08-17-14 02:28 PM
44 12
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  1. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    Market share will not be an issue when Apple releases the iPhone 6. They will sell tens of millions of them to their loyal user base and as a consumer products manufacture, that's the payoff for great marketing and brand loyalty.

    I remember back in the early days when Blackberry used to be in the same position, then came competition, lack of vision and poor management and here we are today.


    Sent using the CB forums app.
    I suspect this is what the OP is implying could happen to Apple and Samsung. I can see why people might think it of Apple- they don't actually come out with a lot of innovations. But I think there are a couple of important differences.

    1. Apple is a consumer focused company. BlackBerry wasn't. To BlackBerry the consumer interest was an accidental by-product of their enterprise focus. Apple and Samsung focus first on the consumer and you can see that difference in the phones designs and marketing. This means their fingers are more on the pulse of the consumer.

    2. Apple has already been through a severe downturn and they have BlackBerry's example in front of them to learn from. I would hope that they've learned how to ride the wave and not to get sunk.

    That's not to say that I think they will necessarily stay on top. History tells us that in fact very few companies stay on top, especially in tech. However, I don't forsee a sudden downturn in the fortunes of apple or samsung very soon, in spite of all the new competition.

    Posted via CB10
    08-13-14 06:33 PM
  2. Heinz Katchup's Avatar
    More like emerging markets ascending.
    m1a1mg likes this.
    08-13-14 06:35 PM
  3. stealthbob's Avatar
    I think that we are all focused on evaluating companies base on units sold and on hardware sales. I am thinking more about as we evolve in the convergence of our daily interactions with our data and communications the actual hardware part will grow less important.

    For me the next wave of innovation is in the convergence of how we interact with all our communications. We fight over which form factor will be the ultimate survivor which to me is true folly. As long as I can pick up any device, regardless of form factor or OS and being able to sync with my personal data space and interact with it I really don't care what it looks like under the hood or what logo it has stuck on it.

    I think the article is leading into what we may be seeing moving forward and that is what has been constant throughout the historical tech path. Its the software and software solutions that make the margin and cash flow and ultimately carve the future.

    Personally I am very excited about BB Blend....I see this as the future and honestly I don't really care who manufactured the hardware that I use it on as long as it feels good to use and makes my life easier.
    08-13-14 07:49 PM
  4. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    This is a trend that should worry all premium handset makers, especially BBRY where they have a really high cost structure comparatively. The race to bottom is very similar to that experienced by the PC markets. Apple has previous experience surviving and differentiating themselves thru design and a vivid ecosystem. What do others, especially BBRY, have to fight this trend? I think looking forward Chen's decision to focus most resources on the enterprise will definitely be validated. The handset with keyboard is a good differentiation for BBRY without too much competition.
    The decline of BlackBerry consumer's market and the refocus of the enterprise market might be the salvation after all. Not even Samsung and Apple can compete with the cheap made handsets churning out that's in demand in the world most populous countries like China, India and Indonesia.
    08-13-14 08:37 PM
  5. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    More like emerging markets ascending.
    US was one of the most ferocious consumers market in the world. In some extend it still is. However, the shift of labor to the developing country like China and other countries is taking it's toll. The middle class is slowly disappearing and the economy is feeling the impact. It's no coincidence that Walmart and dollar stores are sprouting everywhere. The middle class spending habit has shifted to affordable products. People can only afford cheap imitation products from the very countries their job lost to. And the government has to borrow money to sustain the economy. When Chinese and Indians achieve economic viability, the US will be the third world country.
    08-13-14 08:54 PM
  6. jafrul's Avatar
    Their market share is dropping to the like of OPPO, Lenovo and other cheap but high spec China phones.

    Posted from my Astro on Z30STA100-2/10.2.2.1531
    08-13-14 09:04 PM
  7. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    Another Apple is doomed article. (Did they really expect Apple share price to drop after releasing that article ?)

    Yep, Apple is losing market share, but they continue break their sales records.

    Comparing market share of Apple (one manufacture), to Android (hundreds of manufactures), really can't be done. Compare the sales of individual phones. Also look at profitability.

    Large screened iPhone announcement next month. Expect record sales and record profits, but market share will drop. Drop to the combined numbers of companies selling not so profitable devices.
    08-13-14 11:39 PM
  8. aha's Avatar
    Another Apple is doomed article. (Did they really expect Apple share price to drop after releasing that article ?)

    Yep, Apple is losing market share, but they continue break their sales records.

    Comparing market share of Apple (one manufacture), to Android (hundreds of manufactures), really can't be done. Compare the sales of individual phones. Also look at profitability.

