10-31-14 08:02 PM
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  1. EchoTango's Avatar
    Apple has one Achilles heel; they always want more money to do similar functions than anyone else. Apple Pay is no different; they have secured Financial Intuition agreements to enable this and in typical Apple style, will claim they invented it all. The sad thing is most Apple users are happy to pay a premium for anything Apple as it's the degree of customer control they enjoy.

    For years, Apple has refused to agree on industry payment standards as they quietly played with various dongles and software in order to protect their closed ecosystem. I find it quite humorous that NFC was their final choice after all there prevarications and outright refusals over the years against this very technology. I suppose they were finally able to mesh open NFC technology with proprietary software to achieve their own goals. You can't really totally blame Apple, as so many who simply line up and accept, with the irrational belief that their best interests are being protected.

    Retrospectively, I think future generations will look back and see Apple's overwhelming Orwellian tendencies, but today we only see the carefully crafted image.
    10-23-14 09:31 AM
  2. early2bed's Avatar
    Well, it's not as if any of the other smartphone platforms have been able to get anything going with US consumers in this area. Were you waiting for the carriers to do it?
    10-23-14 09:40 AM
  3. will308's Avatar
    They've already made the deals with the banks.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    did you know that apple also invented the world and everything that is in the world .................................hearing about apple is like eating the same thing every single day sooooooooooooooooo boring
    10-23-14 03:58 PM
  4. asherN's Avatar
    Already happens in Canada and the EU. American's card can and are being refused by merchants who don't want to take the risk and be liable for fraud since the US card doesn't support EMV chip and pin.
    Then those merchants don't understand the liability shift. They are only liable if they process a transaction with the mag stripe when chip-and-pin is available. A US card does not make them liable as it cannot be processed with EMV.
    app_Developer likes this.
    10-24-14 02:17 PM
  5. dwarren63's Avatar
    I believe at one point Apple said it's cloud was secure as well. Apple doesn't do anything without making you pay for it.

    Posted via CB10
    10-25-14 08:45 AM
  6. early2bed's Avatar
    I believe at one point Apple said it's cloud was secure as well. Apple doesn't do anything without making you pay for it.
    I guess that's true in a zero-sum-game world where no value is created by technological improvements. However, the banks are signing on to tokenized transactions because they know it will reduce a major cost to them - credit card fraud. I don't think they are foolish about security. Their problem is that the retailers can't seem to hang on to the credit card info.

    The only people who think that this isn't a good thing are other smartphone platforms and retailers who are supporting a competitive system of tokenized transactions.
    10-25-14 09:53 AM
  7. early2bed's Avatar
    Well, it looks like some retailers are shutting down their NFC readers to shut out Apple Pay (and any other NFC like Google Wallet) in favor of the not-yet-ready CurrentC which is a payment system that shuts out credit cards. It's not a system that I'm interested in using because there are some definite consumer protection benefits offered by credit cards not to mention the rewards offered by cards like Discover and Chase Amazon Rewards.

    it's interesting that Apple has aligned itself with the major banks with the retailers on the other side. I guess it will depend on what the consumer decide to do. Retailers will offer loyalty rewards to use their system. It looks like the days of going wherever you want as a consumer without regard to your payment method may be over for now.

    Any ideas about where Google will line up? Will they partner with the banks with their version of Apple Pay or will they join CurrentC and skip the credit cards?

    Retailers are disabling NFC readers to shut out Apple Pay | The Verge
    Last edited by early2bed; 10-25-14 at 01:32 PM.
    10-25-14 12:49 PM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    I believe at one point Apple said it's cloud was secure as well. Apple doesn't do anything without making you pay for it.
    How many banks and payment networks certified Apple's iCloud?


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    mornhavon and mmcfly23 like this.
    10-25-14 12:54 PM
  9. blackmoe's Avatar
    Well, it looks like some retailers are shutting down their NFC readers to shut out Apple Pay (and any other NFC like Google Wallet) in favor of the not-yet-ready CurrentC which is a payment system that shuts out credit cards. It's not a system that I'm interested in using because there are some definite consumer protection benefits offered by credit cards not to mention the rewards offered by cards like Discover and Chase Amazon Rewards.

    it's interesting that Apple has aligned itself with the major banks with the retailers on the other side. I guess it will depend on what the consumer decide to do. Retailers will offer loyalty rewards to use their system. It looks like the days of going wherever you want as a consumer without regard to your payment method may be over for now.

    Any ideas about where Google will line up? Will they partner with the banks with their version of Apple Pay or will they join CurrentC and skip the credit cards?

