    What if I tell you that there are people that have switched from qwerty to say the iPhone and missed the keyboard so much they came back?

    Posted via CB10
    I'd say that's almost completely meaningless as it's a very small amount considering that most people are on iPhone and Android anyways, and ESPECIALLY considering the very VERY small amount of Q10 (or other) users out there.
    lift likes this.
    07-19-14 09:31 PM
  23. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Everything I would have said has been stated, and very well, right here.
    Why does it have to be an either/or? Why can't they launch the passport in calendar Q4, and the Z50 in calendar Q1 2015? It's not like they are banking the company on it. The hysteria over this phone is unreal. At least they've learned their lesson with inventory and won't have any massive write-downs if it flops.
    gokulesh likes this.
    07-19-14 09:35 PM
  24. ajst222's Avatar
    On the iphone, if you start a video on YouTube in Safari and then leave the app, the video will pause. If you want to continue listening to the sound only, swipe up from the bottom bezel and tap the play button in the control center. The sound will start back up again and you can do anything you want on the iphone while listening to the video. Text, email, whatever, all while the sound plays. It is a common myth on crackberry that ios won't multitask in this way. The official YouTube app, unlike the browser, is written by google to not allow this, but youtube in the browser works fine.
    Just wait...now suddenly everyone will start saying how inconvenient it is that you have to use the BROWSER!
    igor10000 and JeepBB like this.
    07-19-14 09:38 PM
  25. ajst222's Avatar
    Why does it have to be an either/or? Why can't they launch the passport in calendar Q4, and the Z50 in calendar Q1 2015? It's not like they are banking the company on it. The hysteria over this phone is unreal. At least they've learned their lesson with inventory and won't have any massive write-downs if it flops.
    Because it doesn't appear there will be a "Z50" or whatever it might be called. That's where the worry is. And even if there was, launching it that late would be bad news. All there is on the market now is the aging Z30 which a lot didn't find to be competitive to begin with.
    lift and JeepBB like this.
    07-19-14 09:40 PM
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