10-31-14 08:02 PM
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  1. TheoRadu's Avatar
    It's launching the US first, but it is definitely heading worldwide soon.

    Every bank pays Google something far more valuable than money, we pay with the transaction stream. Apple is a much cheaper date.
    Not so sure it is heading worldwide. As others have said, there is no need for it outside the US. We all use chip-and-pin cards here (many of them NFC enabled) and banks have less fraud to deal with. Most of them also have their own apps which offer some sort of mobile payment method.
    The other thing worth mentioning is the declining market share of iOS outside the US, it's somewhere between 10 and 15% in Europe now, compared to about 40% in the US.
    And lastly, we have a more strictly regulated financial market and more robust data protection laws here which means banks are usually less keen on opening up their systems to a third party. I know Apple doesn't get the transaction details, but an exchange of data between the phone and the bank's systems must happen.
    09-18-14 03:52 PM
  2. Vicki Kenny's Avatar
    It only works for US customers. SO it can track the purchases by American's only. It cannot be downloaded in Canada or the rest of the world. Are you disputing what Google says about Google Wallet?
    That's not true. I live in the UK and I use Google Wallet extensively to pay for online shopping and also media purchases on Google Play & Samsung Entertainment on my TV & desktop.
    app_Developer likes this.
    09-18-14 05:26 PM
  3. THBW's Avatar
    You should research Apple Pay - there's a pretty good thread on it right here in CB. Apple's implementation is absolutely new and better than what's out there. Not joking. It's more secure with tokenization, linked directly to your bank without sending info to google or any other third party, fingerprint authentication, no need for a special SIM card from your carrier... Apple did it right this time.
    This is not new in the least. Using NFC technology to access financial assets has been done for years. It is platform agnostic and no financial company would be stupid enough to lock themselves into Apple's walled garden approach. It's nice to see Apple finally join the crowd. Better late than never seems to be Apple's new motto.

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-14 05:33 PM
  4. lovedaazn's Avatar
    Apple unveiled its Apple Pay service at a recent September 9 product launch event in Cupertino.
    Apple Pay will be another affront to turnaround efforts at BlackBerry. BlackBerry will largely remain shut out of the payment market.
    Conservative investors should avoid buying into BlackBerry stock. The company may rack up losses through fiscal 2015........who believes that this will really hurt, and or damage BlackBerry

    Posted via CB10
    I don't believe it will. I don't think enough people will adopt the Apple pay. Without a high adoption rate, Apple is just dumping money into something that won't be significant.

    As for the losses through fiscal 2015, you really give no evidence or reason as to why they would rack up losses. Opinion may be opinion, but please don't speak out of your the wrong end, if you know what I mean.
    09-18-14 06:38 PM
  5. LoganSix's Avatar
    I can't imagine that discount lasting very long or the banks would have to lower the fee for cards as well.

    Posted from my Z30 using CB10
    09-18-14 07:10 PM
  6. TGR1's Avatar
    This is not new in the least. Using NFC technology to access financial assets has been done for years. It is platform agnostic and no financial company would be stupid enough to lock themselves into Apple's walled garden approach. It's nice to see Apple finally join the crowd. Better late than never seems to be Apple's new motto.

    Posted via CB10
    Whoosh...

    People absolutely have to stop fixating on *NFC*. That is incidental. It's what is on the phone hardware and what goes on behind the NFC interface that is relevant.
    09-18-14 07:15 PM
  7. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    That's not true. I live in the UK and I use Google Wallet extensively to pay for online shopping and also media purchases on Google Play & Samsung Entertainment on my TV & desktop.
    Online yes. But are you disputing what Google wrote in it's own Google Wallet FAQ?
    09-18-14 07:16 PM
  8. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Whoosh...

    People absolutely have to stop fixating on *NFC*. That is incidental. It's what is on the phone hardware and what goes on behind the NFC interface that is relevant.
    Exactly.

    Don't hold your breath though.
    TGR1, blackmoe, JeepBB and 1 others like this.
    09-18-14 07:17 PM
  9. TGR1's Avatar
    I don't think BBRY will be hurt, nor will be particularly helped. It's not a special feature to them.

    However, if this helps the banks start replacing old stripe cards, stressing the use of pin and chip and NFC, and makes Americans more aware, then I do believe BBRY's customers will benefit by being able to use their phones at many more locations.
    09-18-14 07:19 PM
  10. tjseaman's Avatar
    NFC technology is just one element of Apple Pay. Blackberry has nothing even close to what Apple has created with Apple Pay. In fact, no one does. I can understand a certain amount of hate on Apple, but they have to get some props for Apple Pay, as they were the first to do NFC payments right.
    LMAO....too funny!!!