    Retailers are disabling NFC readers to shut out Apple Pay | The Verge
    This is really messed up and the consumer is the loser in this battle for mobile payment systems. I will purposely use my credit card instead of cash or debit at any retailor using CurrentC just to put a hit on their fees that they will have to pay. When mobile payments becomes a battleground for dollars instead of consumer convenience I will do my best not to reward the participants.
    10-25-14 03:28 PM
  10. INFOmuzRON's Avatar
    BlackBerry is just waiting for apple pay to fail tremendously. Apple pay will be hackable.

    Posted via CB10
    10-26-14 09:35 AM
  11. birdman_38's Avatar
    They've already made the deals with the banks.
    And numerous major retailers in the United States.
    10-26-14 10:45 AM
  12. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    Well, it looks like some retailers are shutting down their NFC readers to shut out Apple Pay (and any other NFC like Google Wallet) in favor of the not-yet-ready CurrentC which is a payment system that shuts out credit cards. It's not a system that I'm interested in using because there are some definite consumer protection benefits offered by credit cards not to mention the rewards offered by cards like Discover and Chase Amazon Rewards.

    it's interesting that Apple has aligned itself with the major banks with the retailers on the other side. I guess it will depend on what the consumer decide to do. Retailers will offer loyalty rewards to use their system. It looks like the days of going wherever you want as a consumer without regard to your payment method may be over for now.

    Any ideas about where Google will line up? Will they partner with the banks with their version of Apple Pay or will they join CurrentC and skip the credit cards?

    Retailers are disabling NFC readers to shut out Apple Pay | The Verge
    I would prefer they just agree on one system that can be used across all platforms. This is going to set any standardized adoption back. Sigh.

    I do like the protection offered by credit card companies, however many others only see the money that the credit card companies rake in and will be happy to give them the shaft.



    Posted via CB10
    10-26-14 10:55 AM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar
    I would prefer they just agree on one system that can be used across all platforms. This is going to set any standardized adoption back. Sigh.

    I do like the protection offered by credit card companies, however many others only see the money that the credit card companies rake in and will be happy to give them the shaft.
    Well, that's the issue. It's hard to agree on one system because everyone has different interests.

    Consumers want something easy to use that gives them the most choice in how they choose to pay. They would also like something safe so they don't have to check the news each day to see if they need to change their account numbers again.

    Merchants want to be sure they are getting paid, but also want to pay as little in fees as they can. They also want to know everything they possibly can about their customers so they can market better to them.

    Banks and credit card companies want to continue to make money and minimize risk. Banks also want to know who is buying what, when, and where and would rather not share that data with 3rd parties.

    Telephone companies want to stay in the process and somehow make money from all this.

    Apple wants people to buy more iPhones and iPads and keep people in their walled garden. They also want the system to be as fast and easy to use as possible (no special SIMs or QR codes, etc)

    Google just wants to know who is buying what, when, and where so they can sell more ads for more money.




    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    blackmoe, TGR1 and mornhavon like this.
    10-26-14 11:10 AM
  14. tchocky77's Avatar
    They've turned off ALL NFC to spite Apple Pay. They'd have done the same thing if Google Wallet had ever gotten any traction. They lose out on all the data they're gathering on their customers because Apple Pay deprives them of it. (In fact, removes it from the equation entirely.) CurrentC is going to use, get this,....QR codes!!! Hilarious!

    All this tells us is that people are using apple pay in meaningful numbers. As this story gains traction, all those new iphone-carrying consumers put there will have their voice heard, retailers will turn their NFC back on, and currentc will be strangled in the cradle.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Last edited by tchocky77; 10-26-14 at 09:32 PM.
    10-26-14 09:04 PM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar

    All this tells us is that people are using apple pay in meaningful numbers. As this story gains traction, all those new iphone-carrying consumers put there will have their voice heard, retailers will turn their NFC back on, and currentc will be strangled in the cradled.
    Transaction volume has been everything we anticipated plus some. It already totally eclipses Google Wallet and this is with two phones that have only been available for a few weeks.

    We'll see how it is in Nov and Dec and if the same customers continue to use it. But you are right that the MCX team know the Apple Pay volume and are acting quickly to try to stop it before it kills CurrentC.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    10-26-14 09:14 PM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    These reviews of CurrentC are funny. Read the last one. Apple Pay will hurt BBRY [opinion]-imageuploadedbytapatalk1414379275.279733.jpg


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    10-26-14 10:07 PM
  17. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    These reviews of CurrentC are funny. Read the last one. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1414379275.279733.jpg 
Views:	331 
Size:	159.6 KB 
ID:	309681


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the laugh.
    That's some ROTFL material :-D

    ? ? ? Passposted via CB Chen ? ? ?
    10-27-14 01:38 AM
  18. JoseMercedes's Avatar
    Apple isn't secure

    Stl-1 10.3.1.938
    10-27-14 01:39 AM
  19. BanffMoose's Avatar
    [Merchants] also want to know everything they possibly can about their customers so they can market better to them.
    But merchants already know or can data mine their sales databases to know more about their customers. Payment method doesn't matter. Google Target predicts pregnant teen.

    What we need confirmation of is that financial or any other institutions don't get this information either now or once we switch to chip/pin, chip/signature, Apple Pay, Google Wallet or any other new form of payment scheme. As I understand the current system, credit card and banks only know that we bought something at these merchants. They don't know what we bought. Or do they?
    10-27-14 02:16 AM
  20. filanto's Avatar
    10-27-14 04:07 AM
  21. app_Developer's Avatar
    But merchants already know or can data mine their sales databases to know more about their customers. Payment method doesn't matter. Google Target predicts pregnant teen.
    Under MC and Visa. If you buy something at CVS, the folks at Walmart don't see that. With MCX, the consortium sees every purchase you make at all 30+ partners. That is a huge difference.

    And of course with CurrentC MCX will have direct access to your checking or savings account.

    What we need confirmation of is that financial or any other institutions don't get this information either now or once we switch to chip/pin, chip/signature, Apple Pay, Google Wallet or any other new form of payment scheme. As I understand the current system, credit card and banks only know that we bought something at these merchants. They don't know what we bought. Or do they?
    Well your bank will always know that you made a purchase at X merchant for Y dollars on D date. It's impossible to avoid that. The question is do you want others to know as well and be able to aggregate that across your accounts.

    if you make 2 purchases with Chase and 3 with Amex, no one sees all 5. And in most cases neither bank sees what you bought (SKU level data)

    Unless you use Google wallet. If you use Google Wallet to make 2 purchase with Chase and 3 with another card, then Google does see all 5 transactions through their ghost card. This is not the case with Apple Pay.

    It's the aggregation across multiple cards and/or multiple merchants that is the danger because it allows you to create a much more complete picture of what a user is doing. It's that aggregation of SKU level data across merchants or trans data across cards that is of unprecedented value for MCX or Google because it allows that more complete picture of everything the customer does.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    BanffMoose and Eumaeus like this.
    10-27-14 05:21 AM
  22. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The US has to catch up to the rest of the world with credit/debit card security.

    While the rest of the world is using EMV with chip and pin, the US is a mess when it comes to this. In Oct 2015, EMV will be introduced but chip and signature. Really folks? VISA and Mastercard just want chip and sign so they can continue to charge high card processing fees. Chip and Pin allows for third party card processing to have competition. Then of course in Canada, there is Interac which is a debit card processor with is non-profit. Instead of 2.5% of the transaction of the fee, it is 10 cents to actually cover the cost of the transaction.

    This mess with Apple Pay, Google Wallet and CurrentC just shows how much of a mess it is. The rest of the world has figured it out, why can't the US?
    10-27-14 06:37 AM
  23. anon1727506's Avatar
    The US has to catch up to the rest of the world with credit/debit card security.

    While the rest of the world is using EMV with chip and pin, the US is a mess when it comes to this. In Oct 2015, EMV will be introduced but chip and signature. Really folks? VISA and Mastercard just want chip and sign so they can continue to charge high card processing fees. Chip and Pin allows for third party card processing to have competition. Then of course in Canada, there is Interac which is a debit card processor with is non-profit. Instead of 2.5% of the transaction of the fee, it is 10 cents to actually cover the cost of the transaction.

    This mess with Apple Pay, Google Wallet and CurrentC just shows how much of a mess it is. The rest of the world has figured it out, why can't the US?
    Because we are talking about a LOT of money when it comes to transactions in the US using these type systems. And so you are going to have a big fight between Credit Card companies that want to be involved, Banks and merchants... everyone wants a pieces of the pie. Never mind the lobbyist, lawyers and politicians that these groups are using to get laws or rule made that benefit them or cripple a competitor...

    As I understood other than being tied to already existing credit card accounts, most mobile payment systems in the world were very regional.... Which is why the Credit Card companies believe they need to be involved as they already deal with moving money from county to county.
    10-27-14 11:19 AM
  24. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    In Canada, most card transactions are handled by the banks using debit cards that use chip and pin technology. The process is handled by a non-profit entity that was created by the banks. The debit cards are connected by the bank issuer and connected to your bank account(s). The secure chip and the use of a pin means that the transaction is encrypted from the card reader to the bank. No cards are swiped.

    Swiping cards and not using chip and pin technology is foolish.

    Mobile payments are no good for large transactions so you are going to have to pull out your credit card sometimes, so mobile app payment isn't any more efficient than chip and pin.
    10-27-14 11:30 AM
  25. early2bed's Avatar
    Mobile payments are no good for large transactions so you are going to have to pull out your credit card sometimes, so mobile app payment isn't any more efficient than chip and pin.
    Isn't this simply because current mobile app payments aren't as secure as credit cards? Apple Pay is more secure then credit cards.
    10-27-14 11:55 AM
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