    Large screened iPhone announcement next month. Expect record sales and record profits, but market share will drop. Drop to the combined numbers of companies selling not so profitable devices.
    The ups and downs in stock price reflects how investors/speculators view the future rate of return of a company, not how well it is now or it was before.

    If Apple makes the same amount of money this year than last year with no growth, it doesn't matter how much money it is, there will be no reason for existing stock holders to increase their positions, and the money at sideline will not see it as an opportunity to buy in Apple stock to become new stock holders. If nobody is buying their stock, the stock price will not go up. If it doesn't go up, it either go flat or down.
    08-14-14 01:30 AM
  9. Heinz Katchup's Avatar
    US was one of the most ferocious consumers market in the world. In some extend it still is. However, the shift of labor to the developing country like China and other countries is taking it's toll. The middle class is slowly disappearing and the economy is feeling the impact. It's no coincidence that Walmart and dollar stores are sprouting everywhere. The middle class spending habit has shifted to affordable products. People can only afford cheap imitation products from the very countries their job lost to. And the government has to borrow money to sustain the economy. When Chinese and Indians achieve economic viability, the US will be the third world country.
    Well doesn't that just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    Posted with X10 via CB10
    08-14-14 01:57 AM
  10. Raestloz's Avatar
    OK but this article isn't good for BlackBerry because BlackBerry cannot compete with Apple or Samsung on cost or ecosystem currently, so they will be in even deeper trouble against these low end players threatening the big guys. Eventually the high end smartphone market will hit saturation, and at that point Apple will be in trouble, at least from a stock perspective. Even though they will still be making money hand over fist, the market will demand that they grow increase profits somehow. When they can't get the growth the market wants, stock will tank.

    Posted with a BlackBerry Z10
    The problem with your concern is that all these new devices are stock Android. OnePlus One had a deal with CyanogenMod, but just about every minimax Android devices run stock with custom launcher.

    Very few actually bother to add functionalities or new APIs such as Samsung.

    To BlackBerry, these cheap devices can very well be made by Samsung and it will not make much difference: they're Android and far cheaper than BlackBerry could ever sell their devices in.

    They're also most definitely not up for security certifications, so regulated world will not be shaken by these floods of cheap Androids.

    For some reason, I feel that John Chen predicted this thing. Smart *******

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.3247
    08-14-14 02:56 AM
  11. arlene_t's Avatar
    In market share Samsung Android will win just like Windows for PC.
    Apple are marketed as premium products whether droid and window fans like it or not. People pay for their products no matter double the market price than the rivals. That's what Apple have and other companies do not have. it's the experience of that product that counts. Happy customers upgrades so they continue to sell even if spec wise they're not the best but user experience varies. Samsung has the best line up of android products. Yes they have boring looks as they all look the same but they have all sizes imaginable for a phone.




    via Q10
    08-14-14 05:12 AM
  12. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    The ups and downs in stock price reflects how investors/speculators view the future rate of return of a company, not how well it is now or it was before.

    If Apple makes the same amount of money this year than last year with no growth, it doesn't matter how much money it is, there will be no reason for existing stock holders to increase their positions, and the money at sideline will not see it as an opportunity to buy in Apple stock to become new stock holders. If nobody is buying their stock, the stock price will not go up. If it doesn't go up, it either go flat or down.
    But it does grow, even while losing market share. I sell 10 million devices this quarter, 12 million the next, and 15 the one after that, I have grown, even while losing market share. Meanwhile Ping Pang, takes market share, but because they are involved in a race to the bottom, they are not profitable.

    Apple stock is on its way up.

    Posted via CB10
    08-14-14 08:07 AM
  13. anon1727506's Avatar
    This is where I disagree, I feel that the hardware is on par at this time. Agreed about the ecosystem though, it may never fully meet the consumer needs like iOS can. That notwithstanding, it can be compensated by the fact that BES and other device agnostic MDM services like the coming Blend will be uniquely positioned to support the brand overall as a niche business.

    Blackberry does not have to beat out iOS and Android to be a profitable company, it just needs to find their segment and be the best at it.
    You may very well fell that....

    Doesn't change the fact that the Classic seems to be using the same two year old hardware as the Z10 and the Passport is clearly at least one generation behind. Never mind the "gimmick" stuff like scratch proof screens, water resistance, AC Wi-Fi, finger print readers with heart monitors, or an intelligent virtual assistant (I know they are working on it)..... BlackBerry's hardware gets the job done..... and that is as far as they go with it.

    And you clearly love what Blend is suppose to do.... and I agree it would great. But if it works like the file sharing capabilities of LINK with a BlackBerry, not sure how usable it will be. Need to see how well it works in real world situations.
    08-14-14 08:14 AM
  14. stealthbob's Avatar
    You may very well fell that....

    Doesn't change the fact that the Classic seems to be using the same two year old hardware as the Z10 and the Passport is clearly at least one generation behind. Never mind the "gimmick" stuff like scratch proof screens, water resistance, AC Wi-Fi, finger print readers with heart monitors, or an intelligent virtual assistant (I know they are working on it)..... BlackBerry's hardware gets the job done..... and that is as far as they go with it.

    And you clearly love what Blend is suppose to do.... and I agree it would great. But if it works like the file sharing capabilities of LINK with a BlackBerry, not sure how usable it will be. Need to see how well it works in real world situations.
    How can you say the Passport is a full gen behind when it just may innovate the way a physical keyboard works? This really could be 'Next Gen" type stuff.... 12mp camera, 3gb Ram, new CPU/GPU. Sure it doesn't match perfectly to other top end devices but it sure is on par to where most other devices are at.

    I think you are on point about the gimmicky stuff that attracts silly attention like something shiny to a baby. You also make the point about "it gets the job done"...am I missing something, that kinda puts it on par with most other devices right? Yea it may lack some of the shiny gimmick bits and not be the leader in the specs race but at its core it does anything other devices do and frankly does it well.

    Another point I will agree on is about Balance...if it is like Link then no thanks. That notwithstanding though, that is like comparing BB10 to OS7...in hindsight OS7 on my Torch was a turd compared to BB10 on a Z10. If they can execute Balance and deliver on its potential it can be a game changer, I see it on every computer in my org and many others.

    Hardware like phones, PC's, Tablets, Cars, TV's are all just spokes to the main hub of our virtual world where our data and communications are held, own the hub and you own the whole wheel.
    08-14-14 11:05 AM
  15. Raestloz's Avatar
    I'm confused. What makes Samsung S5 "next gen"? You don't see stuff like Watch Dogs which minimum system requirement is 6GB of RAM on 64bit Windows 7 with GTX 580 thanks entirely to shoddy port, there is nothing in mobile space that pushes the need of faster processor, especially because upgrading requires you to buy an entirely new phone.

    It's octa-core (two quads),yes, it has a lot of RAM, it has 1080p, it has water resistance. But I don't see how it enables you to do what Samsung Galaxy S3 couldn't do, primarily because each app has ridiculous limitation in RAM.

    Which part of it defines "next gen"? Is it the 1080p? Is it the quad core? Is it the water resistance?

    You can hear "next gen console", but I have never heard of "next gen pc", so I don't know how to define "next gen smartphone", because it's a mini PC

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.3247
    08-14-14 09:59 PM
  16. Carrtman's Avatar
    Nothing about it is next gen hence why Samsung is having trouble in their home country. Android the current best smartphone is the g3 cat6 ( QHD, snapdragon 805, laser focused camera).
    The need for better specs comes with higher resolutions, more and better multitasking
    08-14-14 10:13 PM
  17. Raestloz's Avatar
    Nothing about it is next gen hence why Samsung is having trouble in their home country. Android the current best smartphone is the g3 cat6 ( QHD, snapdragon 805, laser focused camera).
    The need for better specs comes with higher resolutions, more and better multitasking
    Higher resolution demands bigger display to properly show its virtue, but one can only go so far without going to the phablet territory and end up applying a Phone app to Tablet, removing the phone part altogether.

    My monitor is a 17" 1280x1024, which by all accounts is indeed HD ready (720p), and it does not have the impact a 720p has on 32" TV

    Unless there comes an app that indeed requires processing power, such as 3D modelling or rendering, I don't see the need to go better and better, it's battery wasted

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.3247
    08-14-14 10:19 PM
  18. early2bed's Avatar
    This highlights a significant difference between the major platforms in terms of who is competing with the lower price phones.

    Apple, Samsung Headed Into Decline Globally: Fitch-screen-shot-2014-08-14-9.41.56-pm.png
    08-14-14 10:43 PM
  19. lovedaazn's Avatar
    I also understood Samsung is the world's leading manufacturer, but Apple sells the most smartphones with the iPhone.
    I don't believe that is true. I believe it is true in North America but not on a global scale.

    A few months ago apple tried entering the Chinese market. Their phones were not compatible, so they wanted to manufacture new chips in order to go underway. However now, I'm pretty sure China has banned apple and a few more brands due to their Chinese national security.

    My point is that android is still the dominant platform. I also see this article's prediction as being a very good hunch.

    Posted via CB10
    08-17-14 02:28 PM
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