    Posted via CB10 - Z10 'Powered by BlackBerry'
    09-18-14 08:20 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    Online yes. But are you disputing what Google wrote in it's own Google Wallet FAQ?
    Google Wallet and Apple Pay are payment systems. They both work in different modes. But whether it's an online payment or a NFC tap, or other modes in the future, the transaction is processed through the same network in each respective case. You and others here are equating Google Wallet and Apple Pay with NFC, and that's a fundamental misunderstanding. GW and AP can use NFC, but neither requires NFC and neither is NFC.

    The relevant quote from the FAQ which you referenced yourself(!) is:

    "In the United States, you can use Google Wallet to shop in stores, send money, and to make online purchases on Google Play or other online merchants. Outside of the United States, you can shop online using Google Wallet to make purchases on Google Play in over 125 countries."

    "Outside of the United States" means, in this case, countries other than the United States. "You can shop online" means the user can shop online. "Over 125 countries" means that there are over 125 countries where you can have a Google Wallet account.

    The original point you were arguing is whether Google sees the transaction. They have to see the transaction before they even know to which funding PAN they should charge that transaction. That is fundamentally how Wallet works. There is no magic wallet for Canada that is different from the Wallet the rest of the planet uses.

    We issue cards in Canada. We have Google Wallet customers in more than 50 countries (I just checked). You're making a claim that there is some magic routing for this one small country, of all the countries in the world, that is totally different from all the other countries in which Google Wallet operates.
    early2bed and JeepBB like this.
    09-18-14 08:40 PM
  12. Bluenoser63's Avatar

    Google Wallet and Apple Pay are payment systems. They both work in different modes. But whether it's an online payment or a NFC tap, or other modes in the future, the transaction is processed through the same network in each respective case. You and others here are equating Google Wallet and Apple Pay with NFC, and that's a fundamental misunderstanding. GW and AP can use NFC, but neither requires NFC and neither is NFC.

    The relevant quote from the FAQ which you referenced yourself(!) is:

    "In the United States, you can use Google Wallet to shop in stores, send money, and to make online purchases on Google Play or other online merchants. Outside of the United States, you can shop online using Google Wallet to make purchases on Google Play in over 125 countries."

    "Outside of the United States" means, in this case, countries other than the United States. "You can shop online" means the user can shop online. "Over 125 countries" means that there are over 125 countries where you can have a Google Wallet account.

    The original point you were arguing is whether Google sees the transaction. They have to see the transaction before they even know to which funding PAN they should charge that transaction. That is fundamentally how Wallet works. There is no magic wallet for Canada that is different from the Wallet the rest of the planet uses.

    We issue cards in Canada. We have Google Wallet customers in more than 50 countries (I just checked). You're making a claim that there is some magic routing for this one small country, of all the countries in the world, that is totally different from all the other countries in which Google Wallet operates.
    Do you not get that online payment systems are different than brick and mortar payment systems? Love to see you go to get gas online or anything else that requires NFC. Online I can just call over the phone and buy something, not much technology in that. When Apply Pay and Google Wallet can buy products in the store in countries other than the US, get back to us. Google cannot see a single in person transaction in any country other than the US. You are trying to back pedal on a complete payment solution. Like I said, Apple Pay and Google Wallet will never have a full payment system in any country other than the US. With an online system only, which accounts for only 15% of the total sales in the US, you are missing 85% of all transactions. Good luck on that Apple and Google.
    09-18-14 09:00 PM
  13. gruv4u's Avatar
    Apple unveiled its Apple Pay service at a recent September 9 product launch event in Cupertino.
    Apple Pay will be another affront to turnaround efforts at BlackBerry. BlackBerry will largely remain shut out of the payment market.
    Conservative investors should avoid buying into BlackBerry stock. The company may rack up losses through fiscal 2015........who believes that this will really hurt, and or damage BlackBerry

    Posted via CB10
    You make a really relevant point OP. However, jasonvan9 has trumped your point. BlackBerry is pursuing so many other endeavors that Apple isn't (it would seem). John Chen is making long term moves that will manifest themselves in an overnight manner. At least it will seem that way.

    Z10 (STL 100-3) Superphone with vitamin 10.2.1.3014
    09-18-14 09:12 PM
  14. robert_in_la's Avatar
    Wait for it.. The liability shift is just about here. It already happened in the EU. It is dependent on the merchant discretion if they want to accept the risk or not. When the full liability happens, you may find more of an issue..
    Sorry don't agree. When I have a project flying I will spend upwards of a few hundred thousand dollars in a month and I can tell you right now not a single merchant, vendor or bank cared if my CC had a chip - they wanted my business and thus money. Anyway we'll just agree to disagree.
    09-18-14 09:43 PM
  15. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    I don't think BBRY will be hurt, nor will be particularly helped. It's not a special feature to them.

    However, if this helps the banks start replacing old stripe cards, stressing the use of pin and chip and NFC, and makes Americans more aware, then I do believe BBRY's customers will benefit by being able to use their phones at many more locations.
    BB10 as well as Android may be hurt if consumers want to use mobile phone NFC payment but merchants only accept Apple Pay.

    Popularity of Apple Pay does not necessarily follow the support of alternative payment systems, especially from an OS with <1% marketshare. Merchants may not want to deal with the administrative costs to support BBM Money.

    If an NFC payment system is (widely) available for Apple and not BBRY or Android, that is one more incentive for consumers to pick Apple.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-18-14 10:00 PM
  16. Mike3110's Avatar
    So TD has an app that allows you to connect your card to your phone. I don't use it since I already go over board on spending with my tap Visa.

    It'll be a big thing, but that's Apple. They always do good.

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-14 10:07 PM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Sorry don't agree. When I have a project flying I will spend upwards of a few hundred thousand dollars in a month and I can tell you right now not a single merchant, vendor or bank cared if my CC had a chip - they wanted my business and thus money. Anyway we'll just agree to disagree.
    How did the ABM's work for you? Did you swipe your car to get gas at a station? Did you swipe your card anywhere?
    09-18-14 10:12 PM
  18. MmmHmm's Avatar
    You don't know as much as you think. Google Wallet is not in Canada. Can't be used. Like I said before, Apple Pay might only be available in the US. Google Wallet is a US system only. So that transaction stream in the rest of the world you talked about doesn't exist. All you have to do is go to

    FAQ ? Google Wallet

    And check out what counties that Google Wallet is in. Just one. The US. Do people no check anything before they post? Apple Pay will be like Google Wallet and only be available in the US because as I said, banking rules and systems in other countries will not allow this type of system without major changes to the rules.

    The banks in Canada have their own apps and don't need to give a single penny to Apple to process NFC transactions. They just won't support it unless Apple pays them.
    Do the carriers in Canada not get anything for supporting NFC payments? I don't know the answer to that question. I guess I'd be surprised if the carriers were only getting profits on the hardware sales of secure SIMS with no follow up benefit. Assuming the carriers get some money for being a necessary cog in the process of NFC payments now, why wouldn't the Canadian banks be willing to negotiate with Apple for a similar deal, wherein the carriers are cut out? Apple users are widely recognized as a demographic that spends more money than average and you'd think the banks would want to enable Apple customers to make purchases with their iPhones.

    My understanding is that Google Wallet needs carrier support but Apple pay doesn't.

    I guess time will tell if Apple pay is successful in the US and if it spreads to other countries. Until then, posters are just spinning their wheels. I suspect it will have some measure of success, but I could be wrong. These Apple pay threads were interesting at first but they are becoming pretty repetitive now. I think I'll move on. Maybe to a thread that actually discusses Blackberry.
    Last edited by MmmHmm; 09-19-14 at 07:16 AM.
    09-19-14 06:17 AM
  19. dpeters11's Avatar
    It is clear that you don't read even when I have given you a link. The Home Depot hack was caused by using XP for the POS.
    Their problem wasn't that they were using XPe, it was that they weren't current on patches. They have support until December 2016.
    09-19-14 07:52 AM
  20. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    How much more can Apple hurt BlackBerry at this point? Not like the company has innovated a security system that is far superior than BlackBerry. If they really want to hurt BlackBerry the easiest way is to spend $20 Billion or less to buy BlackBerry and dissolve it.
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    09-19-14 10:22 AM
  21. dustmalik's Avatar
    How much more can Apple hurt BlackBerry at this point? Not like the company has innovated a security system that is far superior than BlackBerry. If they really want to hurt BlackBerry the easiest way is to spend $20 Billion or less to buy BlackBerry and dissolve it.
    Lol... as it stands, they don't even have to spend that much.

    Posted via CB10 using my Gorgeous Z30
    09-19-14 10:47 AM
  22. lift's Avatar
    If they really want to hurt BlackBerry the easiest way is to spend $20 Billion or less to buy BlackBerry and dissolve it.
    Hey don't give them any ideas!
    09-19-14 10:50 AM
  23. lift's Avatar
    Lol... as it stands, they don't even have to spend that much.
    That's not funny.
    09-19-14 10:50 AM
  24. blackmoe's Avatar
    Their problem wasn't that they were using XPe, it was that they weren't current on patches. They have support until December 2016.
    It doesn't even matter how they got in and that was just a deflection to the discussion. It's what they were able to steal once they were in and a tokenized exchange at purchase time does not leave any credit card data in the stores database or terminals
    mornhavon and Eumaeus like this.
    09-19-14 11:03 AM
  25. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Lol... as it stands, they don't even have to spend that much.

    Posted via CB10 using my Gorgeous Z30
    BBRY's market capitalization is currently <$6 billion. Chump change for Apple, which spent $3 billion on Beats.

    Of course, BBRY was worth much less than that at its lows a year or so ago and the stock market is on another bull run so it's not a great time to buy it now.
    lift, JeepBB and techvisor like this.
    09-19-14 11:22 AM